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Posted: 10/21/2018 2:56:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: EdwardAvila]
(this thread is an extension of 10/18 ARFCOM Newsletter article)
International Firearm Corporation .410 ARU Upper Certainly this is not the first AR-15 pattern shotgun, nor is it new, but it may be one of the most fun. With the limited amount of testing we've been able to do so far (more detailed video review will be coming) it works exactly as it should and the .410 cartridges are great for pest control, small game hunting, and skeet shooting. COMPONENTS One of the reasons this is a favorite is that this is a simple upper that fits right on your AR-15 lower. So you can take advantage of whatever lower receiver you currently have. The gas-operated upper is fitted with an 18.5" smooth bore barrel, dust cover, forward assist, charging handle, bolt carrier assembly, and a flash hider. It also includes a set of "Magpul-ish" flip up sights. It comes with one single stack 10 round polymer magazine which is about the same size as a 30rd 5.56 mag. In addition 5 round (similar size to 20rd 5.56mm magazine) and 15 round (similar in size to 40rd 5.56mm mag) magazines are available for under $20. While the manufacturer claims a 4lb weight, our example came in at just over 4lb, 12oz. The upper itself externally looks just like a standard upper, but take a quick look under the hood and you'll see many differences. While the description says it's a 2.5" chamber, it will take 3" shells as is inscribed on the barrel. The limitation is that these need to be loaded directly into the chamber as the magazine will only hold 2.5" shells (and 2.5" shells are not all the same, discussed below). Operation is again straight-forward and just like any other magazine fed AR upper. It features a last round bolt catch that works as it should. Disassembly is described in the manufacturer's video listed below, but we found a few differences from that video suggesting the design has been updated since that was filmed. AMMUNITION So one of the problems encountered with the upper is not really the fault of the upper. Due to the fixed size of the magazine well on a standard lower, the length of the magazine and the rounds is limited as we all know. This can be an issue as it seems that different manufacturers load their shells to different lengths. Winchester makes their .410 shotgun shells a little bit longer than everyone else and as a result they tend to get stuck in the magazine and induce failures to feed. They are just a tad too long and rub against the front of the magazine. A quick measurement shows that 2-1/2" does not mean 2-1/2", much like when buying lumber. Measuring the variety of rounds we had on hand, we came up with these results:
Due the monsoons we've been having here in Dallas for the last week, the range session and video review had to be rescheduled for a future date. PURCHASE You can purchase these uppers at Centerfire Systems and as mentioned above it comes complete with a 10 round magazine and flip up sights, quad-rail, forward assist, dust cover assembly, and a charging handle and bolt carrier group so all you need is your lower and some ammo. Oh, and the best part- it's only $299.99! We'll be releasing the video review of the upper in a coming issue and posted here, as well as range results with all of the ammo listed above so keep an eye out for that. In the meantime, here are a couple of videos from IFC: Turn Your AR Into A .410 Shotgun Breaking Down The .410 ARU From International Firearm Corporation === 12/27/2018 === Finally received the chokes for this, and here are my observations so far. The kit comes with 4 chokes, and a tool. You'll notice the ends of the chokes are marked (* Extra Full, ** Full, *** Modified, and **** Improved Cylinder) The inside of the choke butts up against the end of the barrel so there is no gap inside between the end of the barrel and the choke itself. But the good news is that they fit! The tool itself is made of anodized aluminum and has 4 of the same size cutouts for the chokes. But here is where it gets interesting... the chokes don't really vary much in inside diameter! It will take some field tests to see if this minor variation makes any difference at all in patterning (which I doubt), so that will be the next step. === 2/17/2019 === Got a chance to shoot the chokes, and here are the results. TLDR; : They work as they should. Here is our test platform: IFC .410 upper and using Winchester Super X .410 2-1/2" 1/2oz 7-1/2 shot Before we tested the chokes, we removed the flash hider and fired a test using nothing on the end of the barrel (note: all shots were fired at 7 yds.). As discussed above, there are 4 chokes in the set. The tightest is the extra full choke, and this was the result. Overall, we had groups ranging from 8" (with the extra full choke) to 14" using the improved cylinder, evenly spaced. So the results were: 14" - Improved Cylinder 12" - Modified (same result as the bare barrel) 10" - Full 8" - Extra Full All of the resulting targets are displayed below (starting with the bare barrel, then IC, M, F, XF) And the individual targets. (bare barrel - no choke - 12") (improved cylinder - 14") (modified - 12") (full - 10") (extra full - 8") Next step is to test some buck shot and slugs through this, as well as some reliability testing. |
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[#1]
I could see registering a lower as a SBS in the near future!
