User Panel
[#1]
Quoted: Would it be possible to start them at a later serial range instead of adding an additional numeral? i.e. start them at SERIAL903000 View Quote Unfortunately not. We have too many variances submitted to the ATF that start with SERIAL900000. This one will have a "0" in front of the 9 as to be in the good graces of the ATF, and as well as our compliance folks not going crazy with these extremely similar SN's. Thank you, Josiah |
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[#2]
Quoted: You're welcome. Very cool. GAU-5/A should be marked: (Colt AR-15 with logo) PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT. SMG GAU-5/A 5.56 MM SERIAL903843 Like this: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/13082/GAU-5A_jpg-1862711.JPG I'd go ahead and do the GAU.-5/A/A (full fence) as well, so you'll have the whole set. (Colt AR-15 with logo) PROPERTY OF U.S. GOVT. GAU.-5/A/A CAL. 5.56 MM. 9089324 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/121479/85791369-BE3C-4BF4-8C11-42E917A82B5A_jpe-1555454.JPG Can someone else help with serial numbers? Looks like everything XM177 through XM177E2 and GAU.-5/A/A should fall within 900000 through 909999 if I'm reading this right. https://imgur.com/WzRKHQy.jpg A known GX-5857 was SERIAL 014657 (which indicates it was part of the S.A.W.S. contract, and that makes sense.) Where the list reads "Model 03" and "Model 04" they're referring to the Model 603 (XM16E1 and M16A1) for the US Army, and Model 604 (XM16 and M16) for the USAF and USN. From this thread (some pics remain): https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Photos-of-Commando-GAU-XM177E2-magwells-and-serial-numbers/123-755570/ View Quote This might help on serial numbers. It appears there are serial number blocks for the various carbines within the 900000 - 909999 range. US Property marked Govt. Carbines Serial Nos. 900,000 through 909,999 Years 1966-1970 (41 Identified Original Carbines) Serial Nos. with V or T are Colt Re-issue Carbines. Colt used the same Serial Nos. as the original carbines but added a V to the XM177E2s and a T to the GAU 5/A/A. Serial No.Carbine Roll Mark 900077 Commando 900580 Commando 901480 Commando 901635 Commando 902855 Commando 902,855 - 900,000 = 2,855 carbines (Block Gap Serial Nos. 902856 – 903091 237 carbines) 903092 GAU – 5A 903438 GAU – 5A 903510 GAU – 5A 903605 GAU – 5A 903842 GAU – 5A 904536 GAU – 5A 904536 – 903092 = 1,444 carbines (Block Gap Serial Nos. 904537 – 905058 521 carbines) 905059V XM177E2 905125V XM177E2 905178V XM177E2 905209V XM177E2 905217V XM177E2 905237V XM177E2 905241V XM177E2 905258V XM177E2 905288V XM177E2 905314V XM177E2 905380V XM177E2 905409 XM177E2 905442V XM177E2 (NRA Article) 905513V XM177E2 905518V XM177E2 905570V XM177E2 905639V XM177E2 905651V XM177E2 905654V XM177E2 905674V XM177E2 905701V XM177E2 905745 XM177E2 905803V XM177E2 905824V XM177E2 905826V XM177E2 905833V XM177E2 905840V XM177E2 905847V XM177E2 905850V XM177E2 905872V XM177E2 905880V XM177E2 905886V XM177E2 905917V XM177E2 905935 XM177E2 905936V XM177E2 906077 XM177E2 906200 XM177E2 906482 XM177E2 906541 XM177E2 906667V XM177E2 906982 XM177E2 906738 XM177E2 906878 XM177E2 906982 XM177E2 907072 XM177E2 907149 XM177E2 907376 XM177E2 907385 XM177E2 907388 XM177E2 907418 XM177E2 907452 XM177E2 907617 XM177E2 907620 XM177E2 907638 XM177E2 907748 XM177E2 907846 XM177E2 907994 XM177E2 907999 XM177E2 908061 XM177E2 908063 XM177E2 908166 XM177E2 908202 XM177E2 908486 XM177E2 908593 XM177E2 908593 – 905059 = 3,534 carbines (Block Gap Serial Nos. 908594 – 908900 307 carbines) 9089XX GAU – 5A/A 908915T GAU – 5A/A 908947T GAU – 5A/A 908949T GAU – 5A/A 908953T GAU – 5A/A 908958T GAU – 5A/A 908964T GAU – 5A/A 909002T GAU – 5A/A 909005T GAU – 5A/A 909008T GAU – 5A/A 909011T GAU – 5A/A 909015T GAU – 5A/A 909016T GAU – 5A/A 909023T GAU – 5A/A 909028T GAU – 5A/A 909044T GAU – 5A/A 909046T GAU – 5A/A 909058T GAU – 5A/A 909060 GAU – 5A/A 909074T GAU – 5A/A 909077T GAU – 5A/A 909078T GAU – 5A/A 909095T GAU – 5A/A 909098T GAU – 5A/A 909106T GAU – 5A/A 909108T GAU – 5A/A 909110T GAU – 5A/A 909126T GAU – 5A/A 909132T GAU – 5A/A 909140T GAU – 5A/A 909145T GAU – 5A/A 909152T GAU – 5A/A 909185T GAU – 5A/A (Note: Did not have a “T” after the serial number but was a re-issue from Colt.) 909197T GAU – 5A/A 909257T GAU – 5A/A 909266T GAU – 5A/A 909267T GAU – 5A/A 909276T GAU – 5A/A 909920T GAU – 5A/A 909936T GAU – 5A/A 909937T GAU – 5A/A 909947T GAU – 5A/A 909948T GAU – 5A/A 909,948 – 908900 = 1,048 carbines |
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[#3]
It's too bad that the issue with too many variances with the same numbers will prevent some models from having correct serial numbers. Of course, the numbers are very small per model, which could be an issue with making larger numbers if the demand is there for them.
