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Posted: 1/6/2021 4:25:56 AM EST
A few months back I built a PSA PA-15, my first build, and I just can't seem to become sentimentally attached to it the way I am with the "pre-rolled" guns I own from S&W, Sig, etc. I think I need a proper unboxing experience and I want to buy something with long term heirloom value to it within a $2,000 price point. I don't have much of a practical use for it since I'm not a competition shooter, never really shoot from a bench, and usually keep targets within 100 yards or so due to limited shooting areas where I live...though I suppose if angry mobs are marching down my street it may be more than a novelty then. My main goal though it to go for an authentic, cool factor, within my price point. A "you be the judge" kind of rifle (hopefully someone gets that reference).

Looking at both the Colt CR6920 and the FN "MC" M4/M16. I searched the forum and it seems like the general consensus here is that the criticism involving the CR6920 is a bit far fetched (I saw someone share the review from MAC). By that same token, there are those who say FN has surpassed Colt in terms of fit and finish. Yet still, some say FN's commercial products are sub-par compared to TDP products. Makes it pretty difficult for a newbie to decide here.

Without bringing brand wars in, do you guys think both of these are pretty much on par with each other? Has Colt "empire" fallen and lost it's quality touch making a CR6920 a "Colt-elect" as I've seen in YouTube comments? Is FN selling poor quality 4140 barreled rifles at a massively unreasonable price in the Military Collector series?

Please cut me some slack here guys I only own a basic home built PA-15 and S&W, Sig, and Ruger firearms so I have no brand preference. I've seen just about every gun ever get bashed somewhere online and I'm just looking for an objective assessment of these products in 2021 and possibly a little buyer's advice!
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 7:34:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By LowLead:
A few months back I built a PSA PA-15, my first build, and I just can't seem to become sentimentally attached to it the way I am with the "pre-rolled" guns I own from S&W, Sig, etc. I think I need a proper unboxing experience and I want to buy something with long term heirloom value to it within a $2,000 price point. I don't have much of a practical use for it since I'm not a competition shooter, never really shoot from a bench, and usually keep targets within 100 yards or so due to limited shooting areas where I live...though I suppose if angry mobs are marching down my street it may be more than a novelty then. My main goal though it to go for an authentic, cool factor, within my price point. A "you be the judge" kind of rifle (hopefully someone gets that reference).

Looking at both the Colt CR6920 and the FN "MC" M4/M16. I searched the forum and it seems like the general consensus here is that the criticism involving the CR6920 is a bit far fetched (I saw someone share the review from MAC). By that same token, there are those who say FN has surpassed Colt in terms of fit and finish. Yet still, some say FN's commercial products are sub-par compared to TDP products. Makes it pretty difficult for a newbie to decide here.

Without bringing brand wars in, do you guys think both of these are pretty much on par with each other? Has Colt "empire" fallen and lost it's quality touch making a CR6920 a "Colt-elect" as I've seen in YouTube comments? Is FN selling poor quality 4140 barreled rifles at a massively unreasonable price in the Military Collector series?

Please cut me some slack here guys I only own a basic home built PA-15 and S&W, Sig, and Ruger firearms so I have no brand preference. I've seen just about every gun ever get bashed somewhere online and I'm just looking for an objective assessment of these products in 2021 and possibly a little buyer's advice!
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I maybe mistaken but aren't FN MC barrels CHF and chrome lined? You can't go wrong with either FN nor Colt. Both are the most battle proven AR/M4 platforms out there.

I tend to completely disregard claims about Colt. We get a thread related to the subject of "has Colt lost it's quality" probably every week. The fact of the matter is there are tons of regurgitated claims across the internet but never any proof or validation.

My personal heirlooms are the two clone correct block2 SOCOMs builds I have that use both Colt and FN GI parts. Neither one can be bought off a shelf and are true as legally possible to the actual historic SF weapon. One even having a issued/surplus barrel and receiver. It all depends on how cool and authentic you want it to be.

