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Posted: 2/3/2020 10:22:10 PM EDT
[#1]
As far as I know, Larue has never confirmed exactly what steel and processes are used to make their post Lothar Walther barrels.
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Posted: 2/3/2020 11:37:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Not scientific but in all my years here, Ive never heard of people complaining about that barrel (or any Larue barrel for that matter) I’d say you are good to go. They make a 12” version of that barrel so cutting yours should be fine
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Posted: 2/4/2020 12:16:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Larue's 12" barrels are carbine gas, while 14.5-18" are mid and the 20" is rifle. I'd get a carbine gas 11.5" instead of cutting down a 16" mid barrel, unless you use a suppressor on it full time. Even then I'd just get a ERGP Sionics 11.5.
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Posted: 2/4/2020 7:13:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd get a carbine gas 11.5" instead of cutting down a 16" mid barrel, unless you use a suppressor on it full time. |
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Posted: 2/4/2020 11:15:28 AM EDT
[#5]
Thank for pointing out the gas length, forgot about that.
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Posted: 2/5/2020 8:44:01 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As far as I know, Larue has never confirmed exactly what steel and processes are used to make their post Lothar Walther barrels. If I had to guess, Id guess nitrided 416 stainless. Criterions 4150 CL barrels will likely be more durable. I would go Criterion personally. |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 9:32:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't think they're nitrided. That info used to be easily found, but now it's not. I think the black is just color. Response one member got from Larue when he emailed them in regards to the steel used and about finish/treatment/lining specs. "Jason, Thank you for all your business and confidence in our products. I regret to inform you that we cannot answer your questions you have about the barrels. That information is not even made available to us here in the sales department and is a closely guarded company secret. We guarantee all of our barrels for a minimum of 10,000 rounds to hold sub MOA accuracy, many barrels are beyond this threshold and still are shooting sub MOA. V/R Dailey Sales 512-260-4527 [email protected] Description: Description: cid:[email protected]" https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/PredatAR-and-stealth-barrels-Are-they-stainless-nitride-or-chrome-lined-/219-276132/ |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 10:47:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Being button rifled, I'll guess 5000 rounds before a noticeable decline. I'd like to see a new and worn one borescoped.
Sub-MOA to 10k is handlapped, broken-in, decoppered, and nitrided territory. |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 11:28:59 PM EDT
[#9]
For what it's worth, LaRue did a 1000rd continuous shoot of the SUURG upper on video and then took the upper, after it cooled, and test fired for groups off a bench but no other significant gear beyond the bench and basic rest. It was still sub MOA if memory serves me right. I'll see if I can find the video.
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Posted: 2/6/2020 1:45:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Being button rifled, I'll guess 5000 rounds before a noticeable decline. I'd like to see a new and worn one borescoped. Sub-MOA to 10k is handlapped, broken-in, decoppered, and nitrided territory. If LaRue is using a good alloy, and he is ensuring good bore dimensions, maybe even putting a taper in the bore (doubt it, but?), then I can easily see those hitting 10K and maintaining <1moa, as most start at 0.5-0.75. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 3:33:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A friend of mine has a Hodge barrel with over 10K documented rounds that holds SUB MOA. It is one of the more accurate ones, as most are 1-1.5moa barrels, but they don't typically experience any accuracy degradation out past 10K rounds, even used suppressed, etc. If LaRue is using a good alloy, and he is ensuring good bore dimensions, maybe even putting a taper in the bore (doubt it, but?), then I can easily see those hitting 10K and maintaining <1moa, as most start at 0.5-0.75. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 10:02:34 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its seems as though not even Larues sales guys know what steel is used and what finishes/treatments may or may not be used lol. Response one member got from Larue when he emailed them in regards to the steel used and about finish/treatment/lining specs. "Jason, Thank you for all your business and confidence in our products. I regret to inform you that we cannot answer your questions you have about the barrels. That information is not even made available to us here in the sales department and is a closely guarded company secret. We guarantee all of our barrels for a minimum of 10,000 rounds to hold sub MOA accuracy, many barrels are beyond this threshold and still are shooting sub MOA. V/R Dailey Sales 512-260-4527 [email protected] Description: Description: cid:[email protected]" https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/PredatAR-and-stealth-barrels-Are-they-stainless-nitride-or-chrome-lined-/219-276132/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I don't think they're nitrided. That info used to be easily found, but now it's not. I think the black is just color. Response one member got from Larue when he emailed them in regards to the steel used and about finish/treatment/lining specs. "Jason, Thank you for all your business and confidence in our products. I regret to inform you that we cannot answer your questions you have about the barrels. That information is not even made available to us here in the sales department and is a closely guarded company secret. We guarantee all of our barrels for a minimum of 10,000 rounds to hold sub MOA accuracy, many barrels are beyond this threshold and still are shooting sub MOA. V/R Dailey Sales 512-260-4527 [email protected] Description: Description: cid:[email protected]" https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/PredatAR-and-stealth-barrels-Are-they-stainless-nitride-or-chrome-lined-/219-276132/ |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 11:31:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hodges are chromelined and cost Krieger or Bartlein money, correct? Centurion Arms CM4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3myEt3jGc-U dd delta 5 bolt action 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bGFW3NjRI_U |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 6:05:59 PM EDT
[#14]
I know the guy who went to Texas and worked with Mark to set up the barrel making....He would not even under torture tell anyone the secrets to Larue barrels...But in past conversations with the guy...You can rest assured ALOT of it has to do with the steel...Were they get it...How its machined and rifled...And it is secret....I just trust the Voodoo...Accept I will never be allowed into the inner sanctum. Buy the barrel and enjoy its performance.
