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Posted: 1/26/2022 3:22:58 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Proven, repeatable velocities of two different lots of common, off the shelf M855, chronographed from five different Colt barrels. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/IMI_m855_muzzle_velocities-1984289.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/imi_m855_2009_chrono_data_02b-1984403.jpg Black Hills MK262 chronographed from three different Colt barrels. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/blackhills_mk262_muzzle_velocities_03-1984309.jpg ….. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Will you be doing a velocity comparison? Everyone claims the hodge barrels have much higher velocities than similar lengths. Quoted: Proven, repeatable velocities of common off the shelf 855 (from Hodge rifles) . . . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/hodge_barrel_velocities_with_m855-1984409.jpg Proven, repeatable velocities of two different lots of common, off the shelf M855, chronographed from five different Colt barrels. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/IMI_m855_muzzle_velocities-1984289.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/imi_m855_2009_chrono_data_02b-1984403.jpg Quoted: Black Hills MK262 (from Hodge rifles) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/hodge_barrel_velocities_with_mk262-1984292.jpg Black Hills MK262 chronographed from three different Colt barrels. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/blackhills_mk262_muzzle_velocities_03-1984309.jpg ….. Goddamn, that made me LOL. Great to have you posting again, Molon! |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 4:48:54 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Proven, repeatable velocities of two different lots of common, off the shelf M855, chronographed from five different Colt barrels. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/IMI_m855_muzzle_velocities-1984289.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/imi_m855_2009_chrono_data_02b-1984403.jpg Black Hills MK262 chronographed from three different Colt barrels. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/blackhills_mk262_muzzle_velocities_03-1984309.jpg ….. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Will you be doing a velocity comparison? Everyone claims the hodge barrels have much higher velocities than similar lengths. Quoted: Proven, repeatable velocities of common off the shelf 855 (from Hodge rifles) . . . https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/hodge_barrel_velocities_with_m855-1984409.jpg Proven, repeatable velocities of two different lots of common, off the shelf M855, chronographed from five different Colt barrels. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/IMI_m855_muzzle_velocities-1984289.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/imi_m855_2009_chrono_data_02b-1984403.jpg Quoted: Black Hills MK262 (from Hodge rifles) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/hodge_barrel_velocities_with_mk262-1984292.jpg Black Hills MK262 chronographed from three different Colt barrels. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/28568/blackhills_mk262_muzzle_velocities_03-1984309.jpg ….. "if you know, you know" yO jOe bUt hOdGe hAtErS gOnNa hAtE Thank you Molon, once again. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 5:07:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "if you know, you know" yO jOe bUt hOdGe hAtErS gOnNa hAtE Thank you Molon, once again. My spine lock knows.... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:36:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In theory it should equate to longer barrel life using lower pressure ammo Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A barrel being optimized for M855A1 on the civilian market is a baffling selling point for me since that stuff doesn't exactly exist in any form of abundance. Great post Molon, love seeing your content In theory it should equate to longer barrel life using lower pressure ammo It’s a great marketing tactic.. proof in point being all the people it has worked on. The issue is what does ‘optimized’ mean.. how is the barrel optimized for A1? the fact that the word is used in product descriptions to create an illusion that there is something special about the barrel, yet no one comes out to Define what that means, is telling. IMHO It’s a FN barrel with the same steel that they use on all of their CHF barrels, and the same chrome lining process. It’s just a different profile that hodge paid extra for, which partly explains the cost difference between say a FN spikes and the hodge, the rest is just hype and IG cred driven. I’d love to be proven wrong. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:43:32 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My spine lock knows.... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "if you know, you know" yO jOe bUt hOdGe hAtErS gOnNa hAtE Thank you Molon, once again. My spine lock knows.... Now go ahead and use it 
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Posted: 1/26/2022 9:17:15 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hodge is the “Supreme” of the gun world. I have never regretted spending money on a quality barrel. But anything Hodge is always marked up for the "exclusivity." A hundred bucks less would have me more interested, especially considering other quality offerings in that range. @Molon I have been informed by the powers that be, that you can't make comments about the "finish" of a rail without also providing a detailed technical review of finish hardness and thickness, dimensional accuracy of length-width and of the rail slots, and detailed analysis of structural integrity, all while performing the traditional arfcom larping dance! Hahahah Great writeup as always! |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 9:36:49 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Molon I have been informed by the powers that be, that you can't make comments about the "finish" of a rail without also providing a detailed technical review of finish hardness and thickness, dimensional accuracy of length-width and of the rail slots, and detailed analysis of structural integrity, all while performing the traditional arfcom larping dance! Hahahah The hypocrites on this website always demand that everyone else has to definitively prove how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, yet they themselves are rarely able to post any of their own first hand data to support their claims. ... