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Posted: 12/23/2020 1:00:39 PM EST
I have a hodge podge of various m855 types since I had an ACOG on my sbr and figured 855 was the best I could get at the price point in bulk.

I have a few k of the Federal Lake City xm855, some winchester, PPU, and some PMC.

Which one should I settle on?

Each one has positives and negatives.

Winchester? Awful quality BUT I can get it cheaply and in bulk easily.

PPU? Serbian made, bit more consistent

PMC? Korean made, one negative (read somewhere else) is FPS drops at colder temp.

Federal MX855? I have the most of this. Appears to be middle of the pack. Shows up occasionally.

I wasn't able to get zero'd last time as I had a wandering zero...gotta tighten the nut on the optic mount down.

Thoughts?
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 1:32:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2020 1:34:13 PM EST by Eagle_19er]
M855 through an SBR?

Sure it'll make a hole, but it'll likely be an ice pick. I certainly wouldn't want to be shot by it but there are much better options for SD ammo out of an SBR.

That said there's nothing "wrong" with Federal and out of your choices I prefer that brand.

Edit: I see that you're in the Ukraine. Can you not get good bonded soft points there? Or something like the heavy SMK/TMK or even all copper bullets?  (I honestly don't know).
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 1:47:35 PM EST
M193 Would be my choice over M855 for bulk stocking.
But not by a huge margin.




Link Posted: 12/23/2020 1:51:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2020 6:20:20 PM EST by fadedsun]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:
M855 through an SBR?

Sure it'll make a hole, but it'll likely be an ice pick. I certainly wouldn't want to be shot by it but there are much better options for SD ammo out of an SBR.

That said there's nothing "wrong" with Federal and out of your choices I prefer that brand.
View Quote


It's a 12.5" SBR, so not terrible.

Most of the stuff is 5-6 years old, climate stored if that matters.

I'm in the USA, M855 is just way easier to get in bulk.
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 1:55:11 PM EST
M193
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 4:01:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 6:23:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2020 6:36:01 PM EST by fadedsun]


Hard to get anything else in bulk, really. I can't get 5k rounds of mk318 or Hornady 55 grain GMX for 46 cents a round.
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 7:32:26 PM EST
OP:

I'll be honest, I'm not sure of your question or if you have one........

Are you asking what order to shoot them in?
Are wanting to sell off the others after picking one to stay with?
Are you wanting to sell off what you have for the "chosen" load?  

Link Posted: 12/23/2020 7:58:58 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TGH456E:
OP:

I'll be honest, I'm not sure of your question or if you have one........

Are you asking what order to shoot them in?
Are wanting to sell off the others after picking one to stay with?
Are you wanting to sell off what you have for the "chosen" load?  

View Quote


Which of the 855 clones would be the best one to focus on?

Not selling anything. I get tons and tons of the winchester 855 in, I Just don't keep most of it.

Link Posted: 12/23/2020 10:14:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:


Which of the 855 clones would be the best one to focus on?

Not selling anything. I get tons and tons of the winchester 855 in, I Just don't keep most of it.

View Quote


Ok..... they all are... plus/minus.... the same so pick one ..... shoot it up.... then the next... so on ????

And if you aren't selling ..... where is the Winchester going?  

Don't over think this..... they are all essentially the same....  Pick one to shoot and be done with this.....
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 1:04:23 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:


It's a 12.5" SBR, so not terrible.

Most of the stuff is 5-6 years old, climate stored if that matters.

I'm in the USA, M855 is just way easier to get in bulk.
View Quote


Gotcha. My tests show that most of the M855 variants are in the 2850 fps range out of a 12.5” barrel. Not too shabby honestly and this actually makes 12.5” one of the best barrel lengths in my opinion.

I wouldn’t be too worried about any M855 at typical SD ranges out of that gun, with my preference still being Federal. LC made Winchester would be my 2nd choice.
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 9:06:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/24/2020 3:52:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/24/2020 3:52:58 PM EST by Reset9]
Sell all of your 855 and use the funds to replace it with 193.