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Posted: 2/8/2020 7:24:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the guy who went to Texas and worked with Mark to set up the barrel making....He would not even under torture tell anyone the secrets to Larue barrels...But in past conversations with the guy...You can rest assured ALOT of it has to do with the steel...Were they get it...How its machined and rifled...And it is secret....I just trust the Voodoo...Accept I will never be allowed into the inner sanctum. Buy the barrel and enjoy its performance. |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 7:38:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the guy who went to Texas and worked with Mark to set up the barrel making....He would not even under torture tell anyone the secrets to Larue barrels...But in past conversations with the guy...You can rest assured ALOT of it has to do with the steel...Were they get it...How its machined and rifled...And it is secret....I just trust the Voodoo...Accept I will never be allowed into the inner sanctum. Buy the barrel and enjoy its performance. |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 7:41:42 PM EDT
[#17]
What is the problem with the porting? I would like to be able to get rifle length system in a 18" barrel.
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Posted: 2/8/2020 9:07:52 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know the guy who went to Texas and worked with Mark to set up the barrel making....He would not even under torture tell anyone the secrets to Larue barrels...But in past conversations with the guy...You can rest assured ALOT of it has to do with the steel...Were they get it...How its machined and rifled...And it is secret....I just trust the Voodoo...Accept I will never be allowed into the inner sanctum. Buy the barrel and enjoy its performance. 17ph stainless would be my next guess as it is evidently similar to LW50 and equally as tough to machine due to the lack of sulphur in the alloy. |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 10:31:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LW50 pre rifled blanks from Lothar Walther? It seems as though their rep as far as barrels go was built up during the time that is known that they used Lothar Walther. LW50 is known to be incredibly durable (for stainless) and very tough to machine using conventional methods (speeds,feeds,tooling etc.). 17ph stainless would be my next guess as it is evidently similar to LW50 and equally as tough to machine due to the lack of sulphur in the alloy. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know the guy who went to Texas and worked with Mark to set up the barrel making....He would not even under torture tell anyone the secrets to Larue barrels...But in past conversations with the guy...You can rest assured ALOT of it has to do with the steel...Were they get it...How its machined and rifled...And it is secret....I just trust the Voodoo...Accept I will never be allowed into the inner sanctum. Buy the barrel and enjoy its performance. 17ph stainless would be my next guess as it is evidently similar to LW50 and equally as tough to machine due to the lack of sulphur in the alloy. Is LT rifling the barrel steel now or just sourcing blanks and chambering? And it’s hard to rest assured of the steel when it isn’t disclosed. Lots of quality barrels are on the market, and that info is available for many of them. |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 10:58:02 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn’t the barrels go for 400$+ when they were LW? Now they are 200-225$. Is LT rifling the barrel steel now or just sourcing blanks and chambering? And it’s hard to rest assured of the steel when it isn’t disclosed. Lots of quality barrels are on the market, and that info is available for many of them. |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 11:02:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that energy put into the barrel, and they can't port them even close to sensibly. Boggles my mind. I'd be all over those things if they had different porting. |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 11:02:44 PM EDT
[#22]
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/SUURG-Torture-test/219-291739/
No loss of group size after 1000 rounds of continuous full auto, (under 1" before and after). |
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Posted: 2/8/2020 11:03:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the guy's name? |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 12:32:07 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What?? |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 12:39:24 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Industry/SUURG-Torture-test/219-291739/ No loss of group size after 1000 rounds of continuous full auto, (under 1" before and after). Any idea if they heat treat/stress relieve following boring/rifling? |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 12:39:32 AM EDT
[#26]
My 20" 556 stealth has been a great barrel and I've gotten some amazing results with it.
