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Posted: 1/5/2020 11:07:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Mcx virtus is nice for piston. I'm of thought if going for piston, get one that was designed from the start as a piston system. Lots of options as far as stocks. Very reliable. Check out YouTube for reviews
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Posted: 1/5/2020 12:09:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Thanks for your post. When piston guns first got popular I bought a system and and converted a Rock River Arms AR to gas.
And, I don't know what to say except a couple of things. I have several DI guns and one converted to gas. Here's the difference, your receiver will be clean. It's amazing how clean it will stay. But, at least on some gas guns the will need a wipe down and that's about, Still have to clean the bore and barrel. On another note: A shooting range in Nevada bought an AR/DI and an AR gas operated === they both failed at just about he same round count. No word on what failed. |
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Posted: 1/5/2020 12:36:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the information. I'm going to build two rifles one for my granddaughter and one for my grandson and I want their equipment to be well researched and functional.
My research so far looks as if the piston is easier on general maintenance. |
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Posted: 1/6/2020 2:29:40 AM EDT
[#4]
I've built a few uppers using the Adams Arms kits, no problems, I like them and since I have a few, I've kinda "standardized" my home-made piston uppers around the AA parts line-up. Their customer support has been very good for me, although there's one guy on here who consistently flames them. The Superlative Arms (SA) kits are frequently highly spoken of also.
You might take a look at the Brownells recently-introduced BRN-180 piston upper, that looks very attractive, folding buttstock firing-capable. If Caracal ever makes their piston uppers available again for the civilian market, they keep saying "soon", that's another piston upper that's very high quality, and "military grade". Another piston upper worth mentioning is the Wolf Taiwanese T91 piston upper, based off of the Taiwanese Army issue rifle, not as nicely finished as the Caracal, but well designed. I have one of the Caracal 16" piston uppers, waiting for them to come in stock again to pick up another, and I also have a T91 14.5" upper. Small Arms Solutions on Full30 has video discussions of both of these, and the BRN-180. |
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Posted: 1/6/2020 10:23:12 AM EDT
[#5]
Thanks for the reply. With the help of those here I can do plenty of research as I'm recovering from double knee replacement. As I said these rifles are gifts and quality in terms of finish and accuracy is my concern. My grandchildren have learned from family members that when needed their rifle is their life, quality equipment, quality care and a quality rifleman.
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Posted: 1/6/2020 12:07:21 PM EDT
[#6]
MCX is a great dedicated platform...
PWS makes I think the best 5.56 piston setup and that is my dedicated platform now after trying all modern piston guns...took one over a SCAR... I am a big POF fan in AR10 as well...their designs are solid and I've never had one fail...Gen 4 upgrades are the best in the business IMHO...outside of LMT/KAC...I believe that POF offers the most solid AR10 platform out there...me being a lefty...the piston system helps a lot not getting crap in my face...I don't know what tricks/tuning POF makes...but their AR10 piston guns run very smooth... LWRC is awesome too... I don't trust AA retrofit systems... |
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Posted: 1/6/2020 4:52:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Why don't you trust AA retrofits?
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Posted: 1/6/2020 5:03:04 PM EDT
[#8]
The only difference between a piston gun and DI is DIRT in the receiver. A piston isn't a cure all but you WILL enjoy not having to clean your BCG and adjoining parts as much. I have an early Adams Arms piston assembly on a carbine and I love it. Don't know how long it will work, but mine is still working and wow are they simple.
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Posted: 1/6/2020 5:16:23 PM EDT
[#9]
I have been really impressed with the Superlative Arms kit I have on one on my SBRs. Enough so that I have purchased another kit to convert another SBR.
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Posted: 1/6/2020 8:12:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Big Adams fan here, but I’m also prone to buy long arms from other manufacturers such as Daniel Defense, Colt, and Arsenal.
