I have a hot mess of a 308 rifle I am absolutely and completely pissed off about. I REFUSE to spend additional money or put FUCKING QUARTERS in the rifle as a solution for a BRAND NEW FUCKING RIFLE that is a SHIT build.

Upon the return of the rifle for repair with nothing being done on most of the issues, the Industry Partner rep told me "sometimes the BCG will have slight contact with the rear of the receiver."

Is there ANY Industry Partner or employee of 308 rifles that would agree to this statement?

If so, please state the company name that agrees with this statement.

If not, and ok to do so, please state the company name that disagrees with this.

I have a thread in GD as well for greater visibility.

Thank you

whos is it?

it shouldnt be doing that, however 308 rifles need to be tuned. buffer, gas length, gas block.

I'm going to guess you dont want to name the company, atleaat not yet, so that's fine. Is this a factory built rifle though? Or isn't a parts kit you have to put together?

What I'm curious about is what exactly do you mean with your quote.   Do you have any pictures?

Only thing I can really think of right now is carrier tilt or wrong buffer.  It's possible someone accidentally let some 308s out were they had commercial buffer tubes on instead of mil spec.  ** or ar15 buffer tube on a 308

If it's a custom build then maybe the parts just arent lining up right.

OP also posted this in GD, seeking validation for him wanting a new rifle.

What OP claims is happening makes absolutely no sense at all, and I personally don't believe him until I see pictures.

Yeah... i saw that post but I didnt c about OP wanting a new rifle out of it.  Just the first post just like this 1.  Then I saw GD was GD'ing so I figured I'd atleast try to help in a non-GD forum.

I guess I'm in the same boat as far as just wanting to see pics just so I (we) know exactly what hes talking about.

I agree.  308s (or really any large frame AR) are going to need to be tuned as most are way over gassed if it's a factory rifle.

Will deliver pic tomorrow morning.

Well OP, I read your post in GD.  As of now there is just 1 page and I prob wont see the rest till i wake up tomorrow.

From the stuff i gathered its POSSIBLY a PSA 308.  Regardless if its PSA or not... it's possible they accidentally put an ar15 buffer on it and not a 308 version. Reason I say that is if the carrier is going that far back, which 308 bcgs r longer than ar15 bcgs,  its possible that's the issue.  Can you take a measurement of the length of the buffer.  Also pics wouldnt hurt if you can post those too.

Also, just a reminder, this forum isnt GD.  So take a deep breath and explain the problem/answers.  We all can understand the frustration of something not working but to go off the wall like you did in GD isnt going to help....specially if you want that "industry partner" to fix the rifle.

Thank you sir for your rational response. I will cool the jets here and post a pic when I get up in the morning.

What set me off is telling me this is normal when I know that is BS. I welcome any and all industry partners to tell he this is normal and I will eat crow. I already tried a fix and was told it is normal.

I understand that but we all have had something happen that we know is BS and sometimes that's the way it is.  Since this came from a certain company, then you can either try to result it through them or just know you can choose to not give them any more of your money in the future.

Idk if it was PSA or not and you dont need to say who it is if you dont want too, but just know with "cheaper" stuff, QC is going to be alittle less too.  I cant count how many people have has small issues with ANY company but usually it gets resolved. BUT if it is a PSA 308, then know you might probably 1 of the cheapest 308s out there.  You cant really expect it to win you matches and run perfect out of the gate.   Large frame ars are already knows for having issues as I stated above.  Mostly cause there is no "mil-spec" or "standard" for large frame stuff.  Really just a ton of companies going off 2 main companies (dpms and armalite) pattern.   I do know PSA let a few 308s leave with the wrong buffers.  Some also won't like aftermarket triggers.  Some will should moa, others minute of man.  Again, u cant expect $2000+ quality for sub $500.  Dont get me wrong, if I buy anything, I expect it to work and not have to fiddle with it on top of already paying for it.

Also if you call, or in this case I'm going to assume send your rifle back and then get it back with the same issue, then yeah, again, I can see your frustration but then ask to speak to someone else at the company.  Maybe a manager or tech supervisor.   I agree a carrier shouldn't be going back into the receiver extension let alone messing up the threads.  So indu were told that's normal then again, I can see how that would be annoying. But maybe you talked to someone new or not all that familiar with guns.  Just because someone works for a gun company or even at a gun store doesn't make them experts.

