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Posted: 9/19/2020 7:55:14 AM EST
ITF (In The Field) Defense binary trigger. Anyone ever heard of them? I was watching a YouTube video yesterday and they popped up on the sidebar. Curiosity got me so I watched it then went to their website. It's a different approach than what Franklin and Fostech use. My limited search ability here came up with nothing and I can't find much, basically nothing, on a web search. Are there any threads here about them? Does anyone have any actual hands on experience with their trigger? Are they a viable alternative to Franklin and Fostech or just a gimmick? They just started selling this past January so that may be why there's no info on them.

Their website.

https://inthefielddefenses.com/
Link Posted: 9/19/2020 11:07:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By mjmensale:
ITF (In The Field) Defense binary trigger. Anyone ever heard of them? I was watching a YouTube video yesterday and they popped up on the sidebar. Curiosity got me so I watched it then went to their website. It's a different approach than what Franklin and Fostech use. My limited search ability here came up with nothing and I can't find much, basically nothing, on a web search. Are there any threads here about them? Does anyone have any actual hands on experience with their trigger? Are they a viable alternative to Franklin and Fostech or just a gimmick? They just started selling this past January so that may be why there's no info on them.

Their website.

https://inthefielddefenses.com/
View Quote


https://www.ar15.com/forums/AR-15/1966-Colt-XM16E1-Reweld-who-s-gun-is-this-/123-755735/

@17Liberty76
Link Posted: 9/19/2020 12:22:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/19/2020 12:34:55 PM EST by ahrion]
I could be wrong, but from doing a small bit of research it looks like you can theoretically use any AR15 trigger/hammer/springs, but you need to use a full auto type safety selecter to get their binary disconnector to work. Their website says you need to use their trigger, but just looking at it, it doesn't look to be any different than an AR15 trigger. It says it's an m16 trigger, but from the pictures it looks to be AR15 because the underneath backside is closed rather than open.
Link Posted: 9/19/2020 2:07:26 PM EST
Link Posted: 9/19/2020 2:11:16 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
It APPEARS to be nothing more than a highly modified Colt 3 shot burst trigger group.
View Quote

Duracoat?

Really bro?
Link Posted: 9/19/2020 6:55:54 PM EST
Maybe because I am drinking, but I can't seem to make sense of what kit is the bare minimum to drop into a lower and go.

Link Posted: 9/19/2020 8:32:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xwarp:
Maybe because I am drinking, but I can't seem to make sense of what kit is the bare minimum to drop into a lower and go.

View Quote

You can do the disconnectors + trigger and be GTG if you have a hammer, disconnector spring, hammer/trigger spring. Otherwise you'll need to get the kit with the hammer and springs.
Link Posted: 9/19/2020 10:01:30 PM EST
Might be cheaper, but prefer the Fostech for the lack of hammer follow, due to the trigger lock. It isn’t that hard to outrun an AR trigger.

That being said, if I were using a design with a fast moving bolt... I’d be more inclined to use a design without a trigger lock. PSA AK-V or MP5K setups come to mind. If someone came out with an AK setup, that uses the original selector... and functionally works like the Fostech setup... I’d buy it.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 10:16:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Thanks for the link. I emailed 17Liberty76 for some info.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 5:02:10 PM EST
Maybe  @17Liberty76 can do a review of his trigger. I am interested in seeing how it compares to Fostech and Franklin.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 5:15:42 PM EST
At the site, the product description is either written in Engrish, or was written by someone who graduated public school in Baltimore. Maybe Todd bailey wrote it. I don't know. I do know that I have a hard time trusting anyone who cannot string together a simple sentence. Looking at you, Biden.

The worrisome part is that it looks like you need to install a M16 trigger, disconnector, and selector switch. I think that is illegal. I could be wrong. I am not willing to be the test case.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 5:51:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 5:59:45 PM EST by ahrion]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BGRC750:
At the site, the product description is either written in Engrish, or was written by someone who graduated public school in Baltimore. Maybe Todd bailey wrote it. I don't know. I do know that I have a hard time trusting anyone who cannot string together a simple sentence. Looking at you, Biden.

The worrisome part is that it looks like you need to install a M16 trigger, disconnector, and selector switch. I think that is illegal. I could be wrong. I am not willing to be the test case.
View Quote

I could be wrong, but I thought you could legit own all m16 or buy all full auto parts, including the sear, but as long as you didn't own the full auto lower that had a sear pin hole, you'd be fine. I would assume that being that this legit just uses existing parts and doesn't convert to fill auto, regardless of select fire selector. Being that it is exactly the same as the the other binary systems, I wouldn't see any issue.

