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Posted: 1/31/2020 8:44:52 PM EDT
[#1]
I have shot a ton of PMC XTAC, mostly the m193. All bought from SGA. It’s pretty decent stuff and certainly on par with WWB. Don’t recall a malfunction.
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Posted: 1/31/2020 8:49:05 PM EDT
[#2]
I shoot a metric fuck ton of IMI and Fiocci
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Posted: 1/31/2020 9:53:13 PM EDT
[#3]
IMI has been good to go for me.
Same with fiocchi. |
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Posted: 1/31/2020 10:04:50 PM EDT
[#4]
Ive stored ammo that meets NATO specs for the most part. Eastern Block, China, Russia and South America not so much, used for cheap shooting right now.
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Posted: 1/31/2020 10:10:51 PM EDT
[#5]
I’ve shot nearly everything on that list, all have gone bang and gone where I wanted them to go
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Posted: 1/31/2020 10:47:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Wolf Gold is made in Taiwan. I have a bunch of their 55gr FMG. Really good stuff. You S/B able to find it for around 27 cents a round.
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Posted: 1/31/2020 11:09:46 PM EDT
[#7]
Wolf has the cheapest M855 out there, along with the cheapest M193 but I just stick with the regular .223 Wolf Gold for under a quarter a pop. Someone did a video of the .223 Wolf Gold vs the M193 Wolf and the only difference was 10fps which I would consider within the margin of error when you are claiming 3250 fps. If you couldn't see head stamps you would swear Wolf was the US made stuff vs something like Federal American Eagle.
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Posted: 2/1/2020 1:59:44 AM EDT
[#8]
Is this just for training and range purposes? If so, everything you mentioned is pretty much GTG. I wouldn't shoot Tula steel but otherwise would be fine with all of the aforementioned.
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Posted: 2/1/2020 2:11:56 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks, so far, for the info.
I watched some videos on SGAmmo testing the IMI (Israel) and the Fiocci (IVI - Canada). I really expected the IMI to be the better of the two but the velocities were all over the place with standard deviation of 92 while the IVI was very consistent with strings of several shots in a row of exactly the same velocities. If I recall, the standard deviation was maybe 12 or 15, maybe less. Those are two countries from which I would generally trust their quality but I was surprised in that I would have assumed better quality, between the two, from the Israelis. Probably a case of manufacturing for good enough rather than for perfect. |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 2:14:46 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is this just for training and range purposes? If so, everything you mentioned is pretty much GTG. I wouldn't shoot Tula steel but otherwise would be fine with all of the aforementioned. |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 10:39:09 AM EDT
[#11]
What about primers in these various manufactures. I have read before that all modern ammunition made in the US uses non-corrosive primers but this Wikipedia article on center-fire ammunition claims that, other than 7.62x51, military grade ammunition still uses corrosive primers.
This is critical for me; I don't always get to clean my guns soon after shooting. So which is correct - the Internet rumors that all modern primers are clean burning or Wikipedia that they are not clean burning? Not a very reliable couple of sources so I go to ar15.com where, no doubt, I'll get fully accurate and reliable answers. 
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Posted: 2/1/2020 1:58:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I try to shoot at the range using the same ammo as I would use for hunting or protection, so training, range, hunting, defense. I'd recommend against M855 as a defensive loading. It's just not very useful terminally and has been surpassed by any number of soft point, monolithic, and heavy OTM bullets. In my opinion - and that's all it is - the best loadings for terminal performance are 77gr TMK/SMK, TSX monolothics, and FBIT3 TBBC. Those rounds are all closing in on $1/round, so it's going to be tough to train a lot with that. IMO, use M193 for blasting - the felt recoil is going to be 95% identical and POI shift will be negligible at any reasonable home defense distance. That's what I'd recommend. |
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Posted: 2/1/2020 6:45:55 PM EDT
[#13]
MEN, CBC, and Wolf do not sell M855 loads in the US
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Posted: 2/1/2020 9:43:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Fiocchi and S&B have been rock solid for me for years. I'd buy MEN too if it weren't for the higher price. I'd buy IMI also.
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Posted: 2/1/2020 11:48:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MEN, CBC, and Wolf do not sell M855 loads in the US Wolf recently started selling 855 |
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Posted: 2/2/2020 12:31:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Anybody ever shoot the Aguila 5.56? I saw they have a 55 & 62gr.
