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Posted: 1/24/2022 11:49:20 AM EDT
I know this is one of those quintessential topics like whether you can leave mags loaded or not, but it's always interesting to get people's different opinions and experiences.

I've always thought a minimum of 500 rounds was best, and of course make sure you have a mixture of .223 and 5.56, with any bullet weight you intend to use in that mix.

What say you?

No poll since there may be a gazillion opinions.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 11:58:14 AM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:
I know this is one of those quintessential topics like whether you can leave mags loaded or not, but it's always interesting to get people's different opinions and experiences.

I've always thought a minimum of 500 rounds was best, and of course make sure you have a mixture of .223 and 5.56, with any bullet weight you intend to use in that mix.

What say you?

No poll since there may be a gazillion opinions.
View Quote


7
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 11:58:46 AM EDT
[#2]
Depending on the brand but ARs today are almost like glocks in the reliability department. If I go and switch parts around I'd probably test but if it's good after 2 or 3 range trips 250-500 rounds with 100% reliability I call it good.


Other guns I'll give a break in period of a few hundred rounds and forgive any minor malfunctions but keep an eye out.

Link Posted: 1/24/2022 11:59:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By QCMGR:


7
View Quote


Don't you mean "87"?

Link Posted: 1/24/2022 12:28:36 PM EDT
[#4]
50 with no failures 200 if you need to be sure.  If it’s got a burr in the gas port or something is not right you should know in the first 50.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 12:49:46 PM EDT
[#5]
I'd say if you've got around 200 or so rounds through it of the ammo you intend to use and no malfunctions you're pretty much good to go. I like to make sure that I can feed mine pretty much anything and have it function. So, I throw some junk ammo in there too to see how it behaves. Overall though, if you have a pretty basic set up and haven't tried to throw a bunch of gimmicky shit on there, chances are it's going run well.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 1:02:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Interesting read HERE

Attachment Attached File


Attachment Attached File



The random 6k endurance test would be amazing.  
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 1:06:39 PM EDT
[#7]
I take 20-50 rounds of 3-4 different types of ammo (FMJ, HP) in different weights. I’ll run same type & weight first then a mix. If a suppressed rig then I add more variations of types & weights.

If issues happen I can narrow down the type of bullet and weight to see if I have an issue that needs to be resolved.

If all is good I focus on certain weights to get the best set-up.

Goes for any rifle or handgun I buy/build.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 1:07:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DocApocalypse] [#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
Interesting read HERE
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
Interesting read HERE


That article also has an interesting sidebar on who owns or doesn't own the term "M4".


Who Owns The M4 Name?


APPARENTLY no one, according to a federal court. The term is generic. The United States District Court in Maine recently ruled that
Colt does not own a valid tradem ark for the designation “M4.” The decision cam e in a summary judgmen t gran ted in favor of
Bushm aster Firearm s in a tradem ark case brought by Colt Defense, in which Colt accused Bushmaster of infringing on the “M4” trademark and the trade dress of the M4, both of which Colt claimed it owned to the exclusion of others in the industry.

In addition to denying Colt’s infringem ent claim s, the Court granted judgment for Bushmaster on its claim for cancellation of Colt’s
federal trademark registration for the name “M4.” Bushmaster spokesman and chairman, Richard Dyke, said he is gratified with the decision , not only for Bushmaster, but for the entire firearm s industry. “Colt has for years made all sorts of claims [about intellectual
property], but this case clearly shows Colt has been overstating its rights. In this case, the Court determined that the right to use the M4 term and to sell firearms that look like the M4 type, are rights that belong to the industry, not just Colt.”

The Court’s order affirm ed a prior recommended decision of a U.S. Magistrate Judge in the case. Among other things, the Magistrate’s decision held that “M4” is a generic term that merely describes a type of firearm , and is not an identifier of Colt as a sole source for such firearms.
In doing so, the decision noted that more than a dozen firearm manufacturers other than Colt have used the term M4 for years to refer to military-style carbines with collapsible buttstocks and shortened barrels. Since the M4 term is generic, the Court gran ted judgment for Bushmaster that Colt’s federal trademark registration forthe M4 should be cancelled.

