Hmmm. What am I looking at here? Rust, Corrosion, Herpes?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Hmmm. What am I looking at here? Rust, Corrosion, Herpes? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 10/10/2018 11:59:46 PM EDT

So what am I looking at here? Barrel got a little wet the other day at the range.

The barrel is supposed to be Stainless and Cerakoted.

Posted: 10/11/2018 12:30:57 AM EDT

[#1]

Just plain water did that?

Posted: 10/11/2018 12:45:35 AM EDT

[#2]

looks like the finish was ate through to the bare metal.

Posted: 10/11/2018 5:22:13 AM EDT

[#3]

What kind of wet? Salt water? You don't weld or grind steel with your rifle at your side do you? Even the rust on the flash hider looks pretty aggressive. And even stainless steel will corrode in the right conditions.

Posted: 10/11/2018 8:02:32 AM EDT

[#4]

Acid rain

Posted: 10/11/2018 8:15:32 AM EDT

[#5]

It would take a lot more than water to do that.
It would also take a long time for even salt water to affect Cerakote. I saw a video where parts coated with various finishes were put in a salt bath chamber.
Stainless steel started to get some surface corrosion almost as fast as the blued part, less than a day into the test.
The test was ended around 6 months later when the Cerakoted part began to show some corrosion.

Most "problems" with Cerakote can be traced back to improper application.
Skip a step in the prep work, and things can go wrong.
One if the essential steps is, after removing surface oils from the part or parts by scrubbing with Acetone, is to bake it to drive out oils that are hidden down in the pores of the metal.
I find that this step stinks much worse than baking the parts to cure the Cerakote.

I am taking a guess that what you are seeing is some old oil coming out of your barrel and compromising the Cerakote.
This should have shown up when the parts were baked, but could have got worse after your barrel was heated up during firing.

Cerakoting over stainless is no big deal, as long as the other prerequisites were done.
That the metal received the proper media blast and was squeaky clean from Acetone, pre bake to drive out the old oil, another scrubbing with Acetone, then proper mixing and application of the Cerakote, then baking at the recommended temperature and duration.

Posted: 10/11/2018 10:05:38 AM EDT

[#6]

This is a BRAND NEW barrel. This is an Armalite 18" SS Match Grade. I just got it direct from Armalite last week. This was the FIRST trip to the range. It was raining that day although we were under a covered stall but we did step out to run steel.

The only thing that got on the rifle was some light rain and it got cased without being wiped down with oil but honestly so did my Daniel Defense Mk18 and this did NOT happen to that. I hunt in crappy weather in Michigan all the time, I run 2 and 3-gun with my Mk18 in the rain all the time and I've NEVER seen anything like this happen on an AR.

That said a couple of years ago my friend bought a Smith M&P9 and we shooting 2-gun in the rain. The gun came home in his Safariland which is felt coated on the inside. He pulled the gun out of the holster the next morning and it was COVERED in rust. Turned out it was a bad batch of improperly treated and improperly Melonited Stainless, Smith and Wesson replaced the slide.

Looking on Armalite.com the barrel they show in the picture is clearly Cerakoted, the gas block area and threads are not coated in their photos. This barrel was fully coated from end to end and now looking at it, it looks like a black phosphate, Melonite or something.

I just sent pictures of the barrel over to Danielle at Armalite to get some feedback.

This is the barrel I bought.

Armalite AR-10 .308 WIN 18 TARGET BARREL

Posted: 10/11/2018 11:03:29 AM EDT

[#7]

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Acid rain

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This was my first thought too.

But the other post about bad cerakote process can be it as well. Poop happens. I wouldnt worry about it too much, see if you can rub it off, then oil it if you can. If not, and it bothers you that much, Armalite should replace it. Theyre website seems to have live inventory now, so maybe theyre getting their shit together.

That does suck though.

Posted: 10/11/2018 11:16:38 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
This was my first thought too.

But the other post about bad cerakote process can be it as well. Poop happens. I wouldnt worry about it too much, see if you can rub it off, then oil it if you can. If not, and it bothers you that much, Armalite should replace it. Theyre website seems to have live inventory now, so maybe theyre getting their shit together.

