Just received an email from them. They claim the [?5D Tactical?] jig design was stolen from them.

As a consumer, I see the competition as a good thing.  Intercompany battles over intellectual rights usually doesn't negatively affect consumers.  As long as they have enough focus on quality and customers, we win.

I agree, but it is always fun to watch how corporate pissing matches end up

Well, I’ll be testing their support to see if I can get a replacement for my top plate on my original Modulus jig.

FWIW, I don’t like the proprietary bit designs.

I would say that if 2 companies are putting basically the same bit out, it is not proprietary and we have had at least one user that bought bits of ebay and was able to use them in a 5-D holder, there is really nothing that is all that proprietary these days.

That’s interesting. I didn’t realize there were already third party sources. I stacked deep with Modulus HD jigs after they went dark. They used to participate heavily here. Hopefully that resumes too.

Does not surprise me at all, when you are going to battle in any industry, often times the lawyers get involved and it takes time to come to market with another product.  It will be interesting to see how this all fleshes out...

It's odd. Their industry user account appears to be expired and locked but they specifically mention arfcom when offering a promo discount for reviews.

Did they go dark while pursuing the alleged intellectual property theft? Imo, maybe the identical jig comes from a resolution to some arbitration or something.

@modulusarms

I have no inside information about the situation between Modulus and 5D, but working for a company that aggressively protects its intellectual property (medical device mfg) I can comment that if a former employee of Modulus created a new design while still working at modulus, then Modulus would have a claim for intellectual property, whether he used Modulus equipment or not to design it.  That is when the lawyers step in.  Once again, I don't know the specifics of this situation, but they look to be spitting images of each other.  I am sure more information will leak out about this.

I have the previous Modulus jig, and have used it successfully numerous times. Is this new jig (or it's apparent twin, the 5-D Tactical jig) really that much better? How so?

The reviews say it is faster and easier with less reconfiguration required, especially compared the the original Modulus jig.  The HD was a step up in that regard too, and the 5D is incrementally better still.

If you already have that jig and aren’t going to cut a bunch more lowers, the upgrade probably isn’t worth it.

Thanks. I should have specified that I have the HD jig. I'll probably cut 12 or 15 more lowers, but not at all at one timeframe. It's an every 4 or 6 months sort of project for me.

Its always interesting as to who owns certain patents. When they were submitted and other particulars. One needs to dive into the names associated with the patent also.  Sometimes you can see timelines of splits in companies. When company B formed from a rift in A.

I have worked for a company that stated in print, anything I designed(thought up) or devised, while in their employ was their property.

I'm in the market for a Jig, and had narrowed down the selection to 5D & Modulus Arms. I sent an email Friday to Modulus Arms, asking for some clarification on who they are, location/address, phone number, some info on being out of business last year/now back in business, and the reason for the similarity in design compared to 5D. I haven't heard anything back so far.

I called 5D today, as they provide a phone number, address, AND EVEN directions on which door to use if you want to visit in person. Phone was answered within 2 rings, all questions answered concisely, and even shed some light on relation to Modulus Arms (5D owner used to work at modulus).

I know who I will be buying from!

Modulus made a good jig, I have used one to do quite a few lowers, they had this style of jig before anybody else did and were the darlings of the dance for a while, 5D is just an updated one that also does a great job and everybody that bought one, is quite happy with it.

Are they different enough to not be able to pursue legal action? The corners on the 5d jig are more square while modulus arms looks more round. The graduations on modulus look to be about half depth of 5d.
As for the mill bit, I've had more success with a 4 flute bit bought for $13 locally from a welding/machine shop.

We will probably never know, there seems to be a lot the same on the two jigs and beings one of the former employees of Modulus is mixed up in the 5D I would suspect far more behind the scenes went on that what we need to know.

Modulus got good reviews on their old jig and they are getting good reviews on their new one, 5D gets good reviews on theirs as well, it is nice to be at a time that companies are making products that are easy to use and allows the general layman to produce good quality 80% lower receivers.

And that would be why modulus is miffed. Former employee goes OFP with a design they were working on and gets to market sooner.