With that being said I like the FN15 package and would probably go that route if I wasn't a builder but would be happy with either
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 7:42:02 AM EST
You can’t go wrong with Colt.  Your price point could get you into some different models which may serve better as “heirloom” status.  You will have to look in the secondary market for some but can still get NIB at that price range.

In no order.

6720
AR15A4 20”
LE6920
LE6940 or the new CR6940
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 8:12:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2021 8:16:21 AM EST by LowLead]
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Originally Posted By oxford411:
AR15A4 20”
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Originally Posted By oxford411:
AR15A4 20”


I've been trying to keep an eye out for something like this, that way I can say "actually, yes, it is an AR15, and no I'm not misusing the model name" . There's a used one on Gun Broker right now for $3,350 with an ACOG on it which doesn't quite fit my needs though unfortunately. If Colt has stopped making them do you really feel like they'll sell NIB for 2K? I'll keep my eyes peeled for sure.

Originally Posted By GHOS7:
I maybe mistaken but aren't FN MC barrels CHF and chrome lined?


The downloadable product manual from the website says button broached chrome lined 4140. I don't know enough about barrels to know if that means they have the potential to also be CHF, but from what I've read they're not since that wouldn't be true to mil-spec despite other strange inconsistencies like a 6 position M4 stock...?
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 8:20:48 AM EST
A 6920 is is always a good bet.  

Quality, IME, is exactly the same as it has been in the 20 years I’ve been paying attention.  

I have a bunch of ARs and all but one are complete Colts, the Blacksheep is a BCM.  No issues with any of them.

Link Posted: 1/6/2021 9:28:26 AM EST
I bought a CR6920 about a month ago and am quite happy with the fit, finish and quality.  I'd say it's just like the Colts of the past.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 9:39:46 AM EST
Colt is fine and people will always recognize the brand over others like FN.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 9:48:51 AM EST
Colt fanboy here..

Get the cheaper one. Both will serve you extremely well.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 9:59:48 AM EST
Colt
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 12:18:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By LowLead:
unboxing experience and I want to buy something with long term heirloom value!
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Colt.

But, in this day and time I wonder if any AR is the gun you seek with recent events
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 1:09:51 PM EST
I like FN, and I think their rifles are good quality, but in my opinion, you're paying a few extra hundred dollars for the Military Collector version. I think it's comparable to a Colt rifle but comes with a price increase because of the "collector" nature of the rifle (unless you've found one that's discounted). For example, disregarding street price for a moment, Colt lists the MSRP for the 6920 as $1099, while the FN Military Collector M4 is $1749. Similar rifles in terms of configuration and quality, but even given that the FN M4 includes a KAC railed handguard, the FN price is about $400 higher .
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 4:38:00 PM EST
I just went through the same dilemma and happily (in retrospect) chose a CR6920. In todays crazy world there are still realistic decent prices on Gunbroker, and the fit and finish itself is excellent. It is the same exact LE Carbine with the new rollmarks. I have researched and read that the civilian issue FN15 units are not related to their military cousins in build quality and content, although that could be internet speak. You wont go wrong with a 6920. If you really want to get something special, find a NOS Colt SOCOM with the pinned 14.5 barrel, there is a couple on GB.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 4:44:34 PM EST
If the FN is built to current military specifications then it’s BARREL IS NOT COLD HAMMER FORGED.

Mil Spec TDP clearly and specifically calls for button rifled barrels.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 8:30:48 PM EST
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Originally Posted By NTXGlocker:


Colt.

But, in this day and time I wonder if any AR is the gun you seek with recent events
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No kidding...

Thanks everyone. It'll probably be a last minute decision still. For what it's worth I tried emailing Chris Bartocci on the matter since he seems to be the YouTube Colt expert and had some negative CR6920 things to say...but I got a message back saying a reply comes with a price. Wasn't exactly up for paying to email a person.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 9:57:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LowLead:


No kidding...

Thanks everyone. It'll probably be a last minute decision still. For what it's worth I tried emailing Chris Bartocci on the matter since he seems to be the YouTube Colt expert and had some negative CR6920 things to say...but I got a message back saying a reply comes with a price. Wasn't exactly up for paying to email a person.
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I would still get the Colt regardless of what Bartocci says.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 11:31:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2021 11:54:25 PM EST by JoshNC]
I would buy the Colt CR6920. FN is nice too. I just like Colt better of the two.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LowLead:


No kidding...

