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Posted: 8/2/2021 9:01:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#1]
I'm a huge fan of how the geissele mk4 mounts up. I have a very early mk 4, not a fed, with the gumdrop shape cutouts on the bottom, and I really like it. Only problem is that it was pre-mlok. I know this ain't a geissele thread per say, but does anyone know what made them change the mounting design? It's like they took all of the important material from the stability of the rail, and decided to smash it all into where the mounting bolts go? I've always wondered what possessed them to do that?
eta- still working on my 10.5" Troy rail fbi clone. Should have pics very soon. |
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Posted: 8/4/2021 1:29:52 AM EDT
[#2]
Coming soon...
 Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2021 1:45:53 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr:  I’m wondering if the change to 11.5” happened when they adopted the G rail. I can only find the handful of pre- G rail pics, and all have already been posted in this thread. No. The few Troy rail guns I’ve seen locally all have 11.5” barrels with 9” rails. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2021 1:59:13 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ThRob: Great picture, nice to see the Ergo grips and Magpul accessories. I'm guessing that recce upper is a private purchase on an issued lower. No, the 14.5” uppers were a GOV program. The ones local to me have 4x ACOGs rather than Razor LPVOs. In general SWAT Agents have more latitude to chose accessories and enablers such as optics, WML, hand stops/VFG etc vs the general Agent population who have a few limited / specific options from an authorized equipment list. How much latitude varies from Division to Division or team to team. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2021 2:00:33 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKocher: Lol, the FBI is all about their regulations.. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HKocher: Originally Posted By ThRob: Are you sure? They do that in the SF community, not sure why the FBI would be more stingy with the regs Lol, the FBI is all about their regulations.. This ^^^ |
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Posted: 8/4/2021 11:19:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HCM3156: No. The few Troy rail guns I've seen locally all have 11.5" barrels with 9" rails. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HCM3156: Originally Posted By Dyzastr: I'm wondering if the change to 11.5" happened when they adopted the G rail. I can only find the handful of pre- G rail pics, and all have already been posted in this thread. No. The few Troy rail guns I've seen locally all have 11.5" barrels with 9" rails. Eta- there is a seller in the ee selling a whole bunch of 14.5" barrels from fbi swap outs, and he stated they replaced their 14.5" with 10.5". So that info, along with the pics from this thread, has led me to believe 10.5" barrels were/are definitely in use. I do like the look of the 9"/10.5" combo more than the 9"/11.5". here's the difference. Top is 11.5" barrel with 9" Troy, and bottom looks to be a 10.5" with a 9" Troy.  Attached Fileeta- can anyone confirm, is that the older surefire legacy flash hider? We're they using the older surefire suppressors?  Attached FileMost of the images in this thread with a Troy rail do have a 10.5" barrel, but I did find one with what appears to be an 11.5". His light partially obscures the barrel, but if you zoom in, it appears to be an 11.5" with a suppressor attached.  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/5/2021 7:33:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moses_J: Coming soon...https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/222364/931D4342-0323-4B16-B536-68D34A62D604_jpe-2039035.JPG |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2021 12:05:47 PM EDT
[#8]
https://multimedia.fbi.gov/large/7894
https://www.fbi.gov/image-repository/hrt-training-bomb-tech-vest-080719.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7c/ec/3f/7cec3f5d2035e5c3281f7515bcff73ac.jpg Troy rails w/11.5 barrels are g2g Top two were in in 2019 down here, definitely 11.5s with Troy rails (note the one dude rocking a BE Meyers FH instead of Surefire or A2) |
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Posted: 8/5/2021 1:51:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr: OD exps3-0? I wonder how hard it's going to be to find them once released. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr: Originally Posted By Moses_J: Coming soon...https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/222364/931D4342-0323-4B16-B536-68D34A62D604_jpe-2039035.JPG Yes, EOTech shared pictures in a private group on FB. They said they would be a common item so I imagine places like Primary Arms and Euro Optics will have them soon. It would be interested to see how many end up on FBI issued guns. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/5/2021 3:50:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: methical20]
[#10]
NVM