The court also dismissed Colt’s claim for infringement of M4 trade dress, both because the alleged trade dress is primarily non-functional and because Colt could not establish that the buying public associated the look of the M4 only with Colt. Additionally, the Court dismissed Colt’s claims for
infringement of the term s M16, CAR, Match Target, AR-15 and Commando because it concluded that there was no likelihood of confusion among purchasers as to the source of Bushmaster’s products. The court also held that Colt could recover no damages on its only remaining claim under Section 43(a) of the Lanham Act.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 2:13:24 PM EDT
[#9]
I use 193 ammo, mainly, so I am not worried about proving across different types of ammo, so I use 150-200 rounds as the number....knowing the rifle will loosen up as more rounds go down the barrel, if I am good with 200 rounds, then the rifle is GTG

Link Posted: 1/24/2022 3:57:59 PM EDT
[#10]
I have owned A LOT of new ARs over the years, and once I focused exclusively on Colt, Daniel Defense, and LMT I found I didn't need to "test" the individual carbine as much as years ago when I had "other brands".

Honestly, with a quality AR I think you're going to see if there are any issues within the first two magazines.  

This is how I typically vet an AR:

1st Range Trip ... zero sights & optic ... usually 60-90 rounds
2nd Range Trip ... confirm zero ... usually 30-60 rounds
3rd Range Trip ... drills ... usually 60-120 rounds

After the 3rd trip I feel like the gun is "tested" and I "trust" it.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 4:13:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:


Don't you mean "87"?

View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:
Originally Posted By QCMGR:


7


Don't you mean "87"?




You would think…but 7 - 10 is good!
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 4:18:40 PM EDT
[#12]
I had an upper that was fucky and didn't discover it until it had nearly 200 rounds through it.  It worked with 18 out of 20 magazines.  Took it to a gunsmith who told me that it was not aligned properly, and I had already discovered on my own that the barrel extension's feed ramps hung over the cuts in the upper by about the thickness of a piece of paper.

I had a brand new Colt 6720 with a messed up gas ring that I didn't detect until I removed the bolt for cleaning.  It ran fine through its first range trip.  Of course a new gas ring is an easy fix, but I wonder how many range trips it would have functioned fine through with that one gas ring messed up?
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 4:37:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd:
50 with no failures 200 if you need to be sure.  If it’s got a burr in the gas port or something is not right you should know in the first 50.
View Quote

This right here.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 4:41:55 PM EDT
[#14]
Originally Posted By DocGlockster:

What say you?
View Quote


However many it takes to get the barrel and suppressor smoking hot, and cook all the oil off.  Then she's broke in.

Link Posted: 1/24/2022 4:42:12 PM EDT
[#15]
All of them so far.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 5:37:47 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Urimaginaryfrnd:
50 with no failures 200 if you need to be sure.  If it’s got a burr in the gas port or something is not right you should know in the first 50.
View Quote

Pretty much where I am at too.  The only issues I have ran into with about 12 builds and 3-4 factory uppers were only failure to lock bolt back due to buffer choice.  The only other issues are mag related.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 5:58:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
I have owned A LOT of new ARs over the years, and once I focused exclusively on Colt, Daniel Defense, and LMT I found I didn't need to "test" the individual carbine as much as years ago when I had "other brands".

Honestly, with a quality AR I think you're going to see if there are any issues within the first two magazines.  

This is how I typically vet an AR:

1st Range Trip ... zero sights & optic ... usually 60-90 rounds
2nd Range Trip ... confirm zero ... usually 30-60 rounds
3rd Range Trip ... drills ... usually 60-120 rounds

After the 3rd trip I feel like the gun is "tested" and I "trust" it.
View Quote

Yeah. This is pretty much my routine. Of course of all the rifles & pistols I've ever purchased or assembled I've only ever had two malfunctions that were not magazine related.

