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Posted: 3/15/2022 9:39:28 PM EDT
[#1]
11.5 5.56 w aimpoint T2 and light. Preferably suppressed.
As for keeping your kid safe across the house, harden his windows. Reinforce with safety film and thorn bush outside if possible. |
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Posted: 3/15/2022 10:02:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Short barreled suppressed with a red dot and light. That's pretty much it. Prefer 5.56mm caliber with fragmenting rounds. Yeah 11.5" barrel is a good choice.
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Posted: 3/15/2022 10:02:51 PM EDT
[#3]
A vote for the Scorpion.
I have one. I like it. However, I am sure many will have convincing arguments against it. It it not heavy, put a red dot and a light on it. Yeah, it is a 9mm, but you can get a 30 round magazine, and it is accurate. The trigger on mine is fairly light and I can fire 10+ rounds in a tight group 25 yards out as fast as I can pull the trigger. It is not that loud indoors even without a suppressor Another consideration, you will not be home all the time. It is something your wife can comfortably shoot and feel confident in if an emergency arises. 
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Posted: 3/16/2022 8:44:40 AM EDT
[#4]
300blk 7.5" to 10.5" (most common is in the 8"-9" range)
or 11.5 or 12.5" 5.56 |
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Posted: 3/16/2022 9:02:13 AM EDT
[#5]
Whatever you decide on, factor in the cost to buy a suppressor.
Guns are loud, even louder indoors. It wont make a centerfire rifle hearing safe, but it sure will take the edge off. |
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Posted: 3/16/2022 9:12:54 AM EDT
[#6]
I just don’t think I can justify the cost of a suppressor also. That’s $700-$1000 after tax stamp on top of a respectable rifle, optic, and light setup. I just don’t have those kind of funds right now.
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Posted: 3/16/2022 9:25:16 AM EDT
[#7]
Short suppressed 300blk (110g) w aimpoint is the best dedicated hd configuration.
Other calibers, lengths, and optics are great for other roles or mixed purpose but for dedicated hd that's about as good as it gets imo.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/16/2022 2:02:12 PM EDT
[#8]
If a suppressor is not in your current budget then you have to get subsonic. You want very little smoke and almost no flash while using indoors and in that HD setting you will probably not have time to don hearing protection. The Federal 150 grain HST micro is a perfect indoor HD round. Even fired through a 16” 9mm carbine the round will stay subsonic and have very little flash or smoke.
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Posted: 3/16/2022 3:23:53 PM EDT
[#9]
I'd love the terminal ballistics of 5.56x45 indoors, but I don't want the concussion. I'm going 147 grn subsonic 9x19mm for the house.
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Posted: 3/16/2022 9:42:11 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just don’t think I can justify the cost of a suppressor also. That’s $700-$1000 after tax stamp on top of a respectable rifle, optic, and light setup. I just don’t have those kind of funds right now. Have you been around a short barreled 5.56 in even a partially enclosed space? You should test out a 10.3, if not. It is...well...eye opening 
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Posted: 3/17/2022 6:33:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just don’t think I can justify the cost of a suppressor also. That’s $700-$1000 after tax stamp on top of a respectable rifle, optic, and light setup. I just don’t have those kind of funds right now. Then buy a suppressor and red dot, and use one of your rifles that you already have. Buy a shorter upper when you do have the funds, and skip the extra lower. |
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Posted: 3/17/2022 6:48:01 PM EDT
[#12]
I would not go 9mm in a rifle, but that’s just me.
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Posted: 3/17/2022 7:12:15 PM EDT
[#13]
If you have all the stuff to reload 300blk, and you are looking for a HD style weapon, your choice is already made IMO. The biggest knock on 300blk is the cost of ammo.