This is what I did at the start of this whole panic and made out 350rds on top of what I sold as well as a couple of hundred bucks.
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 12:59:18 PM EST
Most of my stockpile is M855, with the majority being IMI and Federal; I also have some Winchester and PMC. I don't have any SBRs and prefer the 62 gr projectile as I have found it to have better external ballistic performance out of my rifles, despite the fact that M193 is en vogue on this site. I also have a couple optics (like an Elcan Specter) with BDCs calibrated for 62 gr bullets so to me it makes more sense than 55s. Both of my 5.56 rifles have 1:7 barrels.

I have not noticed a substantial difference in performance such as having to adjust my zero for one brand of M855 vice another, and have not had reliability issues with any of it. Winchester does seem to be the dirtiest, followed by PMC. IMI has the nicest brass if you reload.
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 6:07:39 PM EST
M855 isn't particularly accurate ammo to begin with so I wouldn't worry too much about the brand. You'll likely not be able to tell the difference anyway.
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 6:51:27 PM EST
Stockpile for what?  If it’s to shoot, just stockpile whatever you can get.  You don’t need one specific brand/kind.  However, when it’s normal times I only use Federal, Speer and Magtech ammo due to their manufacturing consistency (Except for hunting/target ammo, which is a different topic).  Right now with ammunition availability, there’s no legitimate reason to stockpile only one kind of ammo.  

If you HAD to stockpile any ammo, the ideal option would be to find out which ammo shoots most reliably and most accurately.  Then pick that one.  With FMJ ammunition, the variations of what happens when the bullet hits an intended target is marginal between loads.  I’ve seen both go through cars, both be stopped by cars, both punch huge chunks out of people, and both zip right through people.  FMJ (be it penetrator or non-penetrator) is consistently inconsistent and predictably unpredictable.  Such is why LE don’t use it for duty use.  
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 11:33:49 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AK-12:
Most of my stockpile is M855, with the majority being IMI and Federal; I also have some Winchester and PMC. I don't have any SBRs and prefer the 62 gr projectile as I have found it to have better external ballistic performance out of my rifles, despite the fact that M193 is en vogue on this site. I also have a couple optics (like an Elcan Specter) with BDCs calibrated for 62 gr bullets so to me it makes more sense than 55s. Both of my 5.56 rifles have 1:7 barrels.

I have not noticed a substantial difference in performance such as having to adjust my zero for one brand of M855 vice another, and have not had reliability issues with any of it. Winchester does seem to be the dirtiest, followed by PMC. IMI has the nicest brass if you reload.
View Quote


That was my big impetus for going to one load. No zero shift.
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 9:34:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2021 9:36:34 PM EST by Tier0ne0perator]
XM193 from federal would be my 1st choice,
IMi M855 would be choice #2 followed by
IMI M193 and Fed XM855

ETA: XM193 IS my bulk stock. I have sold off some quantity of IMI M193 but also keep a couple of cases of IMI M855
Link Posted: 2/4/2021 8:30:17 PM EST
22 Remington Jet
Link Posted: 2/4/2021 9:26:26 PM EST
Molon's testing showed IMI followed by PMC XTAC to the best and second best M855 ammos. IMI being hot and accurate, PMC XTAC being a touch under standard m855 velocities, which is made up for by it's accuracy.
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 8:07:54 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ColtSeavers:
Molon's testing showed IMI followed by PMC XTAC to the best and second best M855 ammos. IMI being hot and accurate, PMC XTAC being a touch under standard m855 velocities, which is made up for by it's accuracy.
View Quote

Molon's tests were a long time ago (10 years?) Pretty much every manufacturer has reduced the velocity of their 5.56 loads to appease American shooters who complained about them being too hot in their non-mil spec guns
Thanks guys
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 9:40:08 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mcantu:

Molon's tests were a long time ago (10 years?) Pretty much every manufacturer has reduced the velocity of their 5.56 loads to appease American shooters who complained about them being too hot in their non-mil spec guns
Thanks guys
View Quote


You are right there.
The need to have rifles function with crappy ComBloc steel case trash has led to non-mil spec gas ports.
Remember the old Norinco 55gr yellow box, or Q3131A?  That stuff was hot.
My 90's vintage American Eagle 223 55gr was even stout compared to some of todays 223 loads.
Had a guy with a beautiful 20" DMR style rifle ask me how hot I loaded the 77gr ammo I gave him to try.
I told him, I didn't load it, Black Hills did, MK262 Mod1.  "Didn't you look at the box?"
He said, "That was it, the real stuff?"  "Yes" I replied.  "Wow," he said,  "Smoking hot, accurate too.  Got any more?"
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 11:09:03 AM EST
Isn’t Black Hills 77 grain the cream of the crop when it comes to 5.56 ammunition?

