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Posted: 12/23/2020 2:32:21 PM EDT
[#1]
M855 through an SBR?
Sure it'll make a hole, but it'll likely be an ice pick. I certainly wouldn't want to be shot by it but there are much better options for SD ammo out of an SBR. That said there's nothing "wrong" with Federal and out of your choices I prefer that brand. Edit: I see that you're in the Ukraine. Can you not get good bonded soft points there? Or something like the heavy SMK/TMK or even all copper bullets? (I honestly don't know). |
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Posted: 12/23/2020 2:47:35 PM EDT
[#2]
M193 Would be my choice over M855 for bulk stocking.
But not by a huge margin. |
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Posted: 12/23/2020 2:51:57 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M855 through an SBR? Sure it'll make a hole, but it'll likely be an ice pick. I certainly wouldn't want to be shot by it but there are much better options for SD ammo out of an SBR. That said there's nothing "wrong" with Federal and out of your choices I prefer that brand. It's a 12.5" SBR, so not terrible. Most of the stuff is 5-6 years old, climate stored if that matters. I'm in the USA, M855 is just way easier to get in bulk. |
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Posted: 12/23/2020 2:55:11 PM EDT
[#4]
M193
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Posted: 12/23/2020 5:01:21 PM EDT
[#5]
Only one...for everything?
Quote HistoryQuoted: M193 |
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Posted: 12/23/2020 7:23:15 PM EDT
[#6]
 Hard to get anything else in bulk, really. I can't get 5k rounds of mk318 or Hornady 55 grain GMX for 46 cents a round. |
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Posted: 12/23/2020 8:32:26 PM EDT
[#7]
OP:
I'll be honest, I'm not sure of your question or if you have one........ Are you asking what order to shoot them in? Are wanting to sell off the others after picking one to stay with? Are you wanting to sell off what you have for the "chosen" load? |
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Posted: 12/23/2020 8:58:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP: I'll be honest, I'm not sure of your question or if you have one........ Are you asking what order to shoot them in? Are wanting to sell off the others after picking one to stay with? Are you wanting to sell off what you have for the "chosen" load? Which of the 855 clones would be the best one to focus on? Not selling anything. I get tons and tons of the winchester 855 in, I Just don't keep most of it. |
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Posted: 12/23/2020 11:14:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which of the 855 clones would be the best one to focus on? Not selling anything. I get tons and tons of the winchester 855 in, I Just don't keep most of it. Ok..... they all are... plus/minus.... the same so pick one ..... shoot it up.... then the next... so on ???? And if you aren't selling ..... where is the Winchester going? Don't over think this..... they are all essentially the same.... Pick one to shoot and be done with this..... |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 2:04:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a 12.5" SBR, so not terrible. Most of the stuff is 5-6 years old, climate stored if that matters. I'm in the USA, M855 is just way easier to get in bulk. Gotcha. My tests show that most of the M855 variants are in the 2850 fps range out of a 12.5” barrel. Not too shabby honestly and this actually makes 12.5” one of the best barrel lengths in my opinion. I wouldn’t be too worried about any M855 at typical SD ranges out of that gun, with my preference still being Federal. LC made Winchester would be my 2nd choice. |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 10:06:53 AM EDT
[#11]
Given your choices, I would see which is the most accurate.
I have seen much better accuracy from PMC XTAC M855 over the others listed... YMMV |
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Posted: 12/24/2020 4:52:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Sell all of your 855 and use the funds to replace it with 193.
This is what I did at the start of this whole panic and made out 350rds on top of what I sold as well as a couple of hundred bucks. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 1:59:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Most of my stockpile is M855, with the majority being IMI and Federal; I also have some Winchester and PMC. I don't have any SBRs and prefer the 62 gr projectile as I have found it to have better external ballistic performance out of my rifles, despite the fact that M193 is en vogue on this site. I also have a couple optics (like an Elcan Specter) with BDCs calibrated for 62 gr bullets so to me it makes more sense than 55s. Both of my 5.56 rifles have 1:7 barrels.
I have not noticed a substantial difference in performance such as having to adjust my zero for one brand of M855 vice another, and have not had reliability issues with any of it. Winchester does seem to be the dirtiest, followed by PMC. IMI has the nicest brass if you reload. |
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Posted: 1/7/2021 7:07:39 PM EDT
[#14]
M855 isn't particularly accurate ammo to begin with so I wouldn't worry too much about the brand. You'll likely not be able to tell the difference anyway.