Thanks everyone. It'll probably be a last minute decision still. For what it's worth I tried emailing Chris Bartocci on the matter since he seems to be the YouTube Colt expert and had some negative CR6920 things to say...but I got a message back saying a reply comes with a price. Wasn't exactly up for paying to email a person.
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Hahahahaha. What a douchey email reply.
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 6:07:08 PM EST
Colt outsourcing is nothing new and does not have effect on the quality of the rifle. Even my uncle’s SP1 from the 80s has a Green Mountain barrel and non C marked carrier.
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 6:38:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By samuse:
A 6920 is is always a good bet.  

Quality, IME, is exactly the same as it has been in the 20 years I’ve been paying attention.  

I have a bunch of ARs and all but one are complete Colts, the Blacksheep is a BCM.  No issues with any of them.

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I need a factory colt.

Link Posted: 1/7/2021 8:35:38 PM EST
I bought a Colt Cr6920 several months ago. It is very nice indeed, with no problems or failures so far, and compares very favorable with my other carbine AR's.
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 9:38:15 PM EST
Happy to hear there aren’t many complaints with the new CR6920. I do want to get in touch with FN to ask them a few technical questions. They’re advertising the MC series as being in exact M4 config (with 14.7” barrel) but the operation manuals I have disagree with the 6 position telescopic stock. I’d also like to hear more about the BCG. I do like that they come with the KAC RAS and broom handle since that’s the look I’m going for. I’m also hearing they are coming with a CAR buffer instead of an H buffer which shouldn’t matter, but again, doesn’t sound “mil-spec”.

Still undecided I need more CR6920 hands on videos!
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 6:15:54 AM EST
Tag for later reply.

CD
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 7:38:45 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Speedwinder:
I bought a Colt Cr6920 several months ago. It is very nice indeed, with no problems or failures so far, and compares very favorable with my other carbine AR's.
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Same. Now have over 600 rounds through it since October with zero hiccups. Added a Aimpoint PRO and some Magpul MOE furniture. Getting 0.75" groups at 50 yards and I suck so plenty accurate for me.
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 7:47:26 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2021 7:47:55 AM EST by EnduroBro]
One day I hope to be in the new elite club known as FN when it takes over colts name.  My FN15 is better than my 6920 in fit and finish.  YOU CANNOT GO WRONG WITH EITHER OPTION.
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 7:48:51 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2021 7:49:23 AM EST by Combat_Diver]
After watching MAC's recent video on the CR6920, you're wasting your time paying for an email.  Only thing that isn't milspec per se due to the NFA is the 16" vs 14.5", fire control group and markings.  Don't remember if it had a 6 position receiver extension (buffer tube).  4 pos is milspec on issued guns.  Don't believe any companies provide that as its more versatile with a 6.  

CAR buffers were the standard for decades on a 16" gun.  Milspec for a 14.5" is a H for the first 15 yrs in service then switched to a H2 for the last 10 yrs or so.


What is wrong with your build?


CD

Link Posted: 1/8/2021 5:14:32 PM EST
Hey CD! Thank you for your service and the info. Nothing is really wrong with my build. I’m just really weird and like to have personal connections to the guns that I own. My M77 was passed down to me from my dad, my M&P was the first gun I ever bought when I turned 21...

My homebrew AR build on the other hand had out of spec parts that needed to be replaced, a delta ring that was scratched up trying to replace the hand guards etc...before long it looked like it had been overseas before even chambering a round due to my lack of build experience and for that reason it feels sorta like a red headed stepchild

I feel like I’d enjoy fondling an assembly line complete Colt or FN more knowing guys like you fought for my freedom with one of them. Probably plays into my clone correct “ish” desire. And maybe poor spending habits on guns and ammo has something to do with it.
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 8:34:35 PM EST
Gonna be honest, I work at a gunshop and have seen/shot many ARs. If you’re not big into guns but want a good rifle for home defense, sell all of the extra ARs you have lying around, and use the money to upgrade to one high quality rifle. I’m talking KAC LMT DD or BCM. Colt is not nearly what it used to be, but FN is a good manufacturer. They make a tactical carbine that seems like a decent gun (haven’t shot enough rounds to formulate a solid opinion). This method will clear out the guns you don’t shoot, and leave you with a gun that gives you a peace of mind that few brands can reach.