Any how.... XM193 seems to be the most versatile. I have 1,100 rounds stocked piled with 1,000 of it federal and the rest is PMX xtac

Unfortunately that’s all I have but good news I just got a bonus today so I’m looking to buy another 1,000 rounds for a deal (lol yeah I know)
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 1:19:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2021 1:33:33 PM EST by edwin907]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hazmat401:
Isn’t Black Hills 77 grain the cream of the crop when it comes to 5.56 ammunition?

Any how.... XM193 seems to be the most versatile. I have 1,100 rounds stocked piled with 1,000 of it federal and the rest is PMX xtac

Unfortunately that’s all I have but good news I just got a bonus today so I’m looking to buy another 1,000 rounds for a deal (lol yeah I know)
View Quote



Keep buying, you will never be sorry you did.

I just gave my almost brother in law about 800 rounds of Federal XM193.
I still got the case of Q3131 with a $102.99 price tag on it.
Loaded my brother up with some too.
This shit ain't never going to go out of style.


And one more thing.
How come we don't have a picture thread for ammo?
We got a picture thread for just about every damn AR gun configuration ever made.
A thread for A1 rifles with bottle openers on them.
A thread for M16A4 replicas or something.
A thread for MRPs, one of my personal favorites.

But how about a ammo picture thread, tacked, so you can find the damn thing.
Pics of ammo in bulk, individually, sectioned, cases, pallets, whatever.
Pics galore, pics, no bullshit discussions but just pics, pics, and more pics.
After all these years yes, the guns are great, I've done hundreds of photos myself.
But the ammo, now that is where the F it is at!
Especially now.

















Link Posted: 2/5/2021 2:49:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2021 2:52:14 PM EST by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 2:52:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2021 2:53:52 PM EST by edwin907]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:


And bear in mind... not everyone thinks advertising your stockpile is a good idea.. especially during these times.
View Quote


Probably wouldn't be, especially if it was all in one place.

The American Eagle is early 90s or older.
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 2:57:39 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 5:55:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/5/2021 8:21:38 PM EST by edwin907]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:


Lol. Well thought out plans do help.
View Quote


06, you been around a while, you know the drill.

I actually inherited all the American Eagle, but it is some pretty zippy stuff for 55gr 223.
That Norinco is advertised as 223 on the box, but there is no flipping' way it is not 5.56.
Ot at least "hot" 223.
Correction: It does not have great flash suppressant.  But it is dirty, and stinks.
And non-corrosive, yeah, it says that on the box, no guarantees from China.
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 8:19:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hazmat401:
Isn’t Black Hills 77 grain the cream of the crop when it comes to 5.56 ammunition?

Any how.... XM193 seems to be the most versatile. I have 1,100 rounds stocked piled with 1,000 of it federal and the rest is PMX xtac

Unfortunately that’s all I have but good news I just got a bonus today so I’m looking to buy another 1,000 rounds for a deal (lol yeah I know)
View Quote


After talking to a lot of fellow shooters recently I have come to realize that what you have is actually a pretty good amount compared to what most people have-even those who claim to stockpile.

I know a guy who has 3,000 rounds of 5.56 and says it'll last him the rest of his life. IDK, maybe it will.
Link Posted: 2/5/2021 11:31:12 PM EST
In the current environment it doesn't make since to settle on one. Get what you can, when you can
Link Posted: 2/6/2021 11:09:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/6/2021 11:12:03 AM EST by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 2/7/2021 9:13:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/7/2021 9:16:27 AM EST by Horrible_Aim]
I have a few thousand rounds of M193 for training and 1,500 rounds of IWI 77gr. SMK for defense/SHTF.

My 12.5" and 20" BCMs handle both very well. Absolute confidence in the IWI 77gr. for defense, hunting, etc., it's accurate and will wreck whatever it hits from either of those barrel lengths.

