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Posted: 2/11/2018 10:15:25 AM EDT
I'm sorry to appear lazy, but there is SO much information out there it's a little hard to start from zero and work my way up to knowing enough to make a reasonably educated decision.  Hopefully you experts in here can point me in the right direction.  I thought the easiest way for me to begin would be to throw out a list of my current requirements and see where that takes us.  Let me know if there's any other information I need to provide so you can get me started.

Thanks in advance to everyone who contributes.

1. Must match Trijicon ACOG TA01B BDC close enough to be useable (it is calibrated for a 168 grain projectile)
2. Must be brass cased ammo (no steel/polymer/laquer)
3. I prefer to stay away from steel/lead core rounds, as in my experience they are typically less accurate
4. I'm open to all projectile types (FMJ/HPBT/SP).  This gun will be used for hunting some, but I am more concerned with reliability, price, and accuracy than I am with terminal performance.
5. I'd like to spend middle ground money - I don't want to go so low priced as steel Wolf/Tula, but I'm not willing to pay Hornady or Black Hills money.

Again, let me know if there's any other info I can provide that would help you guys and gals point me in the right direction.

edited to add:  This will be used in my PA10 Gen 2 with 18" stainless barrel.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 12:07:49 PM EDT
[#1]
Winchester 150 gr. softpoints work well in my PA10.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 12:17:18 PM EDT
[#2]
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/30-cal-.308-168-gr-eld-match#!/
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 12:46:09 PM EDT
[#3]
I had real good luck with Portagese 147 gr. NATO. Never failed and was pretty darn accurate shooting it in my M1A in High Power. I've used is in my AR10 for a few outlaw precision matches and it did find.

Only other option if you don't want to reload is Hornaday American Gunner or Black. It doesn't sound like you want Freedom Munitions 168 reloads, but that would be the cheapest 168 gr ammo.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 2:59:09 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 3:16:39 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
Personally, I have accepted the fact that I enjoy shooting accurate ammo more then so-so ammo...

I try to not think about the cost while shooting.... that said, How does the 168gr FGMM shoot in your PSA ?

http://www.sgammo.com/product/federal/200-round-case-308-federal-gold-medal-match-168-grain-bthp-ammo-gm308m

SGAmmo also has .308 150 and 168gr GD at a very reasonable cost.
View Quote
Thanks for the link.  I found some Prvi 168gr match ammo for about 70 cents/round.  Seems to check all the boxes.  Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

http://www.sgammo.com/product/308-win-762x51-ammo/500-round-case-308-win-match-168-grain-bthp-prvi-partizan-ammo-pp321
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 3:17:21 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/30-cal-.308-168-gr-eld-match#!/
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I'm sure it's great ammo, but I don't reload so I need to buy factory loaded ammo.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 3:20:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I had real good luck with Portagese 147 gr. NATO. Never failed and was pretty darn accurate shooting it in my M1A in High Power. I've used is in my AR10 for a few outlaw precision matches and it did find.

Only other option if you don't want to reload is Hornaday American Gunner or Black. It doesn't sound like you want Freedom Munitions 168 reloads, but that would be the cheapest 168 gr ammo.
View Quote
I tried some Malaysian 146 grain surplus and while accuracy was good, the ammo seemed extra dirty and I kept having issues with extraction.  I've since installed an adjustable gas block so that should mitigate the extraction issues.

Any idea the ballistic coefficient of that Portugese 147gr NATO stuff?  If it's close enough to 168 grain, it might be worth a shot.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 3:20:04 PM EDT
[#8]
Only accurate rifles are interesting, and it's true.

As a shooter, I say pick a few types of factory ammunition that meets your financial criteria and see what your rifle likes.

As a reloader, I say pick several projectiles and load develop to see what your rifle likes.

As a person who does both the above, find a factory ammunition that works and then load something that is similar in ballistics.

A member that I know personally was on the same quest as you for his LMT and saw that when a 165 SST loaded right and matched with the Elcan Spectre, he finally ended his quest for good ammo and went into mass production to stock up on it.

Good luck, it's quite the adventure with rifles that group well to awesome after doing some legwork.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 3:21:32 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Thanks for the link.  I found some Prvi 168gr match ammo for about 70 cents/round.  Seems to check all the boxes.  Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

http://www.sgammo.com/product/308-win-762x51-ammo/500-round-case-308-win-match-168-grain-bthp-prvi-partizan-ammo-pp321
View Quote
My LR308 loves 168 but it hates PPU 168. Maybe you might have a better experience.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 4:06:16 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm sure it's great ammo, but I don't reload so I need to buy factory loaded ammo.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/30-cal-.308-168-gr-eld-match#!/
I'm sure it's great ammo, but I don't reload so I need to buy factory loaded ammo.
They make this in loaded ammo, I just can't find the product number on their site.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 4:21:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They make this in loaded ammo, I just can't find the product number on their site.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
https://www.hornady.com/bullets/rifle/30-cal-.308-168-gr-eld-match#!/
I'm sure it's great ammo, but I don't reload so I need to buy factory loaded ammo.
They make this in loaded ammo, I just can't find the product number on their site.
It's the white box that says Match and Hornady on it.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 5:52:09 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Only accurate rifles are interesting, and it's true.