With the GAU-5A/A there is also the option of doing a different range than the 908900-909999 range observed. Seems like some were made later in a different serial number range (4080000s): Attached File |
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[#4]
Quoted: Can someone else help with serial numbers? Looks like everything XM177 through XM177E2 and GAU.-5/A/A should fall within 900000 through 909999 if I'm reading this right. https://imgur.com/WzRKHQy.jpg View Quote |
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[#5]
All,
I just wanted to give a re-cap and answer some of the questions that have been asked in this thread. We are working on making the lower clone correct in the full fence, partial fence area. These lowers are going under the Harrington and Richardson line of lowers. We are going to make the Model, Caliber, Serial etc. as close to the original as we have photos of each. They will have the "Property of U.S...." on them as well. Here is a re-cap of the variances that we have submitted. Thank you, Josiah SMG GAU-5/A 5.56 MM SERIAL0900000 XM 16 E1 CAL. 5.56 MM. SERIAL600000 GX-5857 CAL. 5.56 MM. SERIAL010000 COMMANDO CAL. 5.56 MM. SERIAL900000 XM177E2 CAL. 5.56 MM. SERIAL900000 |
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[#6]
Quoted: All, I just wanted to give a re-cap and answer some of the questions that have been asked in this thread. We are working on making the lower clone correct in the full fence, partial fence area... Thank you, Josiah View Quote Will your retro lower receivers be lacking the modern (A2 and forward) reinforcements to the pivot pin lugs and receiver extension hoop? These are features which would be very beneficial to all reproductions of retro lower receivers, and they are incorporated on the NDS and Brownells retro lowers. The non-reinforced lugs/hoop contours are the same on all early pattern lowers; it only changed with the advent of the A2 variant. |
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[#7]
Quoted: Will your retro lower receivers be lacking the modern (A2 and forward) reinforcements to the pivot pin lugs and receiver extension hoop? These are features which would be very beneficial to all reproductions of retro lower receivers, and they are incorporated on the NDS and Brownells retro lowers. The non-reinforced lugs/hoop contours are the same on all early pattern lowers; it only changed with the advent of the A2 variant. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: All, I just wanted to give a re-cap and answer some of the questions that have been asked in this thread. We are working on making the lower clone correct in the full fence, partial fence area... Thank you, Josiah Will your retro lower receivers be lacking the modern (A2 and forward) reinforcements to the pivot pin lugs and receiver extension hoop? These are features which would be very beneficial to all reproductions of retro lower receivers, and they are incorporated on the NDS and Brownells retro lowers. The non-reinforced lugs/hoop contours are the same on all early pattern lowers; it only changed with the advent of the A2 variant. Nodak Spud also has raw forgings that could be of use... |
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[#8]
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[#9]
Quoted: This might help on serial numbers. It appears there are serial number blocks for the various carbines within the 900000 - 909999 range. US Property marked Govt. Carbines Serial Nos. 900,000 through 909,999 Years 1966-1970 (41 Identified Original Carbines) Serial Nos. with V or T are Colt Re-issue Carbines. Colt used the same Serial Nos. as the original carbines but added a V to the XM177E2s and a T to the GAU 5/A/A. Serial No.Carbine Roll Mark 900077 Commando 900580 Commando 901480 Commando 901635 Commando 902855 Commando 902,855 - 900,000 = 2,855 carbines (Block Gap Serial Nos. 902856 – 903091 237 carbines) 903092 GAU – 5A 903438 GAU – 5A 903510 GAU – 5A 903605 GAU – 5A 903842 GAU – 5A 904536 GAU – 5A 904536 – 903092 = 1,444 carbines (Block Gap Serial Nos. 904537 – 905058 521 carbines) 905059V XM177E2 905125V XM177E2 905178V XM177E2 905209V XM177E2 905217V XM177E2 905237V XM177E2 905241V XM177E2 905258V XM177E2 905288V XM177E2 905314V XM177E2 905380V XM177E2 905409 XM177E2 905442V XM177E2 (NRA Article) 905513V XM177E2 905518V XM177E2 905570V XM177E2 905639V XM177E2 905651V XM177E2 905654V XM177E2 905674V