That does suck though.

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Acid rain

This was my first thought too.

But the other post about bad cerakote process can be it as well. Poop happens. I wouldnt worry about it too much, see if you can rub it off, then oil it if you can. If not, and it bothers you that much, Armalite should replace it. Theyre website seems to have live inventory now, so maybe theyre getting their shit together.

That does suck though.

Maybe some residue from corrosive ammo was on the covered area you were shooting from and dripped down onto the barrel.

Posted: 10/11/2018 12:17:01 PM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:

Maybe some residue from corrosive ammo was on the covered area you were shooting from and dripped down onto the barrel.

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It's on all the sides of the barrel where it got wet and nothing was dripping. The whole acid rain thing sounds the most likely BUT like I said the Mk18 got WAY wetter and no issues.

Posted: 10/11/2018 12:49:57 PM EDT

[#10]

I'd send it back.

Five years in the Marine Corps, never seen anything like that. I know rain. I lived in it for days at a time.

It isn't a general rusting of the barrel. It is like pin holes that let rust start then it expanded outward.

Posted: 10/11/2018 12:54:18 PM EDT

[#11]

BTW

Did you use one of these to apply CLP all over your weapon before, during, and after you used it?

Lol jk couldn't resist.

Posted: 10/11/2018 1:21:11 PM EDT

[#12]

No, but I have a 55-gallon drum of anal-ease to store my Armalite AR-10 in now...

Posted: 10/11/2018 1:25:27 PM EDT

[#13]

I just contacted West Michigan Cerakote and sent them pictures, and the guy who replied said he can guarantee this barrel is not Cerakoted. If you check the above link, it's clear it's sold as Black Cerakote for an additional $25.00 dollars.

:(

Posted: 10/11/2018 1:51:39 PM EDT

[#14]

Did you get your barrel heated up enough to maybe make any contaminations under the coating "break out"?

Just throwing that out there.

Posted: 10/11/2018 3:26:27 PM EDT

[#15]

Oh yeah, I mag dumped some 150gr 308, it got warm!

Either way, its supposed to be Cerakoted, clearly not. I contacted the maker waiting on a reply.

Posted: 10/11/2018 3:58:46 PM EDT

[#16]

Not even acid rain will get through correctly applied Cerakote.

Something is wrong with that coating.

I would also get every external exposed piece of steel Cerakoted so this doesn't happen again.

Posted: 10/11/2018 5:06:05 PM EDT

[#17]

Cerakote, melonite, phosphate, etc, are all pretty distinct in terms of look and feel. Heck, nitride even has a distinct smell. Cerakote has a very obvious warm or "plasticy" feel to it (I don't mean that in a bad way), it doesn't feel like bare metal. Phosphate is chalky and thin. Nitride is smooth, hard, deep black, shiny.

I agree that the chances that barrel was Cerakoted are pretty much nil. I also agree that something else has to be at play here. The only time I've seen corrosion and pitting that fast is two metals in the presence of water, acid and salts. It can happen to two pots sitting in the sink, or the field dressing knives no matter what exotic stainless metal they claimed to be made of.

Just rain water on an other-wise clean barrel, though? Doesn't add up.

-Stooxie

Posted: 10/11/2018 5:33:35 PM EDT

[#18]

A bad cerakote job is still cerakote. But if not properly applied, you get no benefits.

I bet it was a bad batch that slipped through during their move.

Does it wipe off or not?

If not, it's containments underneath i would suspect. If it does, it's a crappy job at best. I would not like to find out Armalite trying to screw people like this. I don't think that's the case.

I think crappy job.

Posted: 10/11/2018 5:37:40 PM EDT

[#19]

That's a cheap way to blacken a SS barrel.

Posted: 10/11/2018 5:40:56 PM EDT

[#20]

Herpes! Your fucked. LOL. Send it back! Looks like a regular barrel. That’s some serious funk.

