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Posted: 3/2/2021 9:28:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Should be gtg. I have both a 2.5 and 3x PA prism. Probably the closest I've engaged a target is 6-7 meters. The first time was (Whoa!). Very, very quickly adapted to the magnified close range. EZPZ. I occasionally grab one of them and simulate targeting so that it remains "normal" to my brain. I also have a 1x prism which is fine but much prefer a bit of magnification.
Technically the use of a magnified optic with 2-eyes is obvious. Doable but there will be a difference. You can either deal with it or not. Pretty simple actually. The housing on a magnified prism is a bit large when compared to many red dots. Knobs and the like can interfere with vision. Bottom line is I have no issue with 2-eye shooting a magnified prism close-in or at distance. Funny thing is I don't do it so much for an expanded field of view as I do it for speed. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 9:35:27 AM EDT
[#2]
For me personally 3x is a bit much under 15 yards. Farther than 15 yards 3x is perfectly usable.
My main shtf rifles wear primary arms 2x prism optics. Love them. Perfect magnification in my opinion. Swamp foxes upcoming 1.5x prism looks right. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 9:52:31 AM EDT
[#3]
I would get the new Vortex Spitfire HD Gen II 3x over either one of those.
The Swampfox looks terrible. Integrated mount. Gross. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 11:39:54 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would get the new Vortex Spitfire HD Gen II 3x over either one of those. The Swampfox looks terrible. Integrated mount. Gross. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 12:02:13 PM EDT
[#5]
Will the Trihawk be easily useable both eyes open at CQB distances? Close the front dust cover, and yes. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 12:24:02 PM EDT
[#6]
The PA is supposed to be daylight bright. That will make a huge difference in speed. But you need to ask yourself what magnification you want.
I'm waiting for the PA 3X before I buy another prism. You might also look into the Burris RT3, but their eye relief and mount combo leaves a lot to be desired. I say it too often, but it's absolutely sad that China has come so far with prism optics while Trijicon has sat on their thumb for almost two decades. If someone used LOW Japan to make a prism using modern Chinese prism technology updates and sold it at $500-$600 they'd probably sell like crazy. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 12:33:58 PM EDT
[#7]
I made a video you might find helpful.
 Scope Battle! 1-10x LPVO vs 3x Prism |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 12:34:47 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If someone used LOW Japan to make a prism using modern Chinese prism technology updates and sold it at $500-$600 they'd probably sell like crazy. If you could sell anything made by LOW in Japan for $500 we would already be doing that. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 2:38:05 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you could sell anything made by LOW in Japan for $500 we would already be doing that. Alright, how about the Philippines even? |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 5:46:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For me personally 3x is a bit much under 15 yards. Farther than 15 yards 3x is perfectly usable. My main shtf rifles wear primary arms 2x prism optics. Love them. Perfect magnification in my opinion. Swamp foxes upcoming 1.5x prism looks right. OP Narrow it down to how much magnification you want to try. Comparing a 3X to a 1X is going to be hard. 1.5X or 2X is a great in between. Also you can run a magnifier with our new 1X |
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Posted: 3/3/2021 8:08:17 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP Narrow it down to how much magnification you want to try. Comparing a 3X to a 1X is going to be hard. 1.5X or 2X is a great in between. Also you can run a magnifier with our new 1X Ok, Decided to hold out for your upcoming release, as I rarely shoot at distance. Bring on the pre-order! |
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Posted: 3/3/2021 3:42:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alright, how about the Philippines even? I'm busy today but if you want to make some calls and see if the Philippines guys will make great products for $500, I'd be much obliged if you can get me a good point of contact there. But, if you can get them to do that, I don't know why you would let me in on it. Might as well start your own importing brand at that point and cut us out as the middle man. That's what I would do, honestly. Good luck! |
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Posted: 3/3/2021 7:26:50 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm busy today but if you want to make some calls and see if the Philippines guys will make great products for $500, I'd be much obliged if you can get me a good point of contact there. But, if you can get them to do that, I don't know why you would let me in on it. Might as well start your own importing brand at that point and cut us out as the middle man. That's what I would do, honestly. Good luck! You should ask Steiner and Burris who have been doing it. It's not my job to make your products better, but it is your job to listen to your customer base if you wish to be successful. Primary Arms has compact, lightweight, and daylight bright prisms on the horizon. Even if they're Chinese they're impossible to ignore. Burris and Steiner are doing exactly what you insinuate is impossible. Vortex has compact lightweight prisms with HD glass. In what way are you going to remain competitive? (That's for you to answer to yourself). I'm not trying to be a dick, but starting an argument with me over it isn't going to level out the playing field. |
