Its all solid state, I bet it would last. Just seems like it would be perfect for his use.

Exactly!

The forward assist assy and dust cover assy are still in excellent condition and it's MUCH easier to just transfer those parts over to a new stripped upper receiver. That poor upper has done it's time and now it's time to just fade away into the depths of a box full of parts that have been sacrificed tot he gun gods

V/R
Ron

Not a hijack, more of an info share.

We have had a rash of premature weapons malfunctioning due to not resetting on the burst cam (deep notch). Trigger would have to be pushed from the rear to reset. Not what I want to be doing on the training line in students hands. After numerous occasions it turned out that it was an entire series of Colt M4's that all came in 2012. My Instructors and I started trial and error parts swapping with new replacements and it turned out that the hammers were suffering premature wear, possibly from impropper heat treat. A memo was sent up the chain and we ended up ordering a pile of spare hammers. Now when it occurs, hammer gets replaced and the problem in fixed.

Have you experienced anything like this with your Colt products?

S/F

Al

Al,

We removed all the factory hammers, triggers and disconnectors and replaced them with JT Distributing M16 parts and sold them off as a lot. I couldn't tell you if there were any issues or not but these were new productions rifles that had just been delivered from the factory.

V/R
Ron

Most likely it was because the rifles were bought as semi autos and converted to full auto, requiring a M16 FCG.

Thus no need for the semi parts any more.

Any updates on how the PSA's are doing?

To state the obvious, this thread is amazing. Thank you very much for sharing all this!

Now I'm just hoping that the industry is paying attention. Here is their golden opportunity to prove that their products really are as good as they claim them to be, by sending them to you for free (frankly, they should be paying you, if anything) for a real torture test.

You might want to trademark "Battlefield Vegas approved" and come up with a logo for that. ;) I'm looking forward to seeing it on no-nonsense, proven reliable gun parts in the future.

Intro comments

Hi Folks,

A forum member asked me if I would give some insight into how our M4's handle on the range because I've started threads on the AK's, pistols and .50 Barretts.

Here's a little background on what we do. We operate a high-volume range in Las Vegas. You can't bring your personal weapons in and rent lanes for an hour. Customers use only our weapons and our ammo. We only use factory new ammo and zero reloads. We keep maintenance log on EACH and every weapon to include cleanings, parts replaced and any other issues that need to be noted. We shoot approximately 400,000 rounds down range each month and the numbers have actually gone up a bit for May and June. Tourists get to shoot everything from Type 99 Arisaka's, M1 Garand C and D's, MP-44's, G43's, M2HB's, 240's, 249's, MG42's, MG34's, M-14's, Luger's, Swedish K's, M203's, M79's and you get the point. Some weapons are very rare historical weapons that rarely come out of collections or museums and see the light of day.

Here are some "facts" about OUR experience with M4's on the range.

- Some of our M4's have well over 200,000 rounds down range. Barrels have been replaced, gas tubes have been replaced, BCG's have been replaced but what sets it apart from the AK47's is that upper and lower receivers continue to function. AK's get to about the 100,000+ round count and rails on the receiver will start to crack. It's an easy fix with tig welding but they crack. We have yet to lose an upper or lower receiver from cracking.

- We get about 20,000 rounds out of bolts before we start experiencing issues. The headspace gauge will start getting closing on NO-GO but not close on field. We will lose a lug on the bolt. The bolt will start skipping over rounds in the magazine and fail to insert a round. We use LMT and Daniel Defense bolts and some will actually go longer but at about 20,000 rounds is when we will start to see issues appear.

- Gas tubes will erode away at the FSB after 12+ months

- Charging handles will "stretch" allowing the locking lever and spring to fly out

- Hammer pins and disconnectors on the 8.5" full-auto's will break after approximately 4,000-5,000 rounds regardless of the buffer weight

- We have yet to lose a single flash hider as compared to muzzle brakes on an AK-47. The muzzle brakes will literally split in half, looking a like bird with his beak open and go flying down range.

- We no longer use ANY piston conversions or factory pistons guns with the exception of the HK-416 "knock-off" TDI upper. I purchased a FACTORY brand-new MR556 and it started keyholing after only 10,000 rounds. I was SO pissed because I spent all that money on the gun and it couldn't last 10,000 rounds. I had barrels from before we even opened the range with 1,000's of rounds on them from J&T Distributing (chrome-lined) that didn't keyhole well into the 80,000-100,000 range. I don't know who makes or made the J&T barrels but I was so pissed that actually wasted the money on a MR556 and that's all I got from it. I purchased two of the 14.5" TDI knock-offs approximately 6-8 weeks ago and they have been on the line daily with ZERO issues. I only purchased them because people will come in specifically request the "416" and even they've never handled a weapon their entire lives, they KNOW that the top half isn't the "416 like in COD/MW".

- USGI mags have outlasted all of the other brands. We use UGSI (Brownell's with tan follower) and on a mag for mag basis, they have outlasted Pmags and a few of the other mags that we get from mfg'ers with new weapons. We don't have to worry about various generations with different weapons like the MR556, SCAR, F2000, Tavor or a couple of others that use AR15/M4 magazines.

- Cleaning bolts and carriers is such a pain in the ass as compared to our AK's, G36's, SCAR's, ACR's and most other platforms. We throw them in the ultrasonic cleaner filled with Simple Green (EPA, OSHA and disposal concerns for us) and they never full remove the carbon from the bolts. The armorers spend so much time cleaning them and keeping all the parts together as compared to most other platforms.

- The only piston system to last on the range so far is the HK416 and TD415 system. Ever other systems we have tried has failed in one way or another. I won't say who's broke or how they broke so PLEASE don't ask. Each mfg has their own system for cleaning intervals and we may not follow their way. We have a way of cleaning and keeping records that suits our needs because of so much use.

- There is company that has an AR system that has some "parts don't need lubrication" and that failed before the end of the first day. I don't think some mfg's understand that people REALLY use their weapons and when you're rocking full-auto all day they NEED lubrication. My armorers and RSO's were laughing when it seized it up because we knew there was NO way it would last on our range.

- The parts that we see break more often are the bolt cam, bolt lugs shearing off, firing pins and gas keys shearing off the bolt carrier.

These are just a few of the things that I can think of on the top of my head. Please feel free to ask questions and I will try to respond sooner than later depending on my schedule.



You always hear how FN barrels are good quality.
How long a life do they comparatively have if you use them.
Carbon on bolts. I've never found a need to clean it off.


We have to put at least 100,000 rounds down range with M4's each month and the weapons will stop cycling if we don't clean the carbon off. We have maintenance schedules for each weapon and if an M4 (or any other weapon for that matter) gets overlooked, it has issues. Each weapon system has time frame for cleaning from the experiences we see each day. Uzi's can go on for awhile but MP5-SD's and other suppressed weapons need cleaning VERY often.

As for FN barrels, I just recently purchased twenty of the complete PSA 12.5" and 10.5" uppers to test them out. So far they have functioned properly like the Daniel Defense and LMT's and have had zero issues. They don't have a huge amount of rounds through them but no issues of jamming have been reported. That's a good thing in our business because our customers come for the experience and having a weapon that jams is a deal-killer.

when you say bolt cam, do you mean the cam pin? or the bolt breaks at the cam pin hole?

Yes, I apologize. I do mean the cam pin in the bolt.



Let me ask for further clarification here.  Do you mean the bolt breaks at the cam pin hole or that the cam pin actually breaks?

By the way, thank you very much for taking the time to write your very informative posts.



This piece brakes pretty much where you see in this pic (grabbed from Google, not my pic).

http://i.imgur.com/wdmtrGB.jpg</a>" />

That being said, I forgot about this issue (another picture that I grabbed from Google). On bolts that have a high round count, have not sheared a lug and continue to headspace within spec', this is what usually happens. So, we do lose both pieces but we lose the pin much more often than the bolt itself.
http://i.imgur.com/W605ctE.jpg</a>" />



So you've been using primarily DD and LMT barrels/bolts to date?

We've used primarily DD and LMT BCG's for the last 2 years with more DD's than LMT's. We used other brands before that trying to save a few bucks and they never lasted. We learned quick that it was cheaper to just go with a BCG that was slightly more expensive

As for barrels, a majority of the barrels are DD and LMT. We have used the Green Mountain 20" pencil barrels for our M16A1's with zero issues. They get used every day and they continue to headspace fine and no issues of keyholing. As stated in a post above, we just purchased twenty of the PSA barrels made under contract by FN and so far they have good to go.

V/R
Ron



Great info and thanks for sharing it! What kind of lube(s) do you use on ARs and M4s?

I talked about this in length in another thread.

We've had many companies send us samples and we've had sales rep's show up telling us how much better their products is than others. We even had a sales rep actually eat some of his product to demonstrate it's safety to us (if my armorers couldn't tell the difference between lube and gum/dip and accidentally ate some, I don't think they would be working for me). Some require a whole protocol in order to use it properly and after following the protocol, there was no notable difference that WE noticed as I am not saying their claims weren't true.

All of the lubes we have ever used worked as long as we continued to lube the weapons. Some lubes lasted longer than others but again... they ALL worked as advertised. My biggest concern is making sure it's safe for my employees and there are no issues with EPA, OSHA and disposal of the rags with the residue. Slip2000 fit our business model perfectly.  

Up until about three weeks ago, the main lube we were using was Slip 2000 and the grease was also made by Slip2000. We had a rep at a local country festival give one of my managers a case of Lucas Gun Oil. The armorers asked if we could use it and I told them to get the MSDS's for it and make sure the service company didn't have an issue with cleaning the rags with it. They didn't and we tried it out. My RSO's immediately noticed that it wasn't spraying any "mist" after being lubed. That is huge for use because so many people come dressed really nice (on their way to a dinner or show after) and they could actually put more lube in the gun and keep the weapons "wet" longer. Slip2000 did the least amount of "misting" after lube but the Lucas does even better. My RSO's like it because less chance of getting lube on a customers clothes and better chance of getting tipped

We continue to use the Slip2000 grease on all of the other heavy weapons like the MG42's, M60's, 240's, etc.

