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Posted: 12/16/2020 5:57:54 PM EST
Picking up some defensive ammo for my sbr's. Would be used in a 11.5 and 10.5. Looking at speer gold dot 62gr or 75gr. I was thinking 62gr to squeeze a little volocity out of it? Also have a federal 62gr tactical bonded option.

Opinions?
Thanks
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 6:01:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/16/2020 6:16:18 PM EST by Dodge223]
Hornaday makes SBR ammo under the black label. I thinks it’s 77 grn. I would get some 77 smk and a flash can!

ETA: I think Lehigh defense has a CQB round with an aluminum tip for SBRs
Link Posted: 12/16/2020 6:33:19 PM EST
Either of those rounds you listed would perform great in an SBR.
I just recently bought some 64 gr Gold dot's and need to test them.
Other than that I've been using 77 gr OTM bullets but wanted to get some barrier blind bullets too.
Their website says the same for the 62 gr and the 75 gr bullets.
This is straight from Speer's website:
Self-defense rifle loads optimized for peak FBI protocol performance though barrels shorter than 16 inches
Consistent penetration and expansion through common barriers

Link Posted: 12/16/2020 7:42:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/16/2020 7:59:51 PM EST by Linc5870]
I'm not sure if you can even buy these anymore, but the FBI had the 62gr XM556SBCT3 ammunition designed specifically for 10.5 - 11.5" barrels (SBC stands for Short Barrel Carbine) using the bonded TBBC (T3) bullet.  Hornady also produced the 5.56 NATO 75gr TAP SBR ammunition (81295) specifically designed for law enforcement short barrels.  Both are soft points (exposed lead), but I find that TAP SBR provides much better precision from my SBR.  I believe that the XM556SBCT3 is the gold standard in barrier blind short barrel rifle ammunition.

It turns out that there are many commercially available ammunition that are effective at lower muzzle velocities so long as the target is not too far down range.  For example, the Black Hills 77gr TMK round is effective at lower velocities.  Federal Fusion MSR and Speer Gold Dot ammunition appear to be also effective at lower muzzle velocities at short range (under 100 meters).  Some may provide effectiveness out further, but if you are running with an SBR, I would assume you are thinking a shorter radius.  The Black Hills 50gr TSX is also regarded as an excellent round from a short barrel, but the range is very limited because it requires a higher velocity to expand versus other TSX loadings.  

All the above are pretty dang expensive, especially now.  Some are regarded as unobtanium these days.  The Gold Dot and Fusion ammunition were fairly reasonable in price before the pandemic compared to the others.  If you find any of the above, those would all be decent choices.  There are others I'm sure and others will chime in with their favorites.

ETA: The Gold Dot loading is at .223 pressures and have pretty low muzzle velocities even compared to other .223 rounds.  The 62gr that you have will have a pretty short range to be effective.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 12:18:29 AM EST
Hornady #8126N 75gr T2 5.56


Link Posted: 12/17/2020 1:57:16 AM EST
Loads of threads on this and the vast majority of responses will serve you well.

TBBC, TSX, 77gr TMK, 77gr SMK, Gold Dot, Fusion, 75gr T2, Nosler Partition, etc...you could pick any of those at random and feel very secure in your choice. I like TBBC.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 3:44:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 135Patriots:
Loads of threads on this and the vast majority of responses will serve you well.

TBBC, TSX, 77gr TMK, 77gr SMK, Gold Dot, Fusion, 75gr T2, Nosler Partition, etc...you could pick any of those at random and feel very secure in your choice. I like TBBC.
View Quote


This. I personally think there are three top dogs in this caliber depending on your needs. 62gr TBBC for the best barrier performance, 77gr TMK for the best soft tissue damage/incapacitation potential, and m855a1 for the best armor penetration (aside from actual m995) and very good terminal performance.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:02:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2020 4:06:24 AM EST by spydercomonkey]
Federal Fusion expands down to 1700fps:

How Low Can It Go? Extreme Low Velocity .223 Federal 62gr Fusion Gel Test


At 2530fps from a 10.5" per @Eagle_19er wonderful testing:

https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/-/16-714088/?

Federal lists the G1 BC at .31; that sounds a bit high to me for a soft point. Lets use a more conservative 0.25 G1 for a margin of error.

Based on a .25 G1 BC @ 2530fps from a 10.5", you're still over the 1700fps expansion range at 250yd:



The 62gr Speer Gold Dot is reportedly the exact same bullet as the 62gr Fusion (ATK/Vista owns Speer and Federal) so you can expect the same performance from the 62gr Gold Dot as the Fusion.