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 12:41:37 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why did Geissele and Daniel Defense market the URGI with a 855A1 optimized barrel? Link to Daniel Defense's marketing of the URG-I for M855A1? ... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 1:16:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link to Daniel Defense's marketing of the URG-I for M855A1? ... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why did Geissele and Daniel Defense market the URGI with a 855A1 optimized barrel? Link to Daniel Defense's marketing of the URG-I for M855A1? ... You are right…as far as I know DD never did market it for the A1, everyone else did. Every description of the URGI describes the barrel as “Optimized.” |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 1:29:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are right…as far as I know DD never did market it for the A1, everyone else did. Every description of the URGI describes the barrel as “Optimized.” Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why did Geissele and Daniel Defense market the URGI with a 855A1 optimized barrel? Link to Daniel Defense's marketing of the URG-I for M855A1? ... You are right…as far as I know DD never did market it for the A1, everyone else did. Every description of the URGI describes the barrel as “Optimized.” And yet you posted this false statement anyways to deflect Glock63s question . . . Quoted: Why did Geissele and Daniel Defense market the URGI with a 855A1 optimized barrel? .... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 1:59:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And yet you posted this false statement anyways to deflect Glock63s question . . . .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why did Geissele and Daniel Defense market the URGI with a 855A1 optimized barrel? Link to Daniel Defense's marketing of the URG-I for M855A1? ... You are right…as far as I know DD never did market it for the A1, everyone else did. Every description of the URGI describes the barrel as “Optimized.” And yet you posted this false statement anyways to deflect Glock63s question . . . Quoted: Why did Geissele and Daniel Defense market the URGI with a 855A1 optimized barrel? .... I guess I should have said Geissele and every other retailer or article written on the URGI advertised it as being “Optimized” |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 2:23:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess I should have said Geissele and every other retailer or article written on the URGI advertised it as being “Optimized” Yet not the actual manufacturer of the barrel. Geissele's claims have already been shown to be false. ... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 2:30:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yet not the actual manufacturer of the barrel. Geissele's claims have already been shown to be false. ... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I guess I should have said Geissele and every other retailer or article written on the URGI advertised it as being “Optimized” Yet not the actual manufacturer of the barrel. Geissele's claims have already been shown to be false. ... I’m not a Geissele fanboy, I’m not a Hodge fanboy, IMO Hodge should have stuck with the DD in his guns. Both manufacturers have grown too big to fast and the qa/qc has suffered. In saying that Geissele owned up to the DD barrel special sauce myth. A industry partner will hook you up with 855a1, test your Hodge barrel against a Colt SOCOM and see what one lasts longer. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 2:39:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not a Geissele fanboy, I’m not a Hodge fanboy, IMO Hodge should have stuck with the DD in his guns. Both manufacturers have grown too big to fast and the qa/qc has suffered. In saying that Geissele owned up to the DD barrel special sauce myth. A industry partner will hook you up with 855a1, test your Hodge barrel against a Colt SOCOM and see what one lasts longer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess I should have said Geissele and every other retailer or article written on the URGI advertised it as being “Optimized” Yet not the actual manufacturer of the barrel. Geissele's claims have already been shown to be false. ... I’m not a Geissele fanboy, I’m not a Hodge fanboy, IMO Hodge should have stuck with the DD in his guns. Both manufacturers have grown too big to fast and the qa/qc has suffered. In saying that Geissele owned up to the DD barrel special sauce myth. A industry partner will hook you up with 855a1, test your Hodge barrel against a Colt SOCOM and see what one lasts longer. That comparison would be interesting. What would be even more interesting is testing a FN hodge against an FN spikes or FN PSA for example. Again my hunch is that the only difference between the two is profile. To my knowledge, Nothing has been proven otherwise. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 2:58:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That comparison would be interesting. What would be even more interesting is testing a FN hodge against an FN spikes or FN PSA for example. Again my hunch is that the only difference between the two is profile. To my knowledge, Nothing has been proven otherwise. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I guess I should have said Geissele and every other retailer or article written on the URGI advertised it as being “Optimized” Yet not the actual manufacturer of the barrel. Geissele's claims have already been shown to be false. ... I’m not a Geissele fanboy, I’m not a Hodge fanboy, IMO Hodge should have stuck with the DD in his guns. Both manufacturers have grown too big to fast and the qa/qc has suffered. In saying that Geissele owned up to the DD barrel special sauce myth. A industry partner will hook you up with 855a1, test your Hodge barrel against a Colt SOCOM and see what one lasts longer. That comparison would be interesting. What would be even more interesting is testing a FN hodge against an FN spikes or FN PSA for example. Again my hunch is that the only difference between the two is profile. To my knowledge, Nothing has been proven otherwise. Maybe some minor differences in finishing, QC, etc. But they may not be completely discernable. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 3:08:30 PM EDT
[#16]
I’d like to send a Spikes, PSA, regular FN and Hodge off to be analyzed.