Just snagged 500 more rounds of it on Gunbroker for a little over $1 each, still deals to be found if you keep your eyes peeled.
Link Posted: 2/7/2021 1:14:00 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AK-12:


After talking to a lot of fellow shooters recently I have come to realize that what you have is actually a pretty good amount compared to what most people have-even those who claim to stockpile.

I know a guy who has 3,000 rounds of 5.56 and says it'll last him the rest of his life. IDK, maybe it will.
View Quote


Yeah so I bought another 500 rounds of XM193 for $400 (as good as it gets) and I’m thinking about buying 500 rounds of that IMI 77 grain for SHTF

I also have over 5k of 9mm.... very satisfied with that lol

Link Posted: 2/7/2021 1:32:10 PM EST
I settled on Wolf Gold .223, since it was at the time easy to get, and plentiful.

Have been considering pulling all the bullets, and re-weigh the charges.  Get them to IMI-tier velocity.

It would require, of course,  the sacrifice of a certain percent of them for their powder.  

Have maybe 4k of it, so it would be quite a project.  Anemic cartridges just don't blow my skirt up much, though.

Worth the effort, I think.
Link Posted: 2/8/2021 12:50:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/8/2021 12:55:50 PM EST by bfoosh06]
Link Posted: 2/8/2021 1:55:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/8/2021 3:21:12 PM EST by GySgt_D]
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't do all 4k.  

This is more along the lines of something to do on an icy cold weekend for my own amusement, but I haven't yet chrono'd the two to see if the velocity disparity is worth the effort.

Link Posted: 2/10/2021 1:03:46 PM EST
For buying large quantities of?

Whatever you can get for the cheapest price per round.
Link Posted: 2/11/2021 11:03:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/11/2021 11:03:45 AM EST by jkitchen]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Brian01:
For buying large quantities of?

Whatever you can get for the cheapest price per round.
View Quote

I wouldn't stockpile anything right now but around this time last year a case of wolf gold was $279 and my plan was to buy a case or 2 a month as funds allow and Corona hit a few weeks later.
Link Posted: 2/11/2021 5:05:14 PM EST
Interested in hearing the superiority of 193 over 855 in SBRs.

Basically higher velocity from shorter barrels to fragment better?
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 2:00:33 PM EST
Is XM193 really a good choice for a 12.5” barrel? I assume you have a 1/7 twist and if I understand, 193 fmj really needs more barrel and a 1/12 twist to allow its true potential.

Am I incorrect?
Link Posted: 2/13/2021 3:11:55 PM EST
OP, it looks like you already have a pretty good stock pile. 5K in the trunk plus a few thousand more unless the 5k is not yours.  Here in the US you are lucky to find even a thousand rounds of anything anywhere so the answer is stockpile whatever you can get your hands on.  As far as barrel length I would suggest getting an additional upper with a longer barrel maybe 14.5 or 16.  The cost of an additional upper is minimal compared to the 3-4 thousand dollars it would take to stockpile this amount of ammo.
Link Posted: 2/17/2021 8:52:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GAU-8:
OP, it looks like you already have a pretty good stock pile. 5K in the trunk plus a few thousand more unless the 5k is not yours.  Here in the US you are lucky to find even a thousand rounds of anything anywhere so the answer is stockpile whatever you can get your hands on.  As far as barrel length I would suggest getting an additional upper with a longer barrel maybe 14.5 or 16.  The cost of an additional upper is minimal compared to the 3-4 thousand dollars it would take to stockpile this amount of ammo.
View Quote


I have a 20" A2 and 2 extra 16"s. The 12.5" is my primary go to rifle.
Link Posted: 2/17/2021 8:53:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SIASL:
Is XM193 really a good choice for a 12.5” barrel? I assume you have a 1/7 twist and if I understand, 193 fmj really needs more barrel and a 1/12 twist to allow its true potential.

Am I incorrect?
View Quote


XM193 shoots great from my 12.5, I just zero'd the rifle at 25 and still shoots spot on at 200.
Link Posted: 2/17/2021 10:28:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:


XM193 shoots great from my 12.5, I just zero'd the rifle at 25 and still shoots spot on at 200.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:
Originally Posted By SIASL:
Is XM193 really a good choice for a 12.5” barrel? I assume you have a 1/7 twist and if I understand, 193 fmj really needs more barrel and a 1/12 twist to allow its true potential.