As a shooter, I say pick a few types of factory ammunition that meets your financial criteria and see what your rifle likes.

Good luck, it's quite the adventure with rifles that group well to awesome after doing some legwork.
View Quote
I think this is the best advice.  I need to buy 20-40 rounds of 3-4 types of ammo and just see what the gun likes.  If I shot more than 100-200 rounds per year, I'd seriously think about reloading, but honestly I'm the type to find a round that works, then stock up on it and only have to resupply once every 3-4 years.

Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 5:55:03 PM EDT
[#13]
No problem. I just ask that you save your brass and if if it's not needed, then sell it here on the EE for those that do.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 10:35:43 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
No problem. I just ask that you save your brass and if if it's not needed, then sell it here on the EE for those that do.
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More than fair request.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 10:57:26 PM EDT
[#15]
The MEN 7.62 shoots really well.
Link Posted: 2/11/2018 11:06:16 PM EDT
[#16]
I just went through the same dilemma and finally ended up with Winchester Super X 3085 Power Point 150gr  for break in. I also bought Hornady Black 80971 168gr A-Max. I got 200 rounds of the Winchester and 100 of the Hornady. I intend to use the rifle for hunting and the Winchester should be fine for that if it at least shoots MOA. With my 22" 1/10 barrel I expect it will do that at 100 yards. I expect a lot better accuracy out of the Hornady but I wouldn't use it for hunting.

I would suggest using a lighter bullet for your break in since it will be easier on your shoulder and you'll be done with that chore much quicker.
Link Posted: 2/12/2018 12:39:25 AM EDT
[#17]
147 grain PPU runs great in my Armalite SASS.  Out to 200 yards it prints as well as FGMM.  You can find it for just under $10 a box.
Link Posted: 2/12/2018 5:09:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I tried some Malaysian 146 grain surplus and while accuracy was good, the ammo seemed extra dirty and I kept having issues with extraction.  I've since installed an adjustable gas block so that should mitigate the extraction issues.

Any idea the ballistic coefficient of that Portugese 147gr NATO stuff?  If it's close enough to 168 grain, it might be worth a shot.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had real good luck with Portagese 147 gr. NATO. Never failed and was pretty darn accurate shooting it in my M1A in High Power. I've used is in my AR10 for a few outlaw precision matches and it did find.

Only other option if you don't want to reload is Hornaday American Gunner or Black. It doesn't sound like you want Freedom Munitions 168 reloads, but that would be the cheapest 168 gr ammo.
I tried some Malaysian 146 grain surplus and while accuracy was good, the ammo seemed extra dirty and I kept having issues with extraction.  I've since installed an adjustable gas block so that should mitigate the extraction issues.

Any idea the ballistic coefficient of that Portugese 147gr NATO stuff?  If it's close enough to 168 grain, it might be worth a shot.
The Malaysian and Indian ammo was pretty dirty, and wasn't super reliable. I shot a lot of Portugese ammo any like most European/South African NATO ammo it was clean, reliable, and pretty accurate. I shot quite a few short range High Power matches with it in the 90's. I used to get the ammo so cheap most people would not believe it. I bought a lot cheap and stacked it deep.

One other option is the Hornaday American Gunner, from Sportsman Warehouse, when in stock it is $139 for 200 reds. it has 168 gr. BTHP bullets.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 12:17:36 AM EDT
[#19]
I would be suspicious of 308 Perfecta from Wal-Mart. I had my one and only failure in my Bushmaster out of 300 or so (various brand) rounds fired with the Perfecta. One empty round stovepiped and held the next round in the magazine down causing the tip of the bullet to push back in the casing when it hit the feedramp. I suspect the root cause was the fired round just didn't have quite enough push.  Low price but sometimes you get what you pay for. Just my .02
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 1:15:50 AM EDT
[#20]
TA-01B is calibrated for a 168gr projectile (think Fed GMM) out of a 20" barrel. Out of an 18" barrel, you won't really see a difference.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 4:56:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
TA-01B is calibrated for a 168gr projectile (think Fed GMM) out of a 20" barrel. Out of an 18" barrel, you won't really see a difference.
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Understood, which is why I'm trying to stick to 168gr projectiles.  I'm more concerned with a 147 or 150 grain round not matching the BDC.
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 4:57:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

The Malaysian and Indian ammo was pretty dirty, and wasn't super reliable. I shot a lot of Portugese ammo any like most European/South African NATO ammo it was clean, reliable, and pretty accurate. I shot quite a few short range High Power matches with it in the 90's. I used to get the ammo so cheap most people would not believe it. I bought a lot cheap and stacked it deep.

