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Posted: 1/3/2018 6:02:55 PM EDT
How come on many (historic and modern) pictures showing A1 carbines in use does the user affix the front of the sling to the rear post of the FSB either directly or using paracord rather than using the rifle's supplied front sling swivel? Sometimes with the collapsible CAR stocks, you even see paracord attachment at the rear, too.

I would think the purpose built sling swivels are both more robust and make using sling as a shooting-aid easier, no?
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 6:18:16 PM EDT
It was easier to carry them that way. Using the sling swivels turns the weapon upside down. Not really useful when on patrol
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 6:21:03 PM EDT
What Soldier65 said:  before there were side-mounted sling swivels, the paracord loop (both ends for me) allowed the weapon to hang on it's side.
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 6:53:20 PM EDT
That makes sense.
I'm working on doing a 610/XM177 clone at the moment and think I'll still attach the sling to the proper sling swivel anyways because I'm not going patrols with itand all my other A1/A2 rifles attach their slings to the front swivel, too.
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 6:57:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By soldier65:
It was easier to carry them that way. Using the sling swivels turns the weapon upside down. Not really useful when on patrol
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Link Posted: 1/3/2018 7:35:39 PM EDT
Statements above are the reason.  I used the metal clip with the M16A2 w/203, was't great but functioned.  I can't imagine the paracord working well with any significant shooting/heating/melting.
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 7:46:31 PM EDT
It will absolutely melt during a typical combat engagement. That's why the GI attachments were metal.

Depending on who you were (and the time period) the para cord solution may have been all that was available. Originally the side swivel was part of the M203 grenadier's accoutrements.
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 7:48:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By imdBman:
Statements above are the reason.  I used the metal clip with the M16A2 w/203, was't great but functioned.  I can't imagine the paracord working well with any significant shooting/heating/melting.
View Quote
I have my 10.5", full auto, work gun set up like that. Granted, I don't do mag dumps with it, but some full auto, or sustained rapid fire has never caused a problem. If you have to get it hot enough to cause a problem, you probably aren't going to live through it anyway.
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 8:26:43 PM EDT
Because this wasn't issued until sometime in the late 70's..


... and if you left in on your rifle, the REMF in the arms room would remove it and throw it in the trash. AR15.com thead on the subject.
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 8:37:39 PM EDT
GI's had other method of "ready carry"



I can't remember what this strap was originally for but I still want one.
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 8:50:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2018 8:52:15 PM EDT by Fortis120]
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Originally Posted By Cal30M1:
GI's had other method of "ready carry"

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/Cal30M1/Untitled-2.jpg

I can't remember what this strap was originally for but I still want one.
View Quote
"Sling, General Purpose" were commonly used. They were thicker in the middle than the ends.  This one looks the same thickness the entire length
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 9:35:48 PM EDT
Looks like a plain ol GP sling to me. What's it attached with? Grenade pull rings?
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 11:14:20 PM EDT
I had my old work gun rigged like that for years. Never had an issue with melting. Just semi auto fire and I wasn’t dumping lots of mags but some rapid shooting.
Link Posted: 1/3/2018 11:27:44 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Cal30M1:
GI's had other method of "ready carry"

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/Cal30M1/Untitled-2.jpg

I can't remember what this strap was originally for but I still want one.
View Quote
That sure looks like one of the carry straps used to carry the winding spool of commo/telephone wire. The latches are those bigger "lobster claw" type that is unique to the straps used with those.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 1:50:46 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jrpett:

That sure looks like one of the carry straps used to carry the winding spool of commo/telephone wire. The latches are those bigger "lobster claw" type that is unique to the straps used with those.
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DEFINITELY not a GP strap because like you say it has those claw type clips!

I think someone here identified the positively and I must not have been able to find one for sale or I would already have one.

I'll try to goog a confirmation on the com spool strap.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 2:33:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2018 2:33:44 AM EDT by DvlDog]
2qt canteen carrier strap is what's in that pic.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 7:24:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2018 7:24:57 AM EDT by m47181]
I know a lot of sog guys carried them like that because there were no metal parts to make noise. But as said it was mainly because early in the war there were not a lot of options for the xm177
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 9:33:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 9:43:01 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By m47181:
I know a lot of sog guys carried them like that because there were no metal parts to make noise.
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correct.  If you look at how the IDF attach their awesome sling, you'll see they paracord it from the sling clip to the FSB and buttstock slot cut as well.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 10:51:16 AM EDT
Firing from the shoulder using the GI sling swivels rotates the sight to the off side under tension. With paracord or a ring in the FSB it pulls to the side and there is only lateral stress. GI sling swivel locations were intended for carry and parade, not actual shooting.

The heat necessary to melt paracord involves mag dumping more than one or two - ROE is usually single fire or burst only thru the years, not full auto. If you are dumping mags then the sling attachment is very low priority and you likely won't survive long running out of ammo. It's a Die In Place effort.

Therefore - as veterans of actual combat use showed, the attachment to the side of the FSB was preferred. On the other hand, when Army finally woke up, slings were taken off in the field. That was the doctrine in the 80's and common throughout the 90's. Sling = cape, you will get messed up having one during operations in the field. No Sling.