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Posted: 8/5/2021 5:37:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moses_J: Yes, EOTech shared pictures in a private group on FB. They said they would be a common item so I imagine places like Primary Arms and Euro Optics will have them soon. It would be interested to see how many end up on FBI issued guns. I’ll stick to my aimpoint  
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Posted: 8/8/2021 3:16:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Vegas19D: https://multimedia.fbi.gov/large/7894 https://www.fbi.gov/image-repository/hrt-training-bomb-tech-vest-080719.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7c/ec/3f/7cec3f5d2035e5c3281f7515bcff73ac.jpg Troy rails w/11.5 barrels are g2g Top two were in in 2019 down here, definitely 11.5s with Troy rails (note the one dude rocking a BE Meyers FH instead of Surefire or A2) eta- I don't see the image with the b.e. meyers. |
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Posted: 8/8/2021 7:11:43 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr: So it seems as though Troy rails with 10.5" and 11.5" barrels were/are common. I like the look of the 10.5", but I have a lot of 10.3"/10.5" barrels and not one single 11.5". Now to decide. eta- I don't see the image with the b.e. meyers. The 11.5 definitely looks better to me with a 10 inch rail so I vote 10.5 |
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USA
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Posted: 8/9/2021 5:11:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr: I think I'm going to go through the EE when I get one. That way I know it worked at some point.  Update: Got it back a few days ago and seems to be working fine, the LED is definitely different, its way brighter seems to be a cool white. |
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Posted: 8/9/2021 1:42:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#15]
Originally Posted By Bhavin22: The 11.5 definitely looks better to me with a 10 inch rail so I vote 10.5  Attached FileOriginally Posted By LP610: Update: Got it back a few days ago and seems to be working fine, the LED is definitely different, its way brighter seems to be a cool white. |
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Posted: 8/9/2021 5:39:25 PM EDT
[#16]
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Posted: 8/9/2021 5:50:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iasc300ia: Does anyone know what type of rail covers fit here? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/310007/Polish_20210809_163831513_jpg-2046567.JPG |
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Posted: 8/9/2021 6:55:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iasc300ia: Does anyone know what type of rail covers fit here? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/310007/Polish_20210809_163831513_jpg-2046567.JPG those look like ventilation openings, not accessory mounting points. |
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Posted: 8/9/2021 7:55:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Mindfull]
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr: To my knowledge, none. It's a custom shape. They early mk4's had a gumdrop shape cutout. I modified a Slate black m-lok cover since my hand gets pretty hot after a couple strings of fire, but its definitely not securely attached enough for my liking. Besides wearing gloves, I'm trying to figure out what people have used.    
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/9/2021 8:16:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Tejas1836: McMaster-Carr >Super-Corrosion-Resistant 316 Stainless Steel Flat-Tip Set Screws 10-32, 3/16”, 92158A367 >TiN coated wire gauge 50 high speed drill bit, 29045A775 >Class Z plug go gauges = .070” hole So if one were to do this, BRT usually suggested going a size under on the insert. If I read correctly, this drill and gauge would be a true .07 port? The one I got for my green rail is a .065 port for 50/50 mixed use on their suggestion and runs like a top |
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Posted: 8/10/2021 1:34:33 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iasc300ia: I modified a Slate black m-lok cover since my hand gets pretty hot after a couple strings of fire, but its definitely not securely attached enough for my liking. Besides wearing gloves, I'm trying to figure out what people have used. https://i.postimg.cc/J0qdtJVH/20210809-190107.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/zXzc6dKC/20210809-190205.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/fRFq3DFC/20210809-190229.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1t1WHMyN/20210809-190247.jpg Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iasc300ia: Originally Posted By Dyzastr: To my knowledge, none. It's a custom shape. They early mk4's had a gumdrop shape cutout. I modified a Slate black m-lok cover since my hand gets pretty hot after a couple strings of fire, but its definitely not securely attached enough for my liking. Besides wearing gloves, I'm trying to figure out what people have used. https://i.postimg.cc/J0qdtJVH/20210809-190107.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/zXzc6dKC/20210809-190205.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/fRFq3DFC/20210809-190229.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/1t1WHMyN/20210809-190247.jpg |