Also, be sure to checkout your LGS, there are deals to be had. We put out a tactical carbine for 1299 with a free float mlok rail, B5 stock (or magpul, I can’t remember), and hammer forged chrome lined barrel. In today’s market, that’s a good price for a gun from a reliable company.
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 8:08:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/9/2021 8:11:07 PM EST by oxford411]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 0311mattp: but want a good rifle for home defense...........upgrade to one high quality rifle. I’m talking KAC LMT DD or BCM. Colt is not nearly what it used to be............:and leave you with a gun that gives you a peace of mind that few brands can reach.
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I’m curious as to what you think is wrong with the Colt that wouldn’t give you the peace of mind the others you mentioned do having it next to the bed for home defense?

And what exactly did it used to be that it isn’t now?
Link Posted: 1/9/2021 10:52:20 PM EST
Still waiting for someone to definitively demonstrate how Colt quality has declined.....

As for Chris and his "pay to play" mentality, not sure why anyone would be surprised at that. He's a paid "influencer"...
Link Posted: 1/10/2021 1:11:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/10/2021 8:59:02 AM EST by FlyingMailman]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 0311mattp:
Gonna be honest, I work at a gunshop and have seen/shot many ARs. If you’re not big into guns but want a good rifle for home defense, sell all of the extra ARs you have lying around, and use the money to upgrade to one high quality rifle. I’m talking KAC LMT DD or BCM. Colt is not nearly what it used to be, but FN is a good manufacturer. They make a tactical carbine that seems like a decent gun (haven’t shot enough rounds to formulate a solid opinion). This method will clear out the guns you don’t shoot, and leave you with a gun that gives you a peace of mind that few brands can reach.

Also, be sure to checkout your LGS, there are deals to be had. We put out a tactical carbine for 1299 with a free float mlok rail, B5 stock (or magpul, I can’t remember), and hammer forged chrome lined barrel. In today’s market, that’s a good price for a gun from a reliable company.
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I have to respectfully disagree (to an extent). I have Colts from the old days to more recent production, and they all seem about the same to me. Likewise, I also work at a gun shop and all the Colts that've come through seem consistently well-built to the spec. I've actually owned a couple of DD's and was not at all impressed, plus there's little things about it that are not that great. For instance, they do a pretty pathetic castle nut staking job (just a small circular punch), and only in one spot. The castle nuts are also different from a proper one, as the little divots that the end plate gets staked into are shallower and more circular. Anecdotally I've had one customer take their new DD to a class, and the castle nut came loose. The castle nuts on Colts are without exception very aggressively staked in 2 places. I understand that perhaps DD doesn't stake to the spec because people might want to change their end plate, but for a "serious use" rifle out of the box I'd rather have it be fully staked in two places as is proper.

More concerning to me is that every single DD that's come through the shop in the last couple of years has had the pivot pin holes dremeled out through the anodizing to bare aluminum to ensure a virgin-tight fit between the upper and lower. DD states that they intentionally undersize the holes and then dremel them out just enough to take the pivot pin. I think sometimes people forget that a little bit of play is acceptable and even desirable when it comes to a military-grade weapon. Even SAN in Switzerland intentionally builds in a little bit of play in their rifles for this reason. It helps ensure parts find their groove with each other and gives an out for dirt and debris. I say it's concerning because my DD M4A1 started peening out the pivot pin holes within 1000 rounds. I have no doubt that a steel pin recoiling against bare aluminum had something to with that.

Basically, I don't see DD as being more durable/reliable than a Colt, except that the CHF barrel theoretically would last longer but I don't consider that to make the weapon better suited for self defense. Other than that, Colts seem more consistently built to me. The markings may not always be consistent, but one thing with the Colts is that you know they'll always go bang when you pull the trigger.