And that folks is why you write a do not compete clause into a contract.

So I finally got a (vague half-ass) response from Modulus today:

"Thank you for your email about the sales tax issue you experienced attempting to place an order. Our I.T. team is working with our shopping cart provider to determine why the system attempted to charge you sales tax. That definitely should not be happening. You can place your order, and if sales tax is charged to your card on the final checkout, please let us know and we will issue a refund for the tax plus an extra 10% discount for the inconvenience. Please forward a copy of this email to support along with your order number in the event you are charged sales tax that does not apply to your order.

You can rest assured that Modulus Arms will continue to offer the very best quality products at very competitive prices. In order to maintain the lowest prices possible, and the best value for our customers, customer service is done by email.

Thank you for your time to contact us and for considering us for your future purchases.

Best regards,
Modulus Arms Support"

Nothing regarding my questions about location, phone number, history, previous "out-of-business" status; only the stupid tax charge upon check-out. Again, this is why I will be going with 5D.

I prefer the Modulus design better, and I would have purchased them, but too much smoke and mirrors regarding their business for me to fork-over my cash to them. What are they hiding?

Awe I see, it is black helicopter time.

I have ordered a lot of stuff from them over the time they were taking orders before and have no complaints about anything I purchased from them, it really does not matter which one you purchase, neither company will come after you for copyright issues as that is between them.

I do understand taking a day or two to get back as well as address the stand out issue which of course would be money out of my pocket, I have ran a small business for a long time now in a couple of different industries from my home shop and I am not equipped to take visitors stopping by most of the time, hell I don't even sell on Craigslist and have them come to my home, I always meet them somewhere.

Modulus as well as 5D are good companies and many of us have had dealings with both of them, I don't quite understand the suspension?

I did notice they have no information listed on their domain registration which is normal, I have all of my gun related domains in private mode as well, saves a lot of harassment from anti gun people

I won't quote any sources, just putting this info out there for people to know.
Modulus Arms was puut out of business by 80% arms due to patent infringement. 5D tactical has a previous employee from 80% arms who designed the original 5D jig, and the 5D jig pro. 80% arms copied some features of the original 5D jig and released the 80% arms Gen 2. 5D came out with the Pro shortly after, which broke all the molds and blows everything away in every aspect of the 80% market. Word behind closed doors is that 80% arms now owns the modulus name and has made an almost blatant direct copy of the 5D jig pro. 80% arms owner attempted a smear campaign against 5D way back when they hit the market, obviously because he was upset his engineer left to start his own business partnership (5D). In my opinion, 5D is the innovative company that has offered the best design in jigs and the other guys are just trying to make their money before the lawyers go to work.

I also have the Modulus HD jig and I've completed several lowers w/o issue.  I can't imagine why I would want to buy a new jig even if the 5-D or the newer jig was slightly better.  I had the original Modulus jig and it worked fine, but was slower to switch around and I wanted the heavy dutier construction of the HD jig.  I passed my old one along to someone else who successfully completed quite a few lowers with it, so it isn't like it went to waste or anything.

With the way I machine most of my lowers the Modulus works better than the 5D, if you are doing it on a mill the Modulus is better to set up and actually use.  Many here are doing them with routers, and I have done two of them that way and the 5D works better with the router, it all depends on what equipment you have and what you are comfortable with.  For most people, I would say the 5D is probably the best way to go and will end up costing you less.

Well, the Modulus HD jig was a big enough improvement over the original that I thought it was worth upgrading since I planned to mill several lowers.  I'm just not convinced that the 5D or the Modulus version of that is a big enough upgrade over the HD jig I currently have to justify upgrading again.  Especially since I've probably done most of the lowers I plan on doing any time soon.  As I said, I passed my original Modulus jig on to someone else who has since used it to mill several lowers.  I don't consider it a mistake, because at the time I bought the original it was pretty much the best one available.  And it is still capable of making good lowers, just not as quickly as the HD.

I actually enjoy my time when I am doing a lower, I don't quite understand why everybody wants to be in a hurry these days?