Having said that: all three of my (OEM built AA uppers have been nothing but dependable shooters right from the box, and I would (and often do) trust them for the security and well-being of my home/family. Keep in mind, I don’t own their kit. But I would expect the quality of the components to be on par with what I have, which I would call “duty ready.” Maybe not a bad idea, but prices are still pretty good on the previous gen. uppers and even complete rifles. Maybe going that way would be worth considering instead of investing in a kit and then donating your time and resources to build a new operating system? Another thing to keep in mind: an OEM built upper would likely retain more value (or at least make it easier to sell) should you ever decide to get rid of it for any reason. Good luck and please keep us informed. |
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Posted: 1/6/2020 11:14:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MCX is a great dedicated platform... PWS makes I think the best 5.56 piston setup and that is my dedicated platform now after trying all modern piston guns...took one over a SCAR... I am a big POF fan in AR10 as well...their designs are solid and I've never had one fail...Gen 4 upgrades are the best in the business IMHO...outside of LMT/KAC...I believe that POF offers the most solid AR10 platform out there...me being a lefty...the piston system helps a lot not getting crap in my face...I don't know what tricks/tuning POF makes...but their AR10 piston guns run very smooth... LWRC is awesome too... I don't trust AA retrofit systems... MCX is a nice dedicated platform, but it is quite heavy. Heavier than the SCAR even. Have also heard multiple reports of the MCX Rattler not being able to survive much past 20-30k round range. That it beats itself up. |
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Posted: 1/6/2020 11:29:52 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why don't you trust AA retrofits? |
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Posted: 1/6/2020 11:33:16 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree regarding the PWS for an AR platform piston gun, I think PWS has it down with the long stroke piston systems. Unless it was designed to be such from the beginning (SCAR, Bren....etc.), I don't care for short stroke piston systems in ARs. The felt recoil isn't as nice with all of the metal on metal impacts. MCX is a nice dedicated platform, but it is quite heavy. Heavier than the SCAR even. Have also heard multiple reports of the MCX Rattler not being able to survive much past 20-30k round range. That it beats itself up. I agree with short stroke on ARs...except POF...they have it down...maybe because the gas components are free floated...no springs...it acts like a DI gun...I honestly cant tell a difference between my PWS 5.56 gun with my POF AR10... The most jumpy short stroke factory AR gun was my LWRC IC-A2...the IC-A5 was smoother but not near as smooth as the PWS (or POF AR10 for that matter). |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 9:49:07 AM EDT
[#14]
If I were in your position, I would buy a used LWRC upper from the EE section here. I have had my M6A2 for over 10 years now, it has never given me any issues. I've seen numerous uppers for sale in the $750 range or less.
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Posted: 1/7/2020 10:02:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Thanks for the input, keep it coming. As I said recovering from double knee replacement, then surgery on both feet so lots of time for research.
It looks like so far a consensus if for a rifle built to be a piston rifle. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:19:08 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for the input, keep it coming. As I said recovering from double knee replacement, then surgery on both feet so lots of time for research. It looks like so far a consensus if for a rifle built to be a piston rifle. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 8:23:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only difference between a piston gun and DI is DIRT in the receiver. A piston isn't a cure all but you WILL enjoy not having to clean your BCG and adjoining parts as much. I have an early Adams Arms piston assembly on a carbine and I love it. Don't know how long it will work, but mine is still working and wow are they simple. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 8:24:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From my experience...AA gas systems are way over-gassed...they have to make the retrofit kits universal...so it runs more on the open side...maybe their factory rifle piston setups are smoother as they can control barrel specs...but the universal kits get a dumbs down from me...especially the set screw gas block setups...piston gas blocks need to be pinned. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 9:16:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe the MCX is spec'd out for 25K lifespan... I agree with short stroke on ARs...except POF...they have it down...maybe because the gas components are free floated...no springs...it acts like a DI gun...I honestly cant tell a difference between my PWS 5.56 gun with my POF AR10... The most jumpy short stroke factory AR gun was my LWRC IC-A2...the IC-A5 was smoother but not near as smooth as the PWS (or POF AR10 for that matter). |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 10:40:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Naaaw, there is a lot more than "only", , here is one of many often over looked differences, NO gas in the face. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The only difference between a piston gun and DI is DIRT in the receiver. A piston isn't a cure all but you WILL enjoy not having to clean your BCG and adjoining parts as much. I have an early Adams Arms piston assembly on a carbine and I love it. Don't know how long it will work, but mine is still working and wow are they simple. Piston systems will still suffer from the blowback that any AR system will. The biggest difference is most piston systems have adjustable blocks that will help delay the unlocking of the action, making it so less will come down the bore. The same thing can be done on any Stoner Gas system rifle with an adjustable gasblock or adjustable carrier. I've had PWS, LWRC, SCAR 16 and played with an AA piston kit, they ALL get dirty suppressed and only the SCAR didn't spit back due to its design. |
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Posted: 1/7/2020 11:17:37 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is false though. The piston system isn't isolating the gas blowback as the blowback is happening from the bore, not from the gas being pushed back into the AR system. Piston systems will still suffer from the blowback that any AR system will. The biggest difference is most piston systems have adjustable blocks that will help delay the unlocking of the action, making it so less will come down the bore. The same thing can be done on any Stoner Gas system rifle with an adjustable gasblock or adjustable carrier. I've had PWS, LWRC, SCAR 16 and played with an AA piston kit, they ALL get dirty suppressed and only the SCAR didn't spit back due to its design. |
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Posted: 1/12/2020 10:34:47 PM EDT
[#22]
I have a rock river, first ever AR, that I converted to a AA piston SBR - 11.5in barrel. The AA kit has run flawless for me and their customer service is great. Of course when run suppressed I inhale a good amount of gas. Currently on my second AR build and looking at the Superlative and Osprey defense piston options vs going with AA again.