ATF's definition is legit as long as the select fire parts don't allow it to fire in full auto, then it is not a machine gun regardless of whether you have a full auto trigger, hammer, selector, disconnector, or bolt carrier.

My only question is why they made the trigger only 80%. I'm assuming they outsourced those parts and don't want to do the work to modify them for those who bought the system.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 6:15:25 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ahrion:

I could be wrong, but I thought you could legit own all m16 or buy all full auto parts, including the sear, but as long as you didn't own the full auto lower that had a sear pin hole, you'd be fine. I would assume that being that this legit just uses existing parts and doesn't convert to fill auto, regardless of select fire selector. Being that it is exactly the same as the the other binary systems, I wouldn't see any issue.

ATF's definition is legit as long as the select fire parts don't allow it to fire in full auto, then it is not a machine gun regardless of whether you have a full auto trigger, hammer, selector, disconnector, or bolt carrier.

My only question is why they made the trigger only 80%. I'm assuming they outsourced those parts and don't want to do the work to modify them for those who bought the system.
View Quote


If you own a FA  LPK, and an AR, it constitutes constructive intent. You can own M16 parts, but no AR, and be fine, legally. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 6:20:40 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BGRC750:


If you own a FA  LPK, and an AR, it constitutes constructive intent. You can own M16 parts, but no AR, and be fine, legally. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
View Quote



No third pin no problem. We had this discussion regarding the fa bolt carriers. They can try but that cats out of the bag.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 6:25:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 6:27:31 PM EST by ahrion]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BGRC750:


If you own a FA  LPK, and an AR, it constitutes constructive intent. You can own M16 parts, but no AR, and be fine, legally. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
View Quote

I don't think so. That's like saying that I can be charged for illegally owning an SBR if I have a pistol carbine with a brace, but I own a stock. Or having all the parts to make an SBR, but not actually being built. Because I have a shit ton of stocks, barrels, braces and other spare parts lying around, much like most people in the gun word.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 6:26:01 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BGRC750:


If you own a FA  LPK, and an AR, it constitutes constructive intent. You can own M16 parts, but no AR, and be fine, legally. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
View Quote


While I am no expert in this, I'd find it kind of hard to prove "constructive intent" with just the m16 selector, modified disconnector, and trigger.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 6:27:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BGRC750:


If you own a FA  LPK, and an AR, it constitutes constructive intent. You can own M16 parts, but no AR, and be fine, legally. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
View Quote



You are, ...............wrong.

There is no such thing as constructive intent. I can legally own a hacksaw, and at the same time I can legally own a shot gun and at the same time have both laid next to each other on my work bench, NO INTENT!  No one knows your intent.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 6:28:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 6:29:48 PM EST by ahrion]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By OTDR:



You are, ...............wrong.

There is no such thing as constructive intent. I can legally own a hacksaw, and at the same time I can legally own a shot gun and at the same time have both laid next to each other on my work bench, NO INTENT!  No one knows your intent.
View Quote

In addition, you can own a lower, a hand drill or mill, and drill bits that could "machine" . Doesn't mean I would do anything with it.

Coat hangers anyone?
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 6:29:37 PM EST
Interested in this. Looks a lot less complicated than the Fostech, that’s for damn sure.

But why 80%? Why does the installer have to drill out the disconnector channel on the trigger?
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 6:30:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 6:32:12 PM EST by ahrion]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alpha0815:
Interested in this. Looks a lot less complicated than the Fostech, that’s for damn sure.

But why 80%? Why does the installer have to drill out the disconnector channel on the trigger?
View Quote

I'm assuming he's a small business I just don't think that he has the means to do this for you. Its my guess he's outsourcing those parts.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 7:11:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rsell316:



No third pin no problem. We had this discussion regarding the fa bolt carriers. They can try but that cats out of the bag.
View Quote


I stand corrected. Thank you.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 7:33:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 7:51:02 PM EST by waynelte]
To whomever said it had m16 disconnectors. They are wrong. I have put the parts next to an m16 selector and they are not even the same dimensions. The binary disconnector is not the same shape as a semi auto disconnector. This trigger kit only uses an m16 selector from a full auto kit and that’s it, nothing else.


However I got a friend who has 1. He loves it. I think it’s nice but it needs some work on making it lighter.

He used his existing semi auto hammer from his bushmaster rifle. Then bought a colt m16 selector. He bought their trigger kit which consisted of a trigger that was modified for the 2 disconnector springs and the 2 disconnectors. He runs it with an H2 buffer and hasn’t had a problem. I shot it. 100% reliable and we couldn’t outrun the bolt carrier group because of the way it is designed.