I also owned a DD midlength that did not at all cycle reliably with .223 pressure ammo. I understand they're meant for full power military ammo, but in the civilian world (especially right now), I need my rifle to run whatever I can get; though I draw the line at steel case Likewise, BCM recommends only using full power 5.56 in their midlengths (Especially the 14.5's) for the same reasons.

I owned BCMs and DDs, and I ended up selling them off and just keeping my Colts.

I was not at all impressed with the accuracy of my BCMs, and their barrels are well known for being mediocre at best. I also seem to remember about a year ago there were a couple of instances of BCM barrels burning out in carbine classes very quickly. Then there was the "Serious trigger puller" debacle with the unacceptably poorly machined BCGs.

I can't speak much on LMTs, but I also remember a spat of QC issues come from them over the last few years, and people lost their minds when they went to a MIM gas key. KAC uses MIM safety selectors which they admit are inferior and have been shown to be prone to breakages. KAC also seems a bit more picky on ammo choices, and maybe I'm stuck in the past but I prefer my gas blocks drilled and pinned, not threaded as KAC does now. I'm sure they're just fine, but I've seen too many non drilled/pinned gas blocks ride forward in rapid fire to really feel comfortable with them. Again, that's just a me thing. Also anecdotally, my friend's 14.5" KAC would not run anything but full power M855/M193, where as every Colt 6920 I've fired literally doesn't care what you put in it, even crappy steel case (though I don't really shoot steel case). There's also something less tangible about the Colts. The bolt travel on mine are noticeably smoother than the BCMs I had, and the internals always seem well polished and machined.

Overall I think the Colt is one of those high quality rifles, certainly compared to more economy-level brands like Del-Ton/Radical/PSA/etc. I do agree with you that it'd be better for OP (or whoever) to sell off the budget ARs to get one good dependable high quality one, but I think Colt fits that bill quite nicely. OP would be much better off getting a 6920 and spending the rest of the money he would've spent on a KAC on mags, a red dot, sling, and maybe a good flashlight. And, of course, ammo, but prices for that are truly out of sight right now.
Link Posted: 1/10/2021 9:09:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:
Still waiting for someone to definitively demonstrate how Colt quality has declined.....

As for Chris and his "pay to play" mentality, not sure why anyone would be surprised at that. He's a paid "influencer"...
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QFT
Link Posted: 1/10/2021 11:23:09 AM EST
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Originally Posted By FlyingMailman:

I do agree with you that it'd be better for OP (or whoever) to sell off the budget ARs to get one good dependable high quality one.
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Originally Posted By FlyingMailman:
Originally Posted By 0311mattp:
sell all of the extra ARs you have lying around, and use the money to upgrade to one high quality rifle.

I do agree with you that it'd be better for OP (or whoever) to sell off the budget ARs to get one good dependable high quality one.


OP has a budget of $2,000, he can certainly get a good quality dependable rifle for that without having to sell anything.
Link Posted: 1/10/2021 1:41:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By oxford411:


OP has a budget of $2,000, he can certainly get a good quality dependable rifle for that without having to sell anything.
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That's true. If OP can afford to keep what he has and also get a Colt 6920, that'd be the best option. Always good to have a trainer/backup.
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 3:01:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/12/2021 3:03:49 PM EST by LowLead]
Here’s one for the Google search archives since I was not able to find this information anywhere online.

Called up FN to ask about the bolt and barrel. The official bolt and barrel steel being used according to the FN technical question department is:

“Designated per the mil-spec”.

Would not provide any more detail than that.

I was watching a 6920 SOCOM that’s had its price shoot up to $3,000. Thought maybe I could still get away with sub 2k and come out on the other side with a heavy barrel, KAC rail, broom handle, and Matech. If only FN knew what parts they were using.
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 8:16:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LowLead:
Here’s one for the Google search archives since I was not able to find this information anywhere online.

Called up FN to ask about the bolt and barrel. The official bolt and barrel steel being used according to the FN technical question department is:

“Designated per the mil-spec”.

