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Posted: 1/13/2021 4:50:13 PM EST
I have a PA 1-6x.  

If I buy a 1-8x or 1-10x of a similar quality (PA or SF) am I losing anything at max magnification?  Do you lose any low light capability? Clarity?

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:10:08 PM EST
You lose light and the eye box gets tighter.  If you want more than 6x, move up to a 2-10, or similar, with a larger objective, IMO
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:20:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By s4s4u:
You lose light and the eye box gets tighter.  If you want more than 6x, move up to a 2-10, or similar, with a larger objective, IMO
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This.  I prefer a 1-6x for a carbine/rifle I reasonably expect to run out to 600 yards. Ran a 1-8 in 3-Gun for a couple of years and went back to a 1-6x for eyebox, FOV and speed.  I don’t miss the additional mag at all.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 5:37:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 5:37:38 PM EST by DonofKalifornia]
Originally Posted By NationalUXO:
I have a PA 1-6x.  

If I buy a 1-8x or 1-10x of a similar quality (PA or SF) am I losing anything at max magnification?  Do you lose any low light capability? Clarity?

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If you want to spend money or are looking for better/clear views at a distance upgrade to a better scope like a 1-6 Razor.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 7:47:50 PM EST
If you go to a higher end LPVO like the Vortex Razor 1-10x or Nightforce ATACR 1-8x, then you'll actually gain something.

Better glass, stronger and more precise construction, tighter tolerances, and better parts & material improve several aspects.

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 8:08:52 PM EST
You all pretty much said what I was thinking.  1-6x it is for this carbine.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 9:02:45 PM EST
Good glass at 6x is going to be more functional than low quality glass at 10x.

I won't even touch 1-8 or 1-10 LPVO's. Even with good glass the exit pupil and lack of light gathering makes them suck in my opinion.

A 1-10x30 leaves 3mm of exit pupil. So go find a straw and look down it. Now move your head around while trying to maintain view through the straw. That straw is MORE forgiving than a 1-10 on head placement.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 9:57:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DonofKalifornia:


If you want to spend money or are looking for better/clear views at a distance upgrade to a better scope like a 1-6 Razor.
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This would be more of a net gain in terms of performance than a similar quality 1-8x.
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 5:34:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By NationalUXO:
I have a PA 1-6x.  

If I buy a 1-8x or 1-10x of a similar quality (PA or SF) am I losing anything at max magnification?  Do you lose any low light capability? Clarity?

View Quote


Weight... you are going to add weight.

Max magnification... you can now see the lack of clarity that already existed. FFP is less clear and bright than RFP/SFP for same money. When exit pupil drops below 4mm you will notice a decrease in low light performance. The lower the exit pupil the lower the performance. As you increase magnification you compress your depth of field. Targets very close or very far relative to focus distance are less focused. Larger objectives enhance the effect, small objectives decrease it.
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 12:57:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DevL:

Max magnification... you can now see the lack of clarity that already existed.

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lol this is so true it hurts
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 1:49:00 PM EST
Recently bought a Kahles K16i SM1. I like it a lot, but after a few trips to the range, I wish I would have just bought Vortex 1-10s. I stayed 1-6 because my Meopta Optika6 and Bushnell Elite 1-6.5 were 30mm so my mounts worked. Is the K16i better than those two optics, yes, but after looking through the Gen III 1-10, I think it’s a real game changer. Your patrol carbine and Recce rifle can be one and the same with a 1-10. I don’t think an expensive  1-8 is worth anything over a good 1-6 though.
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 2:06:28 PM EST
They get dark.

8x takes great glass in a 1-8x and your view can dim when you have a 24mm objective lens.  

If you want more than 6x you really need a larger objective lens. An 8x24 will give you a 3mm exit pupil.   You don’t want that.
Link Posted: 1/19/2021 3:54:45 PM EST
In addition to light gathering, you also loos FOV as magnification increases which is why a well designed FFP reticle has the benefit of working at any magnification level. If you need more light at dusk run it 4x-6x, need to see details at distance crank it down to 8x-10x.
Link Posted: 1/20/2021 8:28:26 PM EST
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Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Good glass at 6x is going to be more functional than low quality glass at 10x.

I won't even touch 1-8 or 1-10 LPVO's. Even with good glass the exit pupil and lack of light gathering makes them suck in my opinion.