You don't need a can right now. There is this horrible myth going around were people say things like "300blk is only good suppressed/suppressed with subs". I don't know why they say that. It works amazingly well shooting supers unsuppressed. Ask those same folks what caliber works better out of barrels in single digit inches and you get crickets.....especially in the AR platform. |
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Posted: 3/17/2022 8:43:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you have all the stuff to reload 300blk, and you are looking for a HD style weapon, your choice is already made IMO. The biggest knock on 300blk is the cost of ammo. You don't need a can right now. There is this horrible myth going around were people say things like "300blk is only good suppressed/suppressed with subs". I don't know why they say that. It works amazingly well shooting supers unsuppressed. Ask those same folks what caliber works better out of barrels in single digit inches and you get crickets.....especially in the AR platform. Any pistol caliber will work well out of short bbls. |
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Posted: 3/17/2022 8:53:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any pistol caliber will work well out of short bbls. .300blk isn't really a true pistol caliber. Only thing that comes close is 7.62x39, but that does not work so well out of AR platforms, is a bit more blasty, and bullet selection limited. 10mm pretty good, but is also finnicky in the AR platform. |
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Posted: 3/17/2022 8:58:58 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .300blk isn't really a true pistol caliber. Only thing that comes close is 7.62x39, but that does not work so well out of AR platforms, is a bit more blasty, and bullet selection limited. 10mm pretty good, but is also finnicky in the AR platform. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Any pistol caliber will work well out of short bbls. .300blk isn't really a true pistol caliber. Only thing that comes close is 7.62x39, but that does not work so well out of AR platforms, is a bit more blasty, and bullet selection limited. 10mm pretty good, but is also finnicky in the AR platform. There's subsonic 7.62x39mm around. If you're running subsonic, cast your own. |
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Posted: 3/17/2022 9:18:26 PM EDT
[#17]
There is significant difference between pistol & rifle rounds.
While a 5.56 in 10.5 - 11.5 will be LOUD inside, it will be effective. You aren't talking about shooting boxes & boxes of ammo inside. But if I am shooting my Home Defense Gun, it is in protection of my life, wife or Kids. I want THE most effective round possible. If noise is really an "issue", there are amplified hearing protection that will boost your hearing while also protecting your hearing. Something to consider. Bigger_Hammer 
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Posted: 3/17/2022 9:22:06 PM EDT
[#18]
Bedroom 11.5 RDS light K can.
Man cave 12.5 1.25-4 light K can. |
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Posted: 3/17/2022 9:53:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is significant difference between pistol & rifle rounds. While a 5.56 in 10.5 - 11.5 will be LOUD inside, it will be effective. You aren't talking about shooting boxes & boxes of ammo inside. But if I am shooting my Home Defense Gun, it is in protection of my life, wife or Kids. I want THE most effective round possible. If noise is really an "issue", there are amplified hearing protection that will boost your hearing while also protecting your hearing. Something to consider. Bigger_Hammer I'm thinking 38 rounds of 147 grn subsonic should be good. |
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Posted: 3/17/2022 10:05:09 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's subsonic 7.62x39mm around. If you're running subsonic, cast your own. OP currently has two 16" 5.56 rifles, and is set up to reload .300blk. Any rifle caliber outside of 5.56 or .300blk makes no sense. No can? I would look at 12.5" 5.56 or 10.3"/5" .300blk upper. Different 5.56 mags for .300blk (and mag bands), and if he hates .300blk, he would only be out a barrel, a muzzle device, and a pistol length gas tube. No need for different mags or bolts or parts in different calibers. -------- .300blk, no suppressors....all run KAK micro flash cans. Back-pack (7.5" with a folder) HD (9") SHTF (10.5") The 9" HD and a 10.5" SHTF are set up almost the same. The only differences being that tape switch on the HD can't sit at 12:000 due to the way the Hornady AR wall safe closes (I've already broken one tape switch). The other is because my SHTF specifically needed a rail that was not longer than the barrel (they are the same) for SHTF reasons. I don't really need the 3x on the HD version, but it is quick release and I was playing the Biden Brace Ban/AFT demerit point game.  |
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Posted: 3/20/2022 5:49:28 PM EDT
[#21]
I know OP said rifle but my 12 ga Wingmaster with ghost ring sights and red laser/white light is the do all for interior home defense.
