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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:31:46 PM EDT
[#1]
I use a KNS Hammer Cage. makes it super simple. unfortunately discontinued. So if you get a chance to pick one up in the second-hand market, seriously consider it.
video below, starting at about 2:35. ETHRON1 sure knows how to make a short story really long and circuitous.  The KNS Precision Hammer Cage and Trigger and Hammer Guide Pins |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 12:21:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Discontinued?!
I love that tool... It makes the hammer install easy enough to do it blindfolded. I am so glad I have one, and it was worth every penny. The bidding is now open for some lucky arfcommer to be in my will.   Pried from my cold dead hands! |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 12:24:39 AM EDT
[#3]
I can pass my KNS hammer cage on. I like it, but I am so used to doing it without, I won't miss it too much.
Last 4 builds, I forgot I had it.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 12:34:11 AM EDT
[#4]
Thumbs and fingers, no problema
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Posted: 2/25/2021 12:40:32 AM EDT
[#5]
I use the proper sized punch to hold everything in place, then press the pin through.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:25:59 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I use the proper sized punch to hold everything in place, then press the pin through. Same but I have done it without. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:29:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Discontinued?! I love that tool... It makes the hammer install easy enough to do it blindfolded. I am so glad I have one, and it was worth every penny. The bidding is now open for some lucky arfcommer to be in my will. Pried from my cold dead hands! Considering that this is the OP's first post in 17 years, I believe he deserves one! I could understand that KNS didn't sell a lot of them, but I wonder why they stopped making them. If it wasn't for the probable patent issues, that would be a great tool for a small shop to produce and sell. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 8:58:22 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:33:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LINK I must be having an off day. What am I looking at? How does this help with a trigger install? 
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:50:23 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I must be having an off day. What am I looking at? How does this help with a trigger install? https://4drentals.com/4dproducts/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/KMS-AR-Guides.jpg 1) It helps align the hole of the disconnect with the holes in the trigger and aligns both of these holes with the ones in the lower, and holds them all in alignment until the tool is pushed out by the actual pin. 2) It a) helps push the hammer retaining spring out of the way, and b) helps align the hole of the hammer in alignment with the holes in the receiver, and holds them all in alignment until the tool is pushed out by the actual pin. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:25:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1) It helps align the hole of the disconnect with the holes in the trigger and aligns both of these holes with the ones in the lower, and holds them all in alignment until the tool is pushed out by the actual pin. 2) It a) helps push the hammer retaining spring out of the way, and b) helps align the hole of the hammer in alignment with the holes in the receiver, and holds them all in alignment until the tool is pushed out by the actual pin. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I must be having an off day. What am I looking at? How does this help with a trigger install? https://4drentals.com/4dproducts/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/KMS-AR-Guides.jpg 1) It helps align the hole of the disconnect with the holes in the trigger and aligns both of these holes with the ones in the lower, and holds them all in alignment until the tool is pushed out by the actual pin. 2) It a) helps push the hammer retaining spring out of the way, and b) helps align the hole of the hammer in alignment with the holes in the receiver, and holds them all in alignment until the tool is pushed out by the actual pin. Couldn't explain it better if I tried. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:53:05 PM EDT
[#12]
A slave pin is all I've ever used.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 9:06:01 PM EDT
[#13]
It can be done just fine with two hands and no extra gizmos.
The gizmos do help simplify it though. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:04:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Thanks guys. I've used some the the KNS products but was unaware of the hammer cage tool. I made a slave pin to hold the trigger and disconnector together when I install them, so I have no problem there. It's pushing on the hammer against the spring pressure trying to get the holes in the hammer down to the holes in the receiver that gives my 80 year old fingers fits. That hammer cage is genius. Too bad they're no longer available. KNS still has the hammer/trigger pin kit available on their web site and at $16.00 it's cheaper to buy than make. I did notice a couple of times when i was struggling to get the hammer in position, I accidentally engaged the hammer to the trigger and that seemed to make it a little easier. There are a lot of self-contained trigger sets in the Brownells catalog. I've installed a couple of the CMC with the straight trigger and they were easy to install and worked great. Anyway, I still have 4 more Geissele triggers so I'll just have to slog through.
By the way, during the previous 17 years I shot a lot of Palma, VFS, F-Class, Fullbore and short range benchrest before diving into AR building. |
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Posted: 3/1/2021 8:55:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Strange. Admittedly, it's been probably 3 years since I've installed one, but I don't recall it being a particularly difficult task. Nowhere near as hard as the pivot pin/spring/detent assembly. I made a special tool for that.
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Posted: 3/1/2021 9:46:00 AM EDT
[#16]
I would imagine that any task involving alignment/handling of small components is a chore at 80 years of age.