This is why the FSB/paracord deal was actually shortlived. Works fine on a hunting AR but not so much in training and combat. Despite the tactical sling operators union saying they are mandatory. Nope, not so much. Slings are a LIC item for troops patrolling streets and patting down detainees, not so much for ops with a high chance of engagement.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 11:19:13 AM EDT
Made mine from a new-inissued GP strap.

Undid the stitched ends, removed the metal clips, added loops of 550-cord, sewed the ends shut.
Job done.

There was a similar thread/tutorial previously on the Son Tay carbines & the sling was discussed there.
From memory the 550-cord was two different lengths.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 11:53:22 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Cal30M1:
GI's had other method of "ready carry"

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/Cal30M1/Untitled-2.jpg

I can't remember what this strap was originally for but I still want one.
View Quote
Strap for the issue map case.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 12:22:42 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 4thPointOfContact:
Because this wasn't issued until sometime in the late 70's..
http://i25.tinypic.com/16m7nls.jpg

... and if you left in on your rifle, the REMF in the arms room would remove it and throw it in the trash. AR15.com thead on the subject.
View Quote
http://s983.photobucket.com/user/44Echo10/media/Gun%20Stuff/AR/post-5-1211221714_zpswjxggide.jpg.html?sort=9&o=242&hotlinkfix=1515082726367

Let's see if this works. Instruction sheet from a kit dated 25 May 1970 with a contract date of 10/70.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 12:24:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2018 12:35:28 PM EDT by 44Echo10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Cal30M1:
GI's had other method of "ready carry"

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/Cal30M1/Untitled-2.jpg

I can't remember what this strap was originally for but I still want one.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Cal30M1:
GI's had other method of "ready carry"

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/Cal30M1/Untitled-2.jpg

I can't remember what this strap was originally for but I still want one.
Originally Posted By DvlDog:
2qt canteen carrier strap is what's in that pic.
This^^

The first straps were one inch nylon with the same clips and slide adjuster as M1967 web suspenders. Post Vietnam era they went to a standard GP strap for the 2 quart canteen.

http://www.ljmilitaria.com/geargeneral/equipment_.htm  have a look here

vietnamgear.com isn't working
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 1:37:42 PM EDT
In the Reserve USAF SP unit I was in in the late 70s and early 80s, we didn't use slings on out GAU-5/A/A or GAU-5/Ps.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 1:42:18 PM EDT
Buddy of mine that was 1st Air Cav Infantry in 67-68 said that they used to rig up something from the enemies to use as a sling. I'll have to ask him as I can't remember. Interesting subject.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 1:45:55 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By tirod:
Firing from the shoulder using the GI sling swivels rotates the sight to the off side under tension. With paracord or a ring in the FSB it pulls to the side and there is only lateral stress. GI sling swivel locations were intended for carry and parade, not actual shooting.

The heat necessary to melt paracord involves mag dumping more than one or two - ROE is usually single fire or burst only thru the years, not full auto. If you are dumping mags then the sling attachment is very low priority and you likely won't survive long running out of ammo. It's a Die In Place effort.

Therefore - as veterans of actual combat use showed, the attachment to the side of the FSB was preferred. On the other hand, when Army finally woke up, slings were taken off in the field. That was the doctrine in the 80's and common throughout the 90's. Sling = cape, you will get messed up having one during operations in the field. No Sling.

This is why the FSB/paracord deal was actually shortlived. Works fine on a hunting AR but not so much in training and combat. Despite the tactical sling operators union saying they are mandatory. Nope, not so much. Slings are a LIC item for troops patrolling streets and patting down detainees, not so much for ops with a high chance of engagement.
View Quote
Ah, yes...

The 80s and 90s, when so many useful TTPs for "ops with a high chance of engagement" were developed.
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 7:28:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2018 7:29:23 PM EDT by jrs93accord]
There were several ways soldiers attached slings to carbines as well as various types of slings. When I was searching for a sling to use with my XM177E2, I ran across a picture of one using a M14 OD nylon sling attached as you see here on my XM177E2. Very easy install and very functional.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 9:05:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FightingHellfish:
Ah, yes...

The 80s and 90s, when so many useful TTPs for "ops with a high chance of engagement" were developed.
View Quote


~Augee
Link Posted: 1/4/2018 10:08:29 PM EDT
Look up. Troy proctor sling.
Link Posted: 1/5/2018 12:04:23 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jrs93accord:
There were several ways soldiers attached slings to carbines as well as various types of slings. When I was searching for a sling to use with my XM177E2, I ran across a picture of one using a M14 OD nylon sling attached as you see here on my XM177E2. Very easy install and very functional.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/76904/001-411055.JPG
View Quote
I've also seen ALICE pack straps used; made for a nice adjustable sling.
Link Posted: 1/5/2018 5:54:59 PM EDT
Old style 2 qt canteen strap it is! I even found the original thread.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/XM177e2_sling_question_with_photo/123-641091/

Here's the lobster claw I was thinking of.


And here's an early VN era canteen strap.



It's definitely door number 2.
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