Posted: 10/11/2018 5:43:05 PM EDT

[#21]

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No, but I have a 55-gallon drum of anal-ease to store my Armalite AR-10 in now...

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Where would one acquire a 55 gallon drum of anal ease? Asking for a friend.

Posted: 10/11/2018 9:22:16 PM EDT

[#22]

I can't quite tell... is it present on the Birdcage and the crush washer ?

And honestly, the GB looks kinda wonky to me as well. ?!

Posted: 10/11/2018 10:51:09 PM EDT

[#23]

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I can't quite tell... is it present on the Birdcage and the crush washer ?

And honestly, the GB looks kinda wonky to me as well. ?!

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This rifle is not new by any means. The gas block and A2/crush were factory original from some years ago. The barrel itself is the only thing that is new and I just got that in the mail from Armalite.

Those other parts already had rust. I live in Michigan, I hunt and shoot in the winter so it happens but I've never seen anything like that barrel.

I did finally speak to Armalite, they are replacing the barrel. Turns out they did not switch from Cerakote to Phosphate, they offer all 3 but the Phosphate barrels are used on factory rifles if I followed what she was saying. I ordered Cerakote, I should have gotten Cerakote so they are sending the correct barrel.

Posted: 10/12/2018 8:32:57 AM EDT

[#24]

My phosphate barrel aint rusting like that. Im in Houston. Figured Houston might have worse corrosion.

But yeah, thats a shitty oopsies.

On their website, the complete rifles only show stainless that have the 18" barrels.....

I hate it when people and companies dont admit to faults. Why not?

Posted: 10/12/2018 9:05:44 AM EDT

[#25]

OP, I would encourage you to continue looking for other factors. Nothing rusts that fast or that deep without some kind of electrical or chemical assistance. Salts, acids, electrical potential, heat, galvanic corrosion from dissimilar metals? What case did you put it in? Could it be dirty somehow? Could there have been something already on the barrel like salt from a sweaty palm? Do you oil everything down pretty regularly or mostly just leave it?

It's clearly not just the barrel, but also the crush washer and FH as well.

Is your gas block the chrome moly one or stainless?

-Stooxie

Posted: 10/12/2018 9:08:20 AM EDT

[#26]

Looks like it was not prepped correctly resulting in oil/contaminats still on the metal before application of cerakote. Which let just the humidity in the air rust the metal.

Posted: 10/12/2018 9:20:34 AM EDT

[#27]

@Roadblock.....

Glad to hear Armalite is handling it.

You and your firearm might be one of the few people I know of that might want to try this stuff from Boeing.

I have used it on outdoor tools... but never needed it on a barrel... ( I am not sure how the product would deal with the heat from the various barrel parts )

Boeshield T-9....

https://boeshield.com/general-use/

https://boeshield.com/why-boeshield/

The Boeshield T-9 has performed well on the outdoor tools for me.

.

But.....

DO NOT USE THE "RUSTFREE" product also for sale on the same webpage..!!! ... on any firearm... ( Just an FYI )

Warning from BoeShield about the "Rustfree" stuff ( not the T-9 )
CAUTION! RustFree™ is acidic and should be used with care.

Test on hidden area before use.

Can cause spotting on cast iron and steel.

Rinse off painted surfaces thoroughly and neutralize with soap and water.

Do not use on guns or black oxide tools.

Can dull paint and plastics.

Not for spot cleaning of table tops.

Do not use on polished cast iron surfaces.

Posted: 10/12/2018 10:54:16 AM EDT

[#28]

Well, he says he installed used gas block, flash hider and washer. Could it be, shit sprayed out of gas block? Maybe not a good seat on count if it being used and possibly not cleaned well enough prior?

I still wanna know if it comes off or not.

Posted: 10/12/2018 11:43:20 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:
Well, he says he installed used gas block, flash hider and washer. Could it be, shit sprayed out of gas block? Maybe not a good seat on count if it being used and possibly not cleaned well enough prior?

I still wanna know if it comes off or not.

View Quote

There appears to be no blow by out the front or back of the gas block.