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Posted: 1/26/2022 3:16:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d like to send a Spikes, PSA, regular FN and Hodge off to be analyzed. To make any type of valid comparison the barrel compared to the Hodge would have to be an FN barrel in the same price range, such as a Noveske. .... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 3:20:33 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To make any type a valid comparison the barrel compared to the Hodge would have to be an FN barrel in the same price range, such as a Noveske. .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’d like to send a Spikes, PSA, regular FN and Hodge off to be analyzed. To make any type a valid comparison the barrel compared to the Hodge would have to be an FN barrel in the same price range, such as a Noveske. .... I’d send a Noveske too, everyone says it’s all the same steel I’d want to see if it actually is. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 3:22:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d send a Noveske too, everyone says it’s all the same steel I’d want to see if it actually is. I've never said it's the same steel. I said that if you want to claim that your steel is super special you need to post actual data to prove it. .... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 3:45:14 PM EDT
[#20]
off topic but we keep listing who makes barrels. who makes the BRT CHF barrels?
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Posted: 1/26/2022 3:50:54 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never said it's the same steel. I said that if you want to claim that your steel is super special you need to post actual data to prove it. .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’d send a Noveske too, everyone says it’s all the same steel I’d want to see if it actually is. I've never said it's the same steel. I said that if you want to claim that your steel is super special you need to post actual data to prove it. .... So what would it take for you to say “yep these are the most durable barrels ever developed” We have members that were in the know with the SEP and we have members who actually shoot for Hodge Defense competitively who have 20,000 plus rounds on their guns. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 3:57:42 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what would it take for you to say “yep these are the most durable barrels ever developed” We have members that were in the know with the SEP and we have members who actually shoot for Hodge Defense competitively who have 20,000 plus rounds on their guns. Claiming that someone is "in the know" is not data. That's what is needed. That's what is missing. .... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 4:36:05 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Claiming that someone is "in the know" is not data. That's what is needed. That's what is missing. .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So what would it take for you to say “yep these are the most durable barrels ever developed” We have members that were in the know with the SEP and we have members who actually shoot for Hodge Defense competitively who have 20,000 plus rounds on their guns. Claiming that someone is "in the know" is not data. That's what is needed. That's what is missing. .... So the member involved or in the know with the SEP program is a respected member and SME but you can’t take his word for it? Maybe he is bound by NDAs or classified info Are all the industry partners that signed NDAs to sell Hodge barrels lying when they say they are definitely different? Why do we take your word for your accuracy tests? For all anyone knows you could be cherry picking groups or even distance of the test. Do I think you are doing that ? No |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 4:44:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To make any type a valid comparison the barrel compared to the Hodge would have to be an FN barrel in the same price range, such as a Noveske. .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’d like to send a Spikes, PSA, regular FN and Hodge off to be analyzed. To make any type a valid comparison the barrel compared to the Hodge would have to be an FN barrel in the same price range, such as a Noveske. .... I agree. But if I was a betting man I’d wager the FN PSA barrel is the exact same steel and has the same Chrome lining as the Hodge or any other FN chf 5.56 barrel. Again, the only difference that is a known fact is the profile is different. Nothing else has been proven & is all here say and hype. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 4:45:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryDeleted. We don't insult each other in the tech forums. You're done here. ~L
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Posted: 1/26/2022 6:42:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not a Hodge fanboy The rest of ARF to you... 