XM177E2 905701V XM177E2 905745 XM177E2 905803V XM177E2 905824V XM177E2 905826V XM177E2 905833V XM177E2 905840V XM177E2 905847V XM177E2 905850V XM177E2 905872V XM177E2 905880V XM177E2 905886V XM177E2 905917V XM177E2 905935 XM177E2 905936V XM177E2 906077 XM177E2 906200 XM177E2 906482 XM177E2 906541 XM177E2 906667V XM177E2 906982 XM177E2 906738 XM177E2 906878 XM177E2 906982 XM177E2 907072 XM177E2 907149 XM177E2 907376 XM177E2 907385 XM177E2 907388 XM177E2 907418 XM177E2 907452 XM177E2 907617 XM177E2 907620 XM177E2 907638 XM177E2 907748 XM177E2 907846 XM177E2 907994 XM177E2 907999 XM177E2 908061 XM177E2 908063 XM177E2 908166 XM177E2 908202 XM177E2 908486 XM177E2 908593 XM177E2 908593 – 905059 = 3,534 carbines (Block Gap Serial Nos. 908594 – 908900 307 carbines) 9089XX GAU – 5A/A 908915T GAU – 5A/A 908947T GAU – 5A/A 908949T GAU – 5A/A 908953T GAU – 5A/A 908958T GAU – 5A/A 908964T GAU – 5A/A 909002T GAU – 5A/A 909005T GAU – 5A/A 909008T GAU – 5A/A 909011T GAU – 5A/A 909015T GAU – 5A/A 909016T GAU – 5A/A 909023T GAU – 5A/A 909028T GAU – 5A/A 909044T GAU – 5A/A 909046T GAU – 5A/A 909058T GAU – 5A/A 909060 GAU – 5A/A 909074T GAU – 5A/A 909077T GAU – 5A/A 909078T GAU – 5A/A 909095T GAU – 5A/A 909098T GAU – 5A/A 909106T GAU – 5A/A 909108T GAU – 5A/A 909110T GAU – 5A/A 909126T GAU – 5A/A 909132T GAU – 5A/A 909140T GAU – 5A/A 909145T GAU – 5A/A 909152T GAU – 5A/A 909185T GAU – 5A/A (Note: Did not have a “T” after the serial number but was a re-issue from Colt.) 909197T GAU – 5A/A 909257T GAU – 5A/A 909266T GAU – 5A/A 909267T GAU – 5A/A 909276T GAU – 5A/A 909920T GAU – 5A/A 909936T GAU – 5A/A 909937T GAU – 5A/A 909947T GAU – 5A/A 909948T GAU – 5A/A 909,948 – 908900 = 1,048 carbines View Quote Interesting, thanks for posting this Do you happen to know when mine was made? Attached File https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Colt-AR-15-XM177E2-original/123-743671/ |
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[#10]
Quoted: Will your retro lower receivers be lacking the modern (A2 and forward) reinforcements to the pivot pin lugs and receiver extension hoop? These are features which would be very beneficial to all reproductions of retro lower receivers, and they are incorporated on the NDS and Brownells retro lowers. The non-reinforced lugs/hoop contours are the same on all early pattern lowers; it only changed with the advent of the A2 variant. View Quote I am sure they will be non-reinforced as we are looking to do the as closely as possible. Thank you, Josiah |
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[#11]
Quoted: Do you happen to know when mine was made? View Quote I think Colt's online database is being weird: https://www.colt.com/serial-lookup Attached File Edit: Nope, it just doesn't find it there. The earliest XM177E2 was April 1967. (Confirmed in The Black Rifle as well.) |
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[#12]
Quoted: I am sure they will be non-reinforced as we are looking to do the as closely as possible. Thank you, Josiah View Quote This is excellent news! I’m looking forward to these lower receivers, and I’m sure that many others are as well. I hope that these will be great sellers for Palmetto State Armory. |
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[#13]
Quoted: Interesting, thanks for posting this Do you happen to know when mine was made? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191008/8b9b8a087682e58218442542e3ae8728.jpg https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/390738/74B0C468-61DB-4B48-976A-3F39A82CF272_jpeg-1100380.JPG https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Colt-AR-15-XM177E2-original/123-743671/ View Quote The first order of 510 XM177E2s was completed by the end of 1967 and there were approximately 3,000 XMs manufactured after the first order. The serial number of your XM (906482) is somewhere in the middle of the serial number block for XM177E2s indicating that is was in a subsequent order by the government. Your serial number is in my list of serial numbers for XM177E2s. Based on information that I have read, the last of the XM177E2s were delivered sometime in the latter part of 1970 or possibly early 1971. My best guess estimate for your XM is that it was manufactured sometime between 1968 and 1969. Colt does not really provide information on rifles manufactured for the government, but it was helpful when they indicated that they were using the original serial numbers in their production of the re-issues which I found to be consistent with the serial numbers of original XM177E2s that I had located. When I started putting this list of serial numbers in sequential order along with their roll-mark designations, I found there were definite serial number blocks for each of the different carbine models in the 900,000 to 909,999 serial number range. Hope this helps. |