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Posted: 1/7/2021 7:51:27 PM EDT
[#15]
Stockpile for what? If it’s to shoot, just stockpile whatever you can get. You don’t need one specific brand/kind. However, when it’s normal times I only use Federal, Speer and Magtech ammo due to their manufacturing consistency (Except for hunting/target ammo, which is a different topic). Right now with ammunition availability, there’s no legitimate reason to stockpile only one kind of ammo.
If you HAD to stockpile any ammo, the ideal option would be to find out which ammo shoots most reliably and most accurately. Then pick that one. With FMJ ammunition, the variations of what happens when the bullet hits an intended target is marginal between loads. I’ve seen both go through cars, both be stopped by cars, both punch huge chunks out of people, and both zip right through people. FMJ (be it penetrator or non-penetrator) is consistently inconsistent and predictably unpredictable. Such is why LE don’t use it for duty use. |
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Posted: 1/9/2021 12:33:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of my stockpile is M855, with the majority being IMI and Federal; I also have some Winchester and PMC. I don't have any SBRs and prefer the 62 gr projectile as I have found it to have better external ballistic performance out of my rifles, despite the fact that M193 is en vogue on this site. I also have a couple optics (like an Elcan Specter) with BDCs calibrated for 62 gr bullets so to me it makes more sense than 55s. Both of my 5.56 rifles have 1:7 barrels. I have not noticed a substantial difference in performance such as having to adjust my zero for one brand of M855 vice another, and have not had reliability issues with any of it. Winchester does seem to be the dirtiest, followed by PMC. IMI has the nicest brass if you reload. That was my big impetus for going to one load. No zero shift. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 10:34:08 PM EDT
[#17]
XM193 from federal would be my 1st choice,
IMi M855 would be choice #2 followed by IMI M193 and Fed XM855 ETA: XM193 IS my bulk stock. I have sold off some quantity of IMI M193 but also keep a couple of cases of IMI M855 |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 9:30:17 PM EDT
[#18]
22 Remington Jet
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Posted: 2/4/2021 10:26:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Molon's testing showed IMI followed by PMC XTAC to the best and second best M855 ammos. IMI being hot and accurate, PMC XTAC being a touch under standard m855 velocities, which is made up for by it's accuracy.
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Posted: 2/5/2021 9:07:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Molon's testing showed IMI followed by PMC XTAC to the best and second best M855 ammos. IMI being hot and accurate, PMC XTAC being a touch under standard m855 velocities, which is made up for by it's accuracy. Molon's tests were a long time ago (10 years?) Pretty much every manufacturer has reduced the velocity of their 5.56 loads to appease American shooters who complained about them being too hot in their non-mil spec guns  Thanks guys |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 10:40:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Molon's tests were a long time ago (10 years?) Pretty much every manufacturer has reduced the velocity of their 5.56 loads to appease American shooters who complained about them being too hot in their non-mil spec guns Thanks guys You are right there. The need to have rifles function with crappy ComBloc steel case trash has led to non-mil spec gas ports. Remember the old Norinco 55gr yellow box, or Q3131A? That stuff was hot. My 90's vintage American Eagle 223 55gr was even stout compared to some of todays 223 loads. Had a guy with a beautiful 20" DMR style rifle ask me how hot I loaded the 77gr ammo I gave him to try. I told him, I didn't load it, Black Hills did, MK262 Mod1. "Didn't you look at the box?" He said, "That was it, the real stuff?" "Yes" I replied. "Wow," he said, "Smoking hot, accurate too. Got any more?" |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 12:09:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Isn’t Black Hills 77 grain the cream of the crop when it comes to 5.56 ammunition?