Even his kid would score positive hits. Just sayin. |
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Posted: 3/20/2022 8:26:24 PM EDT
[#22]
What I don't have right now to load 300BLK is small rifle primers. Everything else I already have on-hand to load 300BLK.
A 10mm Kriss Vector would be pretty cool too. I also load for 10mm. 
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Posted: 3/20/2022 11:26:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know OP said rifle but my 12 ga Wingmaster with ghost ring sights and red laser/white light is the do all for interior home defense. Even his kid would score positive hits. Just sayin. You should start a thread in General Discussions about that. |
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Posted: 4/1/2022 5:26:13 PM EDT
[#24]
You don't need to buy everything today. Work your way through the parts you need. I have been at this for about 15 years..it takes time if you're not a baller from GD. That said I think 300 blk or 556 will work just fine for most of your needs. Preferably a shorter barrel, a suppressor and a light to round out the build. I have an 8 inch 300 blk next to the bed. It does alot of things better than a 556 in really short configurations.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 4/4/2022 12:55:06 AM EDT
[#25]
Suppressors need not be expensive.
Quietbore, if they're still operating with all the form 1 bullshit going on, costs 350 for a 5.56, and they run sales all the time. Worth contacting them (basically part of Creative Arms) to see what they can do for you. Great bunch of guys, I've found. But most people seem to have nailed it. Short barrel 5.56, red dot, light. The 5.56 m193 round (NOT GREEN TIP) doesn't over penetrate (but everything penetrates drywall, so aim true and know what's behind), it does the maximum damage you can ask for without said over penetration, easily comes in a nice capacity (30-40 rds), and is very easily controlled. It really is the best way to go. You might want to look into frangible ammo as well, but I can't claim enough knowledge on it to say. But it should be the exception to the drywall-is-paper-mache-to-bullets rule. And with any gun indoors, suppressors REALLY make a difference. You can find them fairly inexpensive, even with the unconstitutional tax stamp, if you look around. |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 11:29:15 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then buy a suppressor and red dot, and use one of your rifles that you already have. Buy a shorter upper when you do have the funds, and skip the extra lower. This is the answer |
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Posted: 4/12/2022 5:04:25 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 4/12/2022 10:38:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Shooting a non-suppressed short barreled rifle indoors is straight up not a good time for the ear drums. Go to an indoor range and shoot one, see what you think for yourself.
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Posted: 4/13/2022 9:46:25 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I just don’t think I can justify the cost of a suppressor also. That’s $700-$1000 after tax stamp on top of a respectable rifle, optic, and light setup. I just don’t have those kind of funds right now. Buy a red dot for your backup rifle and buy a suppressor. Use that for now. And you will have a suppressor to share between both rifles. Then build a shorter gun later. |
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Posted: 4/15/2022 9:05:34 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote History )I really think you should save up for a suppressor though, OP. |
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Posted: 4/17/2022 3:12:23 PM EDT
[#31]
It depends to some extent where you live (suppressor friendly or not) and your budget. I use a suppressed Q Honey Badger but it’s pricey. My preferred gun is an AR15 in .300 Blackout, but some people prefer 5.56 for a variety of reasons. I haven’t tested this, but I would think that a short .300 Blackout with subsonic rounds unsuppressed would be quieter than a 5.56 unsuppressed, in case you’re in a non-NFA friendly area. Short barrels make for easier movement in tight quarters, so an SBR if in a NFA friendly area, or an AR pistol if not.