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[#14]
Quoted: The first order of 510 XM177E2s was completed by the end of 1967 and there were approximately 3,000 XMs manufactured after the first order. The serial number of your XM (906482) is somewhere in the middle of the serial number block for XM177E2s indicating that is was in a subsequent order by the government. Your serial number is in my list of serial numbers for XM177E2s. Based on information that I have read, the last of the XM177E2s were delivered sometime in the latter part of 1970 or possibly early 1971. My best guess estimate for your XM is that it was manufactured sometime between 1968 and 1969. Colt does not really provide information on rifles manufactured for the government, but it was helpful when they indicated that they were using the original serial numbers in their production of the re-issues which I found to be consistent with the serial numbers of original XM177E2s that I had located. When I started putting this list of serial numbers in sequential order along with their roll-mark designations, I found there were definite serial number blocks for each of the different carbine models in the 900,000 to 909,999 serial number range. Hope this helps. View Quote It does help, thank you very much |
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[#15]
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[#16]
Hey Josiah,
I’m more than thrilled that you’re taking on this retro project and “I” fully understand that there are limitations on what you can do to provide this type of lower receivers to the market and the logistics of making this happen. The retro crowd is a very interesting group of people... With each group having a different level of the actual details desired... Some will spend major dollars for original parts for the closest thing to the original. Others, which is the group I fail in, simply want something that looks, as close as possible to real thing... Without using an A4/M4 lower or a C7 upper receivers for their clone builds. I just hope that you will not be scared off from this project with all the requests. I own several of your M4 marked receivers and I’m very happy with them and their markings. Currently, I’m sitting on several NDS retro lower receivers, but, I’m holding off from using them since I know... Without question, I’ll be far more pleased with your line of retro receivers!! Also, since this retro group is watching this, with great interest, is there anyway of offering a list for us to get onto PRIOR to them being offered to everybody else? Speaking for myself, and myself only, “I” wouldn’t mind pre-paying to lock myself into these receivers!! If not, that’s cool. Just happy that you’re moving forward with this project!!! |
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[#17]
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[#18]
The thing about this crowd is that now matter how close you get to an original item, someone will come along and raise the bar.
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[#19]
Quoted: The thing about this crowd is that now matter how close you get to an original item, someone will come along and raise the bar. View Quote The little one-man shops may do better, but they aren't widely known, and couldn't push out enough production if they were. Unless somebody in development/pre-production really drops the ball, these will likely be close enough for 98% of retro consumers. I'm excited about it, and really appreciate the effort PSA is putting into it. |
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[#20]
I am surprised to hear that PSA is doing this. These would have, relatively, limited appeal to the overall AR market in what we called the salad days. To pursue this now given everything going on? Especially if the proper profile/variable fencing is being produced, not just retro "rollmarks". I am excited to see how this comes out. Also wondering what pricing is going to look like.