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Posted: 3/4/2021 8:49:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks guys. I've used some the the KNS products but was unaware of the hammer cage tool. I made a slave pin to hold the trigger and disconnector together when I install them, so I have no problem there. It's pushing on the hammer against the spring pressure trying to get the holes in the hammer down to the holes in the receiver that gives my 80 year old fingers fits. That hammer cage is genius. Too bad they're no longer available. KNS still has the hammer/trigger pin kit available on their web site and at $16.00 it's cheaper to buy than make. I did notice a couple of times when i was struggling to get the hammer in position, I accidentally engaged the hammer to the trigger and that seemed to make it a little easier. There are a lot of self-contained trigger sets in the Brownells catalog. I've installed a couple of the CMC with the straight trigger and they were easy to install and worked great. Anyway, I still have 4 more Geissele triggers so I'll just have to slog through. By the way, during the previous 17 years I shot a lot of Palma, VFS, F-Class, Fullbore and short range benchrest before diving into AR building. Normally I prefer to do this kind of stuff via the IM system here... however, I don't know how often adamsgt actually signs in... so ... @adamsgt , I am pretty sure I have a spare KNS Hammer Cage in my tool box. If you would like it, I will send it free of charge. Just say so in this thread, and we can talk via, the IM system here. Be prepared to have whatever address you would like it shipped to. ( I usually use a non home address, just so there is zero % chance my gun home address is not out in internet land ) |
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Posted: 3/4/2021 11:58:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Super easy without any tools.
Place hammer in with correct spring orientation Cock hammer back to lock in place with disconnector and the hammer pin hole will align with receiver hole (helps to then put safety on) |
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Posted: 3/11/2021 5:35:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Normally I prefer to do this kind of stuff via the IM system here... however, I don't know how often adamsgt actually signs in... so ... @adamsgt , I am pretty sure I have a spare KNS Hammer Cage in my tool box. If you would like it, I will send it free of charge. Just say so in this thread, and we can talk via, the IM system here. Be prepared to have whatever address you would like it shipped to. ( I usually use a non home address, just so there is zero % chance my gun home address is not out in internet land ) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thanks guys. I've used some the the KNS products but was unaware of the hammer cage tool. I made a slave pin to hold the trigger and disconnector together when I install them, so I have no problem there. It's pushing on the hammer against the spring pressure trying to get the holes in the hammer down to the holes in the receiver that gives my 80 year old fingers fits. That hammer cage is genius. Too bad they're no longer available. KNS still has the hammer/trigger pin kit available on their web site and at $16.00 it's cheaper to buy than make. I did notice a couple of times when i was struggling to get the hammer in position, I accidentally engaged the hammer to the trigger and that seemed to make it a little easier. There are a lot of self-contained trigger sets in the Brownells catalog. I've installed a couple of the CMC with the straight trigger and they were easy to install and worked great. Anyway, I still have 4 more Geissele triggers so I'll just have to slog through. By the way, during the previous 17 years I shot a lot of Palma, VFS, F-Class, Fullbore and short range benchrest before diving into AR building. Normally I prefer to do this kind of stuff via the IM system here... however, I don't know how often adamsgt actually signs in... so ... @adamsgt , I am pretty sure I have a spare KNS Hammer Cage in my tool box. If you would like it, I will send it free of charge. Just say so in this thread, and we can talk via, the IM system here. Be prepared to have whatever address you would like it shipped to. ( I usually use a non home address, just so there is zero % chance my gun home address is not out in internet land ) @bfoosh06 If he doesn't want it, I would definitely be interested in it myself. |
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Posted: 3/11/2021 6:34:17 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thumbs and fingers, no problema ^^ This ^^ I find it easier to get the hammer in, at times, if I "set" the unit so the disco grabs it, and takes a lot of tension out of the unit. |
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Posted: 3/12/2021 6:07:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @bfoosh06 If he doesn't want it, I would definitely be interested in it myself. @556Gunner ... let me see how many I have , I would like to make sure @adamsgt gets one for sure.... and seeing how he rarely signs in I'd like to give him a bit of time. ( 2 posts since 2004 ! ) And Since I am forgetful.... 556Gunner , be sure to remind me in a week. Make sure to tell me I said to do that, Lol, so I remember what we are talking about.  ... so IM me.