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Posted: 3/4/2021 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should ask Steiner and Burris who have been doing it. It's not my job to make your products better, but it is your job to listen to your customer base if you wish to be successful. Primary Arms has compact, lightweight, and daylight bright prisms on the horizon. Even if they're Chinese they're impossible to ignore. Burris and Steiner are doing exactly what you insinuate is impossible. Vortex has compact lightweight prisms with HD glass. In what way are you going to remain competitive? (That's for you to answer to yourself). I'm not trying to be a dick, but starting an argument with me over it isn't going to level out the playing field. Steiner prisms are made in Germany and Burris prisms are Chinese made as well. For whatever reason the phillipines won’t touch prism scopes. They make a lot of good tube scopes though |
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Posted: 3/4/2021 11:58:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Steiner prisms are made in Germany and Burris prisms are Chinese made as well. For whatever reason the phillipines won’t touch prism scopes. They make a lot of good tube scopes though The Burris TMPR is made in the Phillipines. I assumed the Steiner low end models were too but I stand corrected. Prisms take a healthy investment to make. That likely goes even more for modern enough equipment to match the Chinese advancements that make optics like the new PA prisms, new Vortex Spitfire, and Burris RT3 possible. The sad truth is no one out side of China can keep up right now, so quality and origin of manufacture are going to be the best alternative selling points. |
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Posted: 3/4/2021 5:20:45 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm busy today but if you want to make some calls and see if the Philippines guys will make great products for $500, I'd be much obliged if you can get me a good point of contact there. But, if you can get them to do that, I don't know why you would let me in on it. Might as well start your own importing brand at that point and cut us out as the middle man. That's what I would do, honestly. Good luck! Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Alright, how about the Philippines even? I'm busy today but if you want to make some calls and see if the Philippines guys will make great products for $500, I'd be much obliged if you can get me a good point of contact there. But, if you can get them to do that, I don't know why you would let me in on it. Might as well start your own importing brand at that point and cut us out as the middle man. That's what I would do, honestly. Good luck! @that_guy_mike These folks do this to PA a lot. They virtue signal in tech threads and industry forums and rudely argue with business owners telling them how to run their business. They consume pages in tech forums arguing over where they think your product should be made. I even watched some asshole argue with you today on one of your Facebook posts about your prism. What’s also obnoxious is that these folks act like they speak for your customer base. If only these folks understood how fucking obnoxious and rude they are. |
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Posted: 3/4/2021 6:46:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @that_guy_mike These folks do this to PA a lot. They virtue signal in tech threads and industry forums and rudely argue with business owners telling them how to run their business. They consume pages in tech forums arguing over where they think your product should be made. I even watched some asshole argue with you today on one of your Facebook posts about your prism. What’s also obnoxious is that these folks act like they speak for your customer base. If only these folks understood how fucking obnoxious and rude they are. It's not virtue signaling. I'm sure the Trihawk is a good optic, but as a consumer I'm going to seek the most for my money. Why would I buy his product over the PA which is smaller, lighter, and daylight bright? Why would I buy his product over the Vortex which is smaller, lighter, and has HD glass? Why would I buy his product over the Steiner which is made in Germany? Why would I buy his product over the Burris which is smaller, lighter, daylight bright, and made in the Phillipines? You can try and turn it into something personal but it's not. That should be clearly evidenced by the fact I didn't start the argument, nor call him out first. But who knows, maybe you'll get a free Trihawk by trying to drag it out and make it personal by calling people names, bro. |
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Posted: 3/4/2021 8:16:19 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not virtue signaling. I'm sure the Trihawk is a good optic, but as a consumer I'm going to seek the most for my money. Why would I buy his product over the PA which is smaller, lighter, and daylight bright? Why would I buy his product over the Vortex which is smaller, lighter, and has HD glass? Why would I buy his product over the Steiner which is made in Germany? Why would I buy his product over the Burris which is smaller, lighter, daylight bright, and made in the Phillipines? You can try and turn it into something personal but it's not. That should be clearly evidenced by the fact I didn't start the argument, nor call him out first. But who knows, maybe you'll get a free Trihawk by trying to drag it out and make it personal by calling people names, bro. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @that_guy_mike These folks do this to PA a lot. They virtue signal in tech threads and industry forums and rudely argue with business owners telling them how to run their business. They consume pages in tech forums arguing over where they think your product should be made. I even watched some asshole argue with you today on one of your Facebook posts about your prism. What’s also obnoxious is that these folks act like they speak for your customer base. If only these folks understood how fucking obnoxious and rude they are. It's not virtue signaling. I'm sure the Trihawk is a good optic, but as a consumer I'm going to seek the most for my money. Why would I buy his product over the PA which is smaller, lighter, and daylight bright? Why would I buy his product over the Vortex which is smaller, lighter, and has HD glass? Why would I buy his product over the Steiner which is made in Germany? Why would I buy his product over the Burris which is smaller, lighter, daylight bright, and made in the Phillipines? You can try and turn it into something personal but it's not. That should be clearly evidenced by the fact I didn't start the argument, nor call him out first. But who knows, maybe you'll get a free Trihawk by trying to drag it out and make it personal by calling people names, bro. You’re going to seek the most for your money by arguing with a business to personalize a product to your specifications? Even suggesting manufacturing Japanese glass at China/Philippines prices? Nobody is forcing you to buy a Swampfox. If Burris, PA, Vortex, and Steiner already have the product you want, then why are you here? It sounds like the Swampfox might not be what you’re looking for. |
