Is it even possible to have a jack of all trade round for the AR?

I have a ton of 55 gr but am wanting to stock something that has a little more range combined with enough velocity to fragment and/or break apart.

I have seen great reviews on Sierra TMK and how (correct me if I am wrong) the 77 gr bullet will still properly break apart at velocities as low as 1900. Out of a 16 inch barrel that gets you a few hundred yards pretty easily. At the same time I would imagine a TMK would be terrible against light barriers, walls, glass, etc. I have read Barnes TSX is slightly better at barrier penetration but I am unsure of what velocities it needs to properly expand.

I am looking for a new ammo to stock up on but am looking for a decent all around round to start buying. I can get lost for days reading all the crap on the internet. Can any of you point me toward a good round?

I can't comment on fragmentation but the CBC/Magtech 77gr SMK is very accurate at a reasonable price. The IMI Razorcore is similar but a bit more expensive.

Love my TMKs, not too worried about their barrier performance. They’re horrifically devastating on tissue. They’re loaded hot, and give me 250m even from my Mk18, and closer to 350m from my 16”. Plus they’re very precise shooters, allowing you to place accurate hits to those ranges easily, and with the added benefit of less drop and wind deflection. In short, I think they’re about the best all around bullet out there. Only real shortcoming is if you’re worried about punching through cover or something, and that they don’t come cheap.

Were I you, I’d be looking at something like Gold Dots. They’re not as devastating on tissue (they still wreck house), but they’re nearly as precise and penetrate/hold together a lot better. They have an added benefit of being a fraction the price of BH TMKs. I think TMKs will always have my heart, but the GD is a pretty awesome round in its own merits. They’re not loaded as hot, and have lower BC, so they will not have the effective range of TMKs. Still, they will get you several times further than you’d ever be using them in any defensive scenario, and likely further than the vast majority of shots on game.

In your situation, which is a pretty common for many of us, a midweight bonded load is very intriguing.

I personally like the 62gr Fusion MSR for this because it has *close to* 5.56 velocities, which means it performs well out of a wide range of barrels.

I also have a bunch of 64gr Gold Dots that I picked up from PSA when they were $10/20. They're what I consider slow out of a short barrl but acceptable out of a 16". 64gr is gone but a similarly loaded 62gr Gold Dot replaced it.

There are plenty of other loads out there as well. Barnes TSX, MK318, Trophy bonded bear claw, etc.

I stock only 55 gr in many configurations. If my rounds won't do it, I reach for the SKS.

Best choices imo as well. 77g otm needs 2300fps to frag. That's under 200 yards from a 20". Gold Dots perform at 200 from a 10.5", and that's with .223 loads. Vastly superior imo. That round alone would be worth hand loading for.

Too bad m855a1 isn't for us pee-ons.

I remember reading on some of the tests referenced in the FAQ that the heavy solid copper barnes bullets lose petals up close. The 50gr TSX does best on barriers I believe but obviously it would not be good for long range since it would lose energy faster. Also they are very expensive vs other bullets so that is a con for stocking up.

Seems for close up and moderately long range the Gold Dots are really good. I wish they had them loaded to 5.56 velocities at a similar price. But they seem to test pretty well out of real short barrels as well as long, and the reports here say they are pretty accurate. They are also on sale often so that is good.

The FAQ says OTMs are good but do not do well on barriers so I guess those would be excluded as a 'do it all' bullet.

Thanks for the info so far. The reason for this inquiry is because I was going to be getting a 308 AR but decided the money would better spent on getting my first suppressor and aimpoint m5 for one of my rifles that just has iron sights. Better to finish off my rifles before buying a new one, plus stocking a new caliber isn’t in my budget at this time.

The Sierra TMK and super gold dots are looking good. Is there any information out there on minimum expansion velocity for the 75 gr gold dots and minimum velocity for fragmentation for the TMK?   Again, since I decided I am not stepping up to 308 I am wanting to find something that will perform out to a few hundred yards and in and be able to hunt deer with.

Any good ballistic calculator apps out there? I may buy a box of each and chrono them to see how they perform out of my barrels.