I personally like it more than franklin armory because their’s can be outran. I like it more than Fostech’s only because Fostech made theirs of cast alloys vs machined steel. However I like Fostech because it’s so easy to make it run insanely fast with triggerdepot’s 3 gun spring upgrade.

It does have a heavy mil spec trigger pull. It is 7 pounds factor.

I am buying one next week and I’m going to work on making it 3 pounds and removing a lot of the take up. It’s not hard because I’ve done it to all of my semi auto’s.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 7:52:58 PM EST
I own one and it functions great. My issue is as described above, going from upgraded triggers for years to a 7lb pull sucks.

I don’t have the know how it tools to make it better currently.

Link Posted: 9/20/2020 7:56:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alpha0815:
Interested in this. Looks a lot less complicated than the Fostech, that’s for damn sure.

But why 80%? Why does the installer have to drill out the disconnector channel on the trigger?
View Quote



He explains that on his website, due to ITAR rules and he doesnt want to have to pay the $2500.00 fee to register.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 8:46:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 8:47:48 PM EST by waynelte]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kodiak61:
I own one and it functions great. My issue is as described above, going from upgraded triggers for years to a 7lb pull sucks.

I don’t have the know how it tools to make it better currently.

View Quote


I plan to buy one. Polish the hammer/trigger contact points. Cut the hammer spur off and use Taylor tactical hammer/trigger springs and then add Taylor tactical a take up grip screw kit. I already use this kit in all my semi auto’s. For $28 I can get 2 of those kits and make 2 mil spec 7 pound triggers down to 3 pounds each with almost no trigger creep. I do not see why it won’t work with this trigger kit if I can make them 100% reliable with any mil spec semi auto kit.

My buddy doesn’t want to let me make his ITF kit the guinea pig so that is why I’m buying 1. He doesn’t want to take a chance that I will mess his up. However I’ve modified tons of triggers. If I screw mine up, I’m not worried about it.
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 8:49:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 8:59:52 PM EST by ahrion]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kodiak61:
I own one and it functions great. My issue is as described above, going from upgraded triggers for years to a 7lb pull sucks.

I don’t have the know how it tools to make it better currently.

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kodiak61:
I own one and it functions great. My issue is as described above, going from upgraded triggers for years to a 7lb pull sucks.

I don’t have the know how it tools to make it better currently.


Originally Posted By waynelte:
To whomever said it had m16 disconnectors. They are wrong. I have put the parts next to an m16 selector and they are not even the same dimensions. The binary disconnector is not the same shape as a semi auto disconnector. This trigger kit only uses an m16 selector from a full auto kit and that’s it, nothing else.


However I got a friend who has 1. He loves it. I think it’s nice but it needs some work on making it lighter.

He used his existing semi auto hammer from his bushmaster rifle. Then bought a colt m16 selector. He bought their trigger kit which consisted of a trigger that was modified for the 2 disconnector springs and the 2 disconnectors. He runs it with an H2 buffer and hasn’t had a problem. I shot it. 100% reliable and we couldn’t outrun the bolt carrier group because of the way it is designed.

I personally like it more than franklin armory because their’s can be outran. I like it more than Fostech’s only because Fostech made theirs of cast alloys vs machined steel. However I like Fostech because it’s so easy to make it run insanely fast with triggerdepot’s 3 gun spring upgrade.

It does have a heavy mil spec trigger pull. It is 7 pounds factor.

I am buying one next week and I’m going to work on making it 3 pounds and removing a lot of the take up. It’s not hard because I’ve done it to all of my semi auto’s.

Wouldn't removing the spur ruin the disconnector and hammer contact points?

I just bought 2 myself. I've used lighter springs and done polishing and used those trigger adjusters, specifically the Taylor Tactical because it's the most robust. The BMT trigger is kind of ugly to me, but it is -apparently- better stock pull/creep than the stock trigger.  Apparently the BMT flat trigger is pretty nice. I would reckon pairing those two would yield about 3-3.5 lbs easy, which is a sweet spot for most of us.  I don't see how removing the spur is gonna do anything
Link Posted: 9/20/2020 9:04:50 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/20/2020 9:18:32 PM EST by waynelte]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ahrion:


How do you remove the take up? I've used lighter springs and done polishing and used those trigger adjusters. I don't see how removing the spur is gonna do anything. Wouldn't that ruin the disconnector and hammer contact points?

I just bought 2 myself.


Lighter springs. Apparently the BMT flat trigger is pretty nice. I would reckon pairing those two would yield about 3-3.5 lbs easy.
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Originally Posted By ahrion:

Originally Posted By waynelte:
To whomever said it had m16 disconnectors. They are wrong. I have put the parts next to an m16 selector and they are not even the same dimensions. The binary disconnector is not the same shape as a semi auto disconnector. This trigger kit only uses an m16 selector from a full auto kit and that’s it, nothing else.