Both were stuck steel cases. One laquered wolf .223 stuck in my Windham Weaponry and one dry Winchester 9mm in my Sig VTAC — these Sigs have notoriously tight tolerances. I've never had a broken extractor, bolt, firing pin. I do keep an organizer with plenty of spare springs, triggers, charging handles, BCM bolt rebuild kits, etc.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 6:28:50 PM EDT
[#18]
I usually take 300 of cheap stuff to shake down a new rifle, put together by me or factory. If it has no issues I trust it after that.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 6:32:13 PM EDT
[#19]
Firearm is disassemble, inspected, cleaned and lubed.  500 rounds with no more lube or cleaning.  Two trips to the range firing the firearm slow fire, rapid fire, then cyclic.  Goes of FA firearms and semi.  I then disassemble, re inspect, clean and lube.  So far crossing my fingers, I've never had a weapon go down on me.  Good luck, confidence is half the battle.
Link Posted: 1/24/2022 6:55:06 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HackSawTom:
Firearm is disassemble, inspected, cleaned and lubed.  500 rounds with no more lube or cleaning.  Two trips to the range firing the firearm slow fire, rapid fire, then cyclic.  Goes of FA firearms and semi.  I then disassemble, re inspect, clean and lube.  So far crossing my fingers, I've never had a weapon go down on me.  Good luck, confidence is half the battle.
View Quote


LoL…
Link Posted: 1/27/2022 9:05:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By imdBman:

Pretty much where I am at too.  The only issues I have ran into with about 12 builds and 3-4 factory uppers were only failure to lock bolt back due to buffer choice.  The only other issues are mag related.
View Quote

Yep - only troubles I've had (without parts breakage) post break in (let's call it 200 rounds) were mag or buffer related and easily solved.

When you use stuff, parts break. Keep tools and spare parts and learn how to fix it yourself.
Link Posted: 1/27/2022 11:43:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GaryT1776:
I have owned A LOT of new ARs over the years, and once I focused exclusively on Colt, Daniel Defense, and LMT I found I didn't need to "test" the individual carbine as much as years ago when I had "other brands".

Honestly, with a quality AR I think you're going to see if there are any issues within the first two magazines.  

This is how I typically vet an AR:

1st Range Trip ... zero sights & optic ... usually 60-90 rounds
2nd Range Trip ... confirm zero ... usually 30-60 rounds
3rd Range Trip ... drills ... usually 60-120 rounds

After the 3rd trip I feel like the gun is "tested" and I "trust" it.
View Quote


Pretty much this
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 2:13:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Like 3-500 rounds of the shittiest ammo I can get.

If it can do a like 300 rounds of Tula .223 unsuppressed, it's fine.
Link Posted: 1/28/2022 2:29:24 PM EDT
[#24]
For those saying 500 rounds to be “trusted” is this the same number for any other firearm that you purchase?  

Link Posted: 1/28/2022 2:30:29 PM EDT
[#25]
225
Link Posted: 2/19/2022 6:04:45 AM EDT
[#26]
two range trips or 300 rds, whichever comes first.

Link Posted: 2/19/2022 10:05:23 AM EDT
[#27]
69 rounds based on my calculations.


Honestly it depends for me. Like my shit ass Grendel upper.  It shot beautifully the first day out.  Shout about 40 rounds and no issues. Next day out the same gun and ammo started having issues after 10 rounds.  Gun was so overgassed that the cases were bouncing back into the ejection port.  Not sure what happened, I just assumed there was something obstructing gas that slowly cleared itself out.  

Generally I settle on 200 rounds.  Seems like that gives it enough for the barrel to settle down and everything to run well.
Link Posted: 2/19/2022 10:17:56 AM EDT
[#28]
Based on the FBI data of how many rounds fired in a self-defense situation, my personal standard is 3 rounds.

Now I know you mean how many rounds fired before you can say it's good but I always take the first 3 shots the most serious at a range. I had a .380 once that the first couple of rounds sometimes wouldn't work but after playing with it for a while, I decided to get rid of it despite it being reliable after shooting a few mags out of it. I feel some guns work differently when you shoot a few magazines through it. Sometimes they work better sometimes they work a little worse but the first few shots are the most critical in my opinion.
Link Posted: 2/19/2022 11:23:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Gidon] [#29]
For manufacturers known for good, better or outstanding quality control:
I start to get comfortable with an AR after 420 rounds through 14 different but previously vetted mags with the ammo you plan to use without a malfunction.

