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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:41:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Buy a silencer. Better than any other ear pro.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:44:23 PM EDT
[#2]
With proper ear protection your ears should not ring from firing an AR15 with a muzzle break outdoors. Even just muffs.
I like walkers ear muffs. They've worked great for me. https://www.scheels.com/p/walkers-razor-series-slim-shooter-folding-electronic-muff/88815101303.html |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:47:18 PM EDT
[#3]
I use foamies and muffs together and does fine for me. Though my hearing is already probably damaged from machine guns, grenades, thousands of rounds down range, etc.
 Something like these custom molded plugs comes to mind: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/2099196673?pid=521839&utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Ear+%26+Eye+Protection&utm_content=521839&gclid=CjwKCAjw0On8BRAgEiwAincsHFtnHqVGTqOaw05JNsfJqi69cPMliHZ1RaGpGyQgkdtJkw7Xu6w2SBoC5koQAvD_BwE Something cheap you could try anyhow before going crazy on expensive gear. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:50:39 PM EDT
[#4]
I need to use high NRR muffs - NRR29 or higher, like the Peltor Optime 105. I've used the earlier version of these for years with good results. The big downside is that they're bulky and can get in the way of a good cheek weld. Good foam plugs are helpful, even with these muffs.
You also want slim earpieces for shooting glasses to help keep the muff seals good. The Peltors seal well over my shooting glasses. My one pair of Howard Leights was retired years ago due to poor noise suppression. Some comps can make the noise worse, especially at a range with walls next to the stalls. If you're in a state that doesn't allow flash hiders, you might want to look at whether a comp that directs noise more forward would help. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:51:52 PM EDT
[#5]
I have a pair of custom westone earplugs. I don't have muffs and these are perfect for outdoor shooting.
You say your ears are ringing even with proper ear pro. Maybe its ringing from tinnitus and not from shooting. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:54:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Odd question maybe, but is it your ears ringing, or the buffer spring "sproing" noise resonating? Try rubbing some synthetic grease (I got a tube of mobile 1 from the local auto parts store) on the buffer spring until it's lightly coated all over and see if that helps. Some people have a lot more trouble with that noise than others due to "bone conduction," for lack of not knowing a more proper term. If you have a more bony face, you may try putting a thin piece of foam around the buffer tube as well for a few shots to see if that helps dampen it down. This might impede your charging handle, but if it does help you could get something like the LaRue RISR + a CTR, XLR TR-2, or a Tacmod and glue a piece of foam to it, or swap your entire unit over to an ACE SOCOM, ACE ARFX, Odin Works Zulu, or MDT SCS - all of which have foam already integrated.
Not an issue I normally see, but given that you are using quality earpro and it has been verified multiple times by people with experience, I'm a bit curious if this might be it. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 12:56:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Just giving you one more suggestion op- but it’s expensive.
I have the Sordin Supreme pro, it’s active electronic protection. Amplifies ambient sound and cuts out above 80 something decibels. I also need hearing pro for work, so it was easier to justify spending $280. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:04:21 PM EDT
[#8]
I have the Otto Noizebarrier with 3m Skull screw tips. They are amazing. Best Ear Pro purchase I ever made. 28 dB(Foam Tips); 23 dB (3-Flange Tips), more with 3m skull screws.
They were meant to be Etymotic's pro line (leader in hearing aides) but I think Otto got a licensing deal. There's a large thread in TOF about it. Expensive, but worth every penny. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:06:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With proper ear protection your ears should not ring from firing an AR15 with a muzzle break outdoors. Even just muffs. I like walkers ear muffs. They've worked great for me. https://www.scheels.com/p/walkers-razor-series-slim-shooter-folding-electronic-muff/88815101303.html This is going to be true only if you have hearing damage already. Electronic muffs are awesome. They also only provide ~20 DB in protection. Adding foamies (~25 DB or so on their own, IF worn properly) should add around ~15 DB combined protection, getting you to 35 or so net DB protection. You really need at least 30-35 DB in protection with most ARs and with SBRs the requirement is likely higher. So basically, big, old school muffs, or Electronics plus doubling up. For the OP. If you are using electronic muffs, I prefer good, deeply inserted foam plugs over Surefire type protection. This combo works pretty well at maintaining a safe decibel reduction. You get more protection from the old school huge muffs, but those don't work well with rifle stocks. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:17:22 PM EDT
[#10]
Getting ready to change into someone more comfortable. Name changes coming.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:19:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For the OP. If you are using electronic muffs, I prefer good, deeply inserted foam plugs over Surefire type protection. This combo works pretty well at maintaining a safe decibel reduction. You get more protection from the old school huge muffs, but those don't work well with rifle stocks. Get both - EP7's are the best earplugs I've ever used, but for OP I'd step up to the EP10's (same thing w/o the canal open/closed option). 30dB NRR, way easier to use properly than standard disposable foamies in my experience. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:21:08 PM EDT
[#12]
I use Howard Leight Impacts. I shoot my 10.5 indoors all the time with no ringing or issues at all.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:34:13 PM EDT
[#13]
