Wow that is awesome, i knew i wasnt crazy.  These do actually exist.  Awesome photo. Yes i'll sell one.

Pete, thanks for parting with one bro. These are definitely legit...

The designation at the bottom is TA31I, and you can tell it's a real ACOG by shifting your head left and right...it should look slightly off center and the right side of the reticle should have a slight blur if you focus on a close white wall.

I have some notes that I need to dig up...they discuss the rangefinding function. I'll make an image for you when I find my old notes. I may have written down some shooting drills too.

Strangely enough we didn't zero these like a normal ACOG. The circle was designed to plug a zeroing target and hit 4 cm low at 25. This would get you poa=poi around 45m. At 100m you're 7 cm high so you would put the circle on the target's chin. At 200 you're 10 cm high so lollipop his head. Then at 250 you're on again (every infantry weapon in the IDF has a 250 m zero). You are 20 cm low at 300 so you want to use the tip of the vertical line then just Kentucky that shit past 300.

Thanks again man...almost teared up looking through one of these things again. Never thought I'd be able to shoot with one again.

This is why I love ARFcom

They sure do love their chamber flags in the IDF.

Great pics in this thread.

I've noticed this too and also they DO NOT keep a round chambered in their sidearms either.  It blows my mind how a country like Israel that is surrounded by countries full of terrorists that want to destroy them DO NOT keep rounds chambered always but yet carry firearms openly in uniform and even their plain clothes details DO NOT either.  It is what it is I suppose but not this guy, just sayin.  Excellent thread and God bless Israel!

Carrying chamber-empty is a holdover from when the IDF was equipped with a few dozen different pistol types, with a dozen types of manual of arms. Now, there's no excuse for it, but institutional inertia's a bitch.

Got curious after receiving this scope, so I dug into my old notes from the IDF's calah (designated marksman) course.

Calah course overview:



Rangefinding with IDF ACOG reticle:



Zeroing with the ACOG (not a 100m zero):



How to dummy cord bipod legs and optic to the weapon:



Just for fun...schematics for a quick-deploy stretcher carrier, made from an old flat-pack backback, 50 cal links, ammo can seals, nails, and 550 cord:

Awesome, Brandon. If you are willing to share more of your notes, I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd enjoy reading them. Cheers!

I’d be interested in seeing some of his IDF gear and set-ups.

Me to!

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New project time

I have a beater M4 parts gun I want to turn into a current issue IDF combat rifle.  Current setup is:

Standard M4 upper(16” nitride M4 bbl, F fsb, flat top upper)
Matech buis
A2 lower w/6pos mil spec tube, A2 grip
Troy 7” FF battlerail
TD short vfg

I just ordered:

Fab GLR16 stock
ARMS 40L buis
Fab rail covers(the ones that are similar to KAC)
Kley-Zion offset 1” light mount

In the near future(6-8 weeks) I will obtain:

Meprolight Tru Dot RDS(M5 style optic)
Surefire G2 light
IDF sling, sling adapters(Velcro type), and a extra set of elastic bands

I will continue to update as I get this put together.  I’m looking to replicate @BrandonP setup on pg 74(about halfway down).

On a semi related note, back in January Samson announced they won a contract to supply the IDF with folding buis.

http://soldiersystems.net/2019/01/16/samson-manufacturing-to-supply-israeli-defense-forces-with-flip-up-backup-iron-sights/

Ooh wee...

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Received an e-mail message from someone asking about the IDF ACOG reticle. Referring to the notes above (https://imgur.com/rpNd1Qu):

The way you use this thing is to line up a human silhouette (at unknown distance) with different parts of the reticle. If the silhouette fits, that's your range (approximately). I have no idea what size silhouette these are calibrated for, but it would be easy to check if someone has 500 meters and an IDPA silhouette

On the notes, the left column indicates the range of the target. That's really your solution to this template matching problem.

Next column is the thing you're lining up. Shoulder width is a person facing you obviously, and body profile is the torso of someone facing to the side.