However I got a friend who has 1. He loves it. I think it’s nice but it needs some work on making it lighter.

He used his existing semi auto hammer from his bushmaster rifle. Then bought a colt m16 selector. He bought their trigger kit which consisted of a trigger that was modified for the 2 disconnector springs and the 2 disconnectors. He runs it with an H2 buffer and hasn’t had a problem. I shot it. 100% reliable and we couldn’t outrun the bolt carrier group because of the way it is designed.

I personally like it more than franklin armory because their’s can be outran. I like it more than Fostech’s only because Fostech made theirs of cast alloys vs machined steel. However I like Fostech because it’s so easy to make it run insanely fast with triggerdepot’s 3 gun spring upgrade.

It does have a heavy mil spec trigger pull. It is 7 pounds factor.

I am buying one next week and I’m going to work on making it 3 pounds and removing a lot of the take up. It’s not hard because I’ve done it to all of my semi auto’s.

How do you remove the take up? I've used lighter springs and done polishing and used those trigger adjusters. I don't see how removing the spur is gonna do anything. Wouldn't that ruin the disconnector and hammer contact points?

I just bought 2 myself.

Originally Posted By kodiak61:
I own one and it functions great. My issue is as described above, going from upgraded triggers for years to a 7lb pull sucks.

I don’t have the know how it tools to make it better currently.


Lighter springs. Apparently the BMT flat trigger is pretty nice. I would reckon pairing those two would yield about 3-3.5 lbs easy.


It’s called bobbing the hammer. When you put a light hammer spring, you have to bob the spur off. A bobbed hammer weights 0.8 ounces and a factory hammer weighs 1.1 ounces.

With a factory hammer, you need a heavy spring to move that weight. If you install a light hammer spring, it cannot move the heavy hammer fast enough which will cause light primer strikes.

With a bobbed hammer, removing the spur removes weight and when paired with a lightweight hammer spring, it moves at a fast enough speed to give reliable primer strikes. The only downfall is you cannot use old ammo with hard primers like that old Russian stuff. All modern American made brass cases ammo such as fiocchi and even lake city works every time.


The take up screw, well you install it like the instructions say. You tighten the grip screw all the way down and then use the long supplied Allen wrench and screw that all the way in until it stops moving the trigger bow. Then back off a 1/4 turn because if you don’t, you won’t be able to move you safety selectors. Once that is in its proper place, you will find that the amount of pull required to get the hammer to release is about 1/8th of an inch versus a full 1/4 inch.

Bobbing the hammer, installing the take up screw with light trigger and hammer springs and polishing the contact points causes a heavy trigger pull of 7 pounds to become 3 pounds that is 100% reliable. I do it to all of my ar15’s and I’ve helped friends do it as well.

JP enterprises who makes ar15 trigger springs sells pre-bobbed hammers. They call them speed hammers.

It takes about 30-45 minutes between everything and per trigger cost is about $15.


Here is a picture of a bobbed hammer. You can do the same with a few minutes and an angle grinder. You just have to make sure you cut it correct and have it even. You don’t want it uneven as weight distribution when smacking the firing pin doesn’t work.

Link Posted: 9/21/2020 10:37:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ahrion:


Wouldn't removing the spur ruin the disconnector and hammer contact points?

I just bought 2 myself. I've used lighter springs and done polishing and used those trigger adjusters, specifically the Taylor Tactical because it's the most robust. The BMT trigger is kind of ugly to me, but it is -apparently- better stock pull/creep than the stock trigger.  Apparently the BMT flat trigger is pretty nice. I would reckon pairing those two would yield about 3-3.5 lbs easy, which is a sweet spot for most of us.  I don't see how removing the spur is gonna do anything
View Quote
Which ones did you get? I see the M16 style trigger is out and that would be the only style I want to add to my SOPMOD clones.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 4:57:03 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2020 5:12:21 PM EST by ahrion]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By waynelte:


It’s called bobbing the hammer. When you put a light hammer spring, you have to bob the spur off. A bobbed hammer weights 0.8 ounces and a factory hammer weighs 1.1 ounces.

With a factory hammer, you need a heavy spring to move that weight. If you install a light hammer spring, it cannot move the heavy hammer fast enough which will cause light primer strikes.

With a bobbed hammer, removing the spur removes weight and when paired with a lightweight hammer spring, it moves at a fast enough speed to give reliable primer strikes. The only downfall is you cannot use old ammo with hard primers like that old Russian stuff. All modern American made brass cases ammo such as fiocchi and even lake city works every time.