Prior to installing the 18" barrel this flash hider and gas block was used in this very rifle with a 16" lightweight barrel without any issues. I've only ever shot two types of ammo in this rifle, 150gr MEN16 and 168gr CBC Matech Sniper.

I've had the flash hider on and off a few times, tried different brakes etc but most recently had been running just this A2. The rust you see on that is a result of the finish being dinged up from me taking it on and off, it getting marked up and rusting in some spots. I'm sure that is related to the weather too though.

Anyway, I removed the 16" and installed the 18" and fired more of the same batch of 150gr MEN16 that I've been using for months, this was what I found the first day after the range when I uncased and went to return this to my safe.

Both a local friend who is a machinist and Armalite seem to somewhat agree on what may have happened.

My friend said the barrel wasn't cleaned properly prior to being phosphate coated and the contaminate are leaking out due to heat. Armalite feels the moister on the barrel surface spend up the process of those contaminate corroding. Basically, contaminates + water + air = this very quickly.

I was unsure but thought this was NOT Cerakoted when I got it. After how long it took to come back in-stock I said fuck it, I don't even care an I guess, really, I don't. I just assumed if it was not Cerakote they must have changed their process but Armalite says no, they do still offer black Cerakote and it should have been Black Cerakote so they are sending me the correct barrel.

I did try to clean the barrel and it did clean up BUT there are some small speckle spots where the finish is, off-color I guess I would call it. I can't clean those off, they appear to be some type of finish damage but the weird colored stuff is gone.

Posted: 10/12/2018 11:45:41 AM EDT

[#30]

Side note, I have nothing like this going on inside of the upper, BCG etc so it's not powder/ammo related.

Posted: 10/12/2018 12:10:35 PM EDT

[#31]

No way in hell plain old rain drops did that. You are doomed, brah.
Armalite can't fix your problems!

Posted: 10/12/2018 1:38:40 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
No way in hell plain old rain drops did that. You are doomed, brah.
Armalite can't fix your problems!

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You should probably read the whole thread.

It's been narrowed down to chemical contaminants in the steel. If you look, you will see that it literally looks like it leaked up out of the metal and spread.

The barrel was not properly cleaned before it was Phosphate coated. When I heated it up at the range it caused the contaminants to rise to the surface which mixed with the moister on the barrel and it apparently oxidized into that crap.

Armalite was SURE this would not affect the integrity of the barrel but I was supposed to get a black Cerakoted barrel which I did not so they are sending me a replacement with a call tag for this one.

I just got this last week, the barrel that is.

Posted: 10/12/2018 6:07:56 PM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

You should probably read the whole thread.

It's been narrowed down to chemical contaminants in the steel. If you look, you will see that it literally looks like it leaked up out of the metal and spread.

The barrel was not properly cleaned before it was Phosphate coated. When I heated it up at the range it caused the contaminants to rise to the surface which mixed with the moister on the barrel and it apparently oxidized into that crap.

Armalite was SURE this would not affect the integrity of the barrel but I was supposed to get a black Cerakoted barrel which I did not so they are sending me a replacement with a call tag for this one.

I just got this last week, the barrel that is.

View Quote

Phosphate doesnt do that, its a different process. I still think it was a shoddy job is all.

Poop happens. Youll be alright.

Posted: 10/13/2018 4:40:09 AM EDT

[#34]

Definitely post up what the replacement barrel looks like compared to the affected barrel. At least the vendor is replacing it without a squabble...

I wipe new guns down with a lot of gun oil and let it soak into the finish. Whether that would have helped in your case I can't say.

Posted: 10/13/2018 12:39:36 PM EDT

[#35]

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Phosphate doesnt do that, its a different process. I still think it was a shoddy job is all.

Poop happens. Youll be alright.

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Armalite actually is the one that called it "Phosphate". My friend said something about Melonite. Who knows, but its not Cerakote.

Posted: 10/13/2018 12:40:16 PM EDT

[#36]

Will post a side by side.

Posted: 10/13/2018 1:37:00 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:

Armalite actually is the one that called it "Phosphate". My friend said something about Melonite. Who knows, but its not Cerakote.