Just my thoughts on it. |
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Posted: 4/17/2022 9:47:19 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It depends to some extent where you live (suppressor friendly or not) and your budget. I use a suppressed Q Honey Badger but it’s pricey. My preferred gun is an AR15 in .300 Blackout, but some people prefer 5.56 for a variety of reasons. I haven’t tested this, but I would think that a short .300 Blackout with subsonic rounds unsuppressed would be quieter than a 5.56 unsuppressed, in case you’re in a non-NFA friendly area. Short barrels make for easier movement in tight quarters, so an SBR if in a NFA friendly area, or an AR pistol if not. Just my thoughts on it. I definitely understand. But being a civilian, I'm not entirely sure that easier movement in tight quarters is something that should be a priority for me. I don't plan on doing any room clearing or house clearing by myself considering I have zero training in that. |
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Posted: 4/24/2022 3:30:05 PM EDT
[#33]
a PCC is never going to be as effective as a rifle. the only reason to get one of those is for portability or you already have a mountain of 9mm to use.
a short barrel rifle has several issues. again, the only reason to get one of these is for portability. - goddamn LOUD - problems with reliability - finicky with ammo - compromised terminal effects (slower bullet velocity) - the gas port erodes and after a while becomes grossly overgassed. .300 BLK is optimized for subsonic use. with that ammo you might as well be using a 9mm PCC. the supersonic ammo is much better for defensive use. but there are better cartridges, and on top of that 5.56 out of a 16" or 20" bbl is quite sufficient and no hassles with ammo selection. if you want something like supersonic .300BLK you should use .300 Hamm'r it's far superior. or 7.62x39 but a converted AR sucks for that, get a KS-47 which is purpose built for 7.62x39 and won't break. the best answer is to get a 16" AR with a red dot. personally I would prefer a 20". |
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Posted: 4/25/2022 12:04:06 AM EDT
[#34]
guuuuys...
https://www.creativearms.com/product/qb-series-556-suppressor/ that's $350. they run 30% off sales periodically. i got both mine 30% off. get on their emailer and/or follow their facebook page. that's under 500 even after the bullshit tax stamp! put that on a shorty (it's rated for it) and have a nice quiet (enough) maneuverable 5.56 for home defense! or... https://www.quietbore.com/product/9mm-form1-kit/ second choice, it's under 400 even after bullshit tax stamp. do the same with a 5" ar-9 (even cheaper QB suppressor then) and run subs, and they won't even hear you shooting them! shoot suppressed indoors. seriously. |
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Posted: 4/27/2022 11:32:43 AM EDT
[#35]
Hey OP didn’t you say in your other thread that you had a SBR? Just use that as your home defense gun. Buy a suppressor with the money you were going to spend on this gun and viola. Best HD gun setup done.
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Posted: 5/2/2022 8:47:15 PM EDT
[#36]
11.5" with an Aimpoint, suppressor, WML, and sling.
Bonuses are a nicer trigger like a G SSA. |
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Posted: 6/1/2022 5:32:05 PM EDT
[#37]
12.5 (preferred) or 11.5 with a light for HD. 12.5 gives you more rail space, more velocity, and more comfort as you don’t feel as “scrunched up” especially if you are limiting yourself to a 13.5” (or whatever the ATF says you need) buffer tube. I’ve shot a whole lot of short guns inside a confined space unsuppressed and I’ve learned a few things: 1) flash hiders > brakes. Brakes let off much more concussion which can impact your senses depending how close you are to a wall and are much more unpleasant for any “friendlies” that might be near you, and 2) generally speaking, people over-state how bright the muzzle flash is. While certainly noticeable, it’s not blinding like some would lead you to believe, not to mention the fact that you should have just shined a light on your target before you shot, 3) the noise is not as big of a deal as the internet would lead you to believe. Obviously, it’s loud, but it’s not deafening and you’re not really going to notice it until after the fact. When that stress is running through your body, you’d be surprised at how little you pay attention to sound. The ringing in your ears will come, but it’s not instantaneous, and 4) each person responds differently to sound and the concussive effects of the round. I know some people who have shot at/been shot at in tight quarters and they experienced “auditory exclusion” and some didn’t. Some people perceived muzzle blasts to be massive and some didn’t.