The take up screw, well you install it like the instructions say. You tighten the grip screw all the way down and then use the long supplied Allen wrench and screw that all the way in until it stops moving the trigger bow. Then back off a 1/4 turn because if you don’t, you won’t be able to move you safety selectors. Once that is in its proper place, you will find that the amount of pull required to get the hammer to release is about 1/8th of an inch versus a full 1/4 inch.

Bobbing the hammer, installing the take up screw with light trigger and hammer springs and polishing the contact points causes a heavy trigger pull of 7 pounds to become 3 pounds that is 100% reliable. I do it to all of my ar15’s and I’ve helped friends do it as well.

JP enterprises who makes ar15 trigger springs sells pre-bobbed hammers. They call them speed hammers.

It takes about 30-45 minutes between everything and per trigger cost is about $15.


Here is a picture of a bobbed hammer. You can do the same with a few minutes and an angle grinder. You just have to make sure you cut it correct and have it even. You don’t want it uneven as weight distribution when smacking the firing pin doesn’t work.

https://cdn-fsly.yottaa.net/53ff2f503c881650e20004fa/www.brownells.com/v~4b.b5/userdocs/products/p_452015100_1.jpg?yocs=l_
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By waynelte:


It’s called bobbing the hammer. When you put a light hammer spring, you have to bob the spur off. A bobbed hammer weights 0.8 ounces and a factory hammer weighs 1.1 ounces.

With a factory hammer, you need a heavy spring to move that weight. If you install a light hammer spring, it cannot move the heavy hammer fast enough which will cause light primer strikes.

With a bobbed hammer, removing the spur removes weight and when paired with a lightweight hammer spring, it moves at a fast enough speed to give reliable primer strikes. The only downfall is you cannot use old ammo with hard primers like that old Russian stuff. All modern American made brass cases ammo such as fiocchi and even lake city works every time.


The take up screw, well you install it like the instructions say. You tighten the grip screw all the way down and then use the long supplied Allen wrench and screw that all the way in until it stops moving the trigger bow. Then back off a 1/4 turn because if you don’t, you won’t be able to move you safety selectors. Once that is in its proper place, you will find that the amount of pull required to get the hammer to release is about 1/8th of an inch versus a full 1/4 inch.

Bobbing the hammer, installing the take up screw with light trigger and hammer springs and polishing the contact points causes a heavy trigger pull of 7 pounds to become 3 pounds that is 100% reliable. I do it to all of my ar15’s and I’ve helped friends do it as well.

JP enterprises who makes ar15 trigger springs sells pre-bobbed hammers. They call them speed hammers.

It takes about 30-45 minutes between everything and per trigger cost is about $15.


Here is a picture of a bobbed hammer. You can do the same with a few minutes and an angle grinder. You just have to make sure you cut it correct and have it even. You don’t want it uneven as weight distribution when smacking the firing pin doesn’t work.

https://cdn-fsly.yottaa.net/53ff2f503c881650e20004fa/www.brownells.com/v~4b.b5/userdocs/products/p_452015100_1.jpg?yocs=l_

They don't sell speed hammers anymore. Bummer. Anyone else sell these?

Originally Posted By StuartBoyer:
Which ones did you get? I see the M16 style trigger is out and that would be the only style I want to add to my SOPMOD clones.

I got 2x the entire trigger kit with the bullmoose trigger and ambi safety. I'm a lefty and actually need extra hammers and safeties, so it ended up being cheaper buying this than buying those parts separately. I have of a few extra drop in triggers, springs, and pins, but no extra milspec type triggers, disconnectors, and hammers

I'll end up sending both of them to get Ionbond DLC after polishing them real good. I'm not quite confident in DuraCoat SL.
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 6:29:18 PM EST
OOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
<­br>YOU freakin people just cost me more money!!!!!!

LOLOLOL

Just talked to the owner, had a couple questions. Extremely pleasant conversation.

TY OP for posting about this!
Link Posted: 9/21/2020 10:36:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/21/2020 10:38:34 PM EST by carterbrunelle]
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 9:21:58 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By carterbrunelle:


In all fairness, we recently learned that the echo triggers never used casting for their parts, they are actually 3d printed because MIM is pretty pricey to set up and requires very high numbers to make sense. Think like a minimum of 10,000 pieces a year to be feasible. I don't know why Fostech never clarified this because I know many customers would be much happier to know that they are not getting MIM parts...