The only weapons to get their own special lube are the M134 miniguns. We only use TW-25 on all of our M134's.




. I'd love to see you look at barrel life for ARs of different lengths, as anecdotally it seems accepted that the 10.5 and 12.5 barrels shoot out much faster than the 16 and 20s, but I don't have a technical understanding for why this would be.

Any brands of AR barrels that you are regularly seeing 50k rounds from?

Throat erosion is significantly higher on the shorter weapons but our ONLY concern for accuracy is that the bullet doesn't keyhole. One of the armorers mentioned to me at one point we should consider swapping out the barrels because of throat erosion but when I pointed out to him that we are shooting at 10 yards and we adjust the Eotech to match the point of impact so barrel erosion is not much of concern for us.

The shorties are also the same units that erode the gas tubes. We haven't lost a 16" or 20" barrel's gas tube before the barrel itself failed from keyholing.

Also, the gas port holes erode away much faster on the shorties.



Do you use any BCM's?

What ammo do you run? M193?

We used Magtech .223 ammo until they got a military contract and couldn't keep up with production. If fairness, they told us 6-8 months in advance that they were pretty sure a contract was coming and that we needed to make sure we had another supplier available in the event they got it. Magtech has been the cleanest of all the ammo we used followed closely by Privi Partizan. I try to avoid Federal and will only use them if no other suppliers are available with the exception of the .50 BMG round.

We are currently using Wolf Gold series of brass case ammo. We've gone through over 500,000 rounds with zero issues. It burns clean and pretty damn close to 5.56mm spec's even though it's listed as .223 Remington.


Have you guys considered throwing some uppers and such together to do some "scientific" comparisons?

Side note, you have any Mk12 uppers for your A1 lowers? I'd be curious to know if you have customers asking for the "Lone Survivor/American Sniper" gun.

We've talked about it but we continue to grow each month. We just hired employee number 58 yesterday and we still need to hire more. We are constantly playing a game of "catch up" but I know at some point we will plateau and things will stabilize so we can do some testing. I have one operations manager and three assistant managers and we talk about testing different models/products like melonite or nitride but we all agree "there's not time for that shit" and get back to emails, customers waiting in line or dealing with HMMWV's

Have you ever thought about switching to KAC in order to decrease parts breakages? ie: bolt, cam pin, etc


I am so far out of the loop as to what's hot, what's not and who's making the cool stuff. Are there issues with the PSA uppers and/or barrels? They haven't let me down yet but I will keep you guys posted if they fail in what I consider prematurely.

As for KAC items, I always remember having an issue with availability when we opened a retail store (another store here in Las Vegas) five years ago. The rifles weren't available like a DD or LMT (as well as all the others) and back then the only rifle I remember people asking about were the SR-25's.

We just purchased 162 acres only twenty minutes away from the Las Vegas Strip and I planned on purchasing quite a few of the SR-25's for the 1,000 meter "sniper experience". One of my assistant managers used that as his weapon when he was a sniper in the Army (yes, a real sniper and even featured in the Sniper Challenge DVD when he was still active-duty) and wants it added to the outdoor line-up.



I am interested in seeing your results with the PSA uppers, but the length will sway the results heavily.  Also, have y'all thought about adding something with night vision?

I've always tried to purchase the best quality product that I could afford, be it the most expensive or the average cost. It's worth paying for quality because though a cheap BCG may tempt some others, it just means more jamming, less happy customers, more time with the armorers, less time making money, etc. The same goes with the barrels. I was BLOWN away one day when I walked back into the armory and one of the armorers said "doc, I hope you don't get pissed but one of your original barrels is done". I was the completely opposite of mad because I couldn't believe a J&T barrel lasted that long when I've always believe the old "25,000-30,000" barrel life for an AR/M4. It opened my eyes to all the things that I read previously and never had the time or money (wife has ALWAYS held on tight to the purse strings) to go shoot 50,000 rounds down range and verify for myself.

As for night vision, I definitely have something planned for that. We purchased 162 acres of property only 20 minutes away from the Las Vegas Strip for one more level of extreme. When you visited Battlefield Vegas, your RSO may have placed all of your weapons on a cart and taken them on to the range with you. At our new place, every group will jump into a HMMWV with your weapons and an RSO. Guests will be able to shoot MK-19's, M2HB's, M240's and M-134 miniguns from HMMWV's or main battle tanks. Night shoots will be scheduled but we won't be able to "walk in" night shoots. Vegas is loaded with more Happy Hour places than anywhere else and I can't afford to put my guys in harms way with a intoxicated customer and if they are scheduled events, we can control the groups/customers that want to go out and shoot at night with tracers and night vision.


I'm guessing most of Battlefield Las Vegas customers don't drop mags.

The customers don't drop the mags but the mag loaders and the RSO's definitely do. I've tried to implement ways to lesson the abuse but at average cost of $10 per magazine, it's hard to change the procedures in order to keep things moving. The RSO's will dump their mags into a bucket if they are with a group or larger party. The mag loaders will load the mags and if they don't have a cart to load them onto, they dump from table top height (4ft tall loading bench) into a 5-gallon bucket on the ground.

We really don't have a set maintenance for mags because most of them don't give us problems. The RSO's will check magazines first (after they finish with a customer) before they take a weapon back for malfunction issues. The AR an AK factory metal mags just run like champs but once in awhile if a magazine was used on a suppressed weapon it does cause carbon to build up. The guys will take them apart, run a few rag through, squeeze some oil, wipe it dry and put it back on the line.

To be fair about the Pmags, they have replaced all the broken mags we have returned to them. It's not like we break them everyday but when they do break, it's usually at the back of the magazine or near the rear portion of the feed lips. The Magpul G36 mags are rock solid and we yet to break one of those in over two and half years.



 In case you use silencers on the line, have you noticed that any types (or materials) of cans that seem to wear out quicker than others?

We use the following suppressors on the these weapons:

Surefire: Barrett .50BMG, M240, M249
AAC: M16/M4, Glock, Beretta,Walther P22, Sig Mosquito
Silencerco: FNP
YHM: M16/M4, Glock, Berreta, Walther P22, Sig Mosquito
Bowers: MAC-10, MAC-11 (.380)
TPM: MP5-SD

All of the cans have held up and each has suffered some sort of baffle strike from barely noticeable to extremely noticeable with the exception of the Barrett .50BMG suppressor. We don't use it that often but now that we have our upgraded M107A1 headed back from Barrett, it will start to be used on a regular basis.




Do you keep track of mrbs?

It's not feasible for us to keep track of MRBS because of the pace on the range. Also, it's not something that's really plays a big part of what we do. My RSO's are tasked with customer safety first and then customer satisfaction. They couldn't provide both of those and try and keep track of weapons jamming and take the info back to the armorers without the first two starting to lack. If a weapon jams once, there's a good chance it was user-related but a second jam means the customer gets a new weapon and they start all over with a fresh magazine, even if they got 24 out of 25 rounds down range. Most of the customers won't take the additional magazine because they feel guilty but it's worth the cost of the ammo to make sure leave with a huge grin and satisfied.

general questions

This is our first "vacation" (just a quick, two-day drive to the beach) since we opened the range and I promised the wife no business so I'll make it quick with a few points.

- we do lose extractors and even lost the extractor on the HK. I don't blame them because we have had extractors break at early round counts and high round counts from the same mfr's.

- we've used CHF barrels alongside standard chrome-lined barrels (LMT, J&T, Green Mountain) and though I don't have a true round count, they were put online at about the same time with the same amount of use and one didn't do "better" than the other. Remember, my only concern for accuracy is that it can hit the red center of a target at 15 yards.


When using BCG's manufactured by other than DD or LMT what failures did you see.

There have been instances where changing a bolt wouldn't correct the malfunction issues but swapping out carriers did correct the issue. I don't know what exactly "wears" out but if I didn't personally see it with my eyes I would've doubted it myself.

 How is the barrel and parts wear on full size 20" ARs vs. the carbines?  
How often to you replace buffer springs on the carbines / full size 20" AR rifles?


The 20" weapons get used daily but only about a fifth of the time as the shorter barreled units. I'll have to check the maintenance logs but I don't believe we've lost any bolts, carriers or any other major components in one of them.

ETA: the armorers have a yard stick glued to the table with measurements for each weapon system's minimum recoil spring length. They checked on a regular basis and swapped as needed.

As for the vintage rifles, the commercial Springfield Armory op rods have broke several times in the M14's, Garand op rods have worn out and cracked but they were all 40's vintage with who knows how many rounds through them. Lastly, the M2 carbines have lost several Op rods, bolts have cracked as well extractors breaking on a regular basis.


1. There is some controversy over if the Forward Assist is really needed.  
2.  Supposedly the Steyr AUG's a do you have any, and any commentary on how long they last compared to the AR platform?
3. (.  With as many rounds fired, do you ever experience Kabooms?


I had my manager send a RSO-wide text and the only time they ever use them is with the CMMG .22 conversion kits.

With AUG, I know we've broken at least one bolt, several firing pin springs, at least one extractor and a few firing pins.

We've had a few kabooms but only in the AR and AK platforms. The AK's could be contributed both to ammo and high round count. We had a particular AR mfg's barrels kaboom on us. Initially we thought it was a hot round but it happened two more times so we pulled the barrels (Scared the hell out of the customers and I bought each of the dinner at The Palm Resturaunt which they all enjoyed). The hot ammo was from a company that loads rounds with lake city pull-downs and that's all we could source during a ammo sales scare/hype. We sent the other 140,000 rounds back on their dime.