After initially firing the rifle just a few times it was obvious to me from the recoil impulse that something was wrong. It was re-blackened after sending it in, but now with JUST pulling the charging handle back, it is still hitting the receiver as shown here. I have no intention of firing this rifle to see how much worse it will be with firing.



Then again, maybe a long line of Industry Partners will all let me know this is normal as I was told.

Pic doesnt work

something similar, gashes to receiver extension upright, incurred by bolt carrier lower rails.  I've seen worse examples posted, but can't find the thread with the grievous pics.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/Aero-M5-lower-getting-damaged-from-bcg/66-736298/

Works for me.

It's a tiny little nick on the very end of the thread on the front of the tube. No big deal, adjust it out.

That's what you do, fine tune your rifle if your bcg is going a bit to far back, drop a quarter down the tube or a trailer washer or 2.

Problem solved, it happens lots of times on budget rifles. Or spring for a high $ rifle. It still might make a little nick during shooting in.

See a common thread here?

There are companies who know that they will make a killing knocking-off other designs with the least amount of effort, no real competent engineering or basic design analysis, no mechanical engineering trouble-shooting, then take that product to market and set the price point so low that they will make profit based on volume.

If a production large-frame .308 is smashing the BCG rails into the RET boss on the lower, it means they didn't take into account the basic mechanical engineering of the design and figured they could source BCGs from their supplier, and match them with their lower receiver design without a test and validation program.

This is a big problem in the AR world because people assume they can just ride the coattails of the industry with a modular design, but especially with large frame AR10s and copies of copies of the AR10, if you don't have good ME, it will bite you.

my aero m5 did that but worse, I got a heavier buffer and recoil spring and also a adj gas block.

there is a thread somewhere with pics

off site link but it has a picture

http://www.predatormastersforums.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2980609

Upon rereading it, I may have been mistaken. He put an emphasis on "BRAND NEW RIFLE", but like the rest of his post, it was rather hard to dechiper the context.

Well OP, it seems like you got t2 good answers in here so far.  1. It's a typical large frame AR and you need to either throw a heavier buffer into it or add an adj gas block *I'd personally do the adj gas block.  Or 2.  Call PSA back and get it resolved.  I'm going to guess they will offer to add an adj gas block.

My 308 AR that I run suppressed 100% of the time was WAY over gassed when I built it, and it's a pretty $ build.   But while doing my homework on it unmade sure to go with an adj gas block.  At first I also just had a reg rifle buffer tube but since I reload I noticed it was also alittle hard on the brass at higher charge weights.   Ended up swapping it out for a JP SCS (overkill for what you need imo) with 2 tungsten weights.  Now it runs super smooth and no gas issues.

Psa 308? Probably the wrong buffer spring.

Was known in gen 1 guns. Had the wrong one in mine and they sent a new spring.

Based on the GD thread, it sounds like this is a fairly common issue regardless of brand, and is easily fixed by an adjustable gas block, a heavier buffer spring, or adding a buffer spacer.

My guess is that tiny amount of damage is self-limiting anyway, and once the aluminum threads have been displaced enough for the buffer to bottom out, the problem has solved itself.

He also said that he bought it as a complete lower and complete upper.  So it wasn't a "BRAND NEW RIFLE," but rather something he put together.  The lower would've been assembled by someone assembling lowers and sitting them on the shelf, ready to go out.  The upper would've been assembled by someone else doing the uppers, and mated to a known-spec lower and test fired.  They never would've crossed paths with each other until they were in the OPs hands.

Granted, when he sent the gun back in to them, *that he 'assembled'* they should've been able to fix the issue.  I understand the frustration there.

Not impressed with the tech that worked on the rifle he sent in, but very impressed that Josiah stepped into the GD thread and offered to help.

What is the solution?

Armalite.

This.

It pisses me off how well marketing psychology works. Its rather scary as well. Capitalism cant do its thing properly because of it.

Just seems wrong on so many levels. Then, me being the dick i am, get frustrated because i can't get shit out in a nice manner for people to take seriously.

More pictures OP. However, there's no real fix besides swapping parts and receivers at this point.

Also, blast the company's name here. Nothing wrong with it in tech forums, just gotta not be a dick and not let the butthurt type for you.

Busy day.

I am making a phone call tomorrow afternoon for a fix.