Regardless, like many have mentioned, a 12.5/11.5 w/ a T2 on a 1.93 or, if you’re on a budget, a holosun, with a light from one of the major light makers, a good sling, and you’ll be good. As an aside, be sure to consider high quality 556 ammo that is made for the HD/DUTY situation. |
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Posted: 6/12/2022 8:26:51 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should start a thread in General Discussions about that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I know OP said rifle but my 12 ga Wingmaster with ghost ring sights and red laser/white light is the do all for interior home defense. Even his kid would score positive hits. Just sayin. You should start a thread in General Discussions about that. I realize that is Stockdoc's first post, and that there are better options being discussed for HD. But, with an extended tube magazine full of #1 Federal Flite Control buckshot, it is a formidable HD alternative, not to be dismissed to GD. In typical Arfcom fashion, I have multiple HD options: I have a 9mm Browning HP in my nightstand with 147gr subsonic for immediate use. In an adjoining closet safe space are both my HD 16" carbine with Speer 62 gr Gold Dot and a 21" barrel 12 gauge extended mag semi-auto tactical shotgun with #1 Flite Control. Both are equipped with duty grade mini-reflex red dots. I don't intend to pursue an intruder(s) but will meet the attack with the handgun until I can get my wife and me to the safe place and take our stand. At that point concern about hearing loss are very secondary. If I recall (correct me if mistaken) despite all the carbines and handguns carried by LE, the Uvalde shooter was taken out by a shotgun. |
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Posted: 6/13/2022 1:32:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I realize that is Stockdoc's first post, and that there are better options being discussed for HD. But, with an extended tube magazine full of #1 Federal Flite Control buckshot, it is a formidable HD alternative, not to be dismissed to GD. In typical Arfcom fashion, I have multiple HD options: I have a 9mm Browning HP in my nightstand with 147gr subsonic for immediate use. In an adjoining closet safe space are both my HD 16" carbine with Speer 62 gr Gold Dot and a 21" barrel 12 gauge extended mag semi-auto tactical shotgun with #1 Flite Control. Both are equipped with duty grade mini-reflex red dots. I don't intend to pursue an intruder(s) but will meet the attack with the handgun until I can get my wife and me to the safe place and take our stand. At that point concern about hearing loss are very secondary. If I recall (correct me if mistaken) despite all the carbines and handguns carried by LE, the Uvalde shooter was taken out by a shotgun. But a shotgun isn't the new short-barreled pistol/SBR hotness that all my friends have... So I won't be in the cool crowd. /[Sarcasm] For the OP, you have 2 perfectly serviceable HD rifles with optics. What more do you need? Or is it a want? If it's a want, go for it do what you want. A 16" rifle with an LPVO is just a useful for HD as any other suggestion made on this thread. So I'm in the crowd of use what you got and spend the money on ammo, training, or a suppressor instead of another gun. BUT, if you're looking for a reason so you can buy a new toy..... I mean, obviously, buy a new toy. LOL. |
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Posted: 7/1/2022 3:23:02 PM EDT
[#40]
I'm building a new AR pistol specifically for Home Defense, so this discussion is very timely.