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Posted: 3/12/2021 7:37:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @556Gunner ... let me see how many I have , I would like to make sure @adamsgt gets one for sure.... and seeing how he rarely signs in I'd like to give him a bit of time. ( 2 posts since 2004 ! ) And Since I am forgetful.... 556Gunner , be sure to remind me in a week. Make sure to tell me I said to do that, Lol, so I remember what we are talking about. ... so IM me.Very nice of you to offer that up to adamsgt ! I'm sure he'll appreciate it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:27:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A slave pin is all I've ever used. I took a 5/32" drill bit, a dremel tool and made my own Slave pin. Worked like a charm and better than expected |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 2:31:15 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would imagine that any task involving alignment/handling of small components is a chore at 80 years of age. I missed that. I can only hope that I will still be able to tinker with these toys @ 80 yoa. Godspeed.... |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 10:37:23 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A slave pin is all I've ever used. Please explain how a slave pin helps with a hammer installation. Does wonders when installing the trigger/disconnector, but the hammer? |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 5:42:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would imagine that any task involving alignment/handling of small components is a chore at 80 years of age. This, exactly. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 5:44:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very nice of you to offer that up to adamsgt ! I'm sure he'll appreciate it. And Thank you for the kind words.... Now if we could get a hold of adamsgt !! |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 8:06:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Thanks for the offer. I'd like to take you up on it as I have more builds to do. Sorry to take so long to reply but things here have been a bit volatile here since the ice storm hit and I've also been busy getting my middle daughter up to speed on handgun shooting. She's decided she wants to be armed as she lives alone and I'm helping her with equipment and training at my local club. I'm not familiar with the IM system here and will look at it after I post this message. Hope I'm not too late.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 8:36:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Strange. Admittedly, it's been probably 3 years since I've installed one, but I don't recall it being a particularly difficult task. Nowhere near as hard as the pivot pin/spring/detent assembly. I made a special tool for that. I have more than a few detent springs and pins hiding on my workshop floor. It'll be interesting to see how many when I move out. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 9:08:45 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please explain how a slave pin helps with a hammer installation. Does wonders when installing the trigger/disconnector, but the hammer? A slave pin like those included with KNS pins. A bullet shaped pin to align everything. With a 4" slave pin, you have enough leverage to pull on the pin while simultaneously keeping everything in line as you push in the pins. If you're putting one together every month or so, no big deal, but doing 5-10 in a row, you'll appreciate everything that simplifies the process. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 10:01:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:A slave pin like those included with KNS pins. A bullet shaped pin to align everything. With a 4" slave pin, you have enough leverage to pull on the pin while simultaneously keeping everything in line as you push in the pins. If you're putting one together every month or so, no big deal, but doing 5-10 in a row, you'll appreciate everything that simplifies the process. I can't see any way that a slave pin would help in the installation of a hammer. I've used plenty of KNS pin sets and they do not include an actual slave pin like the one that comes with Geissele triggers. The Geissele slave pin is only used to hold the trigger and disconnector together which makes the trigger pin easier to install. The bullet shaped brass pieces that KNS includes help somewhat when installing the trigger/disconnector sub assembly, but do nothing for the installation of the hammer. The hammer pin can't use the brass pieces. If you put the Geissele slave pin in the hammer, you have accomplished nothing to make installation easier. Am I missing something? Maybe we only have a terminology problem here. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 10:14:12 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the offer. I'd like to take you up on it as I have more builds to do. Sorry to take so long to reply but things here have been a bit volatile here since the ice storm hit and I've also been busy getting my middle daughter up to speed on handgun shooting. She's decided she wants to be armed as she lives alone and I'm helping her with equipment and training at my local club. I'm not familiar with the IM system here and will look at it after I post this message. Hope I'm not too late. @adamsgt No worries ! We all have life stuff to do, I am just glad it can help make some stuff easier. Watch the upper right hand corner, above your webpage name... when the "envelope" turns orange ( there might be more colors, but mine is orange ) then you have a message. I will dig it out. Pretty sure where I put it.... Lol ( Edit... Found it surprisingly fast , Lol ) Please double check your address, you will find it in my IM reply I have read your IM and will send it out Priority mail early next week. This video shows how the Hammer Cage works... at about the 7 minute part. ( rpol98 already posted it... but I wasn't sure how many watched until the Hammer Cage part ) The KNS Precision Hammer Cage and Trigger and Hammer Guide Pins |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 11:21:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe we only have a terminology problem here. This |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 11:26:57 AM EDT
[#34]
Sometimes alignment of the assembly / pin can be a pain. Other times not an issue. When alignment problems arise, a slave pin, snipped firing pin, punch, etc can indeed help with installation. That's just the way it is.
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Posted: 3/14/2021 11:32:49 AM EDT
[#35]
If I don't get it on the first try going commando I use a punch to line it up. I have one I ground a ball tip in. Good lighting helps.