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Posted: 1/26/2022 6:43:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the member involved or in the know with the SEP program is a respected member and SME but you can’t take his word for it? Maybe he is bound by NDAs or classified info Are all the industry partners that signed NDAs to sell Hodge barrels lying when they say they are definitely different? Why do we take your word for your accuracy tests? For all anyone knows you could be cherry picking groups or even distance of the test. Do I think you are doing that ? No More "it's a secret", got it. LMFAO... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 6:51:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never said it's the same steel. I said that if you want to claim that your steel is super special you need to post actual data to prove it. .... Respectfully sir, Jim Hodge/FN does NOT need to make their steel information public knowledge, regardless of how annoyed or skeptical it makes some of the public. If the military has taken an interest in it, there's a chance that sharing the specifics could be illegal, and NDAs are a thing for private businesses as well. Some things we simply aren't entitled to know. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 7:14:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The rest of ARF to you... https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F13HK3BRuRjIMFy%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m not a Hodge fanboy The rest of ARF to you... https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F13HK3BRuRjIMFy%2Fgiphy.gif&f=1&nofb=1 It’s hard to believe I know, 95% of the time is Sionics or SOLGW that’s rides shotgun. I will say Hodge and SOLGW has the best finishing that I’ve seen. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 7:49:32 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the military has taken an interest in it, there's a chance that sharing the specifics could be illegal, The barrel steel used in weapons that are actually issued by the US Military is public knowledge. The Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel uses 4150V grade Milspec B-1159E Chromium-Molybdenum-Vanadium and the SOCOM barrel has actual data showing that it's more accurate than the Hodge barrel, so there's that. ... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:02:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The barrel steel used in weapons that are actually issued by the US Military is public knowledge. The Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel uses 4150V grade Milspec B-1159E Chromium-Molybdenum-Vanadium and the SOCOM barrel has actual data showing that it's more accurate than the Hodge barrel, so there's that. ... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If the military has taken an interest in it, there's a chance that sharing the specifics could be illegal, The barrel steel used in weapons that are actually issued by the US Military is public knowledge. The Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel uses 4150V grade Milspec B-1159E Chromium-Molybdenum-Vanadium and the SOCOM barrel has actual data showing that it's more accurate than the Hodge barrel, so there's that. ... But is it more durable? Doubt it |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:08:34 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But is it more durable? Doubt it 
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:22:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But is it more durable? Doubt it So post some data to prove it. ... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:22:45 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But is it more durable? Doubt it Do you really believe a Colt barrel will outlast a FN CHF barrel? |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:25:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So post some data to prove it. ... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But is it more durable? Doubt it So post some data to prove it. ... Do u really believe a Colt barrel is more durable the a FN chf barrel? Seriously |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:26:10 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you really believe a Colt barrel will outlast a FN CHF barrel? I don't "believe" anything. I "understand" things based on actual data presented, which you've constantly failed to do every time a Hodge barrel is mentioned. .... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:36:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't "believe" anything. I "understand" things based on actual data presented, which you've constantly failed to do every time a Hodge barrel is mentioned. .... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Do you really believe a Colt barrel will outlast a FN CHF barrel? I don't "believe" anything. I "understand" things based on actual data presented, which you've constantly failed to do every time a Hodge barrel is mentioned. .... Nice dodge, I’m saying right now, even if a Hodge is just a rebranded FN chf barrel will the Colt outlast it given the same firing schedule and ammo? You know it won’t, you know a DD is a better barrel than the Colt. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:36:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Is the Hodge barrel extension made of a different steel as well for optimal M855 A1 use? I only ask because around late 2016 to early 2017, while I was in the 101st, we were having issues with the M4A1 SOCOM barrels. The 855 A1 was eroding the bottom lug of the chamber and causing feeding issues. These barrels had been in service for a few years at this point and had seen many rounds. The civilians that work at the Light Arms Repair Shop had diagnosed the issue as the tungsten tip of the A1 round being harder than the steel of the extension was causing the erosion. From my conversation with the LAR guy, he had said that 5th SFG had been having the same problem as well, only a little sooner since they shoot their weapons a shit ton more than any conventional unit. Maybe it was just a fluke since our regular Army guns were converted to A1's and the batch of barrels were made so fast to fulfill contract obligations, who knows. Not talking shit on either barrel, as I love the Colt SOCOM barrel (proud owner) and have never owned or shot a Hodge barrel.