The first rifle I ever built was a 308 AR assembled from all loose parts on an 80% lower. The only things that came from the same company was the upper receiver and bolt carrier group. I did have issues tuning it but that came down to me being an absolute pleb at the time and the gas port being .012" too small despite the manufacturers insistence it was in spec at .058". I drilled out the gas port myself and she shot like a dream. Never had impacting like this. I used a Tubbs 308 action spring and a KAK industry 5.3oz buffer in a 7" carbine receiver extension (RE).

I wouldn't think an adjustable gas block would do anything but bandaid this hemorrhaging artery. The only thing the gas block does is unlock the bolt, the action is cycled from the chamber pressure. The cyclical mass shouldn't be bottoming out but if it did it should bottom out at the buffer stop on the back of the RE, not the BCG at the RE threads. Makes me think your spring is out of spec. From your photo it also looks like your RE could be screwed in another revolution which could give you the dimension you need. A good test is to pull your charge handle back all the way and take a photograph of where your bolt is stopping inside your ejection port. That'll give you and guys here a good idea of what's wrong (I don't remember how far back the bolt should be from the ejection port.. 3/8" comes to mind?. Loosen your castle nut, screw in your RE a revolution, tighten your castle nut back up and take another photo of where your bolt stops with the charge handle pulled back. Measure both times and post the numbers and pics here. Good luck OP, 308s are a bitch.

My PA-10 came with the tiny 308 PSA logo buffer, short carbine receiver extension but an AR-15 buffer spring. (I haven't contacted PSA on this issue)
But did regarding the wrong bolt catch which they sent me.

My Tubbs 308 buffer spring has a collapsed length that prevents anymore of the receiver/BCG damage. (My Tubbs spring came coated in a flaking mill scale - not happy with that either) I've also replaced the AR-15 carbine receiver extension on my PA-10 with a BCM A5 and put in a standard carbine H3 buffer. I've got a SLR adjustable gas block yet to install too.

I've had a few instances where the mini spring in the dual extractor spring fell out on the ground during cleaning. I've added extra 308 extractor springs with the insert and an extra extractor from Fulton Armory for my range supply bag. Just in case I do loose that mini spring.

My PA-10 mag button hole was machined too large for AR-15 specifications. When inserting a magazine, the magazine catch rocks side to side instead of in and out like it does on every other AR I own. I can't believe I'm the only one to notice this issue. My machinist friend took all the dimensions from the magazine button hole and will be making me one that fits my rifle correctly.

Eventually I'll end up with hardly any PSA parts in my PA-10.

PA-10 carbine extension with BCM A5.
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The Tubbs nasty flaking 308 flat wire, lots of turds being sold these days.
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Fulton Armory 308 extractor, extra springs, and ejector with my PA-10 extractor.
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I would expect a complete upper and complete lower bought from the same company to work out of the box, without beating itself apart, with no additional funds spent on springs, buffers, or adjustable gas blocks.

Quoting the disclaimer on PSA's website:

"The Gen2 PA10 receivers are functionally compatible with the Gen1 receivers, however we recommend matching Gen2 lowers to Gen2 uppers for best appearance.  There are external cosmetic differences when mixing gen1 and Gen2 upper and lower receivers that some may not find appealing.

The AR10 platform does not enjoy a common design between manufacturers, like the AR15.  As a result, there can and will be subtle differences in the parts kits of various manufacturers.  Some parts, like the fire control group, are shared with the AR15 platform to preserve the options for upgrading.  For best results, we recommend only using PSA PA10 parts with our uppers and lower receivers.  We do not recommend using other manufacturers parts in our products."

Seems to me PSA needs to have their own PSA Specifications for their AR10 rifles / kits they are selling. That or state up front that buying a complete PSA10 upper and PSA10 complete lower from them doesn't guaranty quality, reliability, or proper function.

That’s some sort of dry lube on that spring, it’s not heat treat scale. Probably just some kind of moly aerosol.

LOL

This came on the last complete PSA PA-10 I bought:

Pulled off of a new never fired rifle, buffer tube that measures 7 3/4" internally, buffer that is 3 1/4" long and weighs 3oz and the spring.

There is evidence that the carrier has struck the receiver, and there was way too much real estate between the bolt face and bolt catch, it took 3 Quarters to prevent the contact with the spring removed. I pulled and replaced it with an Aero M5 308 Kit, no interference now.

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Indeed!

Phone call was made this afternoon as previously stated and the rifle is going back.

What did they say?

Good to hear.

Did they say what the problem(s) could be?

Here here!

General Discussion -  Industry Partners and Builders please respond on 308 issue (Page 13 of 13)