My 20" 224V stealth has been "ok" but not as great as i was hoping for. ** not that its been bad, I get great groups, it's just not consistent. 2-3 groups will be around .5 moa...next group will have fliers (that I know wasnt my fault ** |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 3:15:35 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ya....No...At this point what does it matter? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: What is the guy's name? Also a credibility thing. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 3:17:18 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A friend of mine has a Hodge barrel with over 10K documented rounds that holds SUB MOA. It is one of the more accurate ones, as most are 1-1.5moa barrels, but they don't typically experience any accuracy degradation out past 10K rounds, even used suppressed, etc. I'd like to see that. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 6:01:18 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got a link? I'd like to see that. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 7:17:30 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Got a link? I'd like to see that. That's impressive considering MK262 Mod 1 is a roughly 1 moa capable loading. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 8:38:03 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks. That's impressive considering MK262 Mod 1 is a roughly 1 moa capable loading. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 11:27:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was wondering if it was anyone I've heard of. Also a credibility thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: What is the guy's name? Also a credibility thing. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 12:48:14 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll just have to suffer the loss of credibility....Its more important to me to keep his confidence in me than the little bit of loss I suffer here. Sorry.. I probably should have just not said anything. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 1:24:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All that energy put into the barrel, and they can't port them even close to sensibly. Boggles my mind. I'd be all over those things if they had different porting. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 1:44:23 PM EDT
[#35]
A family member of mine has the 12" and it was very overgassed, but accurate. He put an AGB on it.
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Posted: 2/9/2020 4:44:46 PM EDT
[#36]
I do not have a picture of a worn stealth BBL, but do have an older scope photo of the port on a new/unfired 14.5" midlength:
The bore overall showed really nice finishing for what it costs and I was very impressed with how it looked compared to others in, and slightly above, its price class. I did not end up using it after purchase because the port measured .085", which was larger than the .078" or so I am used to seeing on similar barrels that handle suppressors and high-pressure ammunition well. I can compare it to a new Ballistic Advantage, from their premium line: 
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Posted: 2/9/2020 9:44:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mk262 mod 1 is capable of FAR better, per spec. Something like 1/3moa from a test barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Thanks. That's impressive considering MK262 Mod 1 is a roughly 1 moa capable loading. It’s always seemed to do about 1 MOA plus or minus a tenth on average. I searched your buddy’s name and he showed up as one of the prominent Hodge dealers. No offense, but if someone has potential financial gain attached to their data I’m going to remain skeptical. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 10:40:36 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll just have to suffer the loss of credibility....Its more important to me to keep his confidence in me than the little bit of loss I suffer here. Sorry.. I probably should have just not said anything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: What is the guy's name? Also a credibility thing. Mark shows his barrel production shop on his website. His barrels shoot as well as a lot of other button rifled stainless match AR barrels. Guess what? The top barrel manufacturers will tell you exactly what their barrels are made of and the processes used to make them. Take Krieger for example, or Bartlien. The whole secret sauce spiel is tiresome. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 10:49:50 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The first group had 1 round pretty far right, then 3 close and one further left. In the second group, it grouped decent, but was ~1.5” lower than the POI from the first group. This is similar to what I’ve experienced in a previous barrel, and it wasn’t subjected to FA/Mag dumps. Any idea if they heat treat/stress relieve following boring/rifling? |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 10:54:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn’t know about that, but I’ve been shooting AA53 for around 13 years and the non 5.56 pressure loads before that. It’s always seemed to do about 1 MOA plus or minus a tenth on average. I searched your buddy’s name and he showed up as one of the prominent Hodge dealers. No offense, but if someone has potential financial gain attached to their data I’m going to remain skeptical. |
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Posted: 2/9/2020 10:55:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I get weary of folks trying to allude to secret materials, specs, and processes. Mark shows his barrel production shop on his website. His barrels shoot as well as a lot of other button rifled stainless match AR barrels. Guess what? The top barrel manufacturers will tell you exactly what their barrels are made of and the processes used to make them. Take Krieger for example, or Bartlien. The whole secret sauce spiel is tiresome. |
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Posted: 2/10/2020 9:14:29 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get weary of folks trying to allude to secret materials, specs, and processes. Mark shows his barrel production shop on his website. His barrels shoot as well as a lot of other button rifled stainless match AR barrels. Guess what? The top barrel manufacturers will tell you exactly what their barrels are made of and the processes used to make them. Take Krieger for example, or Bartlien. The whole secret sauce spiel is tiresome. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: What is the guy's name? Also a credibility thing. Mark shows his barrel production shop on his website. His barrels shoot as well as a lot of other button rifled stainless match AR barrels. Guess what? The top barrel manufacturers will tell you exactly what their barrels are made of and the processes used to make them. Take Krieger for example, or Bartlien. The whole secret sauce spiel is tiresome. Have a nice day!! |
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Posted: 2/10/2020 10:18:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No you are right...all it takes a round piece of steel and a good machine shop to pump out great barrels...And anyone will tell you exactly how they do it. Just ask..So Mark will be waiting for your call. Have a nice day!! https://bartleinbarrels.com/barrel-faq/ It’s actually a really good read for anyone interested. They also have videos on YouTube of their barrel making process. |
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Posted: 2/10/2020 10:50:39 PM EDT
[#44]
I've had three Larue barrels, minus the one that had to be exchanged for a defect.
