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Posted: 3/24/2018 11:00:29 PM EDT
Shot about 40 rounds of 123 grain SST. Still can not get the groups to tighten. Im shooting off a backpack on a bench. It was a little windy. Barrel is a 16 inch m4 profile. SSA trigger in Aero lower set up for my A4. Leupold 3.5x10x50 in Leupold mount. Fired three shot strings with cool off in between at 100 yards. Im getting an up and down shift of about 6-10 inches. No lateral shift. Would this be considered vertical stringing? Barrel is free floated in ALG handguard. On the plus the feeding issues have resolved after a really good cleaning
Best group is triangle center when I was really trying my best  Attached FileThis is before the target above. Cold barrel.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/24/2018 11:15:04 PM EDT
[#1]
First impression: either you really suck (unlikely), or it's a shit barrel.
I may be really wrong about it. But in my experience, a shifting scope tends to wander completely off the paper. This just looks like a wide grouping. If you can shoot tight groups eiyh another rigle, then you arent the issue. |
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Posted: 3/24/2018 11:21:45 PM EDT
[#2]
Jeez, that’s not good. I would probably double check all the screws and the mount, which I’m assuming you already have. Have you used the scope on another rifle with good results? The Hornady 123 is pretty much the gold standard for accuracy.
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Posted: 3/24/2018 11:26:44 PM EDT
[#3]
^^^ Make sure every thing is tight. At 100 yards either you suck or something is loose. Three shot groups are like beating off. It may feel good for a few seconds but really it's worthless. High Power Rifle course of fire requires a 10 round rapid fire string that will hold 2 MOA. ....not that this is a match rifle but 2 MOA would win any match and is not that hard for a rifle to produce.
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Posted: 3/24/2018 11:29:49 PM EDT
[#4]
That scope started life on a 300 Weatherby. I then bought it and used it on a 270 WSM Tikka. The mount is new. The bolts were applied with a ft/lbs wrench. Not sure what we had it set to but it was not excessive. I will check the top torx screws tomorrow. The previous time I went out it shot worse than this. I have a led sled but the public range installed baffles and of course its one board too low. I purchased the barrel nut and wrench from ALG so I doubt its that. I took a gamble and bought this at 50 bucks. If anything I will make it a steel case wolf barrel and replace with a lija or BA when the funds allow
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Posted: 3/24/2018 11:35:05 PM EDT
[#5]
That being the case, I would say it’s the barrel.
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Posted: 3/24/2018 11:52:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Damn,. I just got a Glock barrel from them. I know for $50 I wasn't expecting match grade accuracy but I was at least hoping for some type of group. Well maybe mine will be alright, I guess I'll have to test it and see.
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Posted: 3/25/2018 8:45:20 AM EDT
[#7]
Eliminate the scope from the equation. Try putting your rounds into a 3" reactive target @ 50 yards with irons. If you can't do that you may have a bad barrel.
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Posted: 3/25/2018 9:34:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eliminate the scope from the equation. Try putting your rounds into a 3" reactive target @ 50 yards with irons. If you can't do that you may have a bad barrel. |
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Posted: 3/25/2018 11:41:17 AM EDT
[#9]
What’s the barrel crown look like? That is an easy fix with a brass 1/4-20 chucked in a hand drill with some 320 grit lapping compound followed by 600 grit to finish up. I bought a RRA upper off the EE for a too good to be true price and it would not shoot any better than yours. Thanks brother! While he might have laughed all the way to the bank, last laugh was on the seller because when I pulled the FS, there was a nick in the crown. After I lapped the nick out the barrel, it is a fine shooter now. My ‘deal’ turned out to be a good deal after all. You might want to check the crown and lap it even if it looks OK. It doesn’t take much of a burr or oh-oh to mess up a crown.
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Posted: 3/25/2018 11:56:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Shorten up the target distance. Double check scope mounts, etc or take off and use irons.
Don’t use a back pack. Sand bags. Front and rear. Pay extra attention to trigger pull and breathing. Or.. lock it down in a rest and fire remotely if you really want to know. It could also be that barrel does not like that ammo. Maybe..? You have quite a bit of dispersion though. Anyhow try some other ammo as a test. Check crown for damage. Good luck |
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Posted: 3/25/2018 12:30:18 PM EDT
[#11]
Do you have another scope you could try ?
