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Page AR-15 » Troubleshooting
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 3/15/2021 6:48:22 PM EDT
This issue I ran into is catching a double feed I am hoping you all can tell me if I am doing something wrong.  Safety is first

Fixed magazine
-The bolt needs to be closed if top loading.
-load.  Pull CH fully and release.  BCG is closed and bullet is chambered. (no issues, fire, BCG re-loads chamber)-
-Now if i want to clear the rest of the  magazine shouldn't I be able to pull the CH to eject through the ejection port to clear whatever is left. (this is where I have run into the double feed)
-Several times doing this it has caused a double feed.  The BCG is closed and a round is chamber.  It is not ejecting the chambered round before lifting another causing the double feed)
-1st can anyone advise what I am doing wrong?  I can't add more than 2000 letters but lots of more questions I'll ask. On this thread.
thank you in advance
Link Posted: 3/15/2021 6:53:37 PM EDT
[#1]
When you pull the CH to the rear is the chambered round extracting?

ETA, doesn't sound like a double feed if the mag round is pooping up.
Are you pulling the CH all the way to the rear quickly?
Link Posted: 3/15/2021 7:01:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
When you pull the CH to the rear is the chambered round extracting?
yes if I load a single round and chamber it.  Then pull the charging CH to the rear it will extract.  If I have 2 rounds in, chamber the first.  Go to pull the CH all the way to the rear it doesn't extract sometimes and will push that second round into the chamber round and the tip will jam under the chambered round.

ETA, doesn't sound like a double feed if the mag round is pooping up.
Are you pulling the CH all the way to the rear quickly?
View Quote

This is where I think I am going wrong.  Should I be pulling the CH to the rear quickly and releasing it (i think this is called slingshotting?)  I believe when i did it this way I was able to clear the entire mag through the ejections port.

Thank you for the help and I will also pay for a lesson on this since the fixed magazine has me very puzzled and I want to be safe.  I just want to know what I am talking about first.
Link Posted: 3/15/2021 7:34:12 PM EDT
[#3]
Depending on which mag you have "fixed", it may be easiest to just drop the mag floorplate.
Link Posted: 3/15/2021 7:46:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Depending on which mag you have "fixed", it may be easiest to just drop the mag floorplate.
View Quote


In all honesty I have never dropped the floorplate of the mag but it looks like I could.  There's a slot that I can push up and feel the spring move (if its not full) and looks like the plate will slide off.

Can I damage the mag doing this?

I did not take this into consideration (not that it would have stopped me from getting an AR)

Still would like to see what I am doing wrong.
Link Posted: 3/15/2021 8:16:39 PM EDT
[#5]
Safe act is 5 or 7 rounds in the mag?

If it's a pinned mag, of 20+ size, then spring tension should he low enough to remove the floorplate in a controlled manner.

However, for time based purposes with only 5/7 rounds, quickly cycling the action should empty the mag in less time than grabbing something to depress the floorplate detent.
Link Posted: 3/15/2021 9:09:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Safe act is 5 or 7 rounds in the mag?

If it's a pinned mag, of 20+ size, then spring tension should he low enough to remove the floorplate in a controlled manner.

However, for time based purposes with only 5/7 rounds, quickly cycling the action should empty the mag in less time than grabbing something to depress the floorplate detent.
View Quote


Safe act is 10 in the mag in NY and its a 10 round mag.  I read if it's a pinned 20 or 30 mag you can't release the floor plate because its epoxed for the 10.

I think when I am cycling the action I am not doing it correct every time.  It should be a full pull back on the CH and release quick (is this called slingshot).  And maybe thats why it works for me every time when i only have 2 rounds in.  Could this be the issue when I am going to cycle?  Not pulling the CH back hard enough and releasing everytime, so the to bolt isn't releasing the round in the chamber it pushes the round in the mag up?

Wondering if there is an issue with the rifle?

Thank you very much for the help!!!
Link Posted: 3/15/2021 11:08:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Make sure the recoil spring is lubed.

Then a quuck action of the CH should work.  
If you can say "one thousand one", you're too slow.
Link Posted: 3/16/2021 1:17:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Link Posted: 3/16/2021 1:55:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Make sure the recoil spring is lubed.

Then a quuck action of the CH should work.  
If you can say "one thousand one", you're too slow.
View Quote


I think this was it.  I was able to follow the CH slow on the older AR I was using.  If I pull back quick and full no issues.  It's not broken in at all yet so it's just really tight.  Played around with empty rounds last night and created the problem.

Thank you for the reply.
Link Posted: 3/16/2021 2:01:58 PM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Pull charging handle back and lock bolt to the rear with bolt catch (even if you have to mortar to get the B/C back), then clear the jams.

Now reach into the action, push the top round down in the mag, uses the charging handle to walk the B/C back forward over the round in the mag you are pushing down, use FA to lock bolt home on empty chamber, then you can shotgun the upper open to deal with the rounds in the mag.

Keep part, is you don't want a live round in the chamber with the bolt locked home as you are screwing with the rifle.

