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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 10/8/2022 10:44:38 AM EDT
I hate to post but this is driving me nuts.  Bought a used 11.5 upper (superficial use), factory assembled.  I'll hold off on name for now, but it's Colt-quality.  Lower is an SBR'd BCM, also factory assembled, and has been used on various uppers for several years.

Initially numerous issues with BCG locking back on multiple magazines, ammo types and lower.  Sent it to manufacturer, they tweaked the gas tube.

So it came back to me and is better. But still, about 25% of time, BCG won't lock on upper.  I've tried 2 lowers, same issue.  I've swapped BCGs.  I've used about 6 different magazine types (Pmag, Lancer, OKay, D&H).  Numerous ammo types, most recently Winchester white box M193 clone.

My BCM lower initially had a Sprinco Blue with H2, I dropped that to an H1, but thinking of maybe going to a mil-spec and carbine buffer next time out.  The other lower was a Giessele with their coiled recoil spring and H2 buffer.

Not sure how to check the gas system.  

Any thoughts other than that?
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 1:57:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 2:31:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
For process of elimination, start with a thorough cleaning.  This would include using a chamber brush and good solvent, make sure the chamber is clean, then swab out the chamber with some denatured alcohol to confirm that there is no oils or solvents left in the chamber.

Inspect the bolt carrier key (gas key) where it mates with the bolt carrier, specifically looking for any signs carbon deposits blowing out from underneath (usually at a 45 degree rearward and downward angle if there is a leak, which would indicate a possible broken gas key screw).

Thoroughly clean the bolt carrier assembly.  While cleaning it, check that the gas rings have a proper seal.  Then inspect to see if the gas key is tight, and that it is properly staked.

If the rifle has a gas block, and is held onto the barrel with screws or a clamp, inspect to see if it is tight and properly aligned with the gas port.

Inspect the build to see that the gas tube is in proper alignment with the gas key, as the gas tube goes inside the gas key about 3/4".  Turn the upper receiver upside down, and look into the charging handle track.  You should see about 1" of gas tube sticking out in the charging handle track.  Is the gas tube centered inside the charging handle track?  If the gas tube is diagonally off center, this may be a contributing factor where the barrel not is not in proper alignment, or the gas block/front sight base is off center and is causing the gas tube to be off center with the gas key.  If the gas tube is off center, then it will rub and cause resistance as it mates with the gas key, and this rubbing can be just enough resistance to cause the issues you are experiencing, another part of this rubbing can also wear down the back end of the gas tube (There is about 1/8" of the back of the gas tube that is slightly flared out, which creates a seal inside the gas key, if this seal rubs off then it can be the cause of lack of enough gas pressure and will result in short stroke issues on some short barrels).  A simple inspection test for this, is to take just the bolt carrier (No bolt, cam pin, firing pin or retaining pin), and slowly insert it into the upper receiver, wiggle and jiggle it as you insert it all the way forward, it should be a loose fit as it goes in/out of the upper receiver and not bind anywhere.

I would suggest using a standard carbine buffer, with standard carbine action spring (Buffer spring), and see if you get any different results.

Then when you go to shoot again, I would suggest soaking all 7 bolt lugs with a quality lubricant, my preference is Slip2000 "EWL" Extreme Weapons Lube.  Then try loading 1 round of ammunition at a time, and see if the bolt carrier locks back on the empty magazine.  


CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
SLR15 Rifles
TheDefensiveEdge.com
(763) 712-0123
View Quote

I've already done the 1 round at a time, as well as 2 rounds at a time.  18 different magazines.  

I've been using the "Go-Juice" lubricant from ALG (I think).  I have Slip2000 but it's running low.

I doubt it's a dirty weapon - as I said, the upper was bought used but was basically a show piece.  It's probably got around 200 rounds on it.  The 2nd BCG was new from the wrapper.  The lower can probably use a cleaning, but it's not bad.  Maybe 2k rounds on it. I guess that can't hurt, though.  Gas keys on the original seemed fine, as did the screws holding the gas key in place.  

I'd hate for the upper to come back from the manufacturer, who specifically addressed the gas system, and still be an issue (but I suppose things can work loose).  Thanks for  the insights. I'll try and post some pics in a bit.
Edit: Brief look, seems like the gas tube is off center.  Opposite end is a standard FSB.  BCG is a bit dirty since it's been riding around in the side pocket of my rifle case for the last few days.  Sorry if you see leaf pieces on it.
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Link Posted: 10/8/2022 2:37:30 PM EDT
[#3]
maybe you should try a regular spring and carbine buffer ???
Link Posted: 10/8/2022 2:48:29 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
maybe you should try a regular spring and carbine buffer ???
View Quote

Yep, that's next on the to-do list.
Link Posted: 10/9/2022 9:46:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 10/11/2022 9:51:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
From the pic, the gas tube appears to be off center.  Since you have a pinned front sight base, look at the barrel nut where the gas tube passes through it as sometimes you can visually see if there is a very little space on both sides of the gas tube where the gas tube will freely pass by the teeth without touching.  If it is touching on one side, and you have space on the other side, you might be able to barely move the barrel nut slightly to even the space out.  If there is no space on either side, it is a tight fit, and you can still adjust the barrel nut about a hair or two to either side to get the gas tube centered until it if free floating in a sense in the charging handle track centered with no resistance that pushes it to the side.

Also looking at your pics, I would again suggest a good cleaning, followed by a heavy lubrication.  Lubricate the 7 bolt lugs each with a full drop of a good lubricant so they are dripping, this will eliminate any friction issues.



CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
SLR15 Rifles
TheDefensiveEdge.com
(763) 712-0123
View Quote


^This for sure.  But also, I know you said the upper has superficial use only, but that gas tube looks worn out.  Should have a pronounced bulb on the end and yours looks straight all the way to the tip.  I would replace the gas tube and do everything above that Sully stated.
Link Posted: 10/11/2022 12:33:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Link Posted: 12/2/2022 2:37:53 PM EDT
[#8]
I like Sully's suggestion:
Standard carbine buffer (2.8 oz) and spring (10.7" long, 0.94" dia, 36 turns)
Link Posted: 12/3/2022 9:24:21 PM EDT
[#9]
I'd suggest ditching the Sprinco Blue, as well. My 12.5" won't run Tula 55gr with my Sprinco and H3 but it will run it with a standard carbine spring and buffer. With the Sprinco being 15% stronger, it's probably just that little bit extra that is keeping your bolt from locking back intermittently
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