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Posted: 2/27/2021 1:06:52 PM EDT
Made this with a few COTS components and used my target invention to test it's practicality.

The basis of this is a Sionyx Aroura mounted on a vortex flip mount. this can link wirelessly to a phone, which you can then connect to a vufine vuf-110 wearable display that attaches to a pair of spectacles. This allows you to see through a red dot sight and fire your rifle from behind cover.

The gun camera concept is something that the military has been toying with for decades but never been able to make it work. IMO because they always try and add too many features; like GPS & beaming the feeds to an officer who can then further micro manage them. Someone in the good ideas club saw Aliens and thought it was cool so they asked the boffins to make it for them. In reality a 2 Lt with that much info would experience paralysis through over analysis.

If someone brought out a simple one-problem-one-solution product like this then it could have a place. The flip mount/QD makes it easy to move out of the way when not in use and you can look through the image to see and shoot normally if you want. With a bit more development this could actually work.

Winning the firefight is all about suppression. If your team becomes suppressed then your enemy can maneuverer to gain advantage. With this you can still return fire without exposing yourself, that's a capability I know any squad leader would want.
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 1:16:36 PM EDT
[#1]
Can you effectively shoot without being seen using off-the-shelf components?
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 4:15:40 PM EDT
[#2]
This is what enlisted men are for.
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 10:44:28 PM EDT
[#3]
How russian / german of you ;)
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 10:47:32 PM EDT
[#4]
The time it would take to set everything up and be effective would be a huge factor. Also, having only one per squad because having that on every rifle is not an option. It is one of those good things in concept, but not as practical as one would think.
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 11:01:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Could I strap my desktop to my back?


Maybe a ring doorbell and a smartphone should be more practical?
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 11:35:11 PM EDT
[#6]
OP, could we get a pic of the components?  And would you shoot a second video @ steel so these nincompoops don't see your laptop & think it's part of your remote sight?
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 12:05:44 AM EDT
[#7]
Not for me, but it's neat.
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 1:19:06 AM EDT
[#8]
Remember the difference between concealment and cover. Using the rifle reveals you position and if you are not behind a bulletproof wall, someone can tell exactly where you are.

That's doesn't mean it isn't a cool idea and cool implementation.
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 1:56:13 AM EDT
[#9]
Op, it works great with a QD mount behind an EXPS3.  With a vampire light it works at night, too.  It’s not as sensitive as a real gen3 ITT so you could get away with an EXPS2 non-NV sight and just turn the brightness all the way down. The sweet spot for my setup with my EXPS3 is with the NV mode turned almost all the way up or normal mode turned all the way down.  Most real gen3 NV is so much better than the Aurora it would be washed out like a MFer if you ran the EXPS3 with the NV mode cranked up.

Then again, I won’t care as much when the recoil kills a $300 camera versus a $3000 NOD.

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 7:09:58 AM EDT
[#10]
I'll be making another vid pretty soon of the component set up
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 7:20:49 AM EDT
[#11]
That is a nice looking rifle!

What mount is that? Mine is the flip mount off a vortex 3 x magnifier, you just have to drill one of the holes out to 1/4" and buy a 1/4-20 screw. I tried the Sionyx mount from farrow tech but found the vortex to be better - allowing the sionyx to be rotated away so you can look down the sight without it is a nice feature. Once you are finished you can still use the mount on the vortex magnifier.

I had an EXPS 2-2, at lowest setting the reticle is OK through the sionyx.

One of my next experiments will be with NV; comparing a sionyx to a PVS-14, both weapon mounted and helmet mounted in conjunction with an IR laser/light.



Link Posted: 2/28/2021 8:14:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That is a nice looking rifle!

What mount is that? Mine is the flip mount off a vortex 3 x magnifier, you just have to drill one of the holes out to 1/4" and buy a 1/4-20 screw. I tried the Sionyx mount from farrow tech but found the vortex to be better - allowing the sionyx to be rotated away so you can look down the sight without it is a nice feature. Once you are finished you can still use the mount on the vortex magnifier.

I had an EXPS 2-2, at lowest setting the reticle is OK through the sionyx.

One of my next experiments will be with NV; comparing a sionyx to a PVS-14, both weapon mounted and helmet mounted in conjunction with an IR laser/light.



View Quote

For the comparison of the Sionyx to a PVS-14, head over to the thread in NV on the Sionyx. It will save you a bunch of time as the comparison has been done many times already.

Sionyx thread in the NV forum
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 8:51:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

For the comparison of the Sionyx to a PVS-14, head over to the thread in NV on the Sionyx. It will save you a bunch of time as the comparison has been done many times already.

Sionyx thread in the NV forum
View Quote


I know, but not by me or with my invention.

I know that the Sionyx lag will produce a slower 1st round on target and split time. But I'm interested in how much it will affect this and then calculate that as a % of the PVS time to get a precise figure.

I'm doing these experiments for fun and to see if I can get any interest for my shot timer target invention. So I consider the time well spent
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 9:06:17 AM EDT
[#14]
Pretty interesting and workable concept as well as a demo model that you have
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 9:34:46 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Pretty interesting and workable concept as well as a demo model that you have
View Quote


Thanks Mate!
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 10:00:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I know, but not by me or with my invention.