And the other suggestions about iron sights is good thinking. You might try running a patch down the bore, feeling for any burrs. You're sure the barrel nut is snug ?... Gas block is snug ? ... no binding / bonking going on at the gas key and gas tube ? ( I know, I know... but wow.. those groups are disheartening ) And do try some other ammo... maybe your barrel doesn't like it. I will say my even SKS and ChiCom MAK love it.. in 123 SST 7.62x39.. it shoots better then your group. ( No offense ) |
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Posted: 3/25/2018 1:41:24 PM EDT
[#12]
My barrel hates SSTs. I've found it loves bergers and eld M. Also BCA guarantees MOA with their barrels. I'd contact them.
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Posted: 3/25/2018 1:55:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Are you shooting suppressed? Mine did that with a suppressor on. The shoulder was not big enough to appropriately index off of.
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Posted: 3/25/2018 2:44:40 PM EDT
[#14]
I've got a 24" BCA Grendel upper, it shot 5 shot groups in a nickel at 50, and just under an inch at 120. Over on the Grendel forum, someone had a 20" BCA upper shooting bad, not as bad as OP, but plenty bad. He sent it in, they swapped out barrel and he had it back in 10 days after shipping it off.
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Posted: 3/25/2018 3:32:45 PM EDT
[#15]
OP and Halfnatty, I'll post a link to a prior post of mine about a BCA 16" 300BO barrel and a Glock 17 barrel. These are my experiences with those two barrels, and I make no claims that my results should apply across the board with all BCA barrels...or that your issue is strictly barrel related.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/300BO-El-Cheapo-Surprise/121-724965/ OP, I didn't see mention of the twist on your barrel. Mine was more unusual as a 1:10 for an AR, but I was going for 110g-125g only bullets and supersonic use only as you can see in my post. |
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Posted: 3/25/2018 6:36:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Where are you guys finding the $50 BCA glock barrels? I know we're hearing complaints but I'm curious to hear how the Glock Barrels are doing.
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Posted: 3/25/2018 7:47:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Here is the crown. 1/8 twist 16 inch BCA M4 Carbine barrel. I cant add Irons because its set up as an optic only. I did tighten the bolts that secure the mount to the rail. They were not loose but not overly tight.
 Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/25/2018 8:06:56 PM EDT
[#18]
Looks like the crown needs to be cleaned up.
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Posted: 3/25/2018 10:37:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got a 24" BCA Grendel upper, it shot 5 shot groups in a nickel at 50, and just under an inch at 120. Over on the Grendel forum, someone had a 20" BCA upper shooting bad, not as bad as OP, but plenty bad. He sent it in, they swapped out barrel and he had it back in 10 days after shipping it off. |
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Posted: 3/25/2018 11:01:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Those tick marks on the barrel's crown look suspicious to me. Maybe it needs the crown cleaned up.
But it may not like certain weight bullets. The rifling twist rate may be for a different weight bullet. Maybe use a bore scope and check the rifling in the barrel. Slugging the barrel to determine its bore size would be a good idea too. |
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Posted: 3/25/2018 11:38:10 PM EDT
[#21]
Those marks look like gas getting under the flash hider. Should I try to run it without the washer?I may also try to run without it all together if the tightening of the mount doesnt shape up
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Posted: 3/25/2018 11:39:59 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What’s the barrel crown look like? That is an easy fix with a brass 1/4-20 chucked in a hand drill with some 320 grit lapping compound followed by 600 grit to finish up. I bought a RRA upper off the EE for a too good to be true price and it would not shoot any better than yours. Thanks brother! While he might have laughed all the way to the bank, last laugh was on the seller because when I pulled the FS, there was a nick in the crown. After I lapped the nick out the barrel, it is a fine shooter now. My ‘deal’ turned out to be a good deal after all. You might want to check the crown and lap it even if it looks OK. It doesn’t take much of a burr or oh-oh to mess up a crown. |
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Posted: 3/25/2018 11:45:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Could you post a little more detail concerning "brass 1/4-20 chucked in a hand drill"? I am always eager to learn. 
Chuck in drill, apply lapping compound, press screw head against muzzle and turn your drill on. Make sure you're using a round head screw. |
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Posted: 3/26/2018 12:27:51 AM EDT
[#24]
You used a foot pound torque wrench?