I originally built both a 5.5? 9mm suppressed AR9 and a 7.5? .300 Blackout AR suppressed sub gun for my Home Defense purpose, but after quite a bit of research I have found that these are both really bad for over-penetration - with 300 subs being the worst. 300 subs will go through all your walls and several of your neighbor’s walls. What I have found is that a 223/556 defensive round suppressed that is super light and super fast is about as good a close quarter (in house) combat round as you’ll find. Contrary to popular belief, these rounds do get stopped by walls after knocking down bad guys. One of the worst things that can happen is over penetration inside my house. Bullets can hit my family and neighbors after penetrating bad guys. Pistol rounds and 300 blackout subsonic loads are some of the worst offenders. They tend to go through bad guys then through all the walls in your house and then through the walls of your neighbor’s house with little expansion. Watch the tests performed on PewPew Tactical. A super light defensive 223 will penetrate a bad guy with a ton of expansion and tumbling then get stopped by a single sheet of drywall. This seems to be the way to defend your home and worry less about hurting your family and neighbors. I am in the process of building a 7.5” piston driven 223 Wylde AR pistol that will have a suppressor permanently installed for this very purpose - when things go bump in the night. It will be light, short and maneuverable with a 30 round magazine. I will not be outgunned by bad guys. Ammo-- I’ve considered the frangibles (also a good solution), but I decided on the Barnes Vor-TX 55 Grain TSX instead. I’ve read excellent reviews on these for Home Defense with over penetration being the #1 concern. |
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Posted: 7/1/2022 5:38:41 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm building a new AR pistol specifically for Home Defense, so this discussion is very timely. I originally built both a 5.5? 9mm suppressed AR9 and a 7.5? .300 Blackout AR suppressed sub gun for my Home Defense purpose, but after quite a bit of research I have found that these are both really bad for over-penetration - with 300 subs being the worst. 300 subs will go through all your walls and several of your neighbor’s walls. What I have found is that a 223/556 defensive round suppressed that is super light and super fast is about as good a close quarter (in house) combat round as you’ll find. Contrary to popular belief, these rounds do get stopped by walls after knocking down bad guys. One of the worst things that can happen is over penetration inside my house. Bullets can hit my family and neighbors after penetrating bad guys. Pistol rounds and 300 blackout subsonic loads are some of the worst offenders. They tend to go through bad guys then through all the walls in your house and then through the walls of your neighbor’s house with little expansion. Watch the tests performed on PewPew Tactical. A super light defensive 223 will penetrate a bad guy with a ton of expansion and tumbling then get stopped by a single sheet of drywall. This seems to be the way to defend your home and worry less about hurting your family and neighbors. I am in the process of building a 7.5” piston driven 223 Wylde AR pistol that will have a suppressor permanently installed for this very purpose - when things go bump in the night. It will be light, short and maneuverable with a 30 round magazine. I will not be outgunned by bad guys. Ammo-- I’ve considered the frangibles (also a good solution), but I decided on the Barnes Vor-TX 55 Grain TSX instead. I’ve read excellent reviews on these for Home Defense with over penetration being the #1 concern. Why not just change .300blk ammo? Have you tried expanding subs? Or better yet, one the favorites around here are the 110gr Vmax or 110gr Varminator. Those are technically .308 varmint rounds, but being fired at .300blk speed. They still break apart/fragment. That is what I use for my HD round. A 7.5" piston driven 5.56 with a permanently attached suppressor sounds like a disaster in the making, and I think you are putting too much stock into bullets going clean through bad guys and then through several walls and into your neighbors house. |
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Posted: 7/6/2022 1:56:40 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not just change .300blk ammo? Have you tried expanding subs? Or better yet, one the favorites around here are the 110gr Vmax or 110gr Varminator. Those are technically .308 varmint rounds, but being fired at .300blk speed. They still break apart/fragment. That is what I use for my HD round. A 7.5" piston driven 5.56 with a permanently attached suppressor sounds like a disaster in the making, and I think you are putting too much stock into bullets going clean through bad guys and then through several walls and into your neighbors house. Ok, I'm really glad I came here. That was my toss-up in the research I was doing. I have the Barnes Vor-TX 110 Grain that