Also, the recent productions of echo triggers have much higher quality parts. The new parts are either CNC or a higher quality 3d print that has a better surface finish. You can see this reflected in the recent price increase of echo triggers. I think the days of finding one for sub $400 are pretty much gone, but we shall see...
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Originally Posted By carterbrunelle:
Originally Posted By waynelte:

I personally like it more than franklin armory because their’s can be outran. I like it more than Fostech’s only because Fostech made theirs of cast alloys vs machined steel. However I like Fostech because it’s so easy to make it run insanely fast with triggerdepot’s 3 gun spring upgrade.



In all fairness, we recently learned that the echo triggers never used casting for their parts, they are actually 3d printed because MIM is pretty pricey to set up and requires very high numbers to make sense. Think like a minimum of 10,000 pieces a year to be feasible. I don't know why Fostech never clarified this because I know many customers would be much happier to know that they are not getting MIM parts...

Also, the recent productions of echo triggers have much higher quality parts. The new parts are either CNC or a higher quality 3d print that has a better surface finish. You can see this reflected in the recent price increase of echo triggers. I think the days of finding one for sub $400 are pretty much gone, but we shall see...



So they metal triggers are not MIM but actually 3D printed? That’s interesting.

I have not seen the brand new ones. I have an original series that was from the first pre-orders. I think I waited a year to get it. I upgraded the trigger lock and installed your 3 gun spring. It’s really awesome with that spring. I have a gen 2 echo as well and it looks just like the gen 1 but with the upgraded trigger lock. My gen 1 has a slight indention where the hammer has been smacking the firing pin but it’s never got any deeper and it’s still reliable.

What really bothered me was seeing other people with broken hammers. I don’t know why they broke.

I will have my ITF binary trigger by the end of the week. After I make sure it runs reliably, I plan to modify it to run it fast and light. I’ve been talking to bob the owner, super cool guy. I am the one who suggested the BMT flat triggers so he now added that to the product line.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 9:54:24 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By waynelte:



So they metal triggers are not MIM but actually 3D printed? That’s interesting.

I have not seen the brand new ones. I have an original series that was from the first pre-orders. I think I waited a year to get it. I upgraded the trigger lock and installed your 3 gun spring. It’s really awesome with that spring. I have a gen 2 echo as well and it looks just like the gen 1 but with the upgraded trigger lock. My gen 1 has a slight indention where the hammer has been smacking the firing pin but it’s never got any deeper and it’s still reliable.

What really bothered me was seeing other people with broken hammers. I don’t know why they broke.

I will have my ITF binary trigger by the end of the week. After I make sure it runs reliably, I plan to modify it to run it fast and light. I’ve been talking to bob the owner, super cool guy. I am the one who suggested the BMT flat triggers so he now added that to the product line.
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How long did it take your triggers to ship?
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 10:17:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ahrion:

How long did it take your triggers to ship?
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I ordered on the 21, he stated it would ship yesterday, no tracking yet.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 10:28:20 AM EST
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Originally Posted By xwarp:


I ordered on the 21, he stated it would ship yesterday, no tracking yet.
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Ordered on the 19th. Still no tracking.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 10:35:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By ahrion:

Ordered on the 19th. Still no tracking.
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Could be one man operation and adding tracking info isn't too high up on the list. We'll see if it just shows up in the next couple of days.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 11:57:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By xwarp:


Could be one man operation and adding tracking info isn't too high up on the list. We'll see if it just shows up in the next couple of days.
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I assumed as much. I just got a shipment notification. Will be here Friday.

Anyone have experience with those bullmoose triggers? They claim to be "lighter than stock" with milspec springs.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 2:29:40 PM EST
2 week tops turn around. Bob is the owner and yes it is a 1 man operation . He is a really great guy. I spoke with him numerous times. I suggested the BullMoose Tactical Flat triggers to him and not even 24-48 hours later he released them to the public.

I own 3 of the BMT flat triggers on semi auto’s. They are nice. I think that they feel lighter because they are flat and not curved. I bobbed the hammer like my previous post showing that “speed hammer”. I put on Taylor tactical lightweight springs and their take up screw. Those simple mods make alone can make any mil spec 7 pound trigger down to 3-3.5 pounds.

I plan to do those same mods with a the ITF binary BMT trigger that bob is sending me.


I tell you guys. Having worked on an ITF binary already and knowing what can be done to make them lighter and faster, I bet this trigger can be made even better and I’m sure bob will be incorporating new features for sale soon. I told bob what I’m going to do and will be giving him feedback for future ideas.

I love tinkering with gun parts, if I screw it up it’s my fault but I’ll just buy more parts until I get it right. Bob knows that I like to push parts to their limits.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 8:23:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2020 8:51:41 PM EST by StuartBoyer]
If he gets anymore of the regular M16 style triggers in Ill get one to compare to my BFSIII, that thing runs flawless in my M&P 15-22 and in my 12.5 SBR with a VLTOR A5H3.