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Posted: 2/2/2020 4:10:20 PM EDT
[#17]
Has anybody bought ammo from this place?
https://www.theamericanmarksman.com/ Their price on m118lr is lower than anyone else I have ever seen. |
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Posted: 2/2/2020 6:25:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Ive always had good luck with fiocchi, very clean and consistent, and the cases are always shiny and well annealed (not a major concern but it sooths my OCD). One other m855 you didnt mention was GGG. I have found it to be the most accurate and consistent m855 in my rifles and it isnt too expensive. The new wolf variety is a good deal and relatively clean but unexpensive
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Posted: 2/2/2020 7:01:05 PM EDT
[#19]
I've had good luck with
IMI Prvi Guat was good when you could get it. I think I have a few boxes left in my stash. |
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Posted: 2/2/2020 7:37:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Stuff I've personally bought, shot, or use brass from:
PMC (South Korea) Good stuff Wolf (Taiwan) Good stuff Prvi Partizan (Serbia) Good stuff IMI (Israel) Good stuff Remington (USA) Good stuff Federal (USA) Good stuff Winchester (USA and import) Good stuff Hornady (USA) OK Speer (USA) OK Lake City (USA) Good stuff MEN (Germany) Good stuff MagTech (Brasil) Good stuff Sellier & Bellot (Czech Republic) Good stuff Fiocci (Italy and other import) STAY AWAY. It may go bang, but the flash holes in the primer pockets are way out-of-spec, many NOT centered 
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Posted: 2/3/2020 12:45:14 AM EDT
[#21]
But it is stamped "Perfecta"
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Posted: 2/3/2020 5:45:48 AM EDT
[#22]
Winchester and PMC have always been very good to me over the years.
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Posted: 2/3/2020 12:25:37 PM EDT
[#23]
I only shoot one ammo, which is currently Wolf Gold.
I think WG is a great ammo for a very good price. I like knowing that all of my AR's shoot it well, and at the same point of aim. I can pick up any of my AR's and shoot to the proper and expected POI. |
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Posted: 2/3/2020 1:55:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I only shoot one ammo, which is currently Wolf Gold. I think WG is a great ammo for a very good price. I like knowing that all of my AR's shoot it well, and at the same point of aim. I can pick up any of my AR's and shoot to the proper and expected POI. Not to say that others aren't good, it's just that the WG does me so well for the price, and reloads just fine, that I don't want to screw around with drastic POI changes, excessively heavy primer crimps (looking at you CBC and MEN!), and paying more. Buy it cheap and stack it deep. What it doesn't do is replace premium ammo such as a Vmax, gold dot, fusion, etc load for their purposes. I still have fusion loaded up in the house rifle (a 10.5"), but have WG magazines ready to roll for everything else. |
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Posted: 2/3/2020 2:09:33 PM EDT
[#25]
Prvi and MEN M193 are nicely made.
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Posted: 2/3/2020 2:36:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it is stamped "Perfecta" from Fiocchi's website |
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Posted: 2/3/2020 3:33:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Here are the one's I've shot and would buy again.