Should be inch pounds. |
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Posted: 3/26/2018 12:58:10 AM EDT
[#25]
$50 barrel.
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Posted: 3/26/2018 1:39:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$50 barrel. 
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Posted: 3/26/2018 10:25:25 AM EDT
[#27]
My BCA 22 Nosler didn't even shoot that well!! I've got some scans of the targets that I will share that would make you sick. That barrel went back to Midway and I got my money back. I'd buy their upper but they will never see a penny for another barrel from me.
I've got a BHW Nosler tube that shows that even this old man can still flinch well and get them together occasionally so I knew it wasn't me. Greg |
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Posted: 3/26/2018 6:21:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/173129/268B2A76-1137-4040-B3E2-BE1C69BA519A-494497.jpg Chuck in drill, apply lapping compound, press screw head against muzzle and turn your drill on. Make sure you're using a round head screw. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Could you post a little more detail concerning "brass 1/4-20 chucked in a hand drill"? I am always eager to learn. Chuck in drill, apply lapping compound, press screw head against muzzle and turn your drill on. Make sure you're using a round head screw. |
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Posted: 3/27/2018 9:29:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Look for soot around your gas block/tube. High pressure leakage there can cause patterns rather than groups.
It doesn't cost much to get some CerroSafe and make a chamber casting to see if your chamber is machined off center (riflings should all start at about the same place on the casting). |
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Posted: 3/27/2018 9:55:52 AM EDT
[#30]
What mount are you using? I had a bobro mount go bad and produce groups like that.
I would first swap optics/mounts. Then I would pull the barrel and re-install, check for a loose barrel extension and/or loose barrel nut. Then I would shoot without the flash hider, might try the re-crown trick. Then I would send it back. |
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Posted: 3/27/2018 10:26:51 AM EDT
[#31]
A high quality Leupold scope will never compensate for a $50 barrel.
When I want a cheap barrel I start around the $225.00 mark. You could try different ammo, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. |
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Posted: 3/27/2018 10:41:00 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A high quality Leupold scope will never compensate for a $50 barrel. When I want a cheap barrel I start around the $225.00 mark. You could try different ammo, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. Yeah, I was somewhat amazed at the accuracy from my $60 BCA 300BO barrel and the $53 threaded Glock 17 barrel. I consider myself lucky. I also have one of BCA's side charger uppers, and it functions flawlessly and is finished nicely. |
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Posted: 3/27/2018 10:59:50 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A high quality Leupold scope will never compensate for a $50 barrel. When I want a cheap barrel I start around the $225.00 mark. You could try different ammo, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.
There's no reason a $50 barrel can't shoot a couple of 1 MOA groups. If you need smaller than that all the time then the price starts going up exponentially. This is obviously either a bad barrel that BCA should replace, or something else not tightened down. |
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Posted: 3/27/2018 3:00:53 PM EDT
[#34]
I will fire without the flash hider since I have tightened everything down. This is a hunting rifle so Sub MOA is not needed. after the next round of shooting if I dont see improvement it will be a new barrel
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Posted: 3/27/2018 7:48:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A high quality Leupold scope will never compensate for a $50 barrel. When I want a cheap barrel I start around the $225.00 mark. You could try different ammo, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. |
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Posted: 4/3/2018 10:16:57 PM EDT
[#36]
loose barrel nut? upper loose in lower? just a suggestion
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Posted: 4/4/2018 10:27:05 AM EDT
[#37]
A few co-workers bought $60 barrels from some odd name vendor I don't remember. I had both my $260 DD chrome lined barreled guns at our last shoot.
Only 1 of the 4 $60 barrels shot ok. After shooting my 2 rifles, they asked where to get the same barrels. Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see that their barrels had a reverse taper down the bore if air gauged. |
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Posted: 4/4/2018 12:12:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Looks like groups from a Franklin armory reformation.
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Posted: 4/4/2018 5:43:20 PM EDT
[#39]
SSA trigger
Aero lower set up for my A4 Leupold 3.5x10x50 Leupold mount Barrel is a 16 inch m4 profile BCA. What did you use to install the scope mount and rings? |
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Posted: 4/4/2018 10:15:12 PM EDT
[#40]
You know, after looking at that group, or lack thereof, in the OP's original pictures, I was wondering how bad a barrel would have to be to produce that group...if indeed it's the barrel.