Vetted mag = minimum of three full cycles without a malfunction.

An AR also needs at least 7 mags rapid fire for me. You need to know it still runs when it is hot.

Link Posted: 2/19/2022 1:19:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: panthermark] [#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By oxford411:
For those saying 500 rounds to be “trusted” is this the same number for any other firearm that you purchase?  

View Quote

Excellent question

EDC weapon?
Shotty?
Bolt action?
Lever action?
Revolver?

For my AR's, it is somewhere around 120 rounds....and that has to do with 30 rounds mags combined with ammo that comes in 20 round packs.

ETA, that is usually split over two range trips.   When I go to the range, I take more than one gun.   So I'm usually firing a couple of mags each through a couple of different weapons.
Link Posted: 2/19/2022 4:41:41 PM EDT
[#31]
For any firearm, I'm in the mag range. So for an AR, 90 rounds. Pistols, 30-50 rounds. Most problems will be evident rather quickly.

At some point, a problem will occur. When is that point for a random broken spring? After 3000 rounds, you might break a spring or rod. Who knows when it will happen. Do you keep it in the safe and away from duty until it occurs?

For magazines, each new one that I buy gets several load/unload tests before a range test. After that they are good by me.  

Honestly, with any new firearm, take it to the range and get comfortable with it. Break it in. After that, it is tried, tested, and trusted.
Link Posted: 2/19/2022 4:58:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NN300BLK] [#32]
Shouldn't this depend on a lot of factors (manufacturer, components, maintenance, rifle history, intended use, etc.)? I could see a different "break-in period" for a given rifle depending on all these factors.

I would think it is a good idea to do function checks initially and then at appropriate intervals.
Link Posted: 2/19/2022 5:06:58 PM EDT
[#33]
200 rounds, same as for a pistol
Link Posted: 2/20/2022 2:01:31 AM EDT
[#34]
1 range trip with at least 2 full mags, as well as 1 thorough cleaning, together with disassembly and parts inspection.  Not calipers and gauges mind you, just overall fitment of the parts and general build quality.  Mags are probably more important I feel, I like to have a few fill/reload sequences on each one before I fully trust them.
Link Posted: 2/20/2022 3:30:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Mine is considered “tested” once it has so many rounds through it that is has a catastrophic failure, then and only then do I consider it to be reliable…

Link Posted: 2/23/2022 5:00:05 PM EDT
[#36]
I don’t worry so much about round count but more about what types of ammo and mags it does or doesn’t like. I usually try for at least three different brands of ammo in three different makers mags.

A malfunction can happen anytime. If there’s something in the assembly done wrong it’ll probably be apparent on the first round or two. Beyond that, who knows?

If I had to pick a number, 100 rounds.
Link Posted: 2/23/2022 5:29:41 PM EDT
[#37]
With ammo so expensive shoot 1 or 2 of every type of ammo you have and from a variety of mags. 30 rounds successfully fired through a depth of variety should do it.
Link Posted: 2/23/2022 7:09:07 PM EDT
[#38]
500ish if its going to be my home defense gun etc and idc what the ammo price is to give me that piece of mind.
Link Posted: 2/23/2022 8:49:11 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By oxford411:
For those saying 500 rounds to be “trusted” is this the same number for any other firearm that you purchase?  

View Quote


For me yes. 500 rounds for any gun. Build or factory. Now I just keep a ball park number. I tend to take it once shoot it and sight it in. That day can be 60 rounds or 200.  Bring it home clean and inspect then take it a few 3 guns to get the round count up. Pretty easy to get to 500
Link Posted: 2/24/2022 12:45:38 PM EDT
[#40]
I've never really considered this with one exception. If I run into issues early on, I will need a fair number of rounds through it before I can shoot with confidence.  This is particularly true if I don't find an obvious reason for the issue(s).  

