User Panel
Posted: 12/19/2019 12:38:53 AM EDT
How good are the FN hammer forged barrels? I’m looking for a 1 MOA or better barrel and have the chance to pick up a new one for a great price, I know FN makes them for Spikes and have heard both good and bad, how are FN branded ones, say compared to Daniel Defense barrels?
Thanks |
|
I have a 16" mid length Palmetto State Armory lightweight barrel made by FN.
Unfortunately it is not live up to my accuracy standards. I got about 3" groups at 100 yds with my hand loads that typically print under one inch. |
|
Quoted:
I have a 16" mid length Palmetto State Armory lightweight barrel made by FN. Unfortunately it is not live up to my accuracy standards. I got about 3" groups at 100 yds with my hand loads that typically print under one inch. View Quote |
|
You may get close to 1 moa IF everything else is perfect. 1.5 is more likely at best.
You would be much better served with some like a Bergara Recon barrel, maybe a bison armory barrel. Don’t get me wrong I love CHF barrels but if 1 moa or less is your goal you’d be better of with a thicker profile. |
|
|
For this build stainless is not desirable. I would like to know how FN stacks up against DD’s CHF barrels?
|
|
Quoted:
For this build stainless is not desirable. I would like to know how FN stacks up against DD’s CHF barrels? View Quote Put it this way..theres a reason why Spikes, Centurion, Hodge Defense and others choose FN and not dd to supply CHF/CL barrels. FN is the standard. Look at the performance Mr.GunsNGear gets out of this FN barreled Centurion Arms rifle.. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3myEt3jGc-U |
|
If you’re looking for MOA or better, go with Criterion. DD would be my second choice.
FN is a good barrel, but odds are against you for an MOA barrel. |
|
|
Centurion has fn taper there bore , does fn do this to there barrels
|
|
|
The DD will probably be more accurate, unless you go with the Centurion version of the FN barrel, which will be about equal.
|
|
IMHO, both are excellent choices.. but while CHF and CL'ing has come a long way, there isn't a way to "guarantee" 1 moa from those choices....To many variables involved.
And you might get lucky with a CHF CL barrel... I have had very good results from PSA uppers with FN barrels. I would be more comfortable skipping the CHF requirement, and buying a Criterion CL... especially if you are looking for 1 moa "guarantee" . Or, I would buy either the FN or DD , and try to see which ammo the barrel prefers. And , first time I had heard FN tapers some bores.. very interesting. |
|
I'm not so sure that an "FN barrel" is an "FN barrel".
I would think that machining/specs are to customer spec more than some think. Of course, I have zero data showing this. Curious of anybody has any real info.... |
|
Very good points here. Hammer forged is not a requirement it just seems that hammer forged barrels tend to be a little more accurate. I already have two stainless as well as regular cl barrels on rifles, I have a Daniel 14.5” that is dead nuts accurate and with reloads for that barrel will shoot at and if I really do my part will shoot slightly under that. This build here I want to do a 16” mid action, I want it chrome lined as it’s going to be a truck gun, coyote gun, sort of a do all, as well as be used for letting friends shoot it and I want it to be able to take the mag dumps that happen when your showing others how these are not weapons of death or so called assault rifles. Does this make sense?
Thank you for all the great replies. |
|
Quoted:
I'm not so sure that an "FN barrel" is an "FN barrel". I would think that machining/specs are to customer spec more than some think. Of course, I have zero data showing this. Curious of anybody has any real info.... View Quote |
|
Quoted: I can’t speak for customer specs, but having toured the factory, I do not believe there is a lot of variation in quality of product being delivered. Their QC is arguably the best in the business... kinda like the Toyota of the firearms industry. View Quote |
|
Interesting article HERE.