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:40:22 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the Hodge barrel extension made of a different steel as well for optimal M855 A1 use? I only ask because around late 2016 to early 2017, while I was in the 101st, we were having issues with the M4A1 SOCOM barrels. The 855 A1 was eroding the bottom lug of the chamber and causing feeding issues. These barrels had been in service for a few years at this point and had seen many rounds. The civilians that work at the Light Arms Repair Shop had diagnosed the issue as the tungsten tip of the A1 round being harder than the steel of the extension was causing the erosion. From my conversation with the LAR guy, he had said that 5th SFG had been having the same problem as well, only a little sooner since they shoot their weapons a shit ton more than any conventional unit. Maybe it was just a fluke since our regular Army guns were converted to A1's and the batch of barrels were made so fast to fulfill contract obligations, who knows. I believe magazine followers had more to do with it than anything |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:43:29 PM EDT
[#40]
@Wyominer
Yeah, I believe that was the reason for coyote colored metal mags with the blue follower, but that type of metal to metal contact would also be a problem over time and use, is that safe to say? |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 8:52:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice dodge, I’m saying right now, even if a Hodge is just a rebranded FN chf barrel will the Colt outlast it given the same firing schedule and ammo? You know it won’t, you know a DD is a better barrel than the Colt. You're sure doing a lot of deflecting. Again that you're unable to post any data to support your claims about your Hodge barrels you're trying to shift the topic to DD barrels again? |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 9:22:35 PM EDT
[#42]
Found a video of this argument - you can figure out which is Molon and which is Wymoneeryguy.
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Posted: 1/26/2022 9:27:14 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IMHO It's a FN barrel with the same steel that they use on all of their CHF barrels, and the same chrome lining process. It's just a different profile that hodge paid extra for, which partly explains the cost difference between say a FN spikes and the hodge, the rest is just hype and IG cred driven. I'd love to be proven wrong. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 9:38:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're you're sure doing alot of deflecting. Again that you're unable to post any data to support your claims about your Hodge barrels you're trying to shift the topic to DD barrels again? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Nice dodge, I’m saying right now, even if a Hodge is just a rebranded FN chf barrel will the Colt outlast it given the same firing schedule and ammo? You know it won’t, you know a DD is a better barrel than the Colt. You're you're sure doing alot of deflecting. Again that you're unable to post any data to support your claims about your Hodge barrels you're trying to shift the topic to DD barrels again? I’m not deflecting anything, I’m saying a CHF barrel from FN will outlast a Colt barrel, you know it too but you just want to argue. It’s your thread, I’m done posting in it. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 9:44:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The barrel steel used in weapons that are actually issued by the US Military is public knowledge. The Colt M4A1 SOCOM barrel uses 4150V grade Milspec B-1159E Chromium-Molybdenum-Vanadium and the SOCOM barrel has actual data showing that it's more accurate than the Hodge barrel, so there's that. ... Yep, I get issued one. It apparently can be 0.34" at 100 yards more accurate than a Hodge with non-issued match ammo. That doesn't mean either of us is going to have access to all small-arms development information. You don't get to have that data. However, you are now in a very unique position courtesy of Mr. Esstac to design and execute some kind of test(s) with M855A1. You do great work with precision, but wouldn't it also be interesting to see how barrels compare in longevity and see if there really is anything desirable about the Hodge other than the profile, gas port, and alleged "Instagram drip?" |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 10:03:11 PM EDT
[#46]
And just how big of a deal is it getting 20,000 rds out of a barrel. You throw that around like it's all that.