Would not provide any more detail than that.

I was watching a 6920 SOCOM that’s had its price shoot up to $3,000. Thought maybe I could still get away with sub 2k and come out on the other side with a heavy barrel, KAC rail, broom handle, and Matech. If only FN knew what parts they were using.
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IIRC FN uses 6000 series aluminum for their M16A4 Military Collector, rather than the proper 7075T6. They are likewise known to be a bit secretive about other specs as you mention. I suspect there's some of that going on in the FN M4A1 commercial version. "Mil Spec" can mean a lot of things other than something that would actually meet the TDP. FN is not allowed to use the TDP for their ARs, and what you get is nothing like what comes off their military production line. With Colt, even if it's "outsourced" (as Colt has done in varying capacities for decades, even in military rifles), it is made to their drawings.
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 8:44:44 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LowLead:


I was watching a 6920 SOCOM that’s had its price shoot up to $3,000. Thought maybe I could still get away with sub 2k and come out on the other side with a heavy barrel, KAC rail, broom handle, and Matech. If only FN knew what parts they were using.
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You will be extremely lucky if you find a socom for under 2k, especially online.  

May score one at a LGS or individual sale if the person isn’t up on values.
Link Posted: 1/12/2021 10:14:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By oxford411:


You will be extremely lucky if you find a socom for under 2k, especially online.  

May score one at a LGS or individual sale if the person isn’t up on values.
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If I remember right, even while Colt was producing a good number of the SOCOMs, they were still going for like $1500 at best and most closer to $2k or over. I don't think we'll ever see them for below $2k again. I'm not sure why Colt has stopped producing those. They were selling like hotcakes and were exactly what customers were asking for.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 4:41:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 5:00:31 AM EST by 77Bronc]
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Originally Posted By sentionaut:

I would still get the Colt regardless of what Bartocci says.
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I am really questioning his span of knowledgel, I watched his January 5, 2021 QA session and a viewer asked his thoughts on TRIARC rifles and he said he never heard of them, he lives in Texas and so does TRIARC!!!!   This is the second time he was asked that question IIRC, asked last year and had the same answer.

Not saying that TRIARC is as well known as others, but if you make your living knowing the gun world around you, seems you would know at least companies in your home state

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 11:42:19 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 77Bronc:


I am really questioning his span of knowledgel, I watched his January 5, 2021 QA session and a viewer asked his thoughts on TRIARC rifles and he said he never heard of them, he lives in Texas and so does TRIARC!!!!   This is the second time he was asked that question IIRC, asked last year and had the same answer.

Not saying that TRIARC is as well known as others, but if you make your living knowing the gun world around you, seems you would know at least companies in your home state

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Originally Posted By 77Bronc:
Originally Posted By sentionaut:

I would still get the Colt regardless of what Bartocci says.


I am really questioning his span of knowledgel, I watched his January 5, 2021 QA session and a viewer asked his thoughts on TRIARC rifles and he said he never heard of them, he lives in Texas and so does TRIARC!!!!   This is the second time he was asked that question IIRC, asked last year and had the same answer.

Not saying that TRIARC is as well known as others, but if you make your living knowing the gun world around you, seems you would know at least companies in your home state


Probably haven't sent him a check yet.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 12:51:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By FlyingMailman:
If I remember right, even while Colt was producing a good number of the SOCOMs, they were still going for like $1500 at best and most closer to $2k or over. I don't think we'll ever see them for below $2k again. I'm not sure why Colt has stopped producing those. They were selling like hotcakes and were exactly what customers were asking for.
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Hopefully the CZ takeover will result in some better analysis of the commercial market and a little more catering towards what civilian customers want. Clone rollmarks on normal production rifles (as opposed to outsourced retro rifles) and selector stops would be nice to see.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 9:21:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 9:24:12 PM EST by FlyingMailman]
Question is, would this CZ-owned Colt still be the same military contractor Colt with commercial rifle components coming off the same lines as gov't rifle components (even if outsourced and finished/assembled at Colt) that makes them so desirable?