Monty mentions how FN CHF bbls have a "tapered bore in the last portion". So, do ALL FN CHF bbls have this taper? Hodge and Centurion use it, is it customer spec or across the board? |
|
Ive been searching and as far as i can tell with my shitty google fu is that centurion and hodge are the only two companies using fn's tapered bore. That article was very intresting
|
|
Quoted:
Ive been searching and as far as i can tell with my shitty google fu is that centurion and hodge are the only two companies using fn's tapered bore. That article was very intresting View Quote "I was given a link so I figured I’d come over and respond. Looks like you guys pretty much have the concept. The bore gets slightly smaller as it moves to the muzzle end of the barrel. I did not come up with the concept and it is not new. So why have you not seen taper bores in the AR platform before?? Probably because using hammer forged barrels is a fairly new thing in the AR rifles. Taper bore is something that is only realistically done by the hammer forging process. The mandrel that is used to put the rifling in the barrel is slightly tapered and this leave the tapered dimension in the barrels as the forging machine beats the blank around the mandrel. So what does it offer you? Taper bore gives you a slight boost in velocity over a non-taper bore barrel and it help negate any potential accuracy issues caused by chroming the bore since it is not always a consistent thickness. Taper bore does not extend the life of the barrel our barrels last longer because they are hammer forged and made from a different spec material that was engineered for machine guns. Hammer forging work hardens the material and the chrome is thicker than a normal barrel. The barrel steel is the same used on the MAG58, 240, M249, MK46, and MK48 machine guns it is also the same barrel material and process used on the 1/2moa sniper rifles FN won the FBI contract with and that are still in service. The FN SPR sniper rifles use hammer forged hard chrome lined taper bore barrels to get ½ moa accuracy and this is the same barrel specs and processes I have done to my barrels. So who else uses this? Obviously FN, who has the time, money, and resources to do the research to find this type of barrel steel and proof out this type of process and specs. FN hands down manufactures the best machine guns in the world and there isn’t even a close second in this field there isn’t even any two companies you can combine that has as much institutional knowledge as they do in making beltfed machine guns. HK also taper bores their hammer forged barrels for all their rifles. So why do I use it? Well I didn’t really think much about hammer forging and taper bore before I was sent to work doing combat systems development and operational testing for SOCOM. There I worked on several weapons programs one that used these barrels on one of the rifles we were testing. I got to observes millions of dollars worth of R&D and testing that was done and got to see hundreds of thousands of rounds run through these weapons and got to see firsthand that these barrels did indeed last allot longer and on a whole shoot better than standard button rifled barrels that were chrome lined. The difference was significant and I wondered why the hell no one made these barrels for the M4/AR rifles so I figured I would bring them to market myself. I have over 20 years of service and have shot out plenty of M4’s in my time and can with full confidence say this is a improvement I’ve seen it first hand. Thanks Monty" LINK |
|
|
It does make sense for the mandrels to be tapered to facilitate removal after forging/forming. Similar to the draft angle on castings.
|
|
|
Just got a new centurion 12.5 barrel , hopefully sight in this week weather and xmas permitting, ill shoot some groups and post em up
|
|
Now this makes sense, back when Geissele started using Daniel Defense barrels for his URG1 uppers, Bill Geissele made the remark that they had like a secret sauce in their metal as they had better ballistics than conventional barrels, he made it sound like it was the materials they were made from. He had everyone wondering if DD had some special coating they used for their military barrels, when in fact it was the rifling process itself.
|
|
" FN AR15 barrels are hammer forged using the same proprietary highgrade Chrome Moly Venadium steel used in FN’s venerable machinegun barrels produced to handle the punishment of sustained fully automatic fire."
"A proprietary blend of Hammer forged chrome molly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as “Machine Gun Steel” by virtue of its required use in FN’s M249 and M240 weapons." It's in the steel blend. |
|
Quoted:
" FN AR15 barrels are hammer forged using the same proprietary highgrade Chrome Moly Venadium steel used in FN’s venerable machinegun barrels produced to handle the punishment of sustained fully automatic fire." "A proprietary blend of Hammer forged chrome molly vanadium made by FN that is referred to as “Machine Gun Steel” by virtue of its required use in FN’s M249 and M240 weapons." It's in the steel blend. View Quote ETA, I’m going to look for a FN branded or Spikes/Centurion/PSA CHF barrel now. Thanks I have learned a few things here for sure. |
|
I'd go with the DD since I've always had good luck using them, but it's going to be a crap-shoot with any CL barrel to get 1MOA or better.