EDIT never mind, ordered, he had it back in stock.
Link Posted: 9/23/2020 8:23:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2020 8:50:52 PM EST by StuartBoyer]
*ERROR*
Link Posted: 9/24/2020 7:30:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/24/2020 7:40:32 PM EST by ahrion]
Update:

I just received one of mine today. I tried installing it with my current cheap Anderson hammer. It did not work on binary mode. I then tried the supplied hammer and it worked fine.

To those who want to use a pistol grip adjustment screw, it will NOT work. I tried installing it to adjust the pre travel. While it did adjust the pre travel just a hair, it caused reset issues, in addition to issues firing in binary mode. When adjusting to the lowest possible setting, but keeping everything working, the difference was extremely negligible.
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 9:47:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2020 9:53:21 AM EST by waynelte]
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Originally Posted By ahrion:
Update:

I just received one of mine today. I tried installing it with my current cheap Anderson hammer. It did not work on binary mode. I then tried the supplied hammer and it worked fine.

To those who want to use a pistol grip adjustment screw, it will NOT work. I tried installing it to adjust the pre travel. While it did adjust the pre travel just a hair, it caused reset issues, in addition to issues firing in binary mode. When adjusting to the lowest possible setting, but keeping everything working, the difference was extremely negligible.
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Keep in mind that some Semi auto hammers are not true mil spec, some stuff is mass produced to a spec close to mil spec and works in any semi auto trigger setup but his binary trigger needs a true angle for angle mil spec hammer. Colt and bushmaster hammers should be fine. The hammers that bob supply’s work as intended. His hammers can be used with regular semi auto mil spec triggers.

That is interesting that you say the take up screw doesn’t work because my friend let me modify his and his works 100%. He literally only has 1/8th of an inch travel before the trigger releases. I don’t have video but I can take some pictures. Removing take up also makes the trigger lighter because it requires less pull.

I plan to go to the range this weekend as I should have my trigger today. I plan to do many modifications to get this thing ultra light. If I screw up my trigger modifying it, I’ll just buy another from bob.

Once I get everything figured out, I plan to video and pictures and send them to bob. Possibly end up starting a new explaining how to do the modifications and which products to use.
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 10:34:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2020 10:35:50 AM EST by ahrion]
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Originally Posted By waynelte:


Keep in mind that some Semi auto hammers are not true mil spec, some stuff is mass produced to a spec close to mil spec and works in any semi auto trigger setup but his binary trigger needs a true angle for angle mil spec hammer. Colt and bushmaster hammers should be fine. The hammers that bob supply’s work as intended. His hammers can be used with regular semi auto mil spec triggers.

That is interesting that you say the take up screw doesn’t work because my friend let me modify his and his works 100%. He literally only has 1/8th of an inch travel before the trigger releases. I don’t have video but I can take some pictures. Removing take up also makes the trigger lighter because it requires less pull.

I plan to go to the range this weekend as I should have my trigger today. I plan to do many modifications to get this thing ultra light. If I screw up my trigger modifying it, I’ll just buy another from bob.

Once I get everything figured out, I plan to video and pictures and send them to bob. Possibly end up starting a new explaining how to do the modifications and which products to use.
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Getting the disconnectors in was a PITA. Semi auto hammers should work, as the one supplied isn't a m16 milspec FA type hammer, but semi auto. I inspected the Anderson hammer and it is legit identical to the hammer supplied. I'm assuming it didn't work because Anderson is kind of crappy and people always report them out of spec. I'm wondering if the JP speed hammer works with this
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 1:32:24 PM EST
I'll definitely try the 316 Stainless trigger adjustment screw I got (too bad the maker is gone? Triggersgunparts.com only place I knew that had 316 ones) and a set of JP 3.5T springs. Those made the BFS III flawless in all my guns with no monkeying with buffer springs needed and I couldnt out run it. I just don't like the BFS III trigger shape and safety so the ITF fits the bill and is cheaper. Wonder if the JP springs will do well.
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 5:46:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/25/2020 7:13:09 PM EST by ahrion]
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Originally Posted By StuartBoyer:
I'll definitely try the 316 Stainless trigger adjustment screw I got (too bad the maker is gone? Triggersgunparts.com only place I knew that had 316 ones) and a set of JP 3.5T springs. Those made the BFS III flawless in all my guns with no monkeying with buffer springs needed and I couldnt out run it. I just don't like the BFS III trigger shape and safety so the ITF fits the bill and is cheaper. Wonder if the JP springs will do well.
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Binary mode makes the trigger stiffer than semi. It requires a little more force.
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 8:55:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By waynelte:
I own 3 of the BMT flat triggers on semi auto’s. They are nice. I think that they feel lighter because they are flat and not curved. I bobbed the hammer like my previous post showing that “speed hammer”. I put on Taylor tactical lightweight springs and their take up screw. Those simple mods make alone can make any mil spec 7 pound trigger down to 3-3.5 pounds.