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[#2]
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[#3]
What about building one up as a "Firearm" with a brace and overall length over 26". I have been thinking about doing it and may go that way.
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[#4]
anyone know the rules for existing SBR's? could i chop the barrel and still be legal?
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[#5]
Why are these coming out of Turkey and not USA?
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[#6]
Originally Posted By GlockFragOut:
anyone know the rules for existing SBR's? could i chop the barrel and still be legal? View Quote |
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[#7]
Since the rim diameters are very very close, I would love to see something like this made for .44 mag. I would love to have a 44 mag upper for my AR. Either 18 or 16 inch barrel.
With the drastically different chamber pressures, I don't think one of these would make a good base as a conversion. Would be too afraid the bolt would not hold up to the pressure. But if this company could make a 44 mag upper, I would buy one in a heartbeat. |
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[#8]
Originally Posted By Jeeps-And-Guns:
Since the rim diameters are very very close, I would love to see something like this made for .44 mag. I would love to have a 44 mag upper for my AR. Either 18 or 16 inch barrel. With the drastically different chamber pressures, I don't think one of these would make a good base as a conversion. Would be too afraid the bolt would not hold up to the pressure. But if this company could make a 44 mag upper, I would buy one in a heartbeat. View Quote |
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[#9]
What function does the flap just in front the the rear takedown pin hole serve? Would be cool if it’s removable so it would fit on my M-16
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[Last Edit: EdwardAvila]
[#10]
Originally Posted By gunz213:
What function does the flap just in front the the rear takedown pin hole serve? Would be cool if it’s removable so it would fit on my M-16 View Quote ETA: Actually it activates the ejector... |
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[#11]
That's actually pretty cool.
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[#12]
I'm amazed at the variance in OAL of the sample of shells measured, never gave that a thought.
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"If It Has Tits, Wheels, or a CPU, it's gonna cause you Problems."
If ******** could fly, this place would be an airport. NRA LIFE MEMBER FOR OVER 35 YEARS. "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero." |
[Last Edit: jreinke]
[#13]
If you look a the SAAMI cartridge/chamber drawings, the length of a shot shell is measured from a fired hull with the crimp unfolded. Not to mention the fact that as a cartridge that headspaces on the rim, minor variations in LOA are immaterial as long as they don't exceed the chamber length printed on the barrel.
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[#14]
Originally Posted By 762AR556: Why are these coming out of Turkey and not USA? View Quote There's a 12 ga AR-10ish shotgun running around, also Turkish, that will run 2&3/4" shells through the SR-25 magwell, and takes DPMS uppers. Ed, thanks for posting this, might be a good Christmas present for the boy. |
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Married the most eligible woman on ARFCOM. That Every Man Be Armed - see the giveaway/donor threads in GD - post up what you don't need, ask for what you do need.
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[#15]
The stock magazines for these are extremely picky about shell length, which kinda limits our options. They work fine with the ATI slugs, but they jam up when using the ATI T+ buck. (They are just a hair too long.) I figured I'd try an ATI OMNI Hybrid MAXX 5-Round magazine.... and it worked. It was a tight fit in the mag well, but once seated the gun loaded from the bolt release and stripped and fired every shell.
Does anyone know the thread pattern for the muzzle? I'm hoping these chokes fit. https://www.opticsplanet.com/american-tactical-imports-ar-410-choke-tube-set-w-wrench-holder.html |
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[#16]
Welcome to ARFCOM. Got any Legos?
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Married the most eligible woman on ARFCOM. That Every Man Be Armed - see the giveaway/donor threads in GD - post up what you don't need, ask for what you do need.
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[Last Edit: EdwardAvila]
[#17]
Originally Posted By wart:
Does anyone know the thread pattern for the muzzle? I'm hoping these chokes fit. https://www.opticsplanet.com/american-tactical-imports-ar-410-choke-tube-set-w-wrench-holder.html View Quote Only thing I can do is order them and we'll all find out together... says a couple of weeks for availability, so I'll add to this thread when we know more. |
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[Last Edit: jreinke]
[#18]
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[Last Edit: wart]
[#19]
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Welcome to ARFCOM. Got any Legos? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By EdwardAvila:
No one seems to be publishing this for either barrel, but it appears to be a 5/8-28? (finer than 5/8-24). Only thing I can do is order them and we'll all find out together... says a couple of weeks for availability, so I'll add to this thread when we know more. Smokey Mountian Knife Works has the ATI slugs available for $3.99 a box of 25. https://www.smkw.com/ati-slug-140-rifle-ammo-2-5-25rds-atiayav410rs 20 boxes with shipping cost me a whopping $106.70. That's 21 Cents a round. That's... well... it's just plain awesome! |
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[#20]
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[#21]
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[#22]
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[#23]
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[Last Edit: EdwardAvila]
[#24]
That’s a good bit of news. Now if they could just ship them, we’d be all set.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[Last Edit: EdwardAvila]
[#25]
UPDATE - Received the chokes, observations noted above (edits to the OP), and field test will follow.
