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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 1/22/2021 6:12:13 PM EDT
I had a light primer strike on loose pack bulk Federal American Eagle .223 new production Lake City today.  A basic Del-Ton that I’ve fired 3 or 4 times with factory Del-Ton trigger over last year never an issue, also never fired this brand/type ammo before. Dropped a CMC 3.5lb single stage in it last week and on my first drill first mag (Cammenga, I know don’t laugh) today the 10th or 15th round didn’t ignite.  Continued drills after, about 150 rounds with no other issues.  Collected all my brass and compared random samples to unfired round to verify light strike.   Called CMC, he thinks ammo related hard primer.  Again, I’ve never used this ammo before, found a case at Scheels around Xmas at a halfway decent price ($0.45 per round OUCH!) and picked it up for extra training ammo.  

Thoughts, opinions, knowledge?  I can’t find any good comparison articles any longer in my searches after the Go Daddy incident, shame on them...

Thanks
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 6:25:59 PM EDT
[#1]
My guess is that the CMC trigger has a lighter hammer spring.  Lighter spring == lighter strike.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 8:11:15 PM EDT
[#2]
Fully in battery?
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 8:13:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Fully in battery?
View Quote

 It was, yes.
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 12:12:46 PM EDT
[#4]
I’m thinking, with no data to backup, it’s the ammo.  My friend had a light primer strike on Fed AE 5.56 last month when we were hunting Yotes.  Now he had several more at range last week with the same ammo I had a light strike with yesterday with, Fed AE .223.  That tells a story, while not data backed it’s a hunch.  I’m thinking at this point that the speed of production is leading to either some hardness or depth problems with an occasional primer or brass size that’s a little short.  

I’ve never shot FED AE before in 15 years which seems strange now that I think about it.  It’s such a huge American producer for civilian and military.  I guess it’s just coincidence that I haven’t used a bunch of it.  I’ve always kept AE 855 stacked but never shot any.  I tend to use AO, Wolf Gold, and back in the days Ultramax, BVAC, and Rangemaster, etc.  I’d probably use Fiocchi, PPU, or IMI if the market wasn’t so screwy right now.  I’ll continue my due diligence in crude range testing and switch around the diet, than make an educated guess.

I’m sure I’d find a bunch of good stories on the ammo type and anything related if AR15.com archived material hadn’t been nuked...I hate libcoms.  I feel abused.

*UPDATE*. Just tested another 60 rounds thru same setup with no issues, I used the Cammenga and PMag.  I measured random samples OAL on same lot brass and cartridges against the light strike round.   No out of spec deviance anywhere.  Light struck primer also appears to be same depth as unfired rounds.  Maybe just a fluke.
Link Posted: 1/25/2021 11:12:25 PM EDT
[#5]
Welcome to the world of drop-in triggers...

Been going back & forth with Elftmann Tactical on same issue, and the deeper I dug into the subject (should have done that first), the more I hear about drop-ins, and light hammer strikes.
Bought the Elf 308 because of their claims of being able to ignite the hardest of primers, and the picture posted by everyone selling them of a nice heavy hammer.

All bull.....
Got the unit in, it had a lighter hammer. They later told me that the pictured hammer was discontinued.
Mine will light off commercial just fine, but Euro Mil-surplus was really bad, like 1 out of 3.
Talked to Elf, and they said, 'sorry, your's must have the older light hammer spring', and sent a newer, one made from slightly thicker spring wire (new is .045", old was .043").

Installed, and noticed it had a different shape, and it definitely was stronger.
Before I got another range day, a second new style spring showed up at the door, thought 'Great, have a spare'.

Range day, loaded a mag of Mil-surplus, pulled the trigger, and it went Bang, Bang, Bang!
Thought my troubles were over.... Ha !
Tried to chew up some more paper, but #18 went click, 19 went bang, 20 went click...

Went home disappointed, took out the trigger, pulled it apart, and found #2 spring had taken about a 30° set, and the pressure that it once had went by-by.
Talked to Elf again, they requested it back. Sent it out with the now relaxed spring, and the #3 new one.
Took a little while due to holidays, and in the mean time I asked them the reason for the spring relaxing. They didn't address that issue, all they did was replace the hammer & sear!
Damnit, can't they read english !
Got it in, took it apart, and noticed right off that one leg had already taken set, and one of their ball bearings they put in the hammer turned rough.

Opened a new service ticket on their web site, telling them I wanted to return the damn thing fro a refund.
They called, and said they would send new trigger.
Asked them why, if there were no changes. A trigger design that at most only ever lit off 17 rounds in a row wasn't something I was interested in.

At this point, they are sending me a couple of new springs, and a replacement bearing.
I agreed to give it a try.
And I will probably start making some springs of my own, having to have done that many times in the past when I was a practicing smith, and someone would bring in some odd-ball firearm with a broken spring.

There is only one drop in trigger I would be willing to throw another wad of cash at, and that is Velosity's 'Steel Case' trigger, made with a heavier hammer, and spring.
Trigger for using with hard primers
Link Posted: 1/26/2021 5:22:13 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 1/27/2021 12:01:50 AM EDT
[#7]
The .028" to .032" dimension is correct for the AR15s.
308s require more, like .040" to .060", going by what is called out for on other 308 platforms, like M1As, FALs, etc..

I use a hard fine scotch-brite wheel on a bench grinder, with the firing pin chucked up in a cordless drill to radius firing pin tips.
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