.63

I like Hornady Critical Defense in .223

YMMV

Different people have different standards of what constitutes ‘reliable’ or ‘effective’ frag/expansion. Having said that, the usual numbers discussed are about 1800fps for Gold Dot and 1900fps for TMK. I’ve taken deer with both, they didn’t seem to notice much difference. The TMK will do more damage, the Gold Dots will more consistently exit and likely damage less meat. Though I’ve only ever had one TMK not exit, and it went through the neck/spine lengthwise a bit so that wasn’t really fair to judge as it went through a lot of bone.

ETA: by all means you should gather your own data, I’m not trying to discourage that. But Eagle_19er did a great series of chrono tests featuring both loads (and many more) posted in this very subforum.

ETA2: Here

Thanks for the link. Looks like the 75 gr TMK gives the 556 abot 350 yards where it will likely properly fragment from 14.5 to 16 inch barrel. The 77 gr gold dot looks like it will give about 225-250 out of 14.5 to 16 barrels and still maintain the proper velocity for reliable expansion (there is bo hard data but from what I have seen 2000 FPS is about where bullet expansion starts for the 77gr gold dot).

One gives better performance at distance and the other gives decent performance at distance but better intermediate barrier performance.

Loaded ammunition for do-all purpose?

I would suggest the hornady 73 eld load.

Nasty stuff for HD. Massive expansion for varmints. Great b.c for long range plinking.
Enough weight and SD for hunt medium game out for a couple hundred yards.

Yes factory loaded ammo. I have a press and all the goodies to roll my own. I just have absolutely zero time for the foreseeable future to really pump out rounds so I want a factory load I can just buy in bulk and be done with it.

@BlueFalcon did a couple of gel test with 73 ELD from both a 10.5" & 20" barrel. Neither reached the FBI minimum 12" penetration.

https://youtu.be/5-Stn9D1zJE

It's hard to beat a 77gr OTM. It's accurate at distances and also gives you good fragmentation. Here's another @BlueFalcon video of 77gr RazorCore from a 10.5" barrel. Kind of gives you an idea how it will do at longer ranges. Also a great HD round for an AR pistol.

https://youtu.be/pzicw0Q8HRg

I decided I am going to order a few boxes of 77 gr TMK and 75 gr gold dot and see what can velocity and accuracy I am getting. Like I said, according to the chart provided in the link above. It looks like in good conditions 77 TMK looks to fragment out to 350, maybe even 400 with a 16 inch barrel. The gold dot 75 gr looks to carry enough velocity out to about 225-250 to expand if conditions are right but has the adds benefit of being able to punch a bit when it comes to barriers.

Personally, from what I have researched, the 75 gr gold dot is probably the the all around cartridge I am looking for. It has a couple hundred yard capability while still being good through intermediate barriers. If it shoots well I will likely go that route but I want to try the TMK and may grab a couple boxes to have on hand as well.

Lots of opinions out there of course!  My own - The IMI Razorcore 69 gr ammo.  Why that rather than 77 gr?  Two reasons:
1) Speed kills.  It's just a faster bullet at closer range.
2) It's cross platform stable.  A 1/9 twist barrel, of which there are still a great many out there, will not reliably stabilize a 77.

Yet 69 is still heavy enough to do well at distance.  I know a lot of serious match-winning competitors that use the 69 to 300 yards, because they like the faster bullet ballistics, it's inherently crazy-accurate, and at that distance, it's ballistic coefficient loss to the 77 is partially offset by it's higher velocity.  And 69 will still reach out to distance nicely - you can shoot it 600 yards all day.  69's supposedly also have a noticeably milder recoil, which can matter on follow-up shots.

But if I really had my druthers, I personally consider the 73gr Berger bullet the optimized do-all general purpose round.  Unfortunately, I'm not aware of factory loads for it.  So why that one?  Because it's the heaviest bullet listed as stabilized by a 1/9 twist BBL.  It's a scary-accurate bullet that's heavy enough to really shine at distance.  I've won 600 yard matches with that bullet.  Problem is, you have to reload, nobody makes factory ammo with it (that I know of).

All that said - if economy matters at all, the 55 FMJBT is kind of underappreciated.  It's actually a Hell of a round - especially out to 100 yards.  Wolf Gold is probably best bang for your buck right now.