1. Compensators are awful, friends don't let friends compensate. Seriously I won't shoot with people that have them.
2. Try foam in ear and get gel cups for the muffs. Verify your sunglasses or hat aren't letting in a gap. 3. Drop the compensator. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 1:38:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Cigarette butts.
Good muffs or foamies outdoors. Indoors: good muffs over foamies. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 2:07:38 PM EDT
[#15]
i double up with both earplugs and electronic ear muffs
make sure you put the ear plugs in correctly  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 2:08:44 PM EDT
[#16]
I use the surefires.
But you should also get a suppressor. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 2:09:46 PM EDT
[#17]
Thanks for all the quick response. I am truly in aww for how much help I'm getting :)
From what I gathered so far: 1. Suppresser (banned in CA) 2. Flash hider (banned in CA) 3. Comp is loud (BCM mod 1 from what I gather is designed to be a combat comp as not a competition comp so it has the teammates in mind and does not directly too much noise/gas backward/side) 4. Ear muff knocked off slightly during shooting (this could have likely happened given how unexperienced I am, any suggestion on what to do with that? I think this will become a even bigger issue if I get a bulkier/better muff) 5. I am actually hearing buffer spring and thought my ear are ringing (how do I tell that? and if I have so much ear protection on that I can't hear the gun powder, how am I still hearing the spring?) 6. Better ear plug (I think ep10 is a good suggestion to try. Any other suggestion on even better ones?) 7. Better ear muff (any suggestion on one that is at 30dB level but slim enough to fit stock/cheek position? Finally a question to those who serve our country, how do you guys even have a hearing left after you fire these beasts full auto indoor with not protection :P |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 2:14:53 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for all the quick response. I am truly in aww for how much help I'm getting :) From what I gathered so far: 1. Suppresser (banned in CA) 2. Flash hider (banned in CA) 3. Comp is loud (BCM mod 1 from what I gather is designed to be a combat comp as not a competition comp so it has the teammates in mind and does not directly too much noise/gas backward/side) 4. Ear muff knocked off slightly during shooting (this could have likely happened given how unexperienced I am, any suggestion on what to do with that? I think this will become a even bigger issue if I get a bulkier/better muff) 5. I am actually hearing buffer spring and thought my ear are ringing (how do I tell that? and if I have so much ear protection on that I can't hear the gun powder, how am I still hearing the spring?) 6. Better ear plug (I think ep10 is a good suggestion to try. Any other suggestion on even better ones?) 7. Better ear muff (any suggestion on one that is at 30dB level but slim enough to fit stock/cheek position? Finally a question to those who serve our country, how do you guys even have a hearing left after you fire these beasts full auto indoor with not protection :P We always tried to have protection at a min of earplugs, but later we had electronic hearing protection. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 2:31:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 3. Comp is loud (BCM mod 1 from what I gather is designed to be a combat comp as not a competition comp so it has the teammates in mind and does not directly too much noise/gas backward/side) Quote HistoryQuoted: 3. Comp is loud (BCM mod 1 from what I gather is designed to be a combat comp as not a competition comp so it has the teammates in mind and does not directly too much noise/gas backward/side) It's going to be louder than a FH, but not by too much, the BCM's are very shootable. 4. Ear muff knocked off slightly during shooting (this could have likely happened given how unexperienced I am, any suggestion on what to do with that? I think this will become a even bigger issue if I get a bulkier/better muff) It definitely would. Basically just pay attention when shouldering the rifle and make sure that you have a good stance. Your head should be largely upright, not rotated over at an angle. Here's a few videos on it: WPS - How to Shoot an AR-15 / M4 Carbine WPS - How to Shoot an AR15 Sage Dynamics - Standing Rifle Grip Garand Thumb & Milspec Mojo - How to control recoil T.Rex - 3 Tips to Shoot Rifle Better T.Rex - How To Control Rifle Recoil 5. I am actually hearing buffer spring and thought my ear are ringing (how do I tell that? and if I have so much ear protection on that I can't hear the gun powder, how am I still hearing the spring?) Because your face is literally sitting on top of it, separated by only a couple millimeters of metal, maybe a few more of plastic. 6. Better ear plug (I think ep10 is a good suggestion to try. Any other suggestion on even better ones?) 7. Better ear muff (any suggestion on one that is at 30dB level but slim enough to fit stock/cheek position? You're running solid equipment. I really don't think that the fault here is with your earpro, I've known plenty of people running nigh the exact same thing (often just the HL's) that were brand new shooters with 0 hearing damage and had 0 issues. Finally a question to those who serve our country, how do you guys even have a hearing left after you fire these beasts full auto indoor with not protection :P From all the one's I've talked to, they generally don't. "Military grade tinnitus" is a real thing.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 2:40:38 PM EDT
[#20]
The ringing that you hear, how long does it last after you fire a shot? Something like 1 second, or more like 10? Or do still hear it when you’re packing up?