The line number fits the legend on the reticle itself. I don't know why they numbered them this way. There are 6 "types" of lines: 1 and 2 fit the head, 3 and 4 fit shoulder width, and 5 and 6 are profile (side view of a torso). The lines are labeled.

The zero the IDF uses doesn't correspond to the BDC at all. Not sure how I feel about that, but it worked OK. You're basically POA = rough POI out to 250 (that's their common zero distance across all infantry weapon systems) which gives you a ~40-45 yard zero on again at 250.

The way you shoot is basically only adjusted at 100m and past...inside of that you use it like a red dot. The reticle is designed to aim for peoples' heads since that's usually the only thing sticking out in urban warfare so these holds are designed with that in mind.

At 100, you aim with the donut on the target's chin (you're 7 cm high)
At 200, you aim with the target's head lollipopped on the donut (you're 10 cm high)
at 300 you aim with the tip of the vertical line underneath the donut (you're 20 cm below the donut).

After that you just allah akbar ballpark that shit using the BDC but again the zero doesn't align with it.

It's not really the most precise ACOG on the market by any means, but it's designed to be sort of a cross between a traditional magnified optic and a red dot that's useful out to 300m, and still very fast. I really liked it.

@BrandonP

Thanks again for your info.  That's a little different from US sighting, might have to try it out.

Do you have any info on how a RDS like a MARS, M21, or M5 would be zeroed?  My M5 is on its way.

Cheers bro. They all had (have?) 250m zeros so whatever distance gets you that would be correct. Next time I visit my folks I'll look around for a zeroing target.

The top one here is for irons, bottom for rds. It's just a dot afaik. Borrowed from another thread.

https://i1.wp.com/www.gunsandtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/IMGL0072.jpg?w=650

there is good amount these featured in documentary about IDF recruits Beneathhelmet.org
Available on Amazon Prime

What was the daily ration of water ? I heard after the Six Day War they starting giving 1 liter per hour  !!!
Were you getting any salt tablets ?

Latest version, finally took off Block I items made true IDF M4 clone.
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Nice.
Looks like the rear of the sling is a but bunched up though - for that type of sling with the clips on I add short lengths of secure paracord loops then clip the sling to the loops

Sling looks bunched up because its wrapped under so will rest on fence evenly.
IM a lefty...
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Ah, ok - makes sense!

I just ordered one of these IDF contract rear sights for my clone

Samson Mfg

Is this "the stock?"



If so, it's made by Supergum.

Not sure how much water we were ordered to drink daily, but every few hours we'd have to pound a liter then hold it over our heads, and if a drop landed on the top of your head it was time to pound another liter. Nothing like slamming a canteen full of hot water when it was cleaned with toothpaste and rocks.

That's it! Now just where to find them for sale.

FINALLY! Thanks BrandonP!

Kool !!

BrandonP I sent IM to you.

I left a question about their butt stock on their facebook page but it was immediately removed.  I assume to review it before allowing it.  If you scroll down far enough you can see it again in a small picture.  As per the page the company is currently closed.  I assume it was closed at the end of the business day and is yet to open for daily activates.
kwg

They have a contact link on their normie site for sales but I dunno if you can buy 1 or need to order 1000. Group buy?

Excellent, how in the hell did you find that, now how do we get em, good work Sir.

I believe we know an international company that has a huge amount of clout in the firearms accessories industry that might be able to help us out.  (Cough, cough, Brownells, cough cough, hurrrump)

kwg

JMHO, when seen "in the wild" being carried by IDF gals, "The Stock" (Supergum) looks pretty darn tacticool, battleworn, got some serious street cred.

but seriously, in the pic, up close, looks heavy and clunky.  TBH.  looks like it has a hinged backplate for a small storage compartment under the buffer tube.

from monitoring this thread, I'd guess there's maybe 50-100 hardcore arfcom IDF cloners that would burden themselves with this bit of kit, to be part of that exclusive club.  Unless it's really cheap, then it would compete with the economy grade buttstocks, but with street cred.  I would guess that any of the in-the-combat-zone or patrol IDF'ers carrying this stock would eagerly trade for a B5 enhanced SOPMOD if given the opportunity.  But costs, ITAR, tariffs, congress, etc make that a (cost)-prohibited situation.

hey, just my opinion, nothing more.

regardless, kudo's to BrandonP for researching this and coming up with the answer.  Good job, well done!