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Posted: 8/10/2021 1:41:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#22]
Some more Troy pics
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileNot Troy, but more 10.3"/10.5" builds.  Attached File Attached File |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2021 2:59:58 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dyzastr: @HCM3156 -Interesting. Almost all the pics posted in here have 9" Troy rails with 10.5" barrels. Any chance you could get an image or a pic? I still haven't installed the rail, so any excuse to get an 11.5" is fine with me. The one image I saw of a clone with a 9" Troy with an 11.5" barrel was way off proportion wise. Too much barrel was sticking out of the rail when compared with the images of actual fbi/hrt Troy builds. Eta- there is a seller in the ee selling a whole bunch of 14.5" barrels from fbi swap outs, and he stated they replaced their 14.5" with 10.5". So that info, along with the pics from this thread, has led me to believe 10.5" barrels were/are definitely in use. I do like the look of the 9"/10.5" combo more than the 9"/11.5". here's the difference. Top is 11.5" barrel with 9" Troy, and bottom looks to be a 10.5" with a 9" Troy. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/471387/EED41F5D-000A-4899-8A28-FFBB6F3A203D_jpe-2040362.JPG eta- can anyone confirm, is that the older surefire legacy flash hider? We're they using the older surefire suppressors? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/471387/BE4C46E6-4B8F-412B-BDEC-3D1660289404_jpe-2040359.JPG Most of the images in this thread with a Troy rail do have a 10.5" barrel, but I did find one with what appears to be an 11.5". His light partially obscures the barrel, but if you zoom in, it appears to be an 11.5" with a suppressor attached. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/471387/55C3FCD7-6310-4D1F-AAFD-7905E86B387E_jpe-2040371.JPG The only 10.5” guns I’ve seen are old SWAT guns with A frames snd 7” quad rails. The only 14.5” uppers I’ve seen are 14.5” with 13” Mlok G rails. Prior to G rails (or when they were an HRT only thing) the BU went from A frame /7” quad rail guns to Troy alpha rails. The original plan was to make all GOV issued guns 11.5” with 9” Troy Alpha rails. At the same time they brought back k the POW carbine program after a hiatus of several years. The new POW carbine was a 16” 6920 with an 11” Troy Alpha rails. After a couple years of Alpha rails, they dropped the Troy rails and started building all the GOV guns (both SWAT and general agent) and with the 10” MK4s. What does HRT use - HRT works on fight club rules so your guess is as good as mine. Remember it’s a big organization and nothing goes to waste so could some of the first SWAT teams to get Alpha rail guns gotten guns built with left over 10.5” barrels until the supply was exhausted ? Sure. It’s just like other parts and accessories, The BU recently switched from Troy BUIS to magpul MBUS PROs. At a certain point they stopped buying more Troys and started buying magpul’s but the Troy sights that were in stock were not thrown away etc they were just used to build or rebuild guns until they were exhausted and then they started using the magpuls. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/10/2021 3:01:41 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By iasc300ia: Does anyone know what type of rail covers fit here? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/310007/Polish_20210809_163831513_jpg-2046567.JPG None that I’m aware of. Just bigger MLOK rails that might overlap a bit. |
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Posted: 8/10/2021 4:58:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Dyzastr]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HCM3156: The only 10.5" guns I've seen are old SWAT guns with A frames snd 7" quad rails. The only 14.5" uppers I've seen are 14.5" with 13" Mlok G rails. Prior to G rails (or when they were an HRT only thing) the BU went from A frame /7" quad rail guns to Troy alpha rails. The original plan was to make all GOV issued guns 11.5" with 9" Troy Alpha rails. Remember it's a big organization and nothing goes to waste so could some of the first SWAT teams to get Alpha rail guns gotten guns built with left over 10.5" barrels until the supply was exhausted ? Sure. It's just like other parts and accessories, The BU recently switched from Troy BUIS to magpul MBUS PROs. At a certain point they stopped buying more Troys and started buying magpul's but the Troy sights that were in stock were not thrown away etc they were just used to build or rebuild guns until they were exhausted and then they started using the magpuls. So technically, if I wanted to be clone correct, I'd need to find a 9" alpha trx extreme rail if I wanted to do a 10.5" barrel build. I have the std alpha battle rail, so an 11.5" barrel is what I would need. |
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Posted: 8/10/2021 10:20:17 PM EDT
[#26]
Posting my Clone trio here also
 
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Posted: 8/12/2021 1:53:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryNiiiiice!