|
|
Quoted:
According to FN’s web site only certain modelAR’s have hammer forged barrels, most are standard button broached barrels. ETA, I’m going to look for a FN branded or Spikes/Centurian barrel now. Thanks I have learned a few things for sure. View Quote They (FN) are certainly capable of making exceptionally accurate (precise) CHF/CL barrels and have consistency in forging and probably more importantly chrome lining, down to a science. FN has the experience, barrel count (made/sold), legit military use world wide (multiple platforms over decades) and proven long term track record to claim the crown in CHF barrels. If a CHF barrel is what you want? There is no finer than FN produced. |
|
Quoted:
According to FN’s web site only certain modelAR’s have hammer forged barrels, most are standard button broached barrels. ETA, I’m going to look for a FN branded or Spikes/Centurion/PSA CHF barrel now. Thanks I have learned a few things here for sure. View Quote I've learned a bit on CHF bbls this week as well. |
|
|
|
FN sol some barrels that we called Mountain Series some years back. They were CHF, Double CL and came in 14.5, 16 and 18 inch. Research and numerous phone calls later , the steel used was a 41V45 blend. The barrel did an excellent job in 14.5 inch so I got a 16" and it was excellent also. I don't profess to be a MOA shooter but those that have shot the 14.5 to 300 yards keeps it in 1.5" groups and †he 16" is just as good if not better and this is with several different .62gr Military. Unfortunately all the military won't do that god but some will and we never blame it on the barrel.How long these barrels will last I do not know. We have run them on FA and went right back to grouping after a short cool down not that it had speed that much from FA.The barrels show very little if any wear but I have not used a bore scope on them. They are the best I have used and would like to have a few spares around but those I got are gone. FN told me it was a special run and don't know when or if they will make them again. I am happy I have mine.
|
|
Quoted:
FN sol some barrels that we called Mountain Series some years back. They were CHF, Double CL and came in 14.5, 16 and 18 inch. Research and numerous phone calls later , the steel used was a 41V45 blend. The barrel did an excellent job in 14.5 inch so I got a 16" and it was excellent also. I don't profess to be a MOA shooter but those that have shot the 14.5 to 300 yards keeps it in 1.5" groups and †he 16" is just as good if not better and this is with several different .62gr Military. Unfortunately all the military won't do that god but some will and we never blame it on the barrel.How long these barrels will last I do not know. We have run them on FA and went right back to grouping after a short cool down not that it had speed that much from FA.The barrels show very little if any wear but I have not used a bore scope on them. They are the best I have used and would like to have a few spares around but those I got are gone. FN told me it was a special run and don't know when or if they will make them again. I am happy I have mine. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
FN sol some barrels that we called Mountain Series some years back. They were CHF, Double CL and came in 14.5, 16 and 18 inch. Research and numerous phone calls later , the steel used was a 41V45 blend. The barrel did an excellent job in 14.5 inch so I got a 16" and it was excellent also. I don't profess to be a MOA shooter but those that have shot the 14.5 to 300 yards keeps it in 1.5" groups and †he 16" is just as good if not better and this is with several different .62gr Military. Unfortunately all the military won't do that god but some will and we never blame it on the barrel.How long these barrels will last I do not know. We have run them on FA and went right back to grouping after a short cool down not that it had speed that much from FA.The barrels show very little if any wear but I have not used a bore scope on them. They are the best I have used and would like to have a few spares around but those I got are gone. FN told me it was a special run and don't know when or if they will make them again. I am happy I have mine. View Quote |
|
Quoted: I have a hard time believing this no matter the barrel or shooter. 62 grain "military" loads at .5 MOA or better at 300 yards? Not impossible but definitely not probable or consistently repeatable. View Quote |
|
Well I bought a new in plastic FN CHF 16” mid action off the EE. I’m looking forward to seeing what it will do with match ammo? Thanks for all the insight and info, you made my decision easy.
|
|
|
I recently picked up one of the Spikes CHF Mid Length Optimal Contour barrels in 16".