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Posted: 3/14/2021 12:44:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I don't get it on the first try going commando I use a punch to line it up. I have one I ground a ball tip in. Good lighting helps. Amen to the lighting. I just hired a guy to do some plumbing work under my sink and he used one of those headlamps to see under there. A light bulb went off in my head when I saw that and promptly ordered two from Amazon. Made all the difference when I started working on my next lower. I had been struggling with two goose neck lamps to get sufficient illumination but they kept getting in the way. Wish I had thought of that six lowers ago. |
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Posted: 3/15/2021 1:07:11 PM EDT
[#37]
@adamsgt
IM sent. |
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Posted: 3/18/2021 7:33:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Received the well packed package today. After getting through the tape and removing the contents, for a moment, it looked like you had wrapped everything in your old underwear.
But thank you for using the nice rag material which I can use while cleaning my guns. Going through all the items you included made me feel like I was opening a Xmas present. I can't thank you enough for your generosity. Looking over the hammer cage took me back in time to 1982. I had just retired from the Air Force and gone to Trinidad Colorado to the gunsmithing school. My instructor for Bench Metal was Leonard Bull. An Englishman, He had learned gunsmithing as an apprentice and plied his skills in Africa servicing the Safari trade. One day in class I saw him going through a pile of parts on his desk and asked him what he was working on. He replied that this was what left of a big game rifle and he was trying to get it back into working condition. He had arranged the parts on his desk and commented that one or two parts were missing in the lock works. I asked him what he was going to do. He replied "Well, I'll have to invent something". Well he did. So, to me the hammer cage is the epitome of that kind of thinking. I don't have that to the degree that Leonard did but remember him when I get stumped on something. Now, every time I pick up the hammer cage it will inspire a warm recollection.
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Posted: 3/18/2021 9:01:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @adamsgt IM sent. 
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Posted: 3/19/2021 9:45:47 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Received the well packed package today. After getting through the tape and removing the contents, for a moment, it looked like you had wrapped everything in your old underwear. But thank you for using the nice rag material which I can use while cleaning my guns. Going through all the items you included made me feel like I was opening a Xmas present. I can't thank you enough for your generosity. Looking over the hammer cage took me back in time to 1982. I had just retired from the Air Force and gone to Trinidad Colorado to the gunsmithing school. My instructor for Bench Metal was Leonard Bull. An Englishman, He had learned gunsmithing as an apprentice and plied his skills in Africa servicing the Safari trade. One day in class I saw him going through a pile of parts on his desk and asked him what he was working on. He replied that this was what left of a big game rifle and he was trying to get it back into working condition. He had arranged the parts on his desk and commented that one or two parts were missing in the lock works. I asked him what he was going to do. He replied "Well, I'll have to invent something". Well he did. So, to me the hammer cage is the epitome of that kind of thinking. I don't have that to the degree that Leonard did but remember him when I get stumped on something. Now, every time I pick up the hammer cage it will inspire a warm recollection.Lol.... sorry about the rags ! It is a convenient packing material...We use hundreds of pounds of them at work. Enjoy your March Christmas Present ! |
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Posted: 3/20/2021 12:15:16 PM EDT
[#41]
@bfoosh06
I see the other gentleman made contact with you. Thank you so much for the offer. |
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Posted: 3/20/2021 12:17:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol.... sorry about the rags ! It is a convenient packing material...We use hundreds of pounds of them at work. Enjoy your March Christmas Present ! So...I'm NOT the only one that uses rags/towels for packaging materials?
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Posted: 3/21/2021 4:37:59 PM EDT
[#43]
OP, the most important guidance I can give for installing a hammer is to start the hammer pin the right way.
It has a groove on one end and in the middle, right? Start the end that does not have the groove. I also use a slave pin to limit the number of fingers involved in the task. It lets you get the hammer bore lined up before worrying about the pin, then the pin pushes it out of the way. I do use a small brass hammer to tap it in once the end of the pin gets to the “J spring” in the hammer. That’s what the groove in the hammer pin is for: the J spring seats there and retains the pin. I have assembled a bunch of lowers, and swapped a variety of FCGs in and out; the hammer pin is not a real challenge, but it does take some attention to technique. |
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Posted: 3/22/2021 2:02:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So...I'm NOT the only one that uses rags/towels for packaging materials? Lol.... easier and more useful then the bubble wrap ! |
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Posted: 3/31/2021 1:00:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol.... easier and more useful then the bubble wrap ! Also a lot less messy than Styrofoam popcorn. I still get that occasionally in items I order. |
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Posted: 4/3/2021 7:56:01 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also a lot less messy than Styrofoam popcorn. I still get that occasionally in items I order. Arrgh...I wince everytime I get Styrofoam peanuts... static electricity makes those things stick to everything. |
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Posted: 4/4/2021 10:20:30 AM EDT
[#47]
Looking to purchase a KNS hammer cage if anyone knows of one. Thanks. https://www.ar15.com/forums/Equipment-Exchange/WTB-KNS-Hammer-Cage/129-2125573/
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