I wonder what else we could push for? Poop Flinging LeMay ? |
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[#22]
Quoted: . View Quote US Ordnance spent $165,000 on 8 roll stamps for colt and the machinery to do them. Every company making AR’s has dropped roll stamping, including Colt. The products I sell are passion projects, no company in their right mind could justify investing in a roll mark machine/dies to make a small run of receivers. I appreciate you! PallemettoState: Call Harlan or Mike w/Nodak, you have to buy A1 forgings 1000 at a time. If you can’t commit to that, call Tony @ Precison Reflex. They are $100 a blank in bulk vs $130 a blank. Nodaks are very high quality for the record. I would do them all black, if you do Grey they will never be the right color for everyone and you will have a higher # of blems. If there is anything I can help with let me know. I sent you by PM the correct Laser font for the Vietnam stuff. |
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[#23]
Quoted: Also, since this retro group is watching this, with great interest, is there anyway of offering a list for us to get onto PRIOR to them being offered to everybody else? Speaking for myself, and myself only, “I” wouldn’t mind pre-paying to lock myself into these receivers!! If not, that’s cool. Just happy that you’re moving forward with this project!!! View Quote +1 for sure! |
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[#25]
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[#27]
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[#28]
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[#29]
Josiah,
As one of your sister companies is a forge house, will new XM and A1 forging dies be made? Just curious. Maybe you could buy Karl Lewis’ A1 forging die? |
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[#30]
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[#32]
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[#34]
Quoted: This is relevant to my interests... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/180161/IMG_4480_zps712b17d5_jpg-1915560.JPG View Quote Sweet carbine! One of the last projects I'm waiting to do (come on Brownell's! Make more retro barrels!). I need an XM177E1 to go with the E2 upper! |
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[#35]
Would it be possible to build an upper with a
10 or 12 inch barrel, then permanently affix a longer fake moderator to it? Not wanting to deal with SBR requirements/paperwork |
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[#36]
Quoted: Would it be possible to build an upper with a 10 or 12 inch barrel, then permanently affix a longer fake moderator to it? Not wanting to deal with SBR requirements/paperwork View Quote Yes, of course. As long as you get over the 16" barrel length mark with the pinned/welded moderator. I used a 12.7" barrel on my XM177E2 build, and had ADCO do the pin/weld work. |
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[#37]
So following this!!!
Will PSA also be coming out with correct profile 11.5" barrels to go along with the XM177E2 lowers? Maybe even complete uppers? |
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[#38]
Quoted: Would it be possible to build an upper with a 10 or 12 inch barrel, then permanently affix a longer fake moderator to it? Not wanting to deal with SBR requirements/paperwork View Quote I used an original 11.5” XM177E2 barrel with a 4.8” moderator. I also used a .25” spacer behind the grenade ring. The skirt of the grenade ring covers up the spacer pretty well. The moderator is pinned and welded. The barrel length is exactly 16 inches with the moderator. |
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[#39]
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[#41]
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[#42]
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[#43]
Hey PSA, any updates on these receivers... I know it will be awhile before they hit the street, but I’m sure many of us would appreciate a basic/generalized update on this project.
Also, any chance of prepaying for these receivers BEFORE they’re offered to the general public? Thanks!! |
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[#44]
Quoted: Hey PSA, any updates on these receivers... I know it will be awhile before they hit the street, but I’m sure many of us would appreciate a basic/generalized update on this project. Also, any chance of prepaying for these receivers BEFORE they’re offered to the general public? Thanks!! View Quote No update as of yet! We do not plan on doing any pre-orders at this time. I will update as I can! Thank you, Josiah |
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[#46]
I hope they will all be in XM Gray finish and not black? I would also love to see some of your A2 lowers in Colt Gray as well.
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[#47]
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[#48]
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[#49]
If you commit to this, please please do something about QC in your barrel department.
Its becoming common theme on Facebook and the interwebs to see a psa fsb barrel with either the fsb canted left (from behind), or the feed ramps misaligned (counter clockwise). If you guys could step up qc you'd be a great thing for the community with your pricing. |
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[#50]
Quoted: If you commit to this, please please do something about QC in your barrel department. Its becoming common theme on Facebook and the interwebs to see a psa fsb barrel with either the fsb canted left (from behind), or the feed ramps misaligned (counter clockwise). If you guys could step up qc you'd be a great thing for the community with your pricing. View Quote I am wondering if this is based on the assembly tool. I found this exact issue to be a real problem with my own builds, concerning torquing to spec, or slightly over spec, using a Geissele reaction rod. The design is such that while the reaction rod holds the barrel at the extension, the upper receiver is free to rotate and press against the barrel pin under torque. The upper being aluminum against a steel pin, torquing can cause an indentation of the upper receiver at the threads. If I was not careful, my pinned front sight block was canted. I stopped using the reaction rod and switched to the Midwest Industries Upper Receiver Rod. This tool has a top bar which runs the length of the rod, so the full run of the inside of the upper receiver at the charging handle groove. It does not allow the upper receiver to rotate freely under torque, thus not allowing the barrel pin to indent or damage the aluminum threads of the upper reciever. |
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