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If cerakote isn't done properly, it's practically spray paint. But it's "technically" still cerakote.

I think it's not melonite because they don't offer it. I'm going by what on the site, stainless, phosphate and cerakote.

Those smart enough, correct be if I'm wrong, but doesn't melonite treatment get rid of contaminates during the process? I thought the salt bath helped boil off crap left over. Unless of course it's embedded in some way.

I don't know, I'm not a chemist. But the shoddy melonite jobs I've seen pictures of don't look like that.

Definitely not trying to argue, just don't agree with what they said. I'm thinking they said that to satisfy your curiosity because they "don't fucking know".

Either way, you're getting a new one. Definitely post back with new barrel differences in texture, sheen, etc etc. I'm curious as hell now.

Posted: 10/13/2018 6:50:47 PM EDT

[#38]

Well, I can tell you this. Side by side, next to my Daniel Defense Mk18, the finish look the same.

That said Armalite is no longer Armalite, it's now STRATEGIC ARMORY CORPS, which is a few different brands, I'm sure they do all kinds of finishes.

Posted: 10/13/2018 11:18:02 PM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

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That said Armalite is no longer Armalite, it's now STRATEGIC ARMORY CORPS, .....

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Bah. That's discomforting.

Oh well.

Posted: 10/14/2018 12:15:58 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

Bah. That's discomforting.

Oh well.

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Well, I mean it's the same company that owns McMillan and Surgeon, they make some high-end shit. Hopefully, this will be good for their Armalite division.

Posted: 10/14/2018 3:03:36 PM EDT

[#41]

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Well, I mean it's the same company that owns McMillan and Surgeon, they make some high-end shit. Hopefully, this will be good for their Armalite division.

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Corporate buyouts never end well. Ask anyone who owns Allen Edmonds shoes.

Posted: 10/14/2018 3:46:58 PM EDT

[#42]

You didn't happen to be mixing up some Tanerite beside your rifle? That shit is corrosive as hell.

Tony

Posted: 10/14/2018 10:02:04 PM EDT

[#43]

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You didn't happen to be mixing up some Tanerite beside your rifle? That shit is corrosive as hell.

Tony

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Nope. We were shooting paper/cardboard and AR500 plates.

Posted: 10/15/2018 5:53:12 AM EDT

[#44]

How close to the metal plates were you?

Posted: 10/15/2018 8:09:37 AM EDT

[#45]

I dont know why, but im intrigued by this. I keep coming back looking at the pictures, it doesnt look normal.

Almost like the flash hider and barrel corroded the same time, in the same way. But you said flash hider was already fudgey, right?

Are the cerakoted barrels stainless as well? Thats what makes this a little more confusing to me. Maybe thats why Armalite says phosphate, it wouldnt corrode like that being stainless. Im not a chemist or corrosion expert, so I dont know, but overnight seems a little quick. Unless your rain is really harsh...

I dont think shrapnel wouldve done that without it pelting him as well. Stranger things have happened though.

Posted: 10/17/2018 8:16:11 AM EDT

[#46]

Just a recommendation for your wet weather conditions, Hornady One-Shot spray lube is AMAZING stuff when it comes to corrosion resistance. I use it on everything.

When you get the new barrel post an accuracy report! I've been curious about those.

Posted: 10/18/2018 5:55:09 PM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:
Did you get your barrel heated up enough to maybe make any contaminations under the coating "break out"?

Just throwing that out there.

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this

Posted: 10/24/2018 9:55:26 AM EDT

[#48]

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this

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Yep that is what both Armalite and my buddy who is a machinist said. Was told it most likely was not prepped properly. Probably a rush job to get inventory going after the switch over.

Fast forward 2 weeks, still nothing out of Armalite. I've emailed and called twice now too. The emails have not been replied to and when I call I do get a real person but they keep referring me over to the person who was originally helping me and I leave a voicemail but get no return call.

Going to try them again today, AR-10 is torn apart right now waiting on the barrel that was supposed to be here in a week or so.

SIGH!