As for fixed mags, about the unsafest thing in the world since when clearing a Jam, you want to drop the mag out first.  
At least with a bullet button, you can drop mag by using a bullet to depress the mag catch, while with the allen bolt type catch wit plug, there is the plug that you would have to remove first, before you could even use the Allen wrench to pull the catch to drop the mag.


View Quote

Thank you very much!  That is what I was doing.  Two times the second round was so jammed under the chambered round i couldn't pry it out to push it back into the mag and walk the BC over the round to shot gun it open.

This fixed mag business definitely created a very unsafe firearm.  I just spoke with a local FFL and they said any other mag lock isn't NY compliant.  As long as the magazine can be removed from the rifle it is considered an assault weapon..  I guess NY really is worse than CA now.

As for the allen key bolt lock I have.  I wouldn't be able to remove the allen bolt and the plug and spring will drop out? Clear then reinstall?
All I got was pull the bottom plate from the magazine....
Link Posted: 3/16/2021 2:37:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 3/16/2021 2:57:15 PM EDT
[#12]
I’m not sure about NY laws regarding ar’s, but is it legal to be able to separate the upper from the lower in order to change mags?
If so, you might be able to go with armaglock or hogue freedom fighter kit to comply with the fixed mag law and still be able to do a mag change and clear double feeds in a safe manner.
Link Posted: 3/16/2021 8:24:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 3/21/2021 10:34:20 AM EDT
[#14]
Take a look at the compmag.  I've tried the hell fighter route (breaking the action to drop a mag)and any type of malfunction is a royal pain in the dick.  

https://www.compmag.net/ar-15-compmag-1/
Link Posted: 3/21/2021 3:38:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Take a look at the compmag.  I've tried the hell fighter route (breaking the action to drop a mag)and any type of malfunction is a royal pain in the dick.  

https://www.compmag.net/ar-15-compmag-1/
View Quote


Thanks man!  I was definitely checking these out.  Pain in the dick is right, I'll have to get my fixed mag drilled out and of course the shops don't want to do anything that's not theirs and other shops wont go near the AR's in NY in fear the rules change by the minute and a ton of them have already been through court.

But if I can do it?  How would this help with a double feed?  I created a double feed on purpose to see how I would handle it with the fixed mag.  OMG pain in the dick and dangerous!.  My only option is to drop the base plate of the magazine.

And would this help in the incident of a squib?  Since the magazine won't "explode downwards" would the opening where you loud rounds blow, making it slightly safer?

Staying legal in NY means making your firearm unsafe for yourself this is a joke.  I am just extra careful, I'm not in a fire fight, lord knows no competitive shooting in NY.  So anything malfunctions I just have to be extra careful.

Can't wait to get out of this hell hole.

Link Posted: 3/21/2021 3:43:22 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:



Pretty sure that the Hogue freedom fighter kit is a No-Go for NY, but armaglock would be fine for the NY rig to at least get the upper shotgun open faster itself once the bolt is locked back home.

New York requires a "permanently" fixed magazine unless the weapon is featureless, and magazines cannot hold more than 10 rounds of ammunition.

The state considers any semi-automatic, centerfire rifle to be an “assault” weapon if it has any of the following:

   No fixed magazine
   Pistol grips (beneath action or forward, second handgrip)
   Thumbhole stock
   Adjustable stock
   Grenade launcher or flare launcher
   Threaded barrel
   Flash suppressor
   Bayonet mount
   Magazine that accepts more than 10 rounds
   Muzzle brake or compensator


So with the plastic plug driving in place over the allen bolt on the mag lock once installed, the only way to remove the plug would require drilling the plug out (machining, like that of a FS that its bind pin has been welded over in place).

As for rifle, you end up with something that looks like this,
https://atlantic-firearms-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/media/detail_product_main/product/rad3504arny-1-of-10-jpg.jpg

Or butt stock like this,
https://www.gunsamerica.com/userimages/5133/909125005/wm_6157464.jpg



Note, even the HK SL-8 is an outlawed weapon in NY, due to do it single stack 10 round removable mag, and its thumb hole stock, although the rifle was imported into the states as a Target rifle from the start during even the federal assault rifles ban.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/H%26K-SL8.jpg
View Quote


Got it!  I spoke with DSI before I read this and they said the same thing and that's why they use the Pmags so you can drop the base plate.  Looks like I'm keeping her as is until I'm out of NY
Link Posted: 3/21/2021 11:14:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Clearing a double feed

Easy to clear a double feed.  Just relieve the spring tension in the mag.  I guess it would be the same as popping off the baseplate of a normal mag.
Link Posted: 3/22/2021 12:39:10 PM EDT
[#18]
I have a couple of the worst lowers for clearing double feeds - the Fab 10.  This was an early version of a California legal AR15, before there were bullet buttons, fin grips, and such.  The blind mag well had a 10 round internal mag riveted into place.

The first versions didn't have a bolt lock back, which made them even worse for clearing.  The double feed always seemed to happen right before the RO blew the cold range whistle, so we'd get to struggle with it while everyone watched.  That took the fun out of ARs for a while.

Fab 10's quality control and customer support was some of the worst I've experienced; both of mine had manufacturing flaws, and I gave up trying to get them to make it right.

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