Shoot some of each of the suggested loads. Barrels are funny. My SPR type will shoot MOA or better with Hornady T2 75 grain loads. 77 grain SMK are 2” plus from it. I haven’t tried the ELD or the TMK yet.

Heavy OTMs do it all. Very good terminal ballistics at close range and are very accurate for long shots.

My "cheap" lightweight carbine trunk gun shot 1 MOA 5 shot groups with a DD lightweight 16"CHF barrel with .750" gas block and shot  0.4" groups at 50 yard, both shot using Black Hills 5.56 77 TMK.

I promptly purchased a 500 round case. It hurt, costing me over $500 delivered, but I am glad I did it. Got a bunch of the 77 TMK and Lake City brass to reload too. 2700 FPS out of a 16" barrel is good to 400 yards, but not 400 meters. TMK do break up under 1900 FPS down to 1700 FPS, but1900 FPS is the ideal range where it essentially performs identically to the faster velocities. It does not really have reduced drop due to slow initial velocity at 400 yard range, but wind drift is cut a ton!

I found early lots of BH 5.56 77 TMK loaded to 2.240" OAL and were less accurate. Later lots ran 2.250" OAL and were more accurate, at least in my guns.

Mk262 mod1 clone or actual.

62gr Fusion.

Choose in that order.

Heavy OTM's definitely do not do it all.

What are the (nominal) terminal effects of 77gr OTM at 200yds through auto glass when fired at 2600fps? Same question for 62gr MSR, GD, TBBC, MK318, etc, (but fired at 2800-3000fps)

What is the minimum expansion (more like fragmentation) velocity for a 77 SMK bullet? 2300fps and anecdotally down to 2100fps. TMK is ~1900fps. 62MSR is 1800fps (anecdotally 1700fps). 62/64GD 1800fps. TBBC 1800fps. MK318 1800fps. In fact, most bonded soft points are in the 1800-1900fps range and since they're a lighter bullet, can be loaded so that they have a several hundred fps advantage at the muzzle.

I'll agree with you that 77's hit HARD for caliber at short range, and even that they are more accurate/precise along their trajectory, but that doesn't necessarily make them the best overall choice. EX: They do not do well or predictably through intermediate barriers. At all. EX2: They require relatively high velocities to fragment because they're not designed to fragment. They are designed to be accurate and Sierra will tell you that if you ask them.

I'm not trying to kill your sacred cow, but 77 OTM is not always the best choice, and not generally the best "all around" choice.

(PS, I maintain a dual standard of 77 TMK and 62 MSR for my self defense guns with POI shifts recorded for reference.)

I agree with most of what you've stated, but neither of your two chosen rounds will penetrate through steel, or hard barriers, very well.

I have bigger guns with better (more appropriate to the task) ammo for that

Also a correction: MK318 is actually around 1900fps.

The only two rounds I bother stashing away are the 62gr Federal TBBC (FBIT3) and more recently, the 77gr Black Hills TMK. I have some other stuff for plinking like M855 & AE223. I wish the 62gr Gold Dots and/or Fusion were loaded to 556 velocity for a cheaper version of the FBIT3.

Fusion MSR is listed as a .223 round but the observed velocities are much closer to 5.56, at least in short barrels. I'll take a 2600fps BSP bullet out of an 11.5" barrel any day of the week.

So what are you going to do, carry around multiple long guns with you while in the field?

BTW, the expansion threshold for .223 fusion is much lower than you posted, closer to 1,100 FPS (per Federal). Definitely one of the best rounds for unarmored assailants if barrier penetration isn't a concern.

I have a hard time believing the MSR expands down to 1,100fps.

I don’t think that number is accurate. Cite?

No, but I can have more in the truck I don't plan on taking on multiple opponents with rifle plates though.

FWIW, American Reloading is dumping the 62 gr Fed TBBC bullet right now for about 6 cents a bullet; which is pretty stupid-cheap.  Load it to whatever velocity you like.  They also had the nickel plated solid copper pure nickel (is that right??) MK318 Mod 1 62gr bullets, but those were running for a bit more - and sold out in like an hour.