Am I incorrect?


XM193 shoots great from my 12.5, I just zero'd the rifle at 25 and still shoots spot on at 200.

My question wasn’t about accuracy issues but more about terminal performance. If what I understand is correct, XM193 as an FMJ can be devastating on soft targets but it must have velocity to do it which is what the long barrels allow. That and the 1/12 twist are what allows XM193 it’s full potential. Without velocity, it’ll most likely ice-pick fleshy targets. That’s how I understand it but I’m known to be wrong a lot so...
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 11:31:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SIASL:

My question wasn’t about accuracy issues but more about terminal performance. If what I understand is correct, XM193 as an FMJ can be devastating on soft targets but it must have velocity to do it which is what the long barrels allow. That and the 1/12 twist are what allows XM193 it’s full potential. Without velocity, it’ll most likely ice-pick fleshy targets. That’s how I understand it but I’m known to be wrong a lot so...
View Quote


Out of a short barrel 855 still has the capability to fragment

Lake City M855 SBR Ballistic Gel Test
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 11:37:10 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/18/2021 11:53:07 PM EST by SIASL]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:


Out of a short barrel 855 still has the capability to fragment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOJdv38Fypg
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:
Originally Posted By SIASL:

My question wasn’t about accuracy issues but more about terminal performance. If what I understand is correct, XM193 as an FMJ can be devastating on soft targets but it must have velocity to do it which is what the long barrels allow. That and the 1/12 twist are what allows XM193 it’s full potential. Without velocity, it’ll most likely ice-pick fleshy targets. That’s how I understand it but I’m known to be wrong a lot so...


Out of a short barrel 855 still has the capability to fragment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOJdv38Fypg

I thought we were discussing XM193.

ETA: Here’s a video with a comparable(?) 55gr .223 load. Didn’t do too bad but still think its handicapped by barrel length and twist.

How Good Can a Plain 55gr FMJ Bullet Be?


I’ll try and find a gel test video with a 20” and 1/12 twist barrel.
Link Posted: 2/18/2021 11:39:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SIASL:

I thought we were discussing XM193.
View Quote


Correct.

If 855 fragments and goes off like a grenade from an 11.5” barrel and 193 has a higher velocity it should be fine and still fragment and act just like it’s supposed to.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 12:01:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/19/2021 12:02:05 AM EST by SIASL]
Here’s one of a 24” barrel.

24" M193 5.56 Ballistics Gel 4K
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 12:16:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/19/2021 12:26:16 AM EST by SIASL]
You know, I can’t find one gel test vid with a plain jane 20” barrel with 1/12 twist and XM193. I found one where MAC is shooting melons but that’s it. Maybe someone else can find one and post it.

ETA: Here’s the melon shoot with MAC

Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:27:26 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SIASL:
You know, I can’t find one gel test vid with a plain jane 20” barrel with 1/12 twist and XM193. I found one where MAC is shooting melons but that’s it. Maybe someone else can find one and post it.

ETA: Here’s the melon shoot with MAC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t7NQnKWyW8
View Quote


M855 is still very, very bad for you out of a 14.5" barrel. It still fragments and causes  fatal injuries.

I remember a few years ago DU was complaining about a guy being a Christian and using a DMR in Iraq to hit insurgents. He was doing a lot of it at distances well past 100 yards, in one case 550ish yards, with an m16a4 and plain ol' 855, a SAM-R clone.

Even in the case of non fragmentation .22 caliber holes are very bad for you as the insurgent of truth proved

Link Posted: 2/19/2021 1:05:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fadedsun:


M855 is still very, very bad for you out of a 14.5" barrel. It still fragments and causes  fatal injuries.

I remember a few years ago DU was complaining about a guy being a Christian and using a DMR in Iraq to hit insurgents. He was doing a lot of it at distances well past 100 yards, in one case 550ish yards, with an m16a4 and plain ol' 855, a SAM-R clone.

Even in the case of non fragmentation .22 caliber holes are very bad for you as the insurgent of truth proved

View Quote

Yes Sir, I cannot say it wouldn’t be a bad day at all. I certainly wouldn’t volunteer to be at the receiving end.
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