was my plan for the .300 Blackout HD system, and the specs looked similar to the Vmax and Varminator. My can is actually a 30 Cal can anyway. It was my understanding that the 223 still went through fewer walls than the 300blk supers, and that's why I was going to go 223 instead of 300blk. My 300blk system is a DI with a 7.5" barrel with 1/8 twist (I wanted it to be geared more for the supers). It sounds like a I need to rethink this and continue the research. I'm not tied to any caliber, and my main AR platform that I shoot all the time is actually the AR47. I've built AR9s, AR10's (not using .308 for HD), 223 Wylde, 300blk, and AR47s, and now that I have them all working without fail with any ammo, I wanted to set one up for Home Defense. I wanted this HD gun to have the least amount of wall penetration but never to be outgunned. First thought was the AR9, because it's so light and quiet with 147 grain, but research seemed to indicate that the best HD is with a rifle round (long sigh). So, back to the research and thanks for the 300blk ammo insight. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:58:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I'm really glad I came here. That was my toss-up in the research I was doing. I have the Barnes Vor-TX 110 Grain that was my plan for the .300 Blackout HD system, and the specs looked similar to the Vmax and Varminator. My can is actually a 30 Cal can anyway. It was my understanding that the 223 still went through fewer walls than the 300blk supers, and that's why I was going to go 223 instead of 300blk. My 300blk system is a DI with a 7.5" barrel with 1/8 twist (I wanted it to be geared more for the supers). It sounds like a I need to rethink this and continue the research. I'm not tied to any caliber, and my main AR platform that I shoot all the time is actually the AR47. I've built AR9s, AR10's (not using .308 for HD), 223 Wylde, 300blk, and AR47s, and now that I have them all working without fail with any ammo, I wanted to set one up for Home Defense. I wanted this HD gun to have the least amount of wall penetration but never to be outgunned. First thought was the AR9, because it's so light and quiet with 147 grain, but research seemed to indicate that the best HD is with a rifle round (long sigh). So, back to the research and thanks for the 300blk ammo insight. If that is 110 tac-tx, that is one of the best expanding rounds available, but it is a barrier blind round and punches through stuff. The 110 V rounds will fragment and break up more. Your AR47 is probably a lot cheaper to shoot, but I don’t know what are good fragmenting rounds in that caliber. But remember, all bullets are going to go through walls on a miss, even 5.56. Some will just go through more walls with larger intact pieces. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 2:30:23 AM EDT
[#44]
Given your preferences I'd consider a CMMG Banshee in 9mm with subsonic rounds. It's a great PCC and with subs shouldn't be too rough even without a can.
The 10mm Vector you mentioned is a blast. Best caliber IMO for that platform, but not exactly going to be fun to shoot indoors, and probably not going to be as accurate with the height over bore. Personally, I prefer .300 subs with a can and you might consider just getting a .300 upper for your backup rifle and putting the difference into a suppressor. You can get a serviceable upper for $350ish and the CGS Mod9 sk for under $400 so call it $1k all in with transfer and stamp. While 5.56 is actually pretty good with respect to overpenetration (rounds tend to tumble after hitting any barriers), shooting a short one indoors is basically a flashbang. Even suppressed it wouldn't be my first choice. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 12:57:15 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:03:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Short suppressed 300blk (110g) w aimpoint is the best dedicated hd configuration. Other calibers, lengths, and optics are great for other roles or mixed purpose but for dedicated hd that's about as good as it gets imo. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/435611/20210129_175232_jpg-2315388.JPG Daggett, I'm very interested in what 300BLK ammo you are using for HD. Can you tell me how is it with wall penetration? I am tossing around a short 223 Wylde vs a short 300blk pistol (both with dedicated suppressors). I was planning on using Barnes VorTX ammo with either one. 55 grain for the 223 and 110 grain for the 300blk. The Suppressor for the 300blk is much lighter and has been used primarily for a PCC AR9, but the 1st 3 baffles are steel, so it's fine for 300blk supers on a limited basis. Bottom line which caliber will have more wall penetration on both missed shots and then exit wounds? The .300blk subs are the worst wall penetration offenders, but I haven't seen enough data on the supers in 110 grain. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:04:03 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:13:12 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If that is 110 tac-tx, that is one of the best expanding rounds available, but it is a barrier blind round and punches through stuff. The 110 V rounds will fragment and break up more. Your AR47 is probably a lot cheaper to shoot, but I don’t know what are good fragmenting rounds in that caliber. But remember, all bullets are going to go through walls on a miss, even 5.56. Some will just go through more walls with larger intact pieces. Thank you. Yes, that's the Barnes 110 Tac-tx, so I'll look at the 110 V rounds instead for HD. I like the fragments breaking up more idea. There just aren't enough ammo choices on the AR47, so I wouldn't use that for HD. The main Q is deciding between the 300blk supers suppressed or the 223 Barnes 55 grain VorTx suppressed. Which one will fragment more on a miss when it hits barriers, the 223 or 300blk? This is the key question for my home defense gun. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 1:37:59 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: a PCC is never going to be as effective as a rifle. the only reason to get one of those is for portability or you already have a mountain of 9mm to use. a short barrel rifle has several issues. again, the only reason to get one of these is for portability. - goddamn LOUD - problems with reliability - finicky with ammo - compromised terminal effects (slower bullet velocity) - the gas port erodes and after a while becomes grossly overgassed. .300 BLK is optimized for subsonic use. with that ammo you might as well be using a 9mm PCC. the supersonic ammo is much better for defensive use. but there are better cartridges, and on top of that 5.56 out of a 16" or 20" bbl is quite sufficient and no hassles with ammo selection. if you want something like supersonic .300BLK you should use .300 Hamm'r it's far superior. or 7.62x39 but a converted AR sucks for that, get a KS-47 which is purpose built for 7.62x39 and won't break. the best answer is to get a 16" AR with a red dot. personally I would prefer a 20". This guy nails it. 300BO subsonic is basically 45ACP ballistics. Might as well get a PCC at that point. There are no free lunches in ballistics. |
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Posted: 7/7/2022 2:53:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Daggett, I'm very interested in what 300BLK ammo you are using for HD. Can you tell me how is it with wall penetration? I am tossing around a short 223 Wylde vs a short 300blk pistol (both with dedicated suppressors). I was planning on using Barnes VorTX ammo with either one. 55 grain for the 223 and 110 grain for the 300blk. The Suppressor for the 300blk is much lighter and has been used primarily for a PCC AR9, but the 1st 3 baffles are steel, so it's fine for 300blk supers on a limited basis. Bottom line which caliber will have more wall penetration on both missed shots and then exit wounds? The .300blk subs are the worst wall penetration offenders, but I haven't seen enough data on the supers in 110 grain. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Short suppressed 300blk (110g) w aimpoint is the best dedicated hd configuration. Other calibers, lengths, and optics are great for other roles or mixed purpose but for dedicated hd that's about as good as it gets imo. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/435611/20210129_175232_jpg-2315388.JPG Daggett, I'm very interested in what 300BLK ammo you are using for HD. Can you tell me how is it with wall penetration? I am tossing around a short 223 Wylde vs a short 300blk pistol (both with dedicated suppressors). I was planning on using Barnes VorTX ammo with either one. 55 grain for the 223 and 110 grain for the 300blk. The Suppressor for the 300blk is much lighter and has been used primarily for a PCC AR9, but the 1st 3 baffles are steel, so it's fine for 300blk supers on a limited basis. Bottom line which caliber will have more wall penetration on both missed shots and then exit wounds? The .300blk subs are the worst wall penetration offenders, but I haven't seen enough data on the supers in 110 grain. I haven't shot it in my house yet so I don't know how it is with wall penetration. Either way I assume anything with the ballistics to kill a human will also penetrate drywall pretty effectively. Some stuff penetrates more than other stuff, but I'm setting the gun up for maximum effect on the bad guy, not based on what behaves best with drywall. Overpenetration is one factor to consider but you might be getting analysis paralysis. It probably won't matter in practical application whether you use 110 tx or v or 556 or subs. Any real ballistic difference are marginal in the scenarios you're likely to encounter. Not that there AREN'T differences, just that the actual differences will very likely not impact the outcome of the situation. Probably is more helpful to your over penetration problem to know what's beyond your target and avoid taking the shot if it's lined up with someone's bed in the other room. |
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