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Posted: 1/13/2020 4:33:13 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree regarding the PWS for an AR platform piston gun, I think PWS has it down with the long stroke piston systems. Unless it was designed to be such from the beginning (SCAR, Bren....etc.), I don't care for short stroke piston systems in ARs. The felt recoil isn't as nice with all of the metal on metal impacts. MCX is a nice dedicated platform, but it is quite heavy. Heavier than the SCAR even. Have also heard multiple reports of the MCX Rattler not being able to survive much past 20-30k round range. That it beats itself up. |
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Posted: 1/13/2020 9:23:57 PM EDT
[#24]
PWS
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:56:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The MCX is plenty durable. The 20-30k is the spec from Sig before any parts need to be replaced. Which is much higher than the parts replacement interval for most rifles out there. Plus the MCX has replaceable steel inserts on all wear parts of the receiver. If you manage to kill an MCX by shooting it, you will be the first one I have heard of doing so. |
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Posted: 1/14/2020 1:30:01 PM EDT
[#26]
What do you guys think about the BCM 5,000 round direct impingement test where they fire in 5 mag increments, let her cool and have continued for 5,000 rounds with no cleaning? So far the BCM has had no malfunctions due to no cleaning.
The test is simply designed to see how not cleaning affects function, Stag Arms has done test and quit at 2,000 round with no malfunctions. |
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Posted: 1/15/2020 11:20:17 PM EDT
[#27]
I like the AA system... first one was a Spikes M4 upper with the kit installed by them. Was my first 5.56mm setup, and did it’s job well. Never had an issue with it.
When I moved up to ME, wanted to get an AR pistol built for a truck gun. Shorter barrels with pistons are a little more forgiving, so I got a good deal on an AA 11.5” built upper. Haven’t shot it yet, but nothing makes me feel that it is subpar. If I had to choose another upper for this pistol build, would have been the BRN-180S. Only positive of that is the ability to do a folding stock without any function issues. While you can do that with the SIG setup, I’m not too fond of buying SIG since the P320 “recall.” Completely biased, but just not interested in buying one. |
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Posted: 1/17/2020 12:20:27 PM EDT
[#28]
The Wolf A1 upper is based off the Taiwanese T91, which has a good design, and it's economic. My personal favorite piston systems are the PWS long stroke and the LWRC short stroke systems. Those ain't cheap, though.
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Posted: 1/18/2020 2:51:37 PM EDT
[#29]
416 is a known quantity, I own 416s and DI guns for that reason.
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Posted: 1/19/2020 1:38:54 AM EDT
[#30]
LMT's piston solution is as good as any of the others.
Out of about a dozen of my AR's my 12" LMT piston is hand down the smoothest shooting while suppressed. I also like the MCX platform. |
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Posted: 1/19/2020 10:20:47 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't have any experience with the POF. I have heard good things and also heard bad things about them. Happy to hear your have enjoyed yours. The way they have tuned the AR10 variant is great and honestly feels like shooting a 5.56 … it is much smoooother than a MWS (and I love LMT) … it makes for a great DMR gun … it returns 1.5 MOA with XM80 … so I am sure it will deliver even better groups with match … but its a 600m gun for me and it serves that purpose well with XM80 ball ammo. Heck, I bought my POF P308 Edge off Bud's for $1400 shipped...replaced the factory milspec trigger with Larue and installed an AMBI CH...so roughly $1550...you cannot beat that for what you are getting in the POF P308 Edge...barrel is match, 5R rifling...so its ready to shoot match ammo. One thing I did not like about DI AR10s is the gas (as a lefty) it is much more pronounced than a 5.56 DI. In 5.56, my vote remains that the PWS is best... |
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