Any how.... XM193 seems to be the most versatile. I have 1,100 rounds stocked piled with 1,000 of it federal and the rest is PMX xtac Unfortunately that’s all I have but good news I just got a bonus today so I’m looking to buy another 1,000 rounds for a deal (lol yeah I know) |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 2:19:23 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn’t Black Hills 77 grain the cream of the crop when it comes to 5.56 ammunition? Any how.... XM193 seems to be the most versatile. I have 1,100 rounds stocked piled with 1,000 of it federal and the rest is PMX xtac Unfortunately that’s all I have but good news I just got a bonus today so I’m looking to buy another 1,000 rounds for a deal (lol yeah I know) Keep buying, you will never be sorry you did. I just gave my almost brother in law about 800 rounds of Federal XM193. I still got the case of Q3131 with a $102.99 price tag on it. Loaded my brother up with some too. This shit ain't never going to go out of style. And one more thing. How come we don't have a picture thread for ammo? We got a picture thread for just about every damn AR gun configuration ever made. A thread for A1 rifles with bottle openers on them. A thread for M16A4 replicas or something. A thread for MRPs, one of my personal favorites. But how about a ammo picture thread, tacked, so you can find the damn thing. Pics of ammo in bulk, individually, sectioned, cases, pallets, whatever. Pics galore, pics, no bullshit discussions but just pics, pics, and more pics. After all these years yes, the guns are great, I've done hundreds of photos myself. But the ammo, now that is where the F it is at! Especially now.      |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 3:49:35 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep buying, you will never be sorry you did. I just gave my almost brother in law about 800 rounds of Federal XM193. I still got the case of Q3131 with a $102.99 price tag on it. Loaded my brother up with some too. This shit ain't never going to go out of style. And one more thing. How come we don't have a picture thread for ammo? We got a picture thread for just about every damn AR gun configuration ever made. A thread for A1 rifles with bottle openers on them. A thread for M16A4 replicas or something. A thread for MRPs, one of my personal favorites. But how about a ammo picture thread, tacked, so you can find the damn thing. Pics of ammo in bulk, individually, sectioned, cases, pallets, whatever. Pics galore, pics, no bullshit discussions but just pics, pics, and more pics. After all these years yes, the guns are great, I've done hundreds of photos myself. But the ammo, now that is where the F it is at! Especially now. @edwin907 https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/So-who-are-the-real-Ammo-Whores-in-here/16-307338/ And bear in mind... not everyone thinks advertising your stockpile is a good idea.. especially during these corrupt loonies / political times. I gotta ask... how old is the American Eagle 55gr ? Looks pre "red boxed". |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 3:52:49 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And bear in mind... not everyone thinks advertising your stockpile is a good idea.. especially during these times. Probably wouldn't be, especially if it was all in one place. The American Eagle is early 90s or older. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 3:57:39 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Probably wouldn't be, especially if it was all in one place. The American Eagle is early 90s or older. Lol. Well thought out plans do help. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 6:55:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. Well thought out plans do help. 06, you been around a while, you know the drill. I actually inherited all the American Eagle, but it is some pretty zippy stuff for 55gr 223. That Norinco is advertised as 223 on the box, but there is no flipping' way it is not 5.56. Ot at least "hot" 223. Correction: It does not have great flash suppressant. But it is dirty, and stinks. And non-corrosive, yeah, it says that on the box, no guarantees from China. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 9:19:28 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isn’t Black Hills 77 grain the cream of the crop when it comes to 5.56 ammunition? Any how.... XM193 seems to be the most versatile. I have 1,100 rounds stocked piled with 1,000 of it federal and the rest is PMX xtac Unfortunately that’s all I have but good news I just got a bonus today so I’m looking to buy another 1,000 rounds for a deal (lol yeah I know) After talking to a lot of fellow shooters recently I have come to realize that what you have is actually a pretty good amount compared to what most people have-even those who claim to stockpile. I know a guy who has 3,000 rounds of 5.56 and says it'll last him the rest of his life. IDK, maybe it will. |
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Posted: 2/6/2021 12:31:12 AM EDT
[#29]
In the current environment it doesn't make since to settle on one. Get what you can, when you can
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Posted: 2/6/2021 12:09:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 06, you been around a while, you know the drill. I actually inherited all the American Eagle, but it is some pretty zippy stuff for 55gr 223. That Norinco is advertised as 223 on the box, but there is no flipping' way it is not 5.56. Ot at least "hot" 223. Correction: It does not have great flash suppressant. But it is dirty, and stinks. And non-corrosive, yeah, it says that on the box, no guarantees from China. I'm still feeding off the Guat. Surplus from way back ... Lol. I just stumbled over some '89 IMI M855 in the 30rd brown cardboard boxes. I should open some and make sure the cardboard isn't messing with the cases. That Norinco ".223" was a heck of a deal.... the South African smelled like cat piss at times. As for using various different ammos in ones stockpile... just make sure you try some out, at the very least , just to see if the point of impact is different. |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:13:41 AM EDT
[#31]
I have a few thousand rounds of M193 for training and 1,500 rounds of IWI 77gr. SMK for defense/SHTF.