Suspect they may not do much, but we'll see! |
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[#26]
This looks exactly like the ATI Omni .410....I "assume" that they are actually made in the same factory? Same mags and everything...
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[#27]
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[#28]
Range results with the chokes posted above in OP.
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#29]
Neat. When are you gonna run some light Cowboy Action .45 Colt through it?
ETA: Is that a polymer lower you're running under it? |
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Married the most eligible woman on ARFCOM. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/That-Every-Man-Be-Armed-Free-AR-parts-Please-contribute-your-parts-Trash-Panda-vid-Pg-15-/5-2146304/
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[#30]
Originally Posted By backbencher:
Neat. When are you gonna run some light Cowboy Action .45 Colt through it? ETA: Is that a polymer lower you're running under it? View Quote |
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"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
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[#31]
Originally Posted By EdwardAvila: No polymer lowers here! That's an ARFCOM 7075 billet lower. As for the .45 Colt, I'd be happy to film *you* doing it... View Quote |
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Married the most eligible woman on ARFCOM. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/That-Every-Man-Be-Armed-Free-AR-parts-Please-contribute-your-parts-Trash-Panda-vid-Pg-15-/5-2146304/
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[Last Edit: gdk777]
[#32]
Originally Posted By backbencher:
I've got an ARFCOM polymer Cav Arms Mk 1 lower we can try it on. Be happy to drive out, my local Academy stocks a Cowboy Action .45 Colt load. This week or early next week? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By backbencher:
Originally Posted By EdwardAvila: No polymer lowers here! That's an ARFCOM 7075 billet lower. As for the .45 Colt, I'd be happy to film *you* doing it... |
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[#33]
Originally Posted By gdk777: I hope you are kidding. If not, please make sure you life insurance is paid up so your widow and kids have something to survive on if something goes wrong. The Taurus Judge is designed to contain the pressure of both cartridges and support them not a shotgun.... View Quote |
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Married the most eligible woman on ARFCOM. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/That-Every-Man-Be-Armed-Free-AR-parts-Please-contribute-your-parts-Trash-Panda-vid-Pg-15-/5-2146304/
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[#34]
Ordered 1 yesterday, shipped this morning.
Should arrive in 1-2 days. Also *BUMP* Thanks Ed! |
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"If It Has Tits, Wheels, or a CPU, it's gonna cause you Problems."
If ******** could fly, this place would be an airport. NRA LIFE MEMBER FOR OVER 35 YEARS. "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero." |
[#35]
Do you have the mlok handguard available or just quad rail?
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[Last Edit: hdhogman]
[#36]
You'll have research between the 2 makers.
I ordered the one in the OP. Here is the ATI model, no separate upper available, AFAIK. https://www.americantactical.us/5512/detail.html |
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"If It Has Tits, Wheels, or a CPU, it's gonna cause you Problems."
If ******** could fly, this place would be an airport. NRA LIFE MEMBER FOR OVER 35 YEARS. "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero." |
[#37]
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[#38]
Also on notification list for when the 15 round mags are in stock, will post here, AFTER I buy some!
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"If It Has Tits, Wheels, or a CPU, it's gonna cause you Problems."
If ******** could fly, this place would be an airport. NRA LIFE MEMBER FOR OVER 35 YEARS. "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero." |
[#39]
Is anyone else getting stuck shells? I just purchased one of these and if I chamber a Remington game load I cannot pull the charging handle to the rear on a loaded round without a lot of force to the point I almost broke out the rubber mallot
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[Last Edit: Kaliburz]
[#40]
Originally Posted By hpdfish:
Is anyone else getting stuck shells? I just purchased one of these and if I chamber a Remington game load I cannot pull the charging handle to the rear on a loaded round without a lot of force to the point I almost broke out the rubber mallot View Quote (I would upload some pics, but I am on mobile/web browser & not sure if I can...) PS- I ordered an extra 10 & 17? rnd mag when I got the upper... |
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[#41]
Does anyone know where there is an online list of compatible ammo? I thought I saw a list prior to buying this upper but now I can't find it. A Google search brought up this thread.