I'm not going to say who the barrels were mfg'ed by because it was contained to a certain lot and they got us squared away immediately.

We've seen the occasional projectile loaded upside down in Federal ammo when used it but I've seen other companies do that as well.


if you were able to get your hands on just a couple Knights SR16s or even just a few SR15 uppers, the information would be incredibly valuable.

, but I'd be SUPER curious to know if you've ever tried FIRE Clean. I

OK, we used Fire Clean on our 249's, 240's and some of the M4's on the advice of a friend about two years ago. It was relatively new and right when the range really started picking up. The armorers said that though they were pretty sure the weapons appeared to be "wet" longer, they couldn't justify me spending the money after they saw what my cost was going to be. Also, one of the armorers in particular said that if we had followed the instructions as provided they wouldn't have been that "wet" because they were much more liberal with the application than the directions called for. I am not knocking the product because I am sure it does what it's supposed to but I don't think many weapons get this much abuse on a daily basis.

I will purchase a Knight's weapon system because I am sure there is a Modern Warfare, Call of Duty or Battlefield game with one that I can make another package with some new weapons we just recently got it. I know some guys frown on the whole video game thing but those kids are going to be the next generation of gun owners and they know more than most adults. They come in knowing the rate of fire, magazine capacity and caliber like they've slinging them for years.

Also, I will definitely purchase a few of the KAC bolts and isolate them to certain M4's that get most of the abuse. I'll probably have one of the guys rebarrel the weapons with new PSA uppers so we zero starting point that shouldn't have any effect on the bolt's performance.



This is cool. I am jealous. Have y'all ever used BCM bolts or any other of their components?

We have not used BCM products in our range. It's never been because of an issue of quality but more of convenience. We order direct with Daniel Defense and LMT and since we opened the doors, I haven't had the time to ever open an account with or know if they even offer terms. Loyalty it's HUGE in my book and the guys at Daniel Defense have always managed to get us our product. Just like Magtech, when some ammo/weapons ban hype hits, everybody is somehow "sold out" of everything except Daniel Defense. The manufacturers do it and the distributors do it but that's way it works. Everybody has a method of how to do things but Daniel Defense has never called us to say, "sorry, all the M4's that you ordered last year are now more valuable and we can get X amount more for them so we are going to cancel". Also, when  the hype is over they don't try and send a few pallets of M4's (mfr will remain nameless) and say... "oh, those are the units that your ordered 22 months ago" because they are sitting on warehouse of inventory even AFTER they broke their own contract.

To me, a deal is a deal and when we meet at SHOT Show and you shake my wife's and my hand agreeing to send product, you don't go back on your word because the market is hot. That's not only happened with the AR platform if you know what I mean




As a Colt fanboy I'm curious if you've used Colt products and how they've held up. Inferior to the DD and LMT pieces

I didn't event think about this but we've had three Colt 9mm 10.5" "Commando's" on the line since day one and they see a LOT of action. The only things that those weapons have suffered a few broken/worn disconnectors, a few hammer pins and ONE firing pin... that's it.

We are about to put a bunch of the Colt "LE M4" carbines on the line shortly and I am curious to see how well they hold up.




general comment :
Another aspect of the AR/M4 platform that we have managed to break are some quad rails. We've used some very cheap Korean-made quad rails that continue to work and we've had very expensive free-float quad rails from two premier mfg's fail. The construction of the Korean units are heavy, screwed together with six machine screws and they work. The other brands are very lightweight, expensive and still my personal favorites but the welds and areas around the barrel nut have cracked.

Our customers hold on for dear life most of the time so there is a force pushing forward and down (vertical foregrip) and the stock is locked against their pectoral muscle/chest plate along with their upper arm exerting a downward force almost in a "bending" fashion. Nobody was too surprised about the free float rails cracking because of the way customers hold on so tight.

ETA: The old-school GI-issue KAC rails continue to do the job.




Ever tried (or had any issues) with the DD RIS II rails?


Just messaged one of the RSO's and he said that we have not lost any of the RIS rails.

I was going to start another thread regarding optics but the optics forum doesn't get much traffic.Should I just discuss it here in the AR Forums since all of our AR/M4's have optics??? Let me know what you guys think.



That said, civilians blowing through rounds full auto sickens me. rant snipped

You couldn't be any further from the truth with your opinion but I will enlighten you about what we do and how we do it.

First, every single day that I am there (and I work six days a week at least 10-12 hours a day) I hear "oh my God.. I had no clue that's what it's really like" or "how did those guys do it during (insert WWII, Korea, Vietnam, OIF, OEF)" and the "wow.. I never wanted to touch a gun in my life but that's the most fun I think I've ever had". The customers DO walk away with an appreciation that THEY have because 90% of our guests don't own a weapon, let alone have ever seen a real, functioning example in person. Their only knowledge of a gun is from a movie where some actor holds two Uzi's or AK's and sprays across the scene killing every bad guy in sight. My staff are allowed to talk ZERO politics with guests and it always puts a smile on my face when I hear "I am from NYC/San Francisco and we just don't like guns but wow... that was SO different than what I thought it was going to be like... can I buy something like this where I live".  

Now, add to the fact that over 90% (actually higher but I don't have the time to do the math) of my staff are either prior service or still in the Guard/Reserves and the respect and appreciation factor just doubled with our guests. Every single one of my RSO's is prior service or Guard/Reserves (as well as all our drivers and my managers) and a majority of them are OIF/OEF combat vets. You can hear their appreciation when they start asking "so ALL of you were in the military.. my gosh, thank you so much for your service (and I would bet 99 out of 100 people have never uttered those words in their life).

As for the making money comment... I don't employ 58 people just to give me something to do, of course it's to make money just like any other business model. It's called capitalism and that's what we do. I don't judge people for their occupations because as long as it's legal and you feel comfortable with it, all the power to you.

I deal with GI's everyday that have heavy baggage they brought home with them from Iraq and Afghanistan. Nobody ever says the "PTSD" word because the minute you do, you're a "faggot" or "pussy". Meanwhile, as the employer I see it through their eyes and hear it in their words. I feel that I have a VERY generous policy towards PTO and if things are bugging you, take it. It also means that if you need to change from RSO to driver or driver to armorer, then so be it. It's put us in a bind more than once but since I claim we provide a "military experience", I as the employer, am also working in a "military experience". Everyday isn't sunshine and roses but I wouldn't trade a single one of my staff because they each bring their own "military experience" to work with them and that is what's made us so successful. I could go on and on about my staff because I know each of them by their name and they continue to raise the bar on what I think model employees should be. Quite a few of my guys are still in their twenties and medically retired from injuries they sustained while overseas. It lays heavy on my heart how these young men are so physically and emotionally damaged (IED's, blast injuries, falls, etc) but we adjust OUR schedule around them, not like most standard businesses.

Lastly, there are places like the ones you described here in Vegas. I know for a fact they are in it for the money and it's just an equation of how many customers can they get through the door and how fast can they get them through. They have the "gun girl" RSO's with hot pants, fishnet stockings and low-cut tops and that's 100% fine with me. They are providing a service to customers and they providing jobs. My problem is when they endanger employees and customers with shitty safety practices. We try to avoid hiring staff from other ranges because nobody wants retreads from places with bad practices but occasionally there are some gems among them. I know exactly how many ranges can give two shits about employees and lead hazards, throwing away filters contaminated with lead right into the garbage, writing employees up and firing them for having high lead levels (so OSHA doesn't find out how bad things are) or the TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars we spend each month to ensure a safe environment for both my staff and guests. That may seem like a stretch to some of you but trust me, I would rather be spending that kind of money each month on something else but it what it is. It's the cost of doing business and keeping my staff safe.

As for the little girl in Arizona, the day that happened I had SO many of my RSO's come up to me and say, "damn Doc, you're right about those mini subguns". My staff had always asked for them (and the new RSO's as they came on board) but I always told them no little subguns unless we have a front strap for the wrist AND a suppressor. I must give credit to Tony D over at The Gun Store because he's the one that advised me specifically against the micro or mini Uzi's because of the rate of fire and transfer of weight with the heavy bolt causing the weapon to act like a teeter totter. I do have MAC's (.45, 9mm,.380) but again, they have huge and heavy Bower's suppressors to keep them down. Also, my staff has ALWAYS had the discretion to choose if a customer is suited for a particular weapon. If my RSO's don't feel comfortable with the customer and the weapons they chose, they are getting substituted with something can do and I usually refund the customer as well. It's worth the extra ammo so everybody is comfortable.

One last word about my staff. I hired a new driver two weeks ago. He initially turned in an application four weeks prior but let one of my managers know that he had used marijuana three weeks prior. My manager told him that we drug test and it wasn't a good idea to submit an application. He did come back in after waiting about three weeks and my manager spotted him submitting the application. He notified me and I told him lets review his application before just tossing it. Everything looked good; infantry E5 who was running and gunning and DD-214 matched up with application. I told my manager to go ahead and interview him on the spot. After all was said and done about his service, he called him out on smoking pot. He admitted that he's had issues adjusting since being home and he was hoping that it would help him relax but instead made him more depressed. He said he heard about a place where it' mostly GI's working together in a military-style environment and he was hoping he would fit in. I told my manager to hire him on the spot and start issuing him uniform, boots and get him out for a whiz quiz and background check ASAP. Two days later he walked up to me and asked if he could talk. I said of course as my staff know that I have an open-door policy for personal matters. He told me that he thinks this is the best thing that's ever happened. He said he's tried to get jobs at other places but when you go from 100 miles per hour to zero it hits you hard. When just a couple months ago when you were shooting people down range and you have your boys with you everyday life gets turned upside down when you can't talk about it with fellow employees who will think you're crazy and going to do something stupid. He looked at me with those same eyes I get from so many of the staff and said thank you for doing this. He said he needed to get back in uniform, he needed to talk to guys who are on his level and have been there, done that and can cope with words that come out of his mouth.