@dubagel

Took some pics tonight bro. This was pretty standard as of late 2000s. This particular vest was rescued from destruction since it was deemed unfit for service (some of the mag pouches are wearing through) but I keep it loaded up as a backup...it's perfectly serviceable. It was custom built by a tailor in misayet 50th battalion, judging by the build and the patch.

The vest has a heavy load up front (8 magazines). You can stuff a solevet (double clamped mag) in them too). The vest is designed to fit one frag (the space where the other frag would be mounted is empty...the soldier removed it probably to carry his second frag on his belt), a motorola style radio (smaller than an MBITR), 8 magazines, a mk 77 radio, a camelback, binos, an israeli bandage, and two "gummy" tourniquets along with a bunch of chemlights and other things.



On the sides of every magazine pouch, there is room for a multitool or chem lights.



Behind the two middle magazine pouches are pullouts for batteries. I really like this feature.



Retention strap for binoculars. I believe the other straps (black) are designed to hold smaller binos.



Under the left armpit is a large pouch for an Israeli bandage, and the radio pouch. It's a stretchy design but won't fit an MBITR. It would be for holding a smaller motorola that is often used on the settlements, roughly icom size.



Under the right armpit is the single frag pouch. Usually you'd have a second underneath. This soldier likely moved the frag to his belt, or was only issued one. He could have carried the other in one of the two chest pouches. I keep nomex gloves in there, and a gummy tourniquet.



View from the back. The bottom pouch is for a camelback. The thin middle pouch contains straps for lashing down pieces of equipment like bedrolls or sleeping bags. I've never seen anyone use this in that capacity. The top pouch is designed for a mem kuf 77 radio. The elastic straps are designed to hold a helmet, though they aren't very secure. I didn't like this feature.



Interior of the radio pouch. It contains a couple pouches for admin items and a large pocket for a MK77 radio but you could put a bunch of snickers bars in here if you wanted. I usually put a fleece in there, just a second layer and maybe some cold weather gloves.



Interior view. Here's the main reason I really love these vests...there is two layer foam between your body and the common pinch points (lower back, and under the mag pouches on each side). You can go prone in this thing for hours and the mags won't dig into you. Extremely comfortable to wear.



Class with the IDF vest and carbine.

Looks very similar to my marom dolphin tv7711 vest, but more of a canvasy type material instead of denier/nylon. Like on my 1980’s EPHOD. Wondered about the pull out strips. Didn’t know they were for batteries. Looks like you might have the same Blue JB Omega Seamaster I have lol.

@BrandonP

I recently ordered a Hagor Sayeret Matkal vest from Zahal. I love this thing. Built like a tank and comfortable as hell, but a few pouches had me scratching my head as to their purpose. Your post cleared that up quite nicely.

How does the binoculars strap work? Bino strap around your neck, and just tuck the binoculars behind the strap when not in use?

ITS DONE!!!

[tomhanks]LOOK AT WHAT I HAVE CREATED![/tomhanks]

Legit M5 and a real deal Samson IDF overrun rear sight

Looking good man! Definitely saw that exact stock floating around in country.

@lew 100%

Outstanding! Thanks, mate!

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that Supergum stock sure gets around.

This came out RAD!

Wow, never really looked at this thread before.  Everyone of my own weapons, my own gear in fact, is better than what the IDF is issued.

Been watching Fauda on Netflix, interesting to see what they are using.

@BrandonP  I am curious if you have seen Fauda and if what the IDF, Mista'arvim are like and tactics and gear, as well as the general state of the West Bank that is represented in the show.

I don't think they pride themselves on the gear they pride themselves on experience.