PMC (South Korea) Prvi Partizan (Serbia) IMI (Israel) Remington (USA) Federal (USA) Winchester (USA and import) Hornady (USA) Speer (USA) Lake City (USA) MagTech (Brasil) Sellier & Bellot (Czech Republic) Fiocci (Italy and other import) No complaints on any. I don't reload so if there's a problem with Fiocchi bass it doesn't matter to me. IMI is loaded hot, shoots good in one of my rifles. Of all those I've probably shot the most Priv. |
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Posted: 2/4/2020 12:36:10 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha. If you plan to practice at any substantial round count with a proper defense loading, that's going to get very expensive (if you have the wherewithal, then by all means go for it). I'd recommend against M855 as a defensive loading. It's just not very useful terminally and has been surpassed by any number of soft point, monolithic, and heavy OTM bullets. In my opinion - and that's all it is - the best loadings for terminal performance are 77gr TMK/SMK, TSX monolothics, and FBIT3 TBBC. Those rounds are all closing in on $1/round, so it's going to be tough to train a lot with that. IMO, use M193 for blasting - the felt recoil is going to be 95% identical and POI shift will be negligible at any reasonable home defense distance. That's what I'd recommend. Which leaves me with the same questions about foreign ammunition and corrosive primers. |
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Posted: 2/4/2020 12:36:34 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, but Perfecta is manufactured by, and an ammunition brand name of Fiocchi. I also will not buy Fiocchi .223 ammunition because a number of users here on ARFCOM have complained about off center flash holes in their brass, making them very difficult to de-cap them for reloading. from Fiocchi's website Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
But it is stamped "Perfecta" from Fiocchi's website 
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Posted: 2/4/2020 4:37:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was dripping sarcasm in that post  I’m an idiot. Off-center flash holes = not perfect(a)
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Posted: 2/4/2020 4:58:53 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Stuff I've personally bought, shot, or use brass from: PMC (South Korea) Good stuff Wolf (Taiwan) Good stuff Prvi Partizan (Serbia) Good stuff IMI (Israel) Good stuff Remington (USA) Good stuff Federal (USA) Good stuff Winchester (USA and import) Good stuff Hornady (USA) OK Speer (USA) OK Lake City (USA) Good stuff MEN (Germany) Good stuff MagTech (Brasil) Good stuff Sellier & Bellot (Czech Republic) Good stuff Fiocci (Italy and other import) STAY AWAY. It may go bang, but the flash holes in the primer pockets are way out-of-spec, many NOT centered https://i.imgur.com/bI52hKGl.jpg |
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Posted: 2/4/2020 5:06:59 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
MEN, CBC, and Wolf do not sell M855 loads in the US As well as 300 Blackout primed bass case, 223 bullet in both 55gr and 62 gr. |
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Posted: 2/12/2020 8:46:52 AM EDT
[#33]
Thanks OP for the post.
New to the AR, had concerns about shooting steel cases but was wondering about wolf gold, see a few people recommending it. Getting ready to place ta target sports order. |
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Posted: 2/13/2020 12:18:14 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Other than a couple of accidents over the years, I have always purchased US made ammunition from Federal/American Eagle, Winchester, Remington, and a few special boxes of Hornady SD handgun ammo. I'm not interested in shooting steel-cased cartridges in my guns. I'm looking to get some M855 rounds for my ARs; there are so many overseas, NATO or other internationally manufactured brands it's really hard to know what to get. Options I see quickly on SGAmmo include: PMC (South Korea) Prvi Partizan (Serbia) IMI (Israel) Remington (USA) Federal (USA) Winchester (USA and import) Hornady (USA) Speer (USA) Lake City (USA) MEN (Germany) MagTech (Brasil) Sellier & Bellot (Czech Republic) There are probably many, many more. If I missed any good ones (or bad ones) feel free to call them out. Of those non-US, which are not worth buying? Which are dirty or clean? Check out this article: http://www.thenewrifleman.com/the-convenient-overlap-of-m193-and-the-77-gr-sierra-tmk/ The TMK rounds are not cheap, even when hand loaded at half the price or less of factory. However, the TMK shows excellent terminal performance and accuracy a long ways down range. My personal belief is load a bunch of 55gr SP that is both effective and cheap, note the minor differences versus the TMK rounds, then buy a case of the Black Hills loaded TMK. When you get it and chrono it (assuming you load your own, if not then ignore this) note the specs and load to duplicate. They're really not far off at all, and any 55gr bulk ammo will most likely be more inaccurate than the POI difference of the TMK anyways. Personally, my short to medium range (fairly accurate) loads are all Hornady SPs as they are accurate enough to do the job and cheap enough to plink with. Anything when I'm concerned about precision or reaching out is a TMK. The TMK is not cheap but hand loaded is a steal versus factory and the accuracy is worthwhile. Don't get me wrong, I'll still buy IMI or Federal xm193 or xm855 but it's solely for stacking/ blasting use and brass reclamation later. |
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Posted: 2/15/2020 10:01:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Not the OP, but really had the same question.
Not wanting to shoot steel, was wondering about Wolf Gold all the responses eased my mind some, ordered a couple hundred rounds from target sports to try. Thanks all. |
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Posted: 2/26/2020 11:59:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Don't get me wrong, I'll still buy IMI or Federal xm193 or xm855 but it's solely for stacking/ blasting use and brass reclamation later. |
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