I get it, there are some units that can benefit from it that have a heavy shooting schedule and want to maintain a certain level of accuracy for the life of the barrel, but at the end of the day, those same units burn thru cash like M&M's. Is it really worth all that cloak and dagger, NDA, hype marketing BS so that a unit gets a new barrel at 25K vs. 15K?? The Army I know and love, has no issues burning threw stupid amounts of money, and you're telling me the hill they decided to die on was the "We want an M4 barrel that can go 25K rd and hold 1MOA and we don't care what it cost????" Based on that logic, they should be sourcing a red dot that has a battery life equal to the 20-year career of the operator running it.... |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 10:18:31 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And just how big of a deal is it getting 20,000 rds out of a barrel. You throw that around like it's all that. I get it, there are some units that can benefit from it that have a heavy shooting schedule and want to maintain a certain level of accuracy for the life of the barrel, but at the end of the day, those same units burn thru cash like M&M's. Is it really worth all that cloak and dagger, NDA, hype marketing BS so that a unit gets a new barrel at 25K vs. 15K?? The Army I know and love, has no issues burning threw stupid amounts of money, and you're telling me the hill they decided to die on was the "We want an M4 barrel that can go 25K rd and hold 1MOA and we don't care what it cost????" Based on that logic, they should be sourcing a red dot that has a battery life equal to the 20-year career of the operator running it.... I have no idea. I've never run a small business after spending a career around units like that. I work in aviation which is...not inexpensive.  Is the HK416's precise barrel material known? I've heard a lot about it's longevity. Apparently it is valued. Here's an article from Jon Canipe, friend of Hodge and one of the first people I heard talk about him and his company, about his HK: https://soldiersystems.net/2013/03/30/canipe-correspondence-retiring-my-416/ |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 10:44:14 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And just how big of a deal is it getting 20,000 rds out of a barrel. You throw that around like it's all that. I get it, there are some units that can benefit from it that have a heavy shooting schedule and want to maintain a certain level of accuracy for the life of the barrel, but at the end of the day, those same units burn thru cash like M&M's. Is it really worth all that cloak and dagger, NDA, hype marketing BS so that a unit gets a new barrel at 25K vs. 15K?? The Army I know and love, has no issues burning threw stupid amounts of money, and you're telling me the hill they decided to die on was the "We want an M4 barrel that can go 25K rd and hold 1MOA and we don't care what it cost????" /thread Say no more, there is no other argument to make against this. It's pointless to argue longevity to the point of insanity. Even the poors here will replace barrels before that. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 10:56:14 PM EDT
[#49]
I can’t believe there is so much identity and feelings by some into defending a “brand” from posted shot group data, brand criticism or whatever internet opinions are out there. Fuck, I got a hodge barrel but I have a few dozen other makers too although I don’t identify with one brand or another. Arguing an extreme round count endurance hypothetical just appears to me as silly to convey any value upside ($450 barrel vs $12,000 in ammo).
Sure, I like my hodge 12.5” barrel just fine. I got it because it was the first 12.5” barrel I came across. Put a 1.5x acog on it along with my surefire mini on the tip and shot into a 3 inch group at 100 yards pretty consistently just testing out the build. Cool, did great. I have lot of money to throw at gun shit and I like to tinker, but I ain’t arguing with anyone if they claim to me a $100 barrel can do just as good…. I’d bet that it could. I’m happy to be on the journey finding out what works and what doesn’t…. It’s a lot of fun figuring things out for yourself, but I also appreciate solid information that people provide along the way. Some of that may be opinions, some of that is data… I use what I think makes sense and not worry about the other stuff. I also understand that mastering this game is 95% software and 5% hardware anyway. |
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Posted: 1/26/2022 11:12:16 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can’t believe there is so much identity and feelings by some into defending a “brand” from posted shot group data, brand criticism or whatever internet opinions are out there. Fuck, I got a hodge barrel but I have a few dozen other makers too although I don’t identify with one brand or another. Arguing an extreme round count endurance hypothetical just appears to me as silly to convey any value upside ($450 barrel vs $12,000 in ammo). Quote HistoryQuoted: I can’t believe there is so much identity and feelings by some into defending a “brand” from posted shot group data, brand criticism or whatever internet opinions are out there. Fuck, I got a hodge barrel but I have a few dozen other makers too although I don’t identify with one brand or another. Arguing an extreme round count endurance hypothetical just appears to me as silly to convey any value upside ($450 barrel vs $12,000 in ammo). That was simply one of the stated goals of the barrel. Someone(s) in the military thinks it's a very valuable trait and they have an established history of wanting that trait. I don't quite as much, so I bought a Criterion and not a Hodge. Sure, I like my hodge 12.5” barrel just fine. I got it because it was the first 12.5” barrel I came across. Put a 1.5x acog on it along with my surefire mini on the tip and shot into a 3 inch group at 100 yards pretty consistently just testing out the build. Cool, did great. I have lot of money to throw at gun shit and I like to tinker, but I ain’t arguing with anyone if they claim to me a $100 barrel can do just as good…. I’d bet that it could. I’m happy to be on the journey finding out what works and what doesn’t…. It’s a lot of fun figuring things out for yourself, but I also appreciate solid information that people provide along the way. Some of that may be opinions, some of that is data… I use what I think makes sense and not worry about the other stuff. I also understand that mastering this game is 95% software and 5% hardware anyway. Right on, I find the evolution of things interesting. Agreed on software vs. hardware, but the tech forums are (supposed to be) exclusively about hardware. |
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