If Colt would just exploit their main advantage over all the others, which is being a military contractor with the ability to make rifles as close to the TDP as they want within NFA rules and mark them as close to military rifles as possible (like with they did with the M4A1 SOCOM), or even just a very close approximation still made with all the proper materials like the Colt AR15A4 20" (it seems all other 20" M16-style AR manufacturers have cheapened out on certain rifle-specific parts like buffer tubes), and had any kind of marketing whatsoever, they would sell like hotcakes, especially now.

I know the TDP isn't the end all be all and most don't care about it anymore, but it's still damn good and proven. Personally, I'm not a fan of the trends civilian ARs have taken today. I'm more interested in military-type configurations.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:15:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2021 9:16:41 PM EST by LowLead]
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Originally Posted By FlyingMailman:
I know the TDP isn't the end all be all and most don't care about it anymore, but it's still damn good and proven. Personally, I'm not a fan of the trends civilian ARs have taken today. I'm more interested in military-type configurations.
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Same here! It’s a 1960s rifle. At least preserve some of its original style. A telescopic stock I can understand for smaller shooters. A chopped barrel to make it a little shorter, ok. But we start getting into the race car style markings, fluted barrels, and the Daniel Defense alligator skin textured furniture and it just looks so wrong to me.

Even free floating. Only time I’m shooting paper is to zero, otherwise I’m just plinking, and other than special rifle ranges, I can’t see myself needing to push my primary gun beyond 200 yards...let alone having a continuous line of sight with that distance in my neck of the woods.

Rather than bringing an old workhorse into the 21st century, I’d rather just buy a 21st century gun like an X95. I like leaving ARs retro which is why I’ve ruled out DD/Sig etc.
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 3:08:45 PM EST
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Originally Posted By LowLead:


Same here! It’s a 1960s rifle. At least preserve some of its original style. A telescopic stock I can understand for smaller shooters. A chopped barrel to make it a little shorter, ok. But we start getting into the race car style markings, fluted barrels, and the Daniel Defense alligator skin textured furniture and it just looks so wrong to me.

Even free floating. Only time I’m shooting paper is to zero, otherwise I’m just plinking, and other than special rifle ranges, I can’t see myself needing to push my primary gun beyond 200 yards...let alone having a continuous line of sight with that distance in my neck of the woods.

Rather than bringing an old workhorse into the 21st century, I’d rather just buy a 21st century gun like an X95. I like leaving ARs retro which is why I’ve ruled out DD/Sig etc.
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It's why after owning DD's, BCM's, etc I've settled on just keeping my Colts in pretty standard form. I still use either KAC RAS or even just basic plastic handguards, and I even prefer a (gasp) fixed FSB. I've never been able to get into the paper thin Mlok free float handguards that go to the end of the barrel as is popular today. KAC quad rails are bomb proof, take heat well, and I never noticed a difference in accuracy between it and the free float ARs I've since sold. Then again, I likewise don't really use any of my ARs past 200 yards, and if I'm going farther than 300 yards, I'd prefer one of my larger caliber rifles. In any realistic "SHTF" or defensive scenario, if the source of danger is 300 or more yards away, I'm just going to duck out of there.
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 3:34:42 PM EST
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Originally Posted By FlyingMailman:

It's why after owning DD's, BCM's, etc I've settled on just keeping my Colts in pretty standard form. I still use either KAC RAS or even just basic plastic handguards, and I even prefer a (gasp) fixed FSB. I've never been able to get into the paper thin Mlok free float handguards that go to the end of the barrel as is popular today. KAC quad rails are bomb proof, take heat well, and I never noticed a difference in accuracy between it and the free float ARs I've since sold. Then again, I likewise don't really use any of my ARs past 200 yards, and if I'm going farther than 300 yards, I'd prefer one of my larger caliber rifles. In any realistic "SHTF" or defensive scenario, if the source of danger is 300 or more yards away, I'm just going to duck out of there.
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At first, after reading your post I thought it was one I had wrote lol.
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 3:00:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By OTDR:



At first, after reading your post I thought it was one I had wrote lol.
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Lol. Fortunately I think people are coming back around to a "back to the basics" AR.
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