I got the upper and took it to the range last weekend along with some ammo I had for my other .410. The Winchester I had was too long for the mag while the Herter's I had was not strong enough to cycle the action. The only thing I had that worked was Remington slugs. I want to order some more but right now I don't know what to get. |
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If I edited the post above it's more than likely because I suck at typing. If I didn't, I was either in too big of a hurry or just missed it.
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[#42]
Mine arrived with a bright red paper listing their recommended shells;
Remington Game Loads and Express Long Range, and Premiere STS. Hornady Critical Defense. Monarch (available from Academy). Have NOT fired mine yet. |
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"If It Has Tits, Wheels, or a CPU, it's gonna cause you Problems."
If ******** could fly, this place would be an airport. NRA LIFE MEMBER FOR OVER 35 YEARS. "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero." |
[#43]
Thanks for that info. I must have that sheet somewhere at home if I can find the box.
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If I edited the post above it's more than likely because I suck at typing. If I didn't, I was either in too big of a hurry or just missed it.
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[#44]
No problem, is what I like most about ARFCOM, and it's Members, we help each other out!
Let me know how it shoots. |
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"If It Has Tits, Wheels, or a CPU, it's gonna cause you Problems."
If ******** could fly, this place would be an airport. NRA LIFE MEMBER FOR OVER 35 YEARS. "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero." |
[#45]
to the guy complaining about stuck shells, i had an ATI from their first attempt at these. it would get stuck as well, i chocked it up to a tight (rough) chamber, so i polished it up, about 1-2'' in, and it would work better...
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[#46]
Hi all ,
I am new memmber of this forum. I am joining from Turkey and i am owner of .410 Platform AR15 of rifle. The upper system coming from Turkish company calling name , Ersus. I am sharing the link of company in below. For info : ATI has totally diffrent supplier or maybe they are produce it in USA. Ersus Web Page The main diffrence is , in Turkey we dont use Bird Shoot Ammo , only slug. This is fun Rifle for shooting range or wood walking. According to Turkish law, Civilian not allowed carry Semi Automatic Rifles , only bolt action or any Shotgun. So this is best way that we can enjoy the Ar15. My Rifle is little diffrent then regular model. Stock , Pistol Grip , Carbon Fiber Front Hand Guard and Ambi buttoms , muzzle break and paint. |
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[#47]
"Welcome To Arfcom".
Great paint job! |
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"If It Has Tits, Wheels, or a CPU, it's gonna cause you Problems."
If ******** could fly, this place would be an airport. NRA LIFE MEMBER FOR OVER 35 YEARS. "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero." |
[#48]
Originally Posted By zeda3000: Hi all , I am new memmber of this forum. I am joining from Turkey and i am owner of .410 Platform AR15 of rifle. The upper system coming from Turkish company calling name , Ersus. I am sharing the link of company in below. For info : ATI has totally diffrent supplier or maybe they are produce it in USA. Ersus Web Page The main diffrence is , in Turkey we dont use Bird Shoot Ammo , only slug. This is fun Rifle for shooting range or wood walking. According to Turkish law, Civilian not allowed carry Semi Automatic Rifles , only bolt action or any Shotgun. So this is best way that we can enjoy the Ar15. My Rifle is little diffrent then regular model. Stock , Pistol Grip , Carbon Fiber Front Hand Guard and Ambi buttoms , muzzle break and paint. https://i.ibb.co/xmvfHHb/image4.jpg https://i.ibb.co/QC31Chk/image5.jpg View Quote |
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Married the most eligible woman on ARFCOM. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/That-Every-Man-Be-Armed-Free-AR-parts-Please-contribute-your-parts-Trash-Panda-vid-Pg-15-/5-2146304/
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[#49]
Originally Posted By backbencher: sallam alaykum. Welcome to ARFCOM. Got any Legos? View Quote Happy to join the ARFCOM , |
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[#50]
Do you have any imitation crab meat and a model train set?
A lot of funny back stories behind some phrases that only we longer term members understand! |
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"If It Has Tits, Wheels, or a CPU, it's gonna cause you Problems."
If ******** could fly, this place would be an airport. NRA LIFE MEMBER FOR OVER 35 YEARS. "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero." |
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