My 12.5" and 20" BCMs handle both very well. Absolute confidence in the IWI 77gr. for defense, hunting, etc., it's accurate and will wreck whatever it hits from either of those barrel lengths. Just snagged 500 more rounds of it on Gunbroker for a little over $1 each, still deals to be found if you keep your eyes peeled. |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 2:14:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: After talking to a lot of fellow shooters recently I have come to realize that what you have is actually a pretty good amount compared to what most people have-even those who claim to stockpile. I know a guy who has 3,000 rounds of 5.56 and says it'll last him the rest of his life. IDK, maybe it will. Yeah so I bought another 500 rounds of XM193 for $400 (as good as it gets) and I’m thinking about buying 500 rounds of that IMI 77 grain for SHTF I also have over 5k of 9mm.... very satisfied with that lol |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 2:32:10 PM EDT
[#33]
I settled on Wolf Gold .223, since it was at the time easy to get, and plentiful.
Have been considering pulling all the bullets, and re-weigh the charges. Get them to IMI-tier velocity. It would require, of course, the sacrifice of a certain percent of them for their powder. Have maybe 4k of it, so it would be quite a project. Anemic cartridges just don't blow my skirt up much, though. Worth the effort, I think. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 1:50:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I settled on Wolf Gold .223, since it was at the time easy to get, and plentiful. Have been considering pulling all the bullets, and re-weigh the charges. Get them to IMI-tier velocity. It would require, of course, the sacrifice of a certain percent of them for their powder. Have maybe 4k of it, so it would be quite a project. Anemic cartridges just don't blow my skirt up much, though. Worth the effort, I think. Correct me if I am wrong... but I thought Wolf Gold was closer to 5.56 velocities , then .223 velocities, especially out of 16" barrels. Just couldn't help but mention this, since 4K of pulling and readjusting seems like a hella' lot work. Eagle_19er's excellent thread... ( I'd be concerned I would mess up the accuracy of the load as well , but I am more of a precision freak ) https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Suppressed-5-56-SBR-Velocity-Tests--41-Factory-Loads-from-10-5--11-5--12-5-and-14-5-ALL-DONE-/16-714088/ |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 2:55:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Yeah, I definitely wouldn't do all 4k.
This is more along the lines of something to do on an icy cold weekend for my own amusement, but I haven't yet chrono'd the two to see if the velocity disparity is worth the effort. |
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Posted: 2/10/2021 2:03:46 PM EDT
[#36]
For buying large quantities of?
Whatever you can get for the cheapest price per round. |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 12:03:21 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For buying large quantities of? Whatever you can get for the cheapest price per round. I wouldn't stockpile anything right now but around this time last year a case of wolf gold was $279 and my plan was to buy a case or 2 a month as funds allow and Corona hit a few weeks later. |
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Posted: 2/11/2021 6:05:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Interested in hearing the superiority of 193 over 855 in SBRs.
Basically higher velocity from shorter barrels to fragment better? |
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Posted: 2/12/2021 3:00:33 PM EDT
[#39]
Is XM193 really a good choice for a 12.5” barrel? I assume you have a 1/7 twist and if I understand, 193 fmj really needs more barrel and a 1/12 twist to allow its true potential.
Am I incorrect? |
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Posted: 2/13/2021 4:11:55 PM EDT
[#40]
OP, it looks like you already have a pretty good stock pile. 5K in the trunk plus a few thousand more unless the 5k is not yours. Here in the US you are lucky to find even a thousand rounds of anything anywhere so the answer is stockpile whatever you can get your hands on. As far as barrel length I would suggest getting an additional upper with a longer barrel maybe 14.5 or 16. The cost of an additional upper is minimal compared to the 3-4 thousand dollars it would take to stockpile this amount of ammo.