I pulled a bonehead move shooting one day with my .308 and .243 AR10's. I sent three .243 bullets downrange through my .308...Doh! Oddly, however, my group only opened up 5 inches...yes...5 inches...at 100 yards. I was amazed, but I couldn't find anyone who had done something similar for comparison. I told a local gunsmith friend about it, but he just laughed and said it probably did no harm. He inspected my barrel and gave it a clean bill of health. My next session the .308 went right back to shooting .75 MOA just as before. I've said all that to say this...a barrel and bullet combination have to be pretty bad to produce the OP's spread. It would seem more likely to be a mechanical element to me, but who knows. |
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Posted: 4/4/2018 10:59:03 PM EDT
[#41]
I would be surprised that they even went 100 yards. With out the friction between the bullet/barrel to build pressure, I wouldn't think the powder wouldn't burn very fast. Seems it would have sounded more like a squib load.
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Posted: 4/4/2018 11:07:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A few co-workers bought $60 barrels from some odd name vendor I don't remember. I had both my $260 DD chrome lined barreled guns at our last shoot. Only 1 of the 4 $60 barrels shot ok. After shooting my 2 rifles, they asked where to get the same barrels. Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see that their barrels had a reverse taper down the bore if air gauged. And some not so cheap barrels. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 12:04:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would be surprised that they even went 100 yards. With out the friction between the bullet/barrel to build pressure, I wouldn't think the powder wouldn't burn very fast. Seems it would have sounded more like a squib load. Both rifles were 20" Armalite factory barrels. The ammo for both calibers was Winchester Power Point in those identical, 20-round, gray boxes. Not saying that as an excuse, just saying that's how I managed to screw it up. I was heartbroken, as I was pretty sure I'd screwed up the barrel on my fairly new AR10. I certainly learned the valuable lesson of not having dissimilar ammo on the shooting table during a shooting session with a given firearm. Also when you think about it, how did it even have enough gas pressure to cycle three times. To me the whole scenario sounds incredible, but that's exactly how it happened. Believe me, I'm not fond of admitting to being "that guy" who fired .243 rounds through his .308., but live and learn I guess. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 10:47:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SSA trigger Aero lower set up for my A4 Leupold 3.5x10x50 Leupold mount Barrel is a 16 inch m4 profile BCA. What did you use to install the scope mount and rings? |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 9:03:24 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Snall hand held torx head inside screw driver for the top of the mount and a socket on the two nuts on the mount Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
SSA trigger Aero lower set up for my A4 Leupold 3.5x10x50 Leupold mount Barrel is a 16 inch m4 profile BCA. What did you use to install the scope mount and rings? |
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Posted: 4/7/2018 11:41:21 AM EDT
[#46]
Cant remember as its been months. I appreciate you dropping in LRRP. I know you have a lot of time with this caliber. I did tighten down the mount again after shooting. No idea how tight it is. I will report back . Again at least it functioned 100 percent this time compared to last time
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Posted: 4/14/2018 3:55:42 PM EDT
[#47]
how many rounds total through the barrel? I have some barrels act crazy before they had 30-50 rounds through them. Although I have noticed this more often in chrome lined barrels.
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Posted: 4/14/2018 10:38:48 PM EDT
[#48]
60 total. Ammo is hard to find here. I have to order it. And its spensive!
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Posted: 4/14/2018 11:40:56 PM EDT
[#49]
If a scope shifts in the mount, it generally wobbles side to side in my experience.
It also generally wanders way off target. The groups don't look like a wandering zero issue to me. How did you install the barrel? perhaps retry the barrel torque and installation process before scrapping the barrel? Check the upper receiver and bolt face/lugs for irregularities? |
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Posted: 4/14/2018 11:45:25 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That scope started life on a 300 Weatherby. I then bought it and used it on a 270 WSM Tikka. The mount is new. The bolts were applied with a ft/lbs wrench. Not sure what we had it set to but it was not excessive. I will check the top torx screws tomorrow. The previous time I went out it shot worse than this. I have a led sled but the public range installed baffles and of course its one board too low. I purchased the barrel nut and wrench from ALG so I doubt its that. I took a gamble and bought this at 50 bucks. If anything I will make it a steel case wolf barrel and replace with a lija or BA when the funds allow |
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