If the sound is short (like 1 sec), it might well be coming from the gun (buffer spring) rather than from your ears.... |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 3:10:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Op, can you replace the comp with a flash can?
The BCM comp is only mildly obnoxious compared to others..I had the same BCM setup. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 3:24:03 PM EDT
[#22]
I'm old and have tinnitus. I use regular orange foam plugs and cheap noise-canceling muffs. The purpose of the muffs, in addition to adding protection, is to allow you to hear normal sounds, like speech, which is important at a range.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 3:25:09 PM EDT
[#23]
I just remove my hearing aids and use foamies with muffs. Without feeling the concussive blast or seeing smoke, It's hard for me to tell if someone is shooting if I weren't looking at them. Tinnitus sucks... that imaginary pitch or tone one endures when ambient sounds aren't there to mask it... so if you can't hear ambient sounds normally... you can count on that often high pitch to entertain you. I have a genetic hearing degradation not caused by loud sound, but that does not mean I cannot further damage it with such. You should always protect your hearing the best way you can and you can't put a price on the value of hearing. If someone told me they spent $1000 on hearing protection, I'd tell them "Good Job!"
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Posted: 10/29/2020 3:49:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Foam ear plugs all the way in and Peltor ear muffs. The BCM Comp is super loud. Get rid of that.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 3:51:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Time to move...
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for all the quick response. I am truly in aww for how much help I'm getting :) From what I gathered so far: 1. Suppresser (banned in CA) 2. Flash hider (banned in CA) 3. Comp is loud (BCM mod 1 from what I gather is designed to be a combat comp as not a competition comp so it has the teammates in mind and does not directly too much noise/gas backward/side) 4. Ear muff knocked off slightly during shooting (this could have likely happened given how unexperienced I am, any suggestion on what to do with that? I think this will become a even bigger issue if I get a bulkier/better muff) 5. I am actually hearing buffer spring and thought my ear are ringing (how do I tell that? and if I have so much ear protection on that I can't hear the gun powder, how am I still hearing the spring?) 6. Better ear plug (I think ep10 is a good suggestion to try. Any other suggestion on even better ones?) 7. Better ear muff (any suggestion on one that is at 30dB level but slim enough to fit stock/cheek position? Finally a question to those who serve our country, how do you guys even have a hearing left after you fire these beasts full auto indoor with not protection :P |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 4:10:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the Otto Noizebarrier with 3m Skull screw tips. They are amazing. Best Ear Pro purchase I ever made. 28 dB(Foam Tips); 23 dB (3-Flange Tips), more with 3m skull screws. They were meant to be Etymotic's pro line (leader in hearing aides) but I think Otto got a licensing deal. There's a large thread in TOF about it. Expensive, but worth every penny. Try the Comply Pro tips. The noise isolation is noticeably better than Skullscrews (with the Ottos Off, it sounds like the noise isolation of NRR33 foamies. Actually, the Comply Pro tips resemble the full foamies, except for the tube in the middle for active ear pro. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 4:18:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for all the quick response. I am truly in aww for how much help I'm getting :) From what I gathered so far: 1. Suppresser (banned in CA) 2. Flash hider (banned in CA) 3. Comp is loud (BCM mod 1 from what I gather is designed to be a combat comp as not a competition comp so it has the teammates in mind and does not directly too much noise/gas backward/side) 4. Ear muff knocked off slightly during shooting (this could have likely happened given how unexperienced I am, any suggestion on what to do with that? I think this will become a even bigger issue if I get a bulkier/better muff) 5. I am actually hearing buffer spring and