The first, a 16" (UHFO Upper) was incredibly accurate, but incredibly picky when it came to what load shot accurately. I sold the barrel and replaced it with.... The second, an 18" is accurate and doesn't seem to care what handload I shoot. It likes everything. The third is a 12" that is also extremely accurate, but I haven't really put through its paces yet. I decided I wanted a lighter SBR setup so used a different barrel. Still have the barrel, waiting to build it up. Not even 75 rounds through it yet. |
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Posted: 2/10/2020 11:04:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted:
I was just wondering how durable are Larue Stealth barrels. I have a 16" complete Stealth upper and was thinking of getting it cut to 11.5". Or maybe getting an 11.5" Centurion barrel to replace Stealth barrel with. How much of a hard use barrel is the Stealth? Me personally I put hundreds to a couple thousand through my rifles a year (including my larue) and I've never had an issue. For the record I have colt, bcm, DPMS, and Larue barrels and haven't seen any drop in groups in 15+ years of shooting. I wouldn't replace anything based on some concern. Shoot it however you like, accuracy, mag dumps, bump stock barrel burn outs, whatever your thing is. If the groups open up or start key holing replace the barrel. |
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Posted: 2/20/2020 5:43:44 PM EDT
[#46]
I have a larue rifle with a lightweight barrel. It has had the piss shot out of it for the last 3 years including two rifle classes. It shoots moa. Sub moa when I do my part with good ammo.
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Posted: 2/21/2020 12:53:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bartlien is pretty transparent: https://bartleinbarrels.com/barrel-faq/ It’s actually a really good read for anyone interested. They also have videos on YouTube of their barrel making process. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: No you are right...all it takes a round piece of steel and a good machine shop to pump out great barrels...And anyone will tell you exactly how they do it. Just ask..So Mark will be waiting for your call. Have a nice day!! https://bartleinbarrels.com/barrel-faq/ It’s actually a really good read for anyone interested. They also have videos on YouTube of their barrel making process. |
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Posted: 2/21/2020 10:03:19 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean how much are you honestly shooting it? I have shooting buddies who are putting 10's of thousands of rounds through a rifle in a course of a few years. My one friend who competes has a colt with almost 80,000 rounds and it still runs fine no key holing and combat accurate groups. These guys don't care, if they spend that much in ammo they look at a barrel as a disposable item. Quote HistoryQuoted: I mean how much are you honestly shooting it? I have shooting buddies who are putting 10's of thousands of rounds through a rifle in a course of a few years. My one friend who competes has a colt with almost 80,000 rounds and it still runs fine no key holing and combat accurate groups. These guys don't care, if they spend that much in ammo they look at a barrel as a disposable item. Quoted:
I've seen others complain about POI shift on LT barrels, as well. |
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Posted: 2/22/2020 10:11:40 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks for posting that. There's a lot interesting stuff on the website. Opinions from people actually producing results count more. That article has the best explanation I've read for why cut rifling produces top notch barrels more consistently than button rifling. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: No you are right...all it takes a round piece of steel and a good machine shop to pump out great barrels...And anyone will tell you exactly how they do it. Just ask..So Mark will be waiting for your call. Have a nice day!! https://bartleinbarrels.com/barrel-faq/ It’s actually a really good read for anyone interested. They also have videos on YouTube of their barrel making process. One of the things mentioned in that FAQ is a gain twist, which improves accuracy and barrel life. But with a button rifled barrel, it is possible to have a slight reverse gain where the twist rate decreases further down the bore, which leads to fliers. The process is less precise for rifling. That being said, there are many excellent button rifled barrels being produced that don’t have that problem. In my opinion, if you want excellent accuracy you’re going to pay for it, just because of the extra labor and QC that goes into producing a superior barrel. As far as durability and longevity of a barrel goes, the biggest factor is going to be the firing schedule if you ask me. |
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Posted: 2/22/2020 10:38:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Send me the part you cut off, we have a fancy machine at work that will tell me what material it is.
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