So, I am 100% at ease with myself, my business practices, my staff and the experiences that I feel our guests truly do appreciate here at Battlefield Vegas.



general answers:

I apologize for not replying earlier so I will try and provide a bit more insight.

- We don't use steel-cased ammo in our AR15 platforms. We had to use it awhile back after the Sandy Hook incident when ammo was hard to get and we did lose extractors on more-than-average basis.

- Cam path wear is definitely noticeable on the uppers.

- I believe the armorers clean the AR's every 5-7 days.. sooner if needed and if business is good. After every cleaning, the armorers run twenty-five rounds down range and they check to make sure the rounds group somewhat close and they check for good ejection

- We have never used any of the "after market" gas tubes like those that have been coated with Melonite, adjustable systems or "pig tails". I've always tried to use "factory" parts wherever possible to keep things simple. I like the idea of the Melonite gas tube though, I just didn't know something like that was available.

- Regarding gas piston systems, the pistons have snapped (or bent) and even some of the roller cam pins have snapped right off. The only one to last so far has been the HK system.

- We have product-tested some other BCG's that were finished in some sort of Cerokote, Molyresin or other finish.. I just know they weren't parkerized. The carriers themselves held up even without the finish but the bolts themselves didn't last as long as the LMT or DD units.

- The one weapon that I know that has a factory Cerokote that has lasted 100% with ZERO defects is our Barrett M107A1. We've had this weapon for quite some time and it gets it regular cleanings and even though we don't dip the receiver into the ultrasonic cleaner, it still looks pretty close to new.

- I checked with the armorers and we've had to use anti-walk pins in a total of three receivers. Two of the holes were "egged" but it turns out that old primers made their way under the trigger and the increased pressure put stress on the pins. The receiver gave before the pins did so KNS anti-walk pins were installed. We had to use them on an auto-sear pin hole for one of the receivers.


To answer your question Blood_Donor, I would say the most reliable "alternative" is the FN SCAR. That weapon has yet to break or wear out a bolt, brake a hammer, or any other major part. IIRC, we've only lost a charging handle and hammer spring. A stock was broken due to being dropped by staff and our SCAR-L has had three new barrels installed. The SCAR-L has been on the line since day one (it was used prior to that as well) and we opened on 01 OCT 13.

A brief answer to the optics questions... I used to be a Eotech fanboy prior to opening the range but they didn't last long at all. It was always something with the Eotechs.. if the batteries weren't constantly dying, then it just quit working and THEN it was out of warranty. The Aimpoints and ACOG's just work and if they do "break".. we send them back and they are backed by proper warranties.


How do you get spare parts for your older guns like mp-40 and other old guns? Also, since you have new shooters there do you use recoil pads and compensators to help with recoil?



Getting spare parts for these guns is something that I have to do every single day of the week.. .literally checking 10-15x daily on Gunbroker or other websites with NFA items. I have one gentleman here in Las Vegas that does the gun show circuit in Southern NV, Southern California and Southern Utah and he constantly text me pics of items that he knows I am looking for. I am sure he adds a few points (or more) on everything he finds but knows our collection and constantly surprises me with the things he will find.  

The hardest systems to find parts for are the MP-44, Japanese MG's, M-134 and the M-79 to just name a few. I spend on average $10,000 monthly for spare/replacement parts but some months I might get "lucky" and find a demilled MP-44 kit for $6,500+ or demilled Japanese MG (Type 92, Type 96, Type 99) kit for $3,500+ and have to jump on them fast.

As for the other question, we don't add recoil pads or compensators to any of the weapons, in fact, I try to remove any muzzle brake/comp if possible. They increase the noise in the range substantially and I try to keep the range as tolerable for the RSO's as possible. The one recent exception is the HCAR's compensator. That weapon is a .30-06 and it feels like I am shoot a Colt HBAR.


You guys run 308 Battle rifles? AR-10s? FN FALs? G3s?
How do they stack up under high round counts?



We do run full-auto FAL's, G3's, M14's, SCAR-H's and even a full-auto SIG 716 (though this one is rarely used). Other than the commercial op rods in the M14's, the main battle rifles are all pretty much unremarkable. They get used every day of the week and just keep running pretty much without issues.

Proud of the TDI setup.


My RSO's like it because they said it they don't feel as much recoil and the customers can control it better.

general comment

I want to clarify that we have NOT used a LWRC rifle here on our range. I don't want to give the impression that we have by not omitting them when I said we've tried all the piston systems. I will try and update some the thread with responses to more questions soon.


I would be interested in your maintenance intervals on these weapons.  
We've thought about that for quite awhile. The problem is the continued growth that we are experiencing. Growth is good thing but it doesn't allow us to put the mechanisms in place to accurately track round count.

Some of the ideas we have are to bar code each weapon so when it goes out on the line, it gets scanned along with the quantity of magazines going along with it. I would have to hire another full-time employee just to handle that procedure. That's not a bad thing because that employee would assemble each of the packages for the RSO and have it ready for them to hit the range. Again, we are still growing and we are probably going to have to expand the range another 14 lanes so that's a priority at this time.




What ABOUT piston guns is the failure point?

Pistons and rods have bent and cracked. Springs in the piston system have failed and roller cams on the failed cause the upper receiver to seize up.


general comment
Here are two more components that broke yesterday. The first is a standard flash hider that cracked in five spots and the other, while not AR-related, is something that has happened to AR bolts.

The bolt is from a SCAR-L that has been on the line since day one (01 OCT 13). I think I've said it in this thread that I initially had no confidence in the SCAR, this weapon AK-47 of the West. It just runs and runs and made me a believer. I talked about the SCAR weapons with some the armorers yesterday and they couldn't believe how long the bolt on this weapon has lasted. We've had several barrel swaps and the bolt was perfectly fine.


http://i.imgur.com/TmM40Le.jpg</a>" />


http://i.imgur.com/tf09ZeC.jpg</a>" />




  I'm starting to think that Ron won't comment on this, since he doesn't want to be held liable for the loss of profits to several famous manufacturers.


As litigious as the business world is, I am not going to open myself up to some manufacture that doesn't want to hear the truth about their product in MY range. The rounds we put through each weapon system is not what most people will ever put through in a lifetime. I think it would be fair to say if I named one company who's product failed, with something subjective like a gas piston system in a MG range, it's plausible that somebody would feel that I did substantial harm to their product and/or name.



If you can, please provide a general commentary on your experience with trigger/hammer pins:  MIL-SPEC -vs- aftermarket -vs- anti-rotation pins  (both for 5.56 and 9mm if possible)



I am not sure about the mil-spec quality of the trigger pins but I know that one of our hammer pins broke and one in particular was replaced with an aftermarket pin that wasn't "notched" in the center for the retainer spring in the hammer. It kept walking out and somebody tagged the weapon as having an egg'ed/enlarged hammer pin hole but after I went through it, I couldn't see any evidence of it enlarging. I've tried to say out of the armory on purpose so the armorers don't feel that the "boss" is watching what they're doing but I truly have a passion for this stuff. I pushed the hammer pin out to make sure that it just wasn't illusion of the hole NOT being enlarged. It looked normal and that's when I noticed that the notch in the middle of the pin wasn't there. The staff didn't look for it and I can't really blame them because it's just ASSUMED that all pins have the hammer and trigger spring notches in them. I went through our AR parts bin and found three more like this out of at least thirty pins. We've used aftermarket LPK's when in a pinch for parts in the past and these were clearly from those kits.

We have two sets of KNS auto-sear pins for weapons that have had the auto-sear hole enlarge. These are for post sample weapons that at the very least four years-old that we used to use for LE weapons familiarization classes. The KNS pins have kept both weapons properly since the installation.


I am curious about the Eotech failures,are they the older 512 type versions or the transverse battery type like the exps3?

We had a newer EXP3-type (not sure of the model numbers/nomenclature) that went down after the warranty expired in addition to the older units.


Ron, have KNS pins ever broke on you?

We have not broken any KNS pins.

pages 18-33

comment

Folks,

I apologize that I haven't been able to do much updating on the current topics or start the optic thread but I will get to it... just need a little time away from work.

That being said, I posted in this thread awhile back about using the TD-415 (HK 416 clone) upper on the range. It has been working like a champ up until a few days ago. The recoil spring appears to have failed. It didn't break but you can tell by looking at it that something happened to it. We had a customer that wanted to shoot THAT gun so we pulled the recoil rod and spring assembly from our broken HK MR556 unit and got it up and running.

The one thing that we did with the TD-415 upper different from the factory MR556 is that the TD unit has had a suppressor on it since day one. That's a LOT more gas and pressure and it's been on the line every day since my original post. I can't give you an accurate or even ballpark round count as I haven't had time to check the maintenance logs. I thought I would just give you an update on that specific unit since quite a few people asked me my opinion about it. That being said, I really like the upper. It cleans up easy and other than every single round being shot through it is suppressed and 90% of that being full-auto, just a spring failing seems like a minor issue.

I just received another TD upper after waiting for about 6 weeks after I paid for it. This one is the 10" model and we don't plan on suppressing this one so let's see how much longer we get out of the recoil spring.

Where is everyone getting a Titan Defense 416


From what I can gather, they are the same maker as Cohaire Arms, Special Weapons, etc.

We paid for the 10" upper six weeks (honestly, it may have been longer) and after waiting and waiting and waiting, one of my managers filed a claim with Gunbroker (not that it would help) to make sure we had a record of it. I can't remember if it was the email or the address of the location, but something in one of the email responses clued me into who the maker is.