Yes 69 gr bullets are very accurate. They are great in matches. That's what they are designed for, but they lack in the terminal performance department, thus they are not a good choice for self defense. Here's a couple of AR-15 gel test videos of 69 gr bullets from both a 10.5 and an 18 inch barrel. Neither was able to make the 12" minimum FBI recommendation.

https://youtu.be/hm60UCGzGW0

https://youtu.be/0Zoz72AmFWM

Thanks for that - I was expecting more.  Good to know.

MK318 Mod1 is nickel plated copper so as to not confuse it with the military's 77gr OTM load. It's a lead free bullet also.

Not surprised it sold out quick. Were those pull downs?

ETA: found the page. It looks like pull downs.

Thanks! I was JUST coming back to update that.  I read somewhere originally that they were pure nickel, but after looking further, I don't think so - I think that read was wrong, and it's actually nickel plated pure copper (with no lead any more).  So thanks for that.

It said "New" but it's American Reloading after all, so we'll see....  Even if pulldowns, 50,000 psi and running down a steel barrel at Mach 3 has a way of smoothing out pull-grooves.

The engineers who designed the round.  Try calling them up, they have all the data for the round.  There are videos on youtube of it expanding very well at under 2,000 fps.

The 77 gr TMK and 75 gr GD are great choices.  If you haven't already seen them, the AR15.com videos below should help you reaffirm your choices.

https://youtu.be/aq50cOGSXcY

https://youtu.be/2lkI36eUoy4

I agree with most of your comments. Barriers are not that important to me. I prefer heavy OTMs for HD because of I DONT want the bullet going through too many walls. Liability for your bullet has to be considered. If I were a cop or other pro, I would want something with better barrier characteristics. Most of those don't have the long range accuracy of a heavy OTM.

best overall load is relative.

M855A1 is the best general purpose round I’ve ever seen.

Would the 77 OTM or TAP T2 be the best choices if I wanted a round that will not predictably penetrate intermediate barriers? Or penetrate at all?

What does the 77 TMK +  62 MSR offer over the 77 OTM's + TAP T2? Are you shooting these out of an SBR or a longer barrel?

I'll put in a vote for 75gr Gold Dot. Its been great for two deer this year already. Since they're now selling these bullets for reloading, I have plans to load them hot for the SBR/pistol.

OP is asking for a good all around and then specifies 5.56, other posters say if a specific recommendation can't do a job they move up.

Then 5.56 isn't all around enough for them, which is the problem.

Define all around.

Won't penetrate glass at 200m? Wont expand under 1700 fps? Won't wont wont? Then the expectations of all around for a 5.56 are too high. All around for 5.56 is what the OP asked, not what you reach for doing a job out beyond 350m on steel. 5.56 won't do 350m on steel.

I might suggest .50BMG for that . . . if you are making a point that 5.56 isn't good enough, then of course. Of course it won't do .308 or .50BMG. It is inherently limited to it's OAL and case capacity, stating it won't do a bigger cartridges job is more than disengenuous.

OP asks, IN 5.56, what is a good all around. 77OTM, asked and answered. What is the BEST all around cartridge? How about 155mm? Really does a job. Not really man portable. Neither is .50BMG.

IN before 6.5 Creedmore. Because, longer action, AR10 cartridge. Just don't.

That's very cool!  I did not know that.   I run my own now, but I swear, if I had to do it over again, I'm not so sure I actually would reload for HighPower.  Not when you get occasional deals to by IMI 69 SMK loaded ammo for under 50 cents a round delivered - it's kind of a case of "why am I doing this again?"  It's hard to find factory extra long 80 gr factory ammo, but everything else...   But, you know how it goes - once you get all tooled up for it, might as well reload everything!

This.  The best 5.56 round period, and the pinnacle of it's evolution.  Nothing does both as well (penetration and terminal).

Of course, it isn't really available, and you're looking at $2+ a round where you can find it.  Basically unobtainable (much like I hear M855 was the first decade it was adopted).  Hopefully it will be available commercially one day soon.

I would consider M193 a much better "all around cartridge" than a heavy OTM like the 77 grain.