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Posted: 8/19/2021 12:53:09 PM EDT
[#28]
Has anyone ordered the clone upper from Charlie's Customs with any luck?
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Posted: 8/19/2021 1:02:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JLAudio]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moses_J: Has anyone ordered the clone upper from Charlie's Customs with any luck?  Friends don't let friends order from Charlies Custom clones. I did in 2018 and it was a disaster (urg-i upper) |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 8/19/2021 3:04:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/vladimir-putin-laughing_zpsov82lsef_GIF-129.gif Friends don't let friends order from Charlies Custom clones. I did in 2018 and it was a disaster (urg-i upper) I ordered a Geissele gas block in stainless when no one else had them recently and it arrived quickly and with zero complaints beyond a slight price gouge; when you've got the last of something, you set the price. If there were no other options, I wouldn't hesitate to buy an in-stock item from them again. |
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Posted: 8/19/2021 3:30:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JLAudio: /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/vladimir-putin-laughing_zpsov82lsef_GIF-129.gif Friends don't let friends order from Charlies Custom clones. I did in 2018 and it was a disaster (urg-i upper) What was the deal? I was thinking about just ordering their HRT clone kit where it’s just the barrel and rail. |
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Posted: 8/19/2021 4:03:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moses_J: What was the deal? I was thinking about just ordering their HRT clone kit where it’s just the barrel and rail. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moses_J: What was the deal? I was thinking about just ordering their HRT clone kit where it’s just the barrel and rail. 5 month delay, and then when they did ship something I had to fight for 2 months to get them to make it right. There are countless horror stories with CCC, let alone the owner being a flat out liar. Anyone in the CRA clone groups on Zuckbook knows what I am talking about.  Originally Posted By mrsaturn7085: I ordered a Geissele gas block in stainless when no one else had them recently and it arrived quickly and with zero complaints beyond a slight price gouge; when you've got the last of something, you set the price. If there were no other options, I wouldn't hesitate to buy an in-stock item from them again. That's great, glad you got what you ordered. I prefer to spend my money with honest and ethical companies, and that means CCC doesn't get a penny. |
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Posted: 8/19/2021 11:03:43 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moses_J: What was the deal? I was thinking about just ordering their HRT clone kit where it’s just the barrel and rail. I’d just try to pick up a rail on the equipment exchange or wait for Geissele to get them back in stock (which they do sporadically). For the barrel, it depends on whether you’re doing an HRT build or Regional SWAT build, but either way I’d just get on the notification list from Brownells and other distributors. I snagged a Gen1 black rail off the EE and managed to get a virgin 6933 barrel from Midway (At least I think it was Midway). So it’s possible with patience. |
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Posted: 8/20/2021 11:49:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunner: I'd just try to pick up a rail on the equipment exchange or wait for Geissele to get them back in stock (which they do sporadically). For the barrel, it depends on whether you're doing an HRT build or Regional SWAT build, but either way I'd just get on the notification list from Brownells and other distributors. I snagged a Gen1 black rail off the EE and managed to get a virgin 6933 barrel from Midway (At least I think it was Midway). So it's possible with patience. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunner: Originally Posted By Moses_J: What was the deal? I was thinking about just ordering their HRT clone kit where it's just the barrel and rail. I'd just try to pick up a rail on the equipment exchange or wait for Geissele to get them back in stock (which they do sporadically). For the barrel, it depends on whether you're doing an HRT build or Regional SWAT build, but either way I'd just get on the notification list from Brownells and other distributors. I snagged a Gen1 black rail off the EE and managed to get a virgin 6933 barrel from Midway (At least I think it was Midway). So it's possible with patience. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/22/2021 8:04:51 AM EDT
[#35]
My apologies for the following ignorant questions. I was following this thread in the beginning but have since lost touch with the most current information.