I plan to do those same mods with a the ITF binary BMT trigger that bob is sending me.
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Is going down to 3-3.5 pounds trigger pull reasonable for a gun that will only be used for "social" activities as opposed to competitions etc? It seems to me that the heavier trigger pull would provide a bit of a safety cushion to letting one (or two) off when you really didn't mean to.
Link Posted: 9/25/2020 9:27:57 PM EST
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Originally Posted By mjmensale:


Is going down to 3-3.5 pounds trigger pull reasonable for a gun that will only be used for "social" activities as opposed to competitions etc? It seems to me that the heavier trigger pull would provide a bit of a safety cushion to letting one (or two) off when you really didn't mean to.
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Agreed, but it's not nearly that low. You're talking a 1-2 lbs difference between semi and binary.
Link Posted: 9/26/2020 12:23:16 PM EST
Has anyone tried these in an MPX yet?  Will the stock anvil fit with this trigger?
Link Posted: 9/26/2020 12:55:12 PM EST
I'm hoping mine shows up today, but I'm not holding my breath.
Link Posted: 9/27/2020 12:24:58 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/27/2020 2:37:31 AM EST by waynelte]
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Originally Posted By mjmensale:


Is going down to 3-3.5 pounds trigger pull reasonable for a gun that will only be used for "social" activities as opposed to competitions etc? It seems to me that the heavier trigger pull would provide a bit of a safety cushion to letting one (or two) off when you really didn't mean to.
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Originally Posted By mjmensale:
Originally Posted By waynelte:
I own 3 of the BMT flat triggers on semi auto’s. They are nice. I think that they feel lighter because they are flat and not curved. I bobbed the hammer like my previous post showing that “speed hammer”. I put on Taylor tactical lightweight springs and their take up screw. Those simple mods make alone can make any mil spec 7 pound trigger down to 3-3.5 pounds.

I plan to do those same mods with a the ITF binary BMT trigger that bob is sending me.


Is going down to 3-3.5 pounds trigger pull reasonable for a gun that will only be used for "social" activities as opposed to competitions etc? It seems to me that the heavier trigger pull would provide a bit of a safety cushion to letting one (or two) off when you really didn't mean to.



When i tested my friend's before and after we modified his, it was 7 pounds with an out of box configuration. By time we were done, it was just a tiny hair over 3 pounds consistent with every pull in semi and binary mode. 3 to 3.5 pound pull with a bobbed ar15 hammer will reliably set off every round you put through your rifle except steel cased ammo such as wolf or some other random russian stuff. I shoot alot of Fiocchi .223 55gr and their primer is the same cup thickness .025 as the primer's that Lake City use's in their military ammo. I use this exact setup in my semi auto's and i have never had a failure to fire. A 3.5 pound pull is not too light. It is definitely not a hair trigger if that is what you are asking.

When installing a light trigger spring on a mil spec hammer, it cannot move as fast to set off every primer and occasionally will cause a light primer strike. When you bob the hammer and install a light hammer spring, you remove weight (mass) to make the hammer move faster (velocity). When done right how i do it, you never have a light primer strike. Lake City, Fiocchi, Winchester White box, American federal eagle. All of them has fired every single time with several thousand rounds down range over the years.

I only used to do this mod to my target rifles and only used target match ammo. Then i started doing it to more rifles and realized that it just works. Lightened hammer and light spring allows the hammer to move fast enough to set off all american made primers.
Link Posted: 9/29/2020 4:32:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2020 4:35:13 PM EST by ahrion]
I was able to find a couple companies who have the JP Speed Hammer. It's S7 tool steel and hardened. I got 2 of them. It didn't work initially on the binary mode. I couldn't figure it out, until I inspected the hammer the ITF came with. The disconnector engagement point and the trigger/hammer engagement point in the speed hammer needed to be shaved just slightly. I shaved some metal on them both, polished them, and now it is super crisp and works really well with the speed hammer.  I only have a red JP spring because the yellow spring is in my Larue MBT 2s. So I'm waiting for another enhanced reliability kit from JP. I'm also waiting in a JP original trigger, which has overtravel and creep adjustments and is milspec, which should make this trigger super super smooth.
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