Ever have any auto sears break/fail?

No, we have yet to lose an auto sear.

Were you able to determine the manufacturer of those Korean quad rails you mentioned earlier in the thread?


I just tried to look up the company that imported them and they used to go by Mik Mak Inc. They did a name change and started expanding but looks like they were indicted back in OCT 2014.

https://www.fbi.gov/losangeles/press-releases/2014/owner-of-la-habra-manufacturing-firm-charged-with-illegally-manufacturing-and-selling-key-component-for-ar-15-type-rifles

Any update on those full auto Colts?
The Colt's continue to run flawlessly. 9/8/15

but how are you acquiring your range's MG's?

We were the subcontractors for a large FWT contract out at Ft Polk that required an extensive collection of weapon systems. The contract has expired.

ETA: We continue to offer FWT and other classes to local and Federal agencies as well as individual military units.

Question: With the near constant attrition of machine gun parts and pieces, do you go to local machinist to have work done or is everything maintained in house?

Also, another poster asked and I'll reask:
How are the AR-18/180s holding up?

We've been using a local machinist to start making parts for us that hard to acquire. At this point, we are expanding our own mfg to not only make receivers but other parts as well. Our own gunsmith/machinist has made the entire M60 receiver onsite. He started with M60 trunion castings but milled them to 100% and had them hardened locally as well as the sheet metal, rails and bridges. We've done the same thing with plenty of other receivers but parts availability for some weapons is almost non-existent.

As for the Armalite, we don't have any of the "new" B models but we do have some original AR-180's. The haven't had any problems but one continues to have the pins walk out.


What problems do you see with PMAGs?

The backend's of the magazine where the bolt picks up the round have cracked. It's not like they crack that often to be an issue where we won't use them. Also, their warranty policy is one of the best. We've packed up a box of broken mags, sent it to Magpul and they send back a box of new replacement mags, no questions asked.

Someone asked about an update on the PSA

The PSA uppers are running like champs and the RSO's like grabbing them first because of the short barrel. It creates a bigger flash, louder bang and bigger smile

We have lost one bolt due to a cracked lug but the round count and use is on par with others considering that some have been lost in longer/shorter periods than others. One cracked lug is nothing out of the ordinary for any of the LMT or DD bolts at this point in the length time and amount of use.

Do you have a COLT 6940P (PISTON ) ON THE RANGE

That is one piston system that we have ever used or purchased for the range. Just because of our past experience with piston guns, we won't put any other new piston systems on the range.

do you notice suppressors on the longer barrels lasting longer or has this even been an issue?

Off the top of my head.. I know we have YHM and AAC 5.56 cans that we've used since day one and they both continue to function properly and no noticeable erosion. I know that we also have Surefire cans as well but IIRC, the YHM is the oldest can (about 7-8 years old) with NO issues and it's still used weekly

argument about hk barrels,  HK USA should have sent them a replacement barrel for a defective barrel

As for the replacement, I know HK will not replace the barrel on a weapon like that because it was converted to a Post Sample and I have ZERO problems with that. To be honest, I thought that the MR556 was just supposed to be a "civilian version" of the HK 416. I've been out of the retail loop for so long I didn't know all the differences until I started this thread. I did have a friend who works at a LARGE military weapons manufacturing company tell me that the MR556 had a "crap" barrel. So, that being said, if I knew the barrel wasn't meant to be used just like the 416 then I probably would have used it more for the "sniper" packages.



How are the 10" TD415 uppers doing? interested in seeing how the enhanced LMT bolts and/or the relia-bolt hold up  

Here's some info about two different M4 bolts that broke yesterday.

I talked to the armorers about the two Sharp's relia-bolts that we have. I don't know how we received them because I didn't purchase them. I am not sure if they were sent to us for testing or if a distributor/dealer rep dropped them off. What I can tell you that is one broke a lug off yesterday and it had only been on the line for approximately seven days. Apparently the other bolt lasted approximately 4 months before cracking.

As for people have asked about the Palmetto State Armory uppers, another one of the PSA bolts broke yesterday as well. It was in a 11.5" upper and the bolt cracked in half at the cam pin section. This particular complete upper assembly went into service on 14 MAR 15. I checked the maintenance log and less than one month after the rifle going on the line, it had to have a cam pin replaced (cracked) and the extractor replaced on 02 APR 15. The weapon was taken out of service on 25 MAY 15 for "short stroking" by the RSO's. After an armorer had a chance to examine the rifle, it was actually a broken gas key in addition to two of the gas key eroding away. A new gas key and gas rings were installed and it went back into service. The staff didn't make any additional notes (other than headspace which was still good to go) during the days of maintenance until the bolt broke yesterday.

The PSA rifle is more of a "favorite" of the guys because they are fairly new, still look clean (though looking clean has ZERO to do with function and ALL about the customer's perception of a good or bad gun) and give a big flash and bang for the customer experience. It has seen almost daily service since going into service in March. We started doing the numbers on this rifle and here's a quick breakdown on a fair to conservative break down on round count.

It's fair to say that every M4 on the line sees a minimum of 250 rounds per day (and that's being VERY conservative). Take that number and average that to six days a week because they take it out of service one day each week for cleaning and maintenance (even then, once cleaned it goes directly back on the line). That would give us 26 days per month of use and it almost made it 6 complete months until the bolt completely broke. That averages out to 39,000 rounds of use for that upper assembly until the bolt broke and suffered a complete catastrophic failure. Because the bolt did break, the armorers checked the throat erosion (no issues) because they wanted to see for themselves how well it's handled.

We talked about the quality of the upper as a whole after all the notes were written down in the maintenance log. They asked me my opinion about the quality and if I would purchase more. I told them for what I paid for the complete upper (it's the "premium" model with the CHF barrel), the amount of use we got out of it AND that we will still get use out of it with the addition of another bolt, I would definitely purchase more. I also told them I would like to purchase a DD, LMT and use another one of the PSA uppers (have plenty in reserves) and put them all on the line at the same time. I would want to make sure that each came off the line exactly at the same time for maintenance during the "evaluation" see which unit outlasts the other. It won't be "scientific" by any stretch because all three mfgs can't control every process involved. None of the mfr's can be 100% certain that a lot of steel is without defect, that the company handling heat-treat did everything 100% by the book and so on.

I will have an update this week or tomorrow on a brand new 9mm Colt that we put on the line 09 SEP 15 and how long it didn't last

The week long Reliabolt isn't impressive but we don't know if it was a recalled bolt or not.

This is exactly why I wanted to let you folks know that I don't know where we got them from. Quite a few of the bigger mfr's use outside sales companies to promote and sell their products. When they stop by, they will at times leave products for us to test or sample. I still haven't had time to find out exactly who received them but I will find out. Also, I don't allow my staff to solicit any mfr's for their products under the guise of "testing". If somebody gives me something for free then I feel compelled to return the favor of being nice to them. We've had several companies reach out to us recently and I didn't want to take any product for free because again, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings if their product didn't perform.

There is one company that did approach me regarding the issues with the broken hammer pins on our shorty 8.5" PDW and the PAINFUL trigger slap. He offered to send me one free of charge but I asked that I pay for it. It's a front gas block with a restrictor that reduces the amount of gas coming into the gun. When it arrived, I right away installed it myself and tested it. Not only did the rate of fire drop somewhere between a full-size M16 and 10.5" M4, but it also had ZERO trigger slap. It's held up so far, no signs of gas escaping around the gas block, screws aren't backing out and it actually made the little PDW enjoyable. The owner's name is Robert and his company is called MicroMOA.com and I want to thank him for reaching out to us. Customer experience is key and I honestly HATED shooting the PDW because of the trigger slap. My RSO's all use thick gloves and it still didn't help much. The gas block is restricted top .0625" and I wasn't expecting much from it to be honest. I ordered four more so we can build some more PDW's because customers like it because of how cool it looks.

I'll get some more pics of it and the PDW posted later today if I get some time.

What is your general policy regarding security threat response, specifically your RSO's

Most of the staff (drivers, mag loaders, RSO's, armorers and managers) open carry to deter any potential criminals by showing a force of no less than 30 armed personnel. Some staff choose to conceal carry but the Operations Manager has to sign off on it with and verify they have a CCW. The staff are also allowed to get ammo and trigger time at the end of the shift to stay proficient.

We've had several LE agencies that have stopped by make comments about our security. They've all said that we shouldn't worry about a thing because if criminals are going to hit one of the nearby gun ranges, they will hit one of the several ranges where a majority of the RSO's are in tight Daisy Dukes and not carrying a sidearm.

I would also echo the suggestion to use LMT's enhanced BCG for the PDW's.

Iv'e never noticed how the two lugs on the LMT enhanced bolt nearest the extractor are different. Here's some a bolt that failed this week and it just happens to be the two lugs that are part of the features of a LMT bolt. It looks like LMT did their homework because they definitely know more that any of my armorers or myself with know. Also, LRRPF52, thank you bring that valuable information to the discussion!!!!

general comment

I wanted to get more information from our armorers before I posted our issues with a brand new Colt 9mm carbine.

We received a new Colt semi-auto carbine from a distributor approximately 3 weeks ago. We have a demo scheduled with an LE agency scheduled for December and one weapon in particular they asked about was a 9mm carbine in select-fire. We finally go around to adding it to the NFA Registry and doing a conversion on the lower receiver as a proper Post Sample MG.

The owner of New Frontier Armory (my best friend and co-founder of Batltefield Vegas) wanted to test-fire a new unfired Colt compared to his new 9mm AR's that he has been developing. We put less than sixty rounds down range because I personally grabbed the three magazines and we didn't finish all of the ammo (shooting all the time tends to get old believe it or not).