Both projectiles are frequently available as pulls, so if you load them to 5.56 pressure you could expect ~300-350yds expansion range at higher velocity. Or if fired from a 16" bullpup of comparable length.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:34:31 AM EST
62gr gold dot

The heavier rounds are good for barrier performance, and for retaining velocity across long distance shots.

For home defense, the better terminal performance that comes with greater velocity is more useful than long distance performance.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 12:23:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Brian01:
62gr gold dot

The heavier rounds are good for barrier performance, and for retaining velocity across long distance shots.

For home defense, the better terminal performance that comes with greater velocity is more useful than long distance performance.
View Quote


Heavier rounds are good for barrier performance IF they are built to perform through barriers, just like any other bullet. EX: The 77gr SMK is not nearly as good on barriers as the 62gr Gold Dot/Fusion based on the tests I've seen.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 4:32:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 135Patriots:
Loads of threads on this and the vast majority of responses will serve you well.

TBBC, TSX, 77gr TMK, 77gr SMK, Gold Dot, Fusion, 75gr T2, Nosler Partition, etc...you could pick any of those at random and feel very secure in your choice. I like TBBC.
View Quote

Accurate. At defensive distances it’s really not going to matter. There are so many solid options purpose built for defensive/hunting use. Pick one out of a hat and call it a day. I use 55gr Gold Dot and 77 TMK.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 5:46:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2020 5:46:59 PM EST by Glock63]
I have an 840 round ammo can of 70 grain tsx handloads that would be my go to.  25.2 grains tac and a small rifle mag primer equals 2860 fps from a 16 inch barrel and a standard deviation of 11
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 8:29:12 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2020 9:20:13 PM EST by UnaStamus]
Speer Gold Dot 75gr JSP was designed specifically for SBR capability.  It will expand out to at least 100yds out of SBRs down to 7.5” barrels, and progressively farther as the barrel length gets longer.  Out of an 11.5”, you will get reliable bullet expansion out to around 300yds.
Link Posted: 12/17/2020 10:05:43 PM EST
The Speer GD as well as the others mentioned will serve you well.

One that wasn't mentioned is (Mk318) Federal 62g OTM. Awesome performance all the way down to below 2k-fps.
Link Posted: 12/18/2020 12:44:50 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By swampvol:
The Speer GD as well as the others mentioned will serve you well.

One that wasn't mentioned is (Mk318) Federal 62g OTM. Awesome performance all the way down to below 2k-fps.
View Quote

I keep my mags loaded with.
MK318 MOD1
MK262 MOD1
Link Posted: 12/18/2020 9:36:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/18/2020 9:38:18 AM EST by Eagle_19er]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FONTY:

I keep my mags loaded with.
MK318 MOD1
MK262 MOD1
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FONTY:
Originally Posted By swampvol:
The Speer GD as well as the others mentioned will serve you well.

One that wasn't mentioned is (Mk318) Federal 62g OTM. Awesome performance all the way down to below 2k-fps.

I keep my mags loaded with.
MK318 MOD1
MK262 MOD1



Both good choices! My main go-tos are BH 77GR TMK and 62gr Federal Fusion MSR.

That was before I lucked into a couple cases of visual 2nds MK318 MOD1 which are just squirreled away after inspection, loaded onto stripper clips and velocity tested.
Link Posted: 12/18/2020 12:31:07 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:



Both good choices! My main go-tos are BH 77GR TMK and 62gr Federal Fusion MSR.

That was before I lucked into a couple cases of visual 2nds MK318 MOD1 which are just squirreled away after inspection, loaded onto stripper clips and velocity tested.
View Quote



What exactly is a "visual second's" when it comes to military ammo?

Did they accidentally polish off the annealing tarnish?
Link Posted: 12/18/2020 12:44:43 PM EST
After seeing the devastation and penetration that the MK262 clone does out of my 11" rifle to 4 deer, it gets my vote. Ranges were 20-200 yards and they were all DRT.


Link Posted: 12/18/2020 1:58:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/18/2020 2:03:41 PM EST by Eagle_19er]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Happy2shoot:



What exactly is a "visual second's" when it comes to military ammo?

Did they accidentally polish off the annealing tarnish?
View Quote


I'm not entirely sure but there were a few with missing annealing, a handful without visible sealant around the case neck and a slightly larger number of cases with dented necks or dents in the body of the case just below the neck.

