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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 2/14/2020 6:02:57 PM EDT
So I've got around 2500rds through this LMT MRP. Currently suppressed. All have been flawless (besides a bad extractor that was replaced early on). Today, I went to the range and experienced what looked like a weird double feed with several different magazines pretty frequently, and once while driopping the bolt on a fresh mag. See pic. Both rounds are live and unfired.



The bottom round pops up and catches the bolt during it's forward travel, and keeps the top round from chambering. This was the same malfunction every time it happend. Always two live rounds. I thought magazines, but it happened with gen3 pmags, Okay Ind. USGI's, and a buddy's DD mag (5 different mags in total). All these mags worked fine previously in multiple rifles. When evaluated, sometimes the hammer was cocked, other times it was not.

Ambient temp was 18F. I used an H3 buffer with Geissele braided wire spring and a carbine buffer with a Tubbs Flatwire spring today. Both allowed the malfunction to happen. I used an H2 with the Geissele braided wire spring for most of the previus rounds before today. But the first 300rds today were fine with the h3 as well. I applied more lube. Still malfunctioned.

After the last rounds of the day were fired, I noticed the pistol grip was loose. I tightened it down and applied locktite. I don't know how this could have possibly caused double feed malfunctions. Becasue my ammo ran dry, I could not test.

Any thoughts?
Link Posted: 2/15/2020 5:40:31 PM EDT
[#1]
I would say it's a mag issue if it wasn't happening with multiple mags.
The top round should feed forward and it should be holding the next round down. The second round should be held down by the first round and the bullet tip of the second round should stop against the front of the mag, which would stop it from sliding forward.
A possible cause would be that the buffer is hammering into the rear of the receiver extension and jarring the rounds in the mag around? I assume the gun cycled with the same recoil as usual and nothing stood out as different? I guess the loose pistol grip may have allowed the gun to jar more than usual and contribute to rounds popping loose?
I would first try it out with the grip secure and see if anything changed. This will at least eliminate it as a cause.
Link Posted: 2/15/2020 9:06:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 2/17/2020 9:23:40 AM EDT
[#3]
The easiest check is to shoot with your pistol grip tightened down just to eliminate.

My 2nd check would be what Dano said - swap in a new buffer spring, and personally I'd start testing with a carbine buffer and move up from there. I know you said you tried 2 springs, but if you shoot a lot I can imagine them both seeing thousands of rds apiece.

That double feed looks exactly like what I see on newly suppressed guns that are over gassed. Tune gas down via adjustable block/key/carrier and that has eliminated the issue 100% of the time for me so far. If your buffer springs are worn, you might be experiencing a similar issue of the carrier moving too hard/fast, and a simple spring change might be all it takes to bring you back to normal operation.
Link Posted: 2/17/2020 10:57:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 2/17/2020 11:55:42 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Stranger things have happened... you "might" be on the ragged edge of limp-wristing your AR.  Cold, possible cold and gummy lube, and a less then sturdy grip.

I read about one guys 308 AR not feeding right... he keep sending it in... manufacturer kept sending it back with and A-Ok rating. Turned out the guy was 170lbs.. the tester was 230lbs.

So as "luck" would have it... the owners "stance" ( ? ) was a contributing factor to the issue short stroking issue.

Kind of a tolerance staking.

Not saying yours is this issue for sure... but I would certainly test fire again... with a tight grip, and less lube and clean BCG.
View Quote
Yeah im not changing anything until I have a chance to shoot again now that the grip screw is secure again. I'll post back with what ik find. I appreciate all the input.
Link Posted: 2/18/2020 11:15:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 3/3/2020 11:41:11 AM EDT
[#7]
Is this happening after cleaning/lubing? Are you noticing evidence of oil around the top of the magazine or on the rounds that are feeding improperly?

This was happening to me with several different rifles a while back, ARs and an AUG, with various magazines. All shooting suppressed after being cleaned and lubed. I was being too generous with the oil and the blowback from the suppressor was forcing oil from the bolt carrier down to the magazine. I've since stopped over lubing and haven't had an issue since.
Link Posted: 3/4/2020 3:10:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Is this happening after cleaning/lubing? Are you noticing evidence of oil around the top of the magazine or on the rounds that are feeding improperly?

This was happening to me with several different rifles a while back, ARs and an AUG, with various magazines. All shooting suppressed after being cleaned and lubed. I was being too generous with the oil and the blowback from the suppressor was forcing oil from the bolt carrier down to the magazine. I've since stopped over lubing and haven't had an issue since.
View Quote
The rifle was still dirty from my previous range trip. When the nalglfunctions started, I had about 1100 or 1200rds through it without a cleaning. Been waiting on some things I bought to show up before heading back to the range. Friday morning will be the moment of truth for it. My money is still on the pistol grip being loose. Timing is too ironic.
Link Posted: 3/4/2020 1:29:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Link Posted: 3/4/2020 4:03:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

That shite will get you killed in Country!!!!!

At the 300 round counts on a M-16, you need to at least pull back on the charging handle enough to add some fresh CLP into the carrier gas ports to flow it to the back carrier gas sections (use the FA to lock the bolt back home on that live round), so as you continue to fire the weapon in adverse condition, the Fresh CLP will migrate through the rifle so the cleaning agent in the CLP can dissolve any fouling that is trying to build up and choke the rifle out.  Throw a can into the works with high back pressure, and would step the added CLP down to around the 200 round count instead.

Once you do get out of the fire fight, them break the weapon down to clean and relube it correctly, including using a chamber brush with CLP to clean the chamber.

Hell, with your round counts, would not even take a Pig, Duece or M-240 that long without a barrel changes, much less breaking out the LSA  on the second barrel change. M-249 maybe for that round count, but would still be lubed along the way.
View Quote
I purposefully have not been cleaining it to see when I start to induce malfunction from carbon buildup and lack of lubrication. If my rifle cannot go through 1000rds without a cleaning, I'm unipressed. Your issued M16 is not built with the same level of components or lubricated with higher performance lubrication, and has seen many many more rounds. This isn't the first time I've pushed it beyond 1000rds without a cleaning, and I'm 99.9% sure thats not what is causing the malfunction. Many documented rifles go without cleaning for much longer. Friday will tell, I'm willing to eat crow if I'm wrong.
Link Posted: 3/6/2020 2:59:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Update:
No failures through several hundred rounds today. Only change was pistol grip tightened and back to H2 buffer. Loose pistol grip was for sure causing the issue.
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AR Sponsor: bravocompany
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