Later that night, we had an event for 180 guests who rented out Battlefield Vegas. The event included the customers shooting four different weapons and the 9mm AR was on the list. I told the armorers to include the Colt in the weapons that will go on the line to "break it in" so there won't be any issues with the LE demonstration. After being used approximately 9-10 times the barrel fell completely off! It happened as one of my RSO's was grabbing it by the handguard and the rest of the weapon just fell to the ground. He said it was extremely awkward looking at the customer who was a first time shooter.

I asked the armorer if it had ANY issues prior to the barrel just falling off and he said absolutely not. The only thing we could come up with is that the barrel nut wasn't properly torqued down and the full-auto fire just let the barrel not slowly rotate itself off. If the barrel extension has a tight fit inside the upper receiver then it would continue to fire as long as the bullet seated and the bolt struck the round. One of my armorers who isn't up to speed on the functions of the 9mm said that it was impossible because the gas tube would have kept the barrel nut from rotating off. I explained to him that 9mm doesn't use a gas tube like his issued-M4 did when deployed.

Since then (approximately 10 days ago), both the hammer and trigger pins have snapped. It does have the proper 9mm factory bolt and the proper 9mm insert/spacer attached to the back of the recoil spring.

Just thought that this was crazy for Colt because all of the 5.56 carbines that we are using have had zero issues to date.

ave your scars eaten many optics?


We have Aimpoint PRO's on both -L's and -H's with no issues. I can't remember which scopes we have mounted on the other -H's but I will find out for you.
The reason many are going to ask about the SCAR is because there was a technical memo put out within SOCOM about the SCAR's breaking certain optics and electro-optical aiming devices that are SOPMOD accessories.
We have yet to lose a scope on one of the -H models but our accuracy is only gauged 10-15 yards. I will find out who made the scopes but all the cross hairs have remained in place and intact. As for the -L's, they all have PRO's on them and other than the abuse described in the optics thread, nothing out of the ordinary has been discovered. Until I can verify, I believe we are using Trijiocon and Bushnell scopes the -H models but I will confirm.

had problems with anyone getting seriously hurt with these failures

Most of the kabooms are only things we notice. Customers don't know what to expect when they are shooting so to them, they think the magazine just ran out of ammo. By putting certain measure in place, I think we will only reduce the chances of a kaboom or catastrophic accident. If you guys think you've learned something from this thread, just imagine how much WE HAVE learned from doing it every single day. The loose barrel on the Colt 9mm is just one more page in the PMCS' of putting a new weapon on the line. When we think we've seen it all, another gun or another part will break that everybody says "it can't happen" or "they don't break".

As for injuries, the worst thing we've experienced is a OOB with an M4 Uzi on a left-hand shooter. A piece of brass scratched his cheek on the way out of the chamber. It didn't scar him or even really shake him up. His friends were all laughing and blamed him for breaking our gun. I felt so bad that I let the shooter crush a car with a tank and I sent him and his friends (all Canadian guys in Vegas on a mancation) to dinner at Del Frisco's. I told them that the entire tab was on me and to order as much as they want and don't hold back. I was expecting like a $1,500-$2,000 bill but they only spent a little over $500. He actually emailed us and said we went above and beyond and thanked us for the experience. I know what I was like back in college and if I had three of my friends with me... that bill wouldn't have been that low

Any experience with mid-length gas system ARs?

I don't believe we have any mid-length systems on the line. We haven't really had any issues with carbine-length reliability as long as the weapon is maintained properly. The gas tubes in the carbine-length systems with 10.5"-12.5" barrels do erode away faster but we tens of thousands of rounds of use before they even begins to happen.

Out of curiosity any sig556's in inventory? If so how are they holding up?

We've lost approximately two recoil/op rod springs per SIG in the last THREE years (as of 01 OCT 12). It's a great weapon in my opinion.

Have you had any "non wear" parts break?

Actually, we have not. They continue to hold up to the abuse but we are surprised to be honest. They are either so tucked away inside or hard to "bang" against that we haven't had any issues to date.

What bolt rings do you have best luck with?

To be honest, I didn't know there were other options for gas rings. When a bolt brakes, we recover the extractor, ejector and gas rings. In fact, I was in the shop with the armorers yesterday and they were showing me a bunch of gas ring "residue" they have collected. I will pass the information about McFarland rings to my operations manager and have him order them. If they work any better than the standard units, I won't have a problem upgrading all of our AR's with them.


Curios if you guys have tried chrome silicone action / buffer springs?

We use standard buffer springs and IIRC, we bought the last huge lot from DS Arms. We haven't experienced any issues with springs, regardless if purchased as bench stock or originally equipment for the weapon. They do get checked every month for length with comparison to a new one.

I'm curious if your range operates 16in carbine length gas system ARs

It's fair to say that 90% of our AR's have a carbine length gas system. We haven't experienced what I would describe as accelerated wear. The only issue we had with short gas systems.. the pistol length, was constantly breaking hammer pins and trigger slap. Since we installed the regulated gas block from MicroMOA.com, we haven't experienced either of those issues to date.

Any update on how the PSA uppers are doing?

I talked to the armorers about the uppers and we have lost a second bolt to a lug cracking. We still think they are par with all the other uppers at this point considering they were all the shorty barrels.


Have you ever tried nickel boron coated BCGs?

I don't have any clue as to who's it was but we did have a nickle boron BCG at one point. I don't remember any details of the carrier group other than it didn't last as long as the other ones or we would have kept using them.

general comment

This is a just a bit off topic but it relates to why we prefer not to use American Eagle ammo. The .50BMG round on the left was just pulled right out of the black-boxed American Eagle packaging. It has a LC-13 date stamp on it and it looks as if it was a fail-to-feed M2HB round at one point (not that it was.. just making an observation) because of the bend. We see this on rounds that fail to feed in our M249's, M60's and M240's. We just lost our Advanced Armament suppressor that's mounted to one of our Barrett's due the front of the can not liking that small hole

The armorers are trying to determine the cause of the failure of the can and the first thing they did was go to the ammo and this round was in the first box they opened.


UPDATE: Palmetto State Armory

I've had quite a few PM's asking about the status of the Palmetto State Armory uppers. We have been running 5.56mm uppers with CHF and nitride 10.5", 11.5" and 12" barrel lengths as well as the 10.5" melonite 9mm uppers.

I never purchased melonite or nitrided uppers prior to these units (that I know of) and was actually more concerned about physical appearance to be honest. I know that even the cheapest barrels have lasted 10's of thousands of rounds with no issue but I wasn't sure how well the finish would hold up with all the cleaning and handling. As I've stated before, physical appearance is almost as important and functionality because customers who've never handled firearms before don't have much confidence in an ugly but reliable weapon. All three of the different types of uppers have held up with no issues or reliability of finish. These uppers in particular are getting used more than the others at this point because we put so many on the line.

With the 5.56 uppers, we've lost a total of 5 bolts since we put them on the line. I've paid particular attention to these uppers because I have to make sure that we are getting our money's worth (I know, they are cheap to begin with) and also reliable enough to give the customers a great experience. I've seen these guns with the PSA uppers on the line every day of the week and they just run. Of course we swap them out every few days for a cleaning but there isn't a day when there's at least 8 of their uppers on the line. The last three months have been a little busier than last year at the same time so the round count is higher than we expected for this time of the year. Depending when they went on the line, it's a fair estimate to say the lowest estimate for some is 30,000 rounds and up to 50,000 rounds on others. The uppers with the higher round counts have suffered from sheared/cracked bolt lugs but that is on par with bolts from other manufacturers.

The 9mm uppers we purchased have the 10.5" barrel and 7" quad rail. We've retired our Colt factory 9mm SMG's for complete rebuilds and the new PSA's have been on the line for the last 6-8 weeks now. The 9mm's are part of several "specials" so they get a good work out everyday. The PSA 9mm bolts are a bit different from the Colt models and I don't know if it was to cut costs, increase production or what the reason is but they shortened the key on top and eliminated one of the cap screws. We have Colt bolt carriers with 200,000+ rounds that continue to run but the PSA bolts (four out of five) have suffered from a lost key. The one cap screw shears (also held in by a roll pin) and the weapon can no longer be charged back because the charging handle has nothing to grab. Again, I don't know why the didn't use the Colt design of two cap screws (just like a standard 5.56 gas key uses) instead of one but we have yet to lose a key on a Colt bolt carrier. Since the key is only used for charging the weapon, the armorers decided to just weld the key in place and that has fixed the problem so far.

On a side note about 9mm's, we purchased five of the Quarter Circle 10 lowers to help with quicker recognition for the RSO's since the Colt's are going through a rebuild program. We used the lowers that accept the Colt 9mm magazines so we wouldn't have to purchase new magazines. Some of the staff asked about purchasing the lowers that use Glock magazines and even though Glock magazines are much easier to load than the Colt model, customers recognize the long, 32-round magazine that they see in movies and video games.

Lastly, an update about the 16" barreled Colt 6920's that we put on the line. They are getting used daily as well with no issues to date. It's fair to say they are in the 20,000+ round count range.

I am also very interested in anything you can say about .308/7.62x51 systems (Especially the DPMS G2 platform.)



Posted: 11/17/2015 12:47:58 PM EST
[Jump To Reply]Originally Posted By AKJun:
I am also very interested in anything you can say about .308/7.62x51 systems (Especially the DPMS G2 platform.) I know Adams Arms recently posted a video of a full auto version of their SF308: Adams Arms 12.5" 308 fully Automatic


We have a full-auto SIG 716 that hasn't had any issues to date but it doesn't get used very often. I think the staff use it more often that customers to be honest. I have a "Battle Rifle" package (includes F/A M14, FAL, G3 and SIG 716) that should put some heavy use on the SIG. Currently, the FAL's (original FN and Imbel), G3 (PTR post samples) and M14's (M1A post samples) hold up very well and have almost ZERO issues. Hopefully the SIG will hold up but if not, I have a DPMS .308 that can take it's place.