Does DDC indicate HRT? Does anyone have a line on the correct Colt heavy barrel? What are folks using instead of the Colt barrel that has a similar profile? |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:46:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jtdam24: My apologies for the following ignorant questions. I was following this thread in the beginning but have since lost touch with the most current information. Does DDC indicate HRT? Does anyone have a line on the correct Colt heavy barrel? What are folks using instead of the Colt barrel that has a similar profile? Brownells has Colt 11.5 heavy barrels in stock but pricey at $399 |
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USA
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Posted: 8/22/2021 11:42:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: Brownells has Colt 11.5 heavy barrels in stock but pricey at $399 Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FONTY: Originally Posted By jtdam24: My apologies for the following ignorant questions. I was following this thread in the beginning but have since lost touch with the most current information. Does DDC indicate HRT? Does anyone have a line on the correct Colt heavy barrel? What are folks using instead of the Colt barrel that has a similar profile? Brownells has Colt 11.5 heavy barrels in stock but pricey at $399 Thank you I don't know how I missed them. Snagged it! |
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Posted: 8/22/2021 9:45:08 PM EDT
[#38]
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IN, USA
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Posted: 8/22/2021 10:04:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EMSintraining]
[#39]
For a DDC upper, What muzzle device would be correct? I've seen RC2s so I'm wondering what the default is. Warcomp? SF3P, SF4P? closed tine FH?
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Posted: 8/23/2021 8:07:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EMSintraining: For a DDC upper, What muzzle device would be correct? I've seen RC2s so I'm wondering what the default is. Warcomp? SF3P, SF4P? closed tine FH? Not sure, but if you plan on running it suppressed the majority of the time, stay away from the Warcomp. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2021 5:37:09 PM EDT
[#41]
Yeah I know they can be pretty rough on the RC2s. Might split the difference and do a closed tine FH if no definitive answer is out there.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/24/2021 9:16:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Have we gotten any pics of these in use with a can on them? Last info was that they were in T&E wasn't it? Otherwise it seems like all A2 on them.
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Posted: 8/24/2021 9:19:06 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 8/24/2021 9:39:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By EMSintraining: Yeah I know they can be pretty rough on the RC2s. Might split the difference and do a closed tine FH if no definitive answer is out there. It's not a question of how rough it is. Warcomps are objectively louder than the same silencer that uses either a SF 3/4-prong FH or brake. Where the latter have a surface for the suppressor to engage with, the Warcomp has ports. SF themselves has apparently indicated that the Warcomps were not designed to be used with their suppressors if the majority of your shooting will be suppressed. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 8/25/2021 2:21:01 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mdavis: It's not a question of how rough it is. Warcomps are objectively louder than the same silencer that uses either a SF 3/4-prong FH or brake. Where the latter have a surface for the suppressor to engage with, the Warcomp has ports. SF themselves has apparently indicated that the Warcomps were not designed to be used with their suppressors if the majority of your shooting will be suppressed. that I did not know. All the more reason to go FH then. Thanks! |
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Posted: 8/25/2021 7:44:05 PM EDT
[#46]
Im sure the question has been answered before, Surefire rc2 for suppressor or ?
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Posted: 8/27/2021 3:03:25 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 8/27/2021 3:31:58 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Moses_J: Finally got some things in. Still have a few left to tweak https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/222364/6DF58FDD-1026-4FA8-BAFD-6D7701B30054_jpe-2068271.JPG That looks great! What light are you going to go with? I need to get off my ass and assemble mine. |
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Posted: 8/27/2021 3:49:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunner: That looks great! What light are you going to go with? I need to get off my ass and assemble mine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AZgunner: Originally Posted By Moses_J: Finally got some things in. Still have a few left to tweak https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/222364/6DF58FDD-1026-4FA8-BAFD-6D7701B30054_jpe-2068271.JPG That looks great! What light are you going to go with? I need to get off my ass and assemble mine. Thanks! It won’t be clone correct but I’m really wanting to try out the Cloud Defensive Rein Micro. |
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USA
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Posted: 8/27/2021 3:50:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Received my Colt barrel today and of course have the ddc geissele MK4 rail. This one won't be a true clone or even close to it as I've decided to use a Vltor MUR1A upper...
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