I know that the Sionyx lag will produce a slower 1st round on target and split time. But I'm interested in how much it will affect this and then calculate that as a % of the PVS time to get a precise figure.

I'm doing these experiments for fun and to see if I can get any interest for my shot timer target invention. So I consider the time well spent
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

For the comparison of the Sionyx to a PVS-14, head over to the thread in NV on the Sionyx. It will save you a bunch of time as the comparison has been done many times already.

Sionyx thread in the NV forum


I know, but not by me or with my invention.

I know that the Sionyx lag will produce a slower 1st round on target and split time. But I'm interested in how much it will affect this and then calculate that as a % of the PVS time to get a precise figure.

I'm doing these experiments for fun and to see if I can get any interest for my shot timer target invention. So I consider the time well spent
Fair enough.

Good luck on your project!
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 11:15:58 AM EDT
[#17]
delete
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 11:17:17 AM EDT
[#18]
I think a grenade would be easier. But, what do I know.
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 12:03:31 PM EDT
[#19]
The problem with systems like this is latency. The time between what the camera sees and what your eyeball sees is typically considerable. It's not a problem for fixed targets. But used in a combat situation it's disorienting and ineffective if your target is moving.

Why is there latency? All digital systems have latency compared to their analog counterparts which, while they too can have latency, it's usually much less. But there are things like video compression that take time, transmission to the receiver, and then the receiver also has to decompress that video and play it. this latency can add up to tenths of a second which don't seem like much time but how fast can you pull a trigger? A quarter of a second is more than enough time to miss a moving target.
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 12:08:40 PM EDT
[#20]
I am just thinking off all my deployments and all my engagements and I can’t think of a time that a system like this would have been effective. Our small unit tactics were pretty aggressive and it was about fire and move. A good ok frag comes in handy. If you are actually pinned down, are you going to reach into a bag and pull out a laptop, power it on, select the program that goes to that system and set it up? You would be dead or guys on your team would have eliminated the threat. Maybe LEOs can use it
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 2:29:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am just thinking off all my deployments and all my engagements and I can’t think of a time that a system like this would have been effective. Our small unit tactics were pretty aggressive and it was about fire and move. A good ok frag comes in handy. If you are actually pinned down, are you going to reach into a bag and pull out a laptop, power it on, select the program that goes to that system and set it up? You would be dead or guys on your team would have eliminated the threat. Maybe LEOs can use it
View Quote


The laptop in the video is running the targets, not the camera.
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 3:27:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I am just thinking off all my deployments and all my engagements and I can’t think of a time that a system like this would have been effective. Our small unit tactics were pretty aggressive and it was about fire and move. A good ok frag comes in handy. If you are actually pinned down, are you going to reach into a bag and pull out a laptop, power it on, select the program that goes to that system and set it up? You would be dead or guys on your team would have eliminated the threat. Maybe LEOs can use it
View Quote


Hi, the laptop was just for the target interface. the gun camera doesn't require it and goes wirelessly to the screen on the eyepiece via an iphone in my pocket. It's not ready for issue that's for sure but if a manufacturer had the vision to simplify it and have the image go direct to an eyepiece that could flip up/down from a helmet then it might be worthwhile. this is just a concept demo really.

I was in Afghanistan in 06/07. I'm not saying it would be a game changer or anything, but having a handy periscope to see over walls/around corners and zap what you see would have been a useful tool.

Thanks for commenting!
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 3:33:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The problem with systems like this is latency. The time between what the camera sees and what your eyeball sees is typically considerable. It's not a problem for fixed targets. But used in a combat situation it's disorienting and ineffective if your target is moving.

Why is there latency? All digital systems have latency compared to their analog counterparts which, while they too can have latency, it's usually much less. But there are things like video compression that take time, transmission to the receiver, and then the receiver also has to decompress that video and play it. this latency can add up to tenths of a second which don't seem like much time but how fast can you pull a trigger? A quarter of a second is more than enough time to miss a moving target.
View Quote


You are right, the latency is noticeable. it's not issue ready until this is reduced or eliminated. You could train around it and mitigate it somewhat. (in the UK armed forces training around the flaws in your equipment is part of the institutional culture). I could wish that Sionyx could solve the latency issue and make a wireless eyepiece to go with the camera - then this might be a viable bit of kit.

Thanks for commenting!
Link Posted: 2/28/2021 4:38:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
That is a nice looking rifle!

What mount is that? Mine is the flip mount off a vortex 3 x magnifier, you just have to drill one of the holes out to 1/4" and buy a 1/4-20 screw. I tried the Sionyx mount from farrow tech but found the vortex to be better - allowing the sionyx to be rotated away so you can look down the sight without it is a nice feature. Once you are finished you can still use the mount on the vortex magnifier.

I had an EXPS 2-2, at lowest setting the reticle is OK through the sionyx.

One of my next experiments will be with NV; comparing a sionyx to a PVS-14, both weapon mounted and helmet mounted in conjunction with an IR laser/light.



View Quote
use a cheap 100-300mw 980nm laser with the collimating lens defocused.  You can find them at laserlands, DX, eBay, or Amazon.

A) it will basically throw the light in a cone with very little spill and behave like full power laser illuminator.

B) if you add a 950nm longpass filter to block any spurious emissions, someone with Gen 3 NV won’t be able to see the 980nm laser because it’s out of band... so it’s pretty much passive to people with “real” NV.
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