It is showing a lot of promise. Haven't stretched it out yet, but it is a tack driver. Not cheap though. Grabbed it from PA when they had their 12% coupon recently. |
|
If I was looking for accuracy I'd go with a Bartlein- Single-Point Cut Rifled Barrel
Or just call White Oak Precision talk to them |
|
A buddy has a FN CHF 18" rifle gas that shoots under 1moa with 77gr
it did take a bit to find the right load it is "mil spec" in the accuracy department with mill spec ammo. |
|
All I know is my couple of CHF barrels (as well as a couple I have sold) shoot fantastic, thousands of rounds in and just as good as day one for me, all FN made too.
I’m always willing to try new stuff, but I know the FN barrels I have now will never be sold, traded, etc...I will do my best to shoot them out. |
|
|
Quoted:
I'm not so sure that an "FN barrel" is an "FN barrel". I would think that machining/specs are to customer spec more than some think. Of course, I have zero data showing this. Curious of anybody has any real info.... View Quote |
|
Quoted:
FN sol some barrels that we called Mountain Series some years back. They were CHF, Double CL and came in 14.5, 16 and 18 inch. Research and numerous phone calls later , the steel used was a 41V45 blend. The barrel did an excellent job in 14.5 inch so I got a 16" and it was excellent also. I don't profess to be a MOA shooter but those that have shot the 14.5 to 300 yards keeps it in 1.5" groups and he 16" is just as good if not better and this is with several different .62gr Military. Unfortunately all the military won't do that god but some will and we never blame it on the barrel.How long these barrels will last I do not know. We have run them on FA and went right back to grouping after a short cool down not that it had speed that much from FA.The barrels show very little if any wear but I have not used a bore scope on them. They are the best I have used and would like to have a few spares around but those I got are gone. FN told me it was a special run and don't know when or if they will make them again. I am happy I have mine. View Quote The 41V45 name has been bestowed by outside sources. Their steel is awesome and their chrome lining is awesome. Different brands of FN blanked barrels might have different chamber dimensions and vary slightly. But they all come from the same foundation. |
|
Quoted:
Please note FN uses milspec Machine Gun Steel. It is a proprietary alloy. They use it on all their cromoly barrels. It is the steel used in their 24x series rifle. All of their chrome lined barrels have an extra thick chrome lining that is about double thick than average barrels. The 41V45 name has been bestowed by outside sources. Their steel is awesome and their chrome lining is awesome. Different brands of FN blanked barrels might have different chamber dimensions and vary slightly. But they all come from the same foundation. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
The alloy formulation is just part of it. The processing and so forth also matter. Not all 41V45 barrels are the same. Also, not all chrome lining done by FN is the same. There are subtle but meaningful things various customers spec from FN. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Please note FN uses milspec Machine Gun Steel. It is a proprietary alloy. They use it on all their cromoly barrels. It is the steel used in their 24x series rifle. All of their chrome lined barrels have an extra thick chrome lining that is about double thick than average barrels. The 41V45 name has been bestowed by outside sources. Their steel is awesome and their chrome lining is awesome. Different brands of FN blanked barrels might have different chamber dimensions and vary slightly. But they all come from the same foundation. |
|
Quoted:
Please go on and elaborate specifics if you have them. I have spent plenty of time studying FN barrels. I am not sure what you are trying to suggest with your latest post. View Quote Further, there are other aspects of a barrel besides its chamber, and metallurgy, and profile that tolerances are specified for, which likely differ between, say, PSA, and Hodge. Barrel straightness, bore uniformity, thread concentricity, etc. are all things that matter a great deal for example. |
|
Quoted:
The Hodge barrel materials are FN's response to A&D GKH. Only Hodge uses this, at present, of which I am aware. Further, there are other aspects of a barrel besides its chamber, and metallurgy, and profile that tolerances are specified for, which likely differ between, say, PSA, and Hodge. Barrel straightness, bore uniformity, thread concentricity, etc. are all things that matter a great deal for example. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Please go on and elaborate specifics if you have them. I have spent plenty of time studying FN barrels. I am not sure what you are trying to suggest with your latest post. Further, there are other aspects of a barrel besides its chamber, and metallurgy, and profile that tolerances are specified for, which likely differ between, say, PSA, and Hodge. Barrel straightness, bore uniformity, thread concentricity, etc. are all things that matter a great deal for example. |
|
Last statement that I read from JH was that his bbls are "9310H Modified steel". Is this still the case?
Essentially a modification blend of FN's recipe. |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.