Other than buffer springs, have you used anything else from DS Arms?

We've only used buffer springs, buffer tubes, F/A assemblies and dust cover assemblies.



has there ever been problems getting ammo?


We purchase mainly from the mfg but there are times where distributors will have a really good price and we purchase as much as we can. As for getting ammo, we don't have problems ever since purchasing from Magtech.



general comment

Here are some of the bolts that we've gone through this year in addition to other parts. No weapon weapon system is immune to the hazards of being on our firing line. In this pile of bolts are M1928A1 Thompson bolts, M60 bolts, M134 minigun bolts, plenty of AR15 bolts, HK G36 bolts, HK MP5 bolts, AK bolts and even a Kriss Vector bolt. One thing that is pretty interesting is how the M249 gas tubes just slowly erode away.


I PM'd Ron about monetizing this information, but I didn't hear back,

I don't have the time to collect the information other than what I have passed on here the forum. I've got quite a few suggestions on how I should collect information and hiring people to do it but it's just one more thing to do a list that's already too long

if you have any more updates on the Colt rifle functionality,

I apologize for the lack or responses gentleman. We should have entered our slow down at the beginning of November but it's been full steam and hasn't let off. It only slowed down just a bit but all the upgrading and work we planned on doing kept getting pushed back. We want to make sure the range and property looks good for SHOT Show as we have special guests arriving here on the property for the entirety of SHOT. It's 0400 here in Vegas and I'm suffering from a little insomnia so I figured I would knock this out.

That being said, we have our Colt rifles on the line daily and have yet to suffer from a broke bolt, disconnector, firing pin or anything. They have been functioning flawlessly since coming on the line. They've all been dressed in Magpul furniture with the SL hand guards but we had to add the Vertical Fore Grip soon after because the hand guards get hot QUICK and customers are not able to handle the weapons safely without them. Standard Colt M4 double-line hand guards do stand up better to the heat but I like the fact that the Magpul sets extend further down the barrel to prevent further chance of burning a hand from handling the weapon.

We also started using (can't remember if I mentioned it previously) the Quarter Circle 10 lowers with PSA 7.5 railed uppers in 9mm and they too run great. We are using the YHM 9mm buffers in them and along with a little modification to the disconnector, we are getting no trigger slap.

I promise I will get a shotgun thread going but I will give you a bit of a spoiler..... Benelli M4

Everyone thinks it's so easy to run a biz and do extra stuff that doesn't add to the bottom line

Just as stated above and I am NOT trying to be a jerk to anybody but this is SO true. Our day from beginning to end is never ending.

A perfect example would have been yesterday. Right now we should be in our slow season but the customers never stopped from the moment we opened until a little after 7:00pm. My managers didn't even get a chance to get lunch, the armorers were dealing with a new issue that we've never seen before on a AR15/M4 upper receiver (will update post with pics), mag loaders didn't finish loading mags until after I left at 7:45 and on and on. To put one (or two) more person in the mix of daily operations is much easier said than done.

So you guys caused that ammo shortage

No, not us. Our ammo orders are placed six months in advance so the factory already knows to allocate production for us. We have added to the orders each time but it's always six months out to protect us from some sort of ammo shortage.


I'm very interested to know if you have seen any noticeable difference with regard to wear (throat, rifling, etc.) between the PSA Nitride and CHF barrels?

So far, they are both have been problem free and accuracy (I know it's close distance) but neither types of barrels have been shot to the point of key-holing to this point. There have been a few bolts lost but nothing out of the ordinary.

As for the Colt's, still zero problems and yet to lose a bolt.

We have added some PSA 7.5" uppers with the Battle Arms Development PDW stocks and it's great runner. I'll be honest (and full disclosure) and thought there would be a problem with George's PDW stock and the short barrel. I've known George before B.A.D. became what it currently is. They were making tools for the M14/M1A and George would tell me about his AR15 products in development and I would swear to secrecy while the patent was in process. I purchased several of them for the range and have installed them on the shorties. I don't know why I didn't have much faith in the combo but it runs like a champ and plan on purchasing quite a few more.

but do you guys have any ACRs on the line?

We do have two select-fire ACR's on the line that have been running for well over a year now. The only thing that I can think of off the top of my head is a gas piston assembly that went flying down range and couldn't be recovered. It's an AR180-based design (G36, SA80, SAR80) that is simple and reliable. I don't know what type of issues others have had but it's been on par with all other weapons as far as function and reliability.

on your suppressed ar's are you seeing any high failure rate for specific parts over un-suppressed? Are your suppressed ar's using any kind of adjustable gas block or any other parts specific to the suppressed ar's?


If parts are breaking on a higher rate on suppressed rifles, my staff hasn't brought it up to me and I haven't noticed any trending parts when ordering replacement parts.

That being said, we are going to switch over to gas blocks made by MicroMOA that have been made specifically for suppressed rifles. We purchased some of their "Baby Govnah" for the 7" and 10" automatic AR's and they REALLY made a huge difference as for recoil, trigger slap and breaking full-auto disconnectors. We tried different things to slow it down and stop the trigger slap to include almost every heavy buffer out there (and some were EXPENSIVE and now sitting in a spare parts bin) and modifying the disconnector. Nothing worked so we purchased some of the Baby Govnah's and it was like a light switch went on. The staff couldn't believe how well it worked and it made shooting the PDW's fun again.

We are using suppressors more often and some suppressors are more "gassy" that others. One of those suppressors is the Brevis II by Delta P but it's a fair tried for the compact size. It fits on the 7" PDW and only adds about 3" total length so the customer still gets a small little package that's suppressed. It does kick a lot of gas back at the shooter so I am hoping that this gas block from MicroMOA works just as well as the other one did for slowing the gun down and helping with reducing gas coming back into the shooter's face.

Here's a terrible cell phone pic but you can see the size of the can on the 7.5" PDW and overall length with the Brevis II attached. I will say that our cans from AAC, YHM and Surefire don't kick as much gas back to the point but those cans are at least twice the length. We provide an experience so it's not the level of noise reduction but the point that it's "silenced" and reducing gas blown back in the face is part of the experience.

general comment
A quick update as it's been hectic here BFV getting ready for SHOT Show and everything that OSS Suppressors have going on. That being said I will provide some updates with wear patterns on upper receivers that I have never seen. The wear pattern in the in channel were the gas key rides is something we've never seen before and the failure that came along with it.

Here's a little gem from yesterday while on the range. We've had instances where several bolt lugs have sheared off but the weapon to function properly but this bad boy is stopped dead in it's tracks when it breaks like this. My RSO was walking from the range to the armory when I noticed that something looked wrong. I took a quick picture of it before the armorers could even take it part



What's the up keep like on your vintage firearms?

I will get the round count and manufacture of the bolt but it was definitely put on the line within the last 7-10 months. I remember that particular weapon going back on the line after we did a reset on several M4's. This particular M4 had a new barrel installed, new fire control group, buffer, spring, etc and for the most part, was the just the upper and lower that was recycled into service.

There must be a response or post I used with the word "reset" because I had a member message me about what that meant. I've been working in the garage with the mechanics on our HMMWV's and when they reset a vehicle (in the Army), they go through the whole vehicle to "reset" it back to new. We have been doing that with HMMWV's so to anybody else that wondered what I meant.. now you know.

As for vintage firearms, we are constantly looking for either parts guns or very good/excellent condition guns to keep the line filled. We have 5 or 6 (I can't remember) G43's which we pull parts from to keep at least two running at any time. It does get expensive when some of the guns are like the Japanese Type 96. The magazines alone are around $1,500 when you find them and parts kits are not easily found so I usually buy whatever I find.

If there's one thing to take away from this thread it's that we have worried entirely too much about breaking parts, barrel wear, ect. It also shows you don't have to spend a fortune to get quality parts (PSA).

That is the exact reason I started these topics. I hope that more people will realize that it doesn't take a $1,500 upper to go out and have fun with their AR15. I've given our experiences here on the range and nobody has paid me to promote their product or keep my mouth quiet. I've tried my hardest to not bad mouth any one company (not my objective) and let the guys that live check to check and hide a few dollars here and there to buy themselves a new "toy" that it's OK to make that purchase. You don't have to skip rent, credit card bills or enjoying a dinner out with the family to have a fun and reliable AR15.

I am now in a position that I can afford pretty much any weapon I want (I own a transferable M134 "minigun") and have no desire to purchase any high-dollar rifles that do that same thing (my opinion from my experiences) that lower-cost parts kits and rifles. My wife is on the fence about purchasing the Boba Fett gun from Battle Arms Development not because it's the most tactical or high-precision (it may be, I haven't kept up because so much new stuff is constantly being released) but because of the cool factor. Purchase what makes you happy and what you can afford but don't go into bankruptcy because the newest celebrity says it his/her go-to gun.


I would love to know how Clamp-on, and unpinned but loctited set screw gas blocks are holding up.

We have several of these in use by manufactures to include MicroMOA, YHM and Daniel Defense. All of the low profile gas blacks are completely mounted under the quad rails and not one of them has a dimpled barrel to ensure a positive lock. I was very surprised to find out that they don't loosen up after time. You can see carbon from gas blowing out all round the gas block (after thousands and thousands of rounds) that in my opinion, has caused the set screws to "freeze up" and stay in place. Carbon plays havoc on our suppressed weapons because it gets into all the threads and baffles so that's what leads me to believe it actually is helping us with keeping the gas block stay put.