Out of 2,000 rounds, I found about 40 that I didn't feel "safe" shooting and pulled them down, even though they were probably fine. I used another couple mags worth for sighting in and a velocity comparison to MK318 MOD0 and stored the other 1,900 or so. $430 for two cases of premium US issue ammo is something I can live with all day! (It came from a friend of a friend who works at the Anoka Federal/ATK plant.)

ETA the thread I made about it at the time: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/MK318-MOD0-vs-MOD1-Velocity-Tests-11-5-and-16-Barrels/16-729928/
Link Posted: 12/18/2020 2:18:44 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Eagle_19er:


I'm not entirely sure but there were a few with missing annealing, a handful without visible sealant around the case neck and a slightly larger number of cases with dented necks or dents in the body of the case just below the neck.

Out of 2,000 rounds, I found about 40 that I didn't feel "safe" shooting and pulled them down, even though they were probably fine. I used another couple mags worth for sighting in and a velocity comparison to MK318 MOD0 and stored the other 1,900 or so. $430 for two cases of premium US issue ammo is something I can live with all day! (It came from a friend of a friend who works at the Anoka Federal/ATK plant.)

ETA the thread I made about it at the time: https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/MK318-MOD0-vs-MOD1-Velocity-Tests-11-5-and-16-Barrels/16-729928/
View Quote
My dad used to get a bunch of HST ammo from a guy that worked there, to bad the guy retired now.
Link Posted: 12/18/2020 2:24:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/18/2020 2:25:49 PM EST by Tigwelder1971]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Happy2shoot:



What exactly is a "visual second's" when it comes to military ammo?

Did they accidentally polish off the annealing tarnish?
View Quote

Federal's definition:

This ammunition is factory seconds with visual blemishes on the brass, but still perfectly functional and effective. 
Link Posted: 12/18/2020 3:04:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:

Federal's definition:

This ammunition is factory seconds with visual blemishes on the brass, but still perfectly functional and effective. 
View Quote


Military ammo is blemished normally, is what I was getting at.
Link Posted: 12/18/2020 3:42:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Happy2shoot:


Military ammo is blemished normally, is what I was getting at.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Happy2shoot:
Originally Posted By Tigwelder1971:

Federal's definition:

This ammunition is factory seconds with visual blemishes on the brass, but still perfectly functional and effective. 


Military ammo is blemished normally, is what I was getting at.

The majority, yes.
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 11:19:51 PM EST
We did the FBI protocol testing for a new SBR round for our agency about a year ago.

The top performers were Gold Dot 75gr closely followed by Fed Tactical 62gr

The Fed Tac ammo is the most expensive defensive round in LE

Barrel lengths were 10.5 11.5 and 12.5
Link Posted: 12/26/2020 11:44:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/26/2020 11:46:55 PM EST by Brahmzy]
Link Posted: 12/31/2020 9:40:04 PM EST
Black Hills 5.56 77gr TMK
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 4:07:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/6/2021 4:09:34 PM EST by UnaStamus]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MONGO45:
We did the FBI protocol testing for a new SBR round for our agency about a year ago.

The top performers were Gold Dot 75gr closely followed by Fed Tactical 62gr

The Fed Tac ammo is the most expensive defensive round in LE

Barrel lengths were 10.5 11.5 and 12.5
View Quote

We switched from 16” Colt 6940s to 11.5” Sig 516 Suppressed rifles for patrol. We did the same testing but with Vista/Federal (being that they’re local to us) and the 75gr GDSP was also the best for us over the Fed Tac Bonded 62Gr LE223T3.  75gr was more consistent with the lower muzzle velocity of the 11.5”.  The 75gr Gold Dot is actually the round they’re really pushing right now for any SBR application.  The designer, Johan Boden, told me about the round development while it was still in testing and it’s a purpose-built bullet from the ground-up specifically for the SBR application, and not some repurposed hunting bullet.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 10:16:49 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By UnaStamus:

We switched from 16” Colt 6940s to 11.5” Sig 516 Suppressed rifles for patrol. We did the same testing but with Vista/Federal (being that they’re local to us) and the 75gr GDSP was also the best for us over the Fed Tac Bonded 62Gr LE223T3.  75gr was more consistent with the lower muzzle velocity of the 11.5”.  The 75gr Gold Dot is actually the round they’re really pushing right now for any SBR application.  The designer, Johan Boden, told me about the round development while it was still in testing and it’s a purpose-built bullet from the ground-up specifically for the SBR application, and not some repurposed hunting bullet.
View Quote


Good info... we are waiting on our first shipment of the 75gr Gold Dot.

Currently issued the 55gr Fed Tactical which is better than most but not optimal for SBRs
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