The ARs I've built have all been GTG from day one other than a 7.62x39 that had the hammer spring in backwards resulting in a lot of failures to fire.  Fixed that and it's been rock solid since.

I had a Beretta .380 that has intermittent reliability issues. I bought it used from my little sister (no pics) so I've just dealt with it.  I thought I had it fixed and took it to league only to run into problems on the 3rd mag.  I almost never shoot it any more.

I shoot often enough that all my guns have a lot of rounds through them and I have full confidence in them.  I have a new pistol build that only has about 50 rounds through it that I wouldn't take into a firefight I guess (especially  since I have many other options).  It's 300 blk and that stuff is hard to find and really expensive around here.
Link Posted: 2/24/2022 1:19:48 PM EDT
[#41]
87 rounds of course!
Link Posted: 2/24/2022 2:14:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Couple of mags of steel cased, and a couple of mags of defensive (hot) ammo.

Link Posted: 2/24/2022 2:59:00 PM EDT
[#43]
I'd probably be in the 500 ish range and that would be a mix of light shooting and faster heavier shooting. In my limited experience failures , at least for me, have happened more often when the temps get up there with repeated firing.

Link Posted: 2/24/2022 3:00:59 PM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sajer:
I'd probably be in the 500 ish range and that would be a mix of light shooting and faster heavier shooting. In my limited experience failures , at least for me, have happened more often when the temps get up there with repeated firing.

View Quote


When I buy a new weapon, I usually will do one 30-round mag dump to stress it a little and test it for reliability in rapid fire.  After that I treat it properly and let it cool between mags.
Link Posted: 2/24/2022 3:14:17 PM EDT
[#45]
223
Link Posted: 2/24/2022 3:20:37 PM EDT
[#46]
If I assembled the rifle, I can call it good before firing a single shot. When I land at the range, I'm there to zero the optic and measure barrel accuracy, not check for malfunctions, and no offense to those that do, but that's because I'm not assembling a rifle on a $500 budget.

Out of the box, I can personally trust Colt, FN, Daniel Defense, Bravo Company, and a few other manufacturers without firing a single shot. Of course, I field strip them, check the bore, bolt, rings, feedramps, general tolerances, remove the factory grease or lube, etc., but again, when I land at the range, I'm not there to check for malfunctions.

Link Posted: 2/24/2022 6:33:39 PM EDT
[#47]
It's really difficult to say. Ever taken a series carbine course?

Lots of folks with "proven" rifles that they never had an issue with, start dropping like flies by the end of day one. My last course of 14 guys, 3 of them had failures by the end of the day.
Link Posted: 2/24/2022 6:40:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By alpha0815:
It's really difficult to say. Ever taken a series carbine course?

Lots of folks with "proven" rifles that they never had an issue with, start dropping like flies by the end of day one. My last course of 14 guys, 3 of them had failures by the end of the day.
View Quote


Good point.  A rifle that performs flawlessly at a static range might choke in the heat of a high-round-count carbine course.  This is one argument in favor of always buying the highest quality weapon you can afford.

Still, not everyone, even if using a carbine in a defensive situation, is going to subject their weapon to the abuse that a carbine course can dish out.  Even in a home invasion or a neighborhood riot situation an AR owner might not even remotely approach the round count of a carbine course.  

So, in a way, "Tested and Trusted" is relative to a person's individual requirements as well.  Someone who shoots for a living might need to take his weapon through a class in order to trust it; a 63-year-old homeowner might get by just getting his weapon a little hot at the range.

Good call.
Link Posted: 2/24/2022 7:01:50 PM EDT
[#49]
About 1000 rounds of plinking, drills and training before Ill use mine as a duty gun.
Link Posted: 2/25/2022 2:14:29 AM EDT
[#50]
Depends, battle rifles that get rebarreled or worked on get a mag of semi, then a few bursts on auto followed by long burst both suppressed and unsuppressed for functions test (60 rds).  Then back out to the customer.

Personal guns after a day or two of heavy drills (about 200-500 rds)

CD
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