A 1-10x30 leaves 3mm of exit pupil. So go find a straw and look down it. Now move your head around while trying to maintain view through the straw. That straw is MORE forgiving than a 1-10 on head placement.
View Quote

You can always dial them back to 6x, but on a sunny day you have another 2x to play with.
Link Posted: 1/20/2021 8:32:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By WantsAnRRA:
Recently bought a Kahles K16i SM1. I like it a lot, but after a few trips to the range, I wish I would have just bought Vortex 1-10s. I stayed 1-6 because my Meopta Optika6 and Bushnell Elite 1-6.5 were 30mm so my mounts worked. Is the K16i better than those two optics, yes, but after looking through the Gen III 1-10, I think it’s a real game changer. Your patrol carbine and Recce rifle can be one and the same with a 1-10. I don’t think an expensive  1-8 is worth anything over a good 1-6 though.
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With my nx8, I can see bullet holes at 100 yards. Same with my k16i I used to have. I tend to agree with you that a nice 1-6 is similar in some regard to a good 1-8, but I'd presume a SB or k18i might allow a bit more resolution. My main motivators for the nx8 are 1x performance, bombproof, and footprint. I find the 8x very usable too, but a super clear 6x will easily give it a run for its money, and may even win on an emotional note because clarity is sexy. The ED lens in the nx8 helps and makes possible decent 8x performance, but it's not on par with the full ED and larger assembly in some other optics with 34mm or longer main tubes. It is, however, optically superior for clarity to the old nxs1-4 that killed a lotta bad guys in bad places.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:03:53 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JohnDough:
You can always dial them back to 6x, but on a sunny day you have another 2x to play with.
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I'm with you. I have a Razor Gen3, and all these "drawbacks" are worked around by simply ratcheting your magnification down if required.

The only real drawback is that you get a 5.5 MOA circle on 1x rather than a half MOA fiber optic aiming point, which tends to bias you towards pushing the magnification up sooner on smaller targets.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 7:50:52 AM EST
My Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8 is pretty useless above 6 power.  While the optical clarity is not that great even for a low end scope, the higher settings accentuate the poor glass.  I asked a Vortex Rep about this issue and the way I understood him is that you have to focus it at the lower powers and then focus again at the upper end.  Probably me, but I have never been able to get that to work.  Given the other issues with the scope that continue to persist after sending it back to Vortex.  I have replaced it with a Burris LPVO that works.  

Link Posted: 1/21/2021 9:27:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/21/2021 9:28:05 AM EST by MS556]
Originally Posted By NationalUXO:
I have a PA 1-6x.  

If I buy a 1-8x or 1-10x of a similar quality (PA or SF) am I losing anything at max magnification?  Do you lose any low light capability? Clarity?

View Quote


Yes, at 10x low light performance will suck because exit pupil size (objective lens size divided by magnification) will be smaller than the size of your own retina, thus not activating all the rods and cones (light sensors) in your eye.  Image will darken, lose both contrast and color.

Also, Chinese glass has lower resolving power (ability to see fine detail at distance).  As power goes up, these defects become more obvious.

Now, if you must do this, just use high power only in good light and dial back to 6x or so in low light.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 9:36:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By MTShells59:
My Vortex Strike Eagle 1-8 is pretty useless above 6 power.  While the optical clarity is not that great even for a low end scope, the higher settings accentuate the poor glass.  I asked a Vortex Rep about this issue and the way I understood him is that you have to focus it at the lower powers and then focus again at the upper end.  Probably me, but I have never been able to get that to work.  Given the other issues with the scope that continue to persist after sending it back to Vortex.  I have replaced it with a Burris LPVO that works.  

View Quote


The Burris RT-6 is probably the best budget LPVO.

If you want and more than 6x, get a scope with a larger objective lens, like a good 2-7x, 3-9x or similar and run a 45 degree offset mini reflex red dot in close, or use both eyes open Bindon Aiming Concept technique like they do with ACOGs.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 9:51:19 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JohnDough:

You can always dial them back to 6x, but on a sunny day you have another 2x to play with.
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Which then throws any bullet drop or ranging of the reticle off, assuming it's SFP like an LPVO should be.

Someone mentioned being able to see rounds on paper. That's actually a good call out about how glass quality can beat out magnification that anyone can test.
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:36:54 AM EST
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Originally Posted By MS556:


The Burris RT-6 is probably the best budget LPVO.

If you want and more than 6x, get a scope with a larger objective lens, like a good 2-7x, 3-9x or similar and run a 45 degree offset mini reflex red dot in close, or use both eyes open Bindon Aiming Concept technique like they do with ACOGs.
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This ^^^
Link Posted: 1/21/2021 10:38:05 AM EST
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Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Which then throws any bullet drop or ranging of the reticle off, assuming it's SFP like an LPVO should be.
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SFP makes more sense up to about 1-6x. Once you hit 1-8 or 1-10, I do not think SFP is not the first choice anymore provided the reticle is daylight bright (ala the Razor gen3 or NX8).
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