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Posted: 2/17/2021 9:52:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP, it looks like you already have a pretty good stock pile. 5K in the trunk plus a few thousand more unless the 5k is not yours. Here in the US you are lucky to find even a thousand rounds of anything anywhere so the answer is stockpile whatever you can get your hands on. As far as barrel length I would suggest getting an additional upper with a longer barrel maybe 14.5 or 16. The cost of an additional upper is minimal compared to the 3-4 thousand dollars it would take to stockpile this amount of ammo. I have a 20" A2 and 2 extra 16"s. The 12.5" is my primary go to rifle. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 9:53:27 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is XM193 really a good choice for a 12.5” barrel? I assume you have a 1/7 twist and if I understand, 193 fmj really needs more barrel and a 1/12 twist to allow its true potential. Am I incorrect? XM193 shoots great from my 12.5, I just zero'd the rifle at 25 and still shoots spot on at 200. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 11:28:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: XM193 shoots great from my 12.5, I just zero'd the rifle at 25 and still shoots spot on at 200. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is XM193 really a good choice for a 12.5” barrel? I assume you have a 1/7 twist and if I understand, 193 fmj really needs more barrel and a 1/12 twist to allow its true potential. Am I incorrect? XM193 shoots great from my 12.5, I just zero'd the rifle at 25 and still shoots spot on at 200. My question wasn’t about accuracy issues but more about terminal performance. If what I understand is correct, XM193 as an FMJ can be devastating on soft targets but it must have velocity to do it which is what the long barrels allow. That and the 1/12 twist are what allows XM193 it’s full potential. Without velocity, it’ll most likely ice-pick fleshy targets. That’s how I understand it but I’m known to be wrong a lot so... |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 12:31:16 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My question wasn’t about accuracy issues but more about terminal performance. If what I understand is correct, XM193 as an FMJ can be devastating on soft targets but it must have velocity to do it which is what the long barrels allow. That and the 1/12 twist are what allows XM193 it’s full potential. Without velocity, it’ll most likely ice-pick fleshy targets. That’s how I understand it but I’m known to be wrong a lot so... Out of a short barrel 855 still has the capability to fragment  Lake City M855 SBR Ballistic Gel Test |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 12:37:10 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Out of a short barrel 855 still has the capability to fragment  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOJdv38FypgQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My question wasn’t about accuracy issues but more about terminal performance. If what I understand is correct, XM193 as an FMJ can be devastating on soft targets but it must have velocity to do it which is what the long barrels allow. That and the 1/12 twist are what allows XM193 it’s full potential. Without velocity, it’ll most likely ice-pick fleshy targets. That’s how I understand it but I’m known to be wrong a lot so... Out of a short barrel 855 still has the capability to fragment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOJdv38FypgI thought we were discussing XM193. ETA: Here’s a video with a comparable(?) 55gr .223 load. Didn’t do too bad but still think its handicapped by barrel length and twist.  How Good Can a Plain 55gr FMJ Bullet Be? I’ll try and find a gel test video with a 20” and 1/12 twist barrel. |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 12:39:56 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought we were discussing XM193. Correct. If 855 fragments and goes off like a grenade from an 11.5” barrel and 193 has a higher velocity it should be fine and still fragment and act just like it’s supposed to. |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 1:01:43 AM EDT
[#47]
Here’s one of a 24” barrel.
 24" M193 5.56 Ballistics Gel 4K |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 1:16:43 AM EDT
[#48]
You know, I can’t find one gel test vid with a plain jane 20” barrel with 1/12 twist and XM193. I found one where MAC is shooting melons but that’s it. Maybe someone else can find one and post it.
ETA: Here’s the melon shoot with MAC  Test: Vietnam era M193 ball 1:12 twist vs. Modern M855 ball 1:7 twist |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 12:27:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know, I can’t find one gel test vid with a plain jane 20” barrel with 1/12 twist and XM193. I found one where MAC is shooting melons but that’s it. Maybe someone else can find one and post it. ETA: Here’s the melon shoot with MAC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t7NQnKWyW8M855 is still very, very bad for you out of a 14.5" barrel. It still fragments and causes fatal injuries. I remember a few years ago DU was complaining about a guy being a Christian and using a DMR in Iraq to hit insurgents. He was doing a lot of it at distances well past 100 yards, in one case 550ish yards, with an m16a4 and plain ol' 855, a SAM-R clone. Even in the case of non fragmentation .22 caliber holes are very bad for you as the insurgent of truth proved  |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 2:05:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M855 is still very, very bad for you out of a 14.5" barrel. It still fragments and causes fatal injuries. I remember a few years ago DU was complaining about a guy being a Christian and using a DMR in Iraq to hit insurgents. He was doing a lot of it at distances well past 100 yards, in one case 550ish yards, with an m16a4 and plain ol' 855, a SAM-R clone. Even in the case of non fragmentation .22 caliber holes are very bad for you as the insurgent of truth proved Yes Sir, I cannot say it wouldn’t be a bad day at all. I certainly wouldn’t volunteer to be at the receiving end. |
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