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Posted: 3/4/2021 10:05:15 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You’re going to seek the most for your money by arguing with a business to personalize a product to your specifications? Even suggesting manufacturing Japanese glass at China/Philippines prices? Nobody is forcing you to buy a Swampfox. If Burris, PA, Vortex, and Steiner already have the product you want, then why are you here? It sounds like the Swampfox might not be what you’re looking for. You seem to be completely incapable of comprehending the fact I didn't make this demand to Swampfox, instead he called me out on a generic "wouldn't it be nice" saying it's not possible. I provided two examples of where it was, and why I would choose other competitors. I'm far from the only person willing to pay a few hundred more for something made in Japan or the Phillipines. Take the white knight shit elsewhere, or at least go back and actually read the chain of events. I already said I'd buy the PA before all of this, so your strawman thing isn't going to be valid here. |
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Posted: 3/5/2021 11:33:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You seem to be completely incapable of comprehending the fact I didn't make this demand to Swampfox, instead he called me out on a generic "wouldn't it be nice" saying it's not possible. I provided two examples of where it was, and why I would choose other competitors. I'm far from the only person willing to pay a few hundred more for something made in Japan or the Phillipines. Take the white knight shit elsewhere, or at least go back and actually read the chain of events. I already said I'd buy the PA before all of this, so your strawman thing isn't going to be valid here. Quote HistoryQuoted: You seem to be completely incapable of comprehending the fact I didn't make this demand to Swampfox, instead he called me out on a generic "wouldn't it be nice" saying it's not possible. I provided two examples of where it was, and why I would choose other competitors. I'm far from the only person willing to pay a few hundred more for something made in Japan or the Phillipines. Take the white knight shit elsewhere, or at least go back and actually read the chain of events. I already said I'd buy the PA before all of this, so your strawman thing isn't going to be valid here. Damn. I didn’t know Swampfox hired you as a business consultant. Quoted: It's not my job to make your products better, but it is your job to listen to your customer base if you wish to be successful................................................................................I’m not trying to be a dick, but starting an argument with me over it isn't going to level out the playing field. |
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Posted: 3/5/2021 11:48:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn. I didn’t know Swampfox hired you as a business consultant. Again, I didn't address them first. And I'm not the one trying to act like I work for Swampfox in this pointless little conversation here..... If you want to talk optics or even dispute my opinions on them, cool. Otherwise you might have to go talk to yourself in the mirror as I'm not inclined to engage in such needless drama any further. |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 12:37:16 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not virtue signaling. I'm sure the Trihawk is a good optic, but as a consumer I'm going to seek the most for my money. Why would I buy his product over the PA which is smaller, lighter, and daylight bright? Well, I can tell you why my PA 3x Prism is sitting unmounted in a box, and I use my Trihawk on a regular basis. Amazing FOV, shake awake, good if not excellent glass, very usable reticle, solid build, uses CR123s, and it's plenty bright for use in the Florida sun. Oh, and I just like the way it looks on the build I mounted it on.  |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 2:41:42 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I can tell you why my PA 3x Prism is sitting unmounted in a box, and I use my Trihawk on a regular basis. Amazing FOV, shake awake, good if not excellent glass, very usable reticle, solid build, uses CR123s, and it's plenty bright for use in the Florida sun. Oh, and I just like the way it looks on the build I mounted it on. https://i.imgur.com/DcObrKW.jpg I definitely wasn't trying to say the Trihawk is bad. I was just stating why I would be more drawn to other options. I was also referring to the 2X and upcoming 1 and 3X models from PA and not the legacy models. I'd probably consider the Trihawk over the old generation PA prisms too. Is it actually daylight bright? Could have sworn I saw others and Mike himself say the Trihawk isn't. |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 6:17:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I can tell you why my PA 3x Prism is sitting unmounted in a box, and I use my Trihawk on a regular basis. Amazing FOV, shake awake, good if not excellent glass, very usable reticle, solid build, uses CR123s, and it's plenty bright for use in the Florida sun. Oh, and I just like the way it looks on the build I mounted it on. https://i.imgur.com/DcObrKW.jpg Your recommendation would be taken a lot more seriously if you hadn't posted a picture of the gun. Is that the new Tapout Arms Affliction-15? I find it hard to believe the glass is so good when the housings and fit & finish on all their optics looks exactly like NcStar. The integrated mount automatically screams gun show garbage, even bottom tier brands like UTG and Primary Arms and Sightmark have removable Aimpoint or Trijicon pattern mounts on almost all their optics now. |
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