One other option is the Hornaday American Gunner, from Sportsman Warehouse, when in stock it is $139 for 200 reds. it has 168 gr. BTHP bullets.
View Quote
Thanks, seems like a promising candidate but I'm struggling to find any 168 grain online.  I see lots of 155 grain, but nothing in the 168 flavor.  Do you have a link you could post here?
Link Posted: 2/13/2018 5:03:32 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Thanks, seems like a promising candidate but I'm struggling to find any 168 grain online.  I see lots of 155 grain, but nothing in the 168 flavor.  Do you have a link you could post here?
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Best I saw online for 168:

https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/sportsmans/mobile/Ammo-Inc-Rifle-Ammo/productDetail/Rifle-Ammunition/prod99999054705/cat100114
Link Posted: 2/14/2018 8:55:09 AM EDT
[#24]
When you said 'decent', I'm thinking ammo capable of 1 moa from your rifle but that's subjective because one key variable is the barrel so I would suggest finding a baseline with well established top notch match ammo such as Blackhills Match or Federal GM.  Your best bet is to get a box of each to see which one your gun likes.  I'd like a starting point with either BlackHills or Federal GM in 168 and/or 175.  Once you have the baseline then perhaps the quest for decent ammo can be sought.  An example is my new Faxon AR10 barrel, it will hold 1 moa with Fed GM 168 and the surprise 'decent' ammo for it is the old Australian L1A1 147 gr FMJ surplus, 2-2.5 moa while PPU 168 is somewhere north of 4 moa.  I can use my stash of Aussie for long range practice and save the Fed GM for competition.

PPU 168 sux in all of my 308s (2 Tikkas and 2 AR10s with Mega and Faxon barrels) so I wrote off these PPUs, they are no better than 147 FMJ mil surp stuffs.

In general, you will not get anything decent for less than 0.90/round.  The Hornady 155 gr BTHP steel match is ok in my guns but might be better in others', this is about $0.85/round.
Link Posted: 2/14/2018 3:34:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I think this is the best advice.  I need to buy 20-40 rounds of 3-4 types of ammo and just see what the gun likes.  If I shot more than 100-200 rounds per year, I'd seriously think about reloading, but honestly I'm the type to find a round that works, then stock up on it and only have to resupply once every 3-4 years.

Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated.
View Quote
This is your best bet.  Honestly, I don't think you're going to find anything that's going to match your BDC perfectly.  It will probably be "close enough" out to 3 or 400 yards, but even with FGMM 168s, you're giving up 2" of bbl (velocity) to the BDC, and the BDC isn't going to fit every 20" bbl.

What I do is find what is the best combo of most accurate and best performer at distance (wind/drop), then test it at KD, and write down where I am.  Maybe I'm dead on at 585 rather than 600, maybe I'm x amount high at 800.  Knowing this, I can adjust to where my particular rifle ammo combination is actually going to be.

Edit to add:

I'm a FGMM 175 and M118LR fan, but I've had good luck with Privi 168s.  Not so much with their 175s, but a buddy had a GAP bolt gun that shot them like a laser.  I've not tried the Hornady ELDs in 308, but I would if I were you.
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 4:22:40 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
I'm a FGMM 175 and M118LR fan, but I've had good luck with Privi 168s.  Not so much with their 175s, but a buddy had a GAP bolt gun that shot them like a laser.  I've not tried the Hornady ELDs in 308, but I would if I were you.
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Only 308 I own is my FAL but it has done well (for a FAL) with Privi 168gr "match" and some Lake City milsurp "match" from the late 60s.  Groups dropped size by 30-40%
Link Posted: 2/15/2018 9:42:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Thanks for the link.  I found some Prvi 168gr match ammo for about 70 cents/round.  Seems to check all the boxes.  Anyone have any experience with this stuff?

http://www.sgammo.com/product/308-win-762x51-ammo/500-round-case-308-win-match-168-grain-bthp-prvi-partizan-ammo-pp321
View Quote
I have shot the PPU a bunch out of a bolt action and also DD5V1. I get mediocre groups with both guns.  I chrono'd the PPU match and the velocity is inconsistent.
Link Posted: 2/16/2018 12:26:09 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have shot the PPU a bunch out of a bolt action and also DD5V1. I get mediocre groups with both guns.  I chrono'd the PPU match and the velocity is inconsistent.
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Thank you.
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