Also, we do have one M4 with a YHM clamp-on folding front sight and gas block combo. We only used it for looks because all the metal portions were finished in FDE molyresin and the rest of the furniture was FDE. We wanted to use MOE handguards on it but it initially had a low profile gas and Korean quad rail mounted. Because I couldn't find our jig to properly drill the holes for a standard front sight base, we used a YHM clamp-on unit that had been sitting a parts box for at least 4-5 years. To my surprise, even the YHM clamp-on unit has not budged. This one really blew my mind because it's not dimpled and I thought for sure that forward pressure customers use when holding the weapon, it would surely slip forward slowly lose gas. Again, this weapon has plenty of carbon blowing out around the gas area and I will again assume it's carbon getting into the screws and around the clamping assembly and "freezing" up from all the carbon.

All of the low profile gas blocks have held up equally but I prefer the MicroMOA units that have the gas restriction plug that allows us to slow down (and not over gas) the short barrel M4's. I would like to compare two 10" M4's by putting both on the line at the same time and use a standard gas block and a MicroMOA gas block and see if the bolt lasts longer. You can definitely feel the difference when using the MicroMOA unit (Baby Govnah) but if it can extend the life of the bolt from shearing in addition to providing a "softer" customer experience, it's a win-win situation.

general comment
Quite a few of you have asked about how the Colt M4's are holding up since being put on the line (according to our records, this particular rifle went on the line 02 OCT 15). They have handled very well with no broken bolts, no broken hammer/trigger pins, no eroded gas tubes or any other failures up until this week. I do want to put it out there that the RSO's really like these weapons. They were all outfitted with the exact same Magpul furniture in two different colors to help in swapping out weekly. They all have MOE handguards with a forward pistol grip to help control heat issues. These weapons get hot after several magazines and when you have parties of anywhere from 2-20 people shooting, the weapons are intolerable for the person who's never handled a firearm to enjoy the experience.

That being said, the RSO's have used these weapons every day of the week and migrate towards the Colt's. They have been on the line since the first week of October and as stated above, they haven't suffered from any issues up until this point. The only reason that I am bringing this up is because I was in the armory yesterday morning and I noticed on of the Colt's disassembled on the bench. It was a FDE model and I knew that those models were on the line and shouldn't be down for cleaning. I asked my armorer Danny Boy what the issue was and he said that the ejector spring was in about 7-8 pieces and that it actually happened to be the second one of the morning. I thought that was pretty odd for two ejector springs to go out in the same day. My other armorer Sean stated that he had already replaced two others early this week for a total of four Colt M4's to suffer ejector spring failure in one week. Also, the ejector pin spring sheared upon failure and had to be punched out.

For this rifle to have four HARD months of use and only suffer from a ejector spring failure is really good in my opinion but the fact that four went down with the exact same issue is what's strange. Also, we never saw the usual slow down during the November through February season and these weapons have continued to see high round counts. Without looking at numbers of rounds consumed for the time period it's fair to see these rifles have no less than 25,000-30,000 rounds through them.

Today is my day off but I will send a message to the armorers to go ahead replace all the ejector springs in the Colt M4's as preventive maintenance and to avoid malfunctions with customers on the range.

25-30K on the original bolts?

Yes sir. Not one bolt failure on the Colt's to date.

general comment

I've previously stated that we've never lost a AR15 receiver due to wear like we have with AK's. Well, with over three years of constant use that is no longer the truth. It's very clear how deep the bolt carrier key has worn into the upper receiver over the years. The armorers made notes in their records about the wear pattern but didn't see a need to replace the receiver as it continued to function and barrels had been swapped (making sure the headspace was kept in spec) with no issue of reliability.

The weapon came off the line because the RSO stated that the bolt wouldn't go into battery. Initially they assumed there must have been a sheared key or case inside the barrel extension area that wouldn't allow the bolt to close. After further inspection, they noticed that the bolt was hitting the face of the barrel extension. They stripped the weapon down and that's when they discovered that there had been so much wear that the bolt carrier was being pushed upward and causing the misalignment. To go back and do the math on the round count would take a VERY long time and even then it would only be good estimate. What I do know is that this particular rifle was one of mine before we opened Battlefield Vegas and has been on the line since day one. It's had two barrel swaps, several bolt's and numerous springs, extractors, etc but it was a great running gun and that's why they kept it on the line. I don't remember who I purchased this receiver from but it's fair to say that it wasn't a high-dollar upper by any means. This was a personal weapon that we used for demo's and I couldn't afford a nice rifle to let LE use and abuse so more than likely it was from JT Distributing or DS Arms.

We had distributor accounts set up with both of them prior to opening Battlefield and used quite a bit of their products. Either way, it's a standard forged upper receiver that has lasted untold thousands of rounds before failing. I don't want people to come out and say that I am stretching the truth but I will throw some numbers out there and let you do the math. Each M4 on the line will get a minimum of 20 magazines run through it each day and each magazine has 25 rounds. Just for fun, let's just say that it was on the line only 3 out of the 7 days of week for 3 years and 3 months. Now, that is a very conservative number because there are SO many times that we go through 10,000+ rounds of .223 on a Saturday in the last three years.

Tremendous, TaylorWSO!!

Thanks for compiling that!!

I concur!  Thank you for putting that together.

of all the things to do in vegas,  this about the only thing im interested in

+1 it saved me a ton of time looking for what I was looking for. Thx

If your married it's about the ONLY thing to do that won't cause a divorce

Unless you sit on the M134 all day and run over a few dozen cars with a tank

So when are you planning the trip? I'll bring the beer and BBQ.

Use this groupon:

https://www.groupon.com/deals/battlefield-vegas

Hi Ron,

You've mentioned earlier that you guys have had a good experience with SIG rifles & carbines. I wonder if the ones that you have are original Swiss firearms (SG 550/551/552/553), or made in US by SIG USA (556/556xi/551A1)?

Just to add to the info for those pushing the use of the Knights upper:
the KAC bolt requires the use of a Knights barrel extension, only available on a Knights barrel, only available on a Knights complete upper.

Awesome Info!!!! I've been wondering this for a long time Do melanite barrels actually last longer than chromed end barrels? Also are the scar barrels lasting the 26,000 RDS FN claims? Thanks!

I've learned a lot, and will save a lot of money. Thank you for finding the time to take on these threads and share your experiences!

Probably the best read I have seen here.
Thank you for taking the time to do this and for also taking care of fellow service members.

Shit, now you have me thinking about purchasing a Colt M4LE.

ETA:  Does Colt still incorporate the large fire control pins in their rifles?

They haven't done that in many years.

Ron,

I know you have certain bolt carrier groups you stick to now. My question is have you used Toolcraft's bcgs? What, if you remember, were the results with them. I'm figuring they're descent bcgs since toolcraft offers a lifetime guarantee on them and they got a contract to sell the military replacement bcgs. Thanks.

We have both Swiss and US made variants in use. We have lost op rod springs (both US and Swiss) and a Swiss hammer spring. It took one of the armorers about an hour and half to put the Swiss full-auto lower back together. It's built like a...... Swiss watch

V/R
Ron

Hi, first of all thank you for the great information.  My question is regarding the bolts you use: have you been able to continue to use them if there appears to be damage (cracks, lugs shearing off)?  What is the usual standard operating procedure when you find such issues during cleaning, inspection etc?

Thanks, Ron!

Another question along the same lines... do you have any full auto Mini-14s on the range (I think it was called AC-556 or something like that)? And if you do, how do they fare in terms of breakdowns and required maintenance schedule?

Would be interesting to see how an SR-15 performs. Ballistic Radio got their to 20,000 rounds and it was still good to go.

Yeah, do you ever get customers wanting the "A-Team" gun?

As others have said, this is a great thread.  Invaluable info.  Thanks much for posting.  I hope to come out and visit next time I am in Las Vegas.

 
Interesting.




I have a SIG 556 SBR that's been great, all be it not shot anywhere near as much as your guns.




They seem to get a bad rap, largely based on cosmetic complaints compared to the Swiss versions.




In respect to longevity between issues, how would you compare them to AR's and AK's?


 

Why haven't the questions and answers here been made into a sticky?

Maybe I missed it but I'm curious if you guys have had an itch to run any of the aftermarket triggers (full/semi). If so how are they holding up.

I would think there wouldn't be much of an issue, I'd just like to here from a good "beta testing ground" that you guys deliver.

There's been a wealth of knowledge brought about by folks having fun and working at your facility. Keep the updates coming.

Wait... Your shop is the same place that old Dan Bilzerian posts on his IG?

And thanks for the write up!

Yep... so many people come in and ask us "Where is Dan's vault" or make some statements about Dan owning the range.

V/R
Ron

Im gonna be in vegas in 2 weeks. Cant wait to hit your range. Better entertainment return on my money than slots. :)

This is very true.

Planning on coming down and seeing you, Ron.  In May.  Keep that StG 44 cleaned and oiled!!  

I know you're a busy man, but did you ever start that battle rifle thread? Very interested in that. Appreciate all of your info!

Why is this thread not permanently tacked?

I suppose I am...never the less, it certainly would seem to merit a tack.....

I saw the Battlefield Vegas vehicle wrap on one of the cabs while I was there last week.  I tried to make time and get by there.  Next time!  Definitely throwing some money your way when we head back this year, and I am bringing a group

Bumped, because this is one of the most awesomest threads on Arfcom, and no one has replied for a few days. Should be pinned!

How does the Melonite barrels hold up vs Chrome lined?

Just got back from Battlefield. Must say I was super impressed with the whole staff and I had a blast shooting. They even took the time to bring me back to vault and handle and photo the collection. Talked a lot to the staff about their experience with different guns and what issues hey have/have had. Very informative.

Bump for this amazing thread.

The melonite and nitrided barrels have been holding up just as well as the chrome-line barrels up to this point. Some of the melonite and nitrided barrels have tens of thousands of rounds through them with no issues.

V/R
Ron