My definition of "all around" or "general use" includes such things as intermediate barriers like auto glass, sheet metal, frame homes, etc. For that, 77OTM is not the best choice, or even an acceptable one. This is a well established fact. Likewise, 62MSR isn't the best for drilling a quarter sized groups at 300+ yds. Let's face it, a 77OTM will not fragment with any degree of reliability at that range and beyond, even though it has a better chance of hitting. My point here is that's it's nigh on impossible to get one round to cover it all. If I had to choose one round, it would be a bonded bullet. Luckily we have more choices than that currently, and mostly at decent prices.

77TMK is demonstrably better at fragmenting down to a lower velocity than 77OTM, even though Sierra will tell you (and has told me) that it's not "designed" for that. BH gel tested 77TMK and it showed explosive fragmentation, short neck and deep penetration at 1900FPS. You're fortunate if you get frag from a 77OTM at 2200-2300fps. To boot, 77TMK has a higher ballistic coefficient than it's OTM counterpart which gives it the potential to fly farther, faster and more accurately than 77OTM. TMK is objectively better than 77OTM in pretty much every category that matters except price, and based on BC (although I have little first hand experience with it), TAP T2.

I chose 62MSR for my primary barrier blind load because I wanted to record POI comparing two rounds so I could have them, know them and keep a few "ready" mags loaded with them. The advantage at the time for me was that it was cheap (relative) compared to the other options and it's loaded to a high .223 pressure. (My velocity tests bore out the truth of this statement).

62MSR is not the ONLY barrier blind load I have, nor is it even the majority in that category of ammo. I also maintain stocks of MK318 Mod1, GD 64, and XM223SP1. That also doesn't take away from any other barrier blind/bonded load out there, it's just what works for me and what I've been able to reasonably acquire. If I got screaming deals on another high quality load, I would jump on it as well. (This includes 77OTM).

To your last question, I have every barrel length from 10.5"-20", with appropriate zeros recorded and kept with each rifle for reference.

There is no "perfect" load in .223/5.56. There are trade offs everywhere. No, I would not want to be hit with any of the mentioned loads, nor any other load from any caliber.

You ever looked at Noslers 64gr bonded Defense loads/bullets?

What is your Approx POI shift from 77tmk to fusion MSR out of the same gun?

Lots of opinions, all likely valid. My vote goes to M193. Fifty years ago I encountered some Asian gentlemen who were sufficiently impressed with being shot by one or two rounds of it to lay down and hold their breath forever.
YMMV

Fairly new to the AR world.  I have two Colt 6721 HBAR's.  One set up for longer range, with a Nikon P-223, and one set up for HD with an Aimpoint PRO, TLR-1 HL, and a couple of other tweaks.  Both have Geiselle SSA's.  I'm okay with the 1/9, and love the "one on top of another" accuracy of the HBAR.

That being said...I stock (4) different loads.  I use the Hornady 55gr TAP for in-house HD; Federal 62gr JSP (FBIT3) for patrol work; IMI 69gr SMK's for longer range; and a ton of good old XM193 for GP and SHTF.  My HD AR is zeroed for the 62gr JSP, and the other one for the 69gr SMK.  Aside from having to remember POI differences between loads (not that much), I'm happy with my choices.  Could I do better?  Maybe.  But the Federal 62JSP's were/are among the top-rated BB rounds, and even at $.80/round, if I'm in a gunfight I want the best round I can get for the task at hand.  Likewise, the IMI 69SMK is ridiculous accurate in my experience, so it's my default "outside of 100 yards" round.

So there you have it from the Neophyte ranks.  Love to hear any suggestions or input from those of you who ply these waters on a regular basis.

R/

In my "grab and go" 11.5" SBR, TMK hits ~1.3" below MSR @ 100yds. Literally right at 6 o'clock in this gun which is very convenient. POI shift is a bit different for other guns but that's the most important one (to me).

I zero that one with MSR and holds are recorded for longer ranges. Based on the performance envelops of the loads, both will reach 1900fps around 300yds but the TMK starts around 2450fps and the MSR starts around 2600fps. The MSR can actually reach out a bit farther with acceptable terminal performance as it hits 1700fps around 375yds, which it's been tested to expand to.

*The longest range I have tested real world is 200yds. I don't have easy access to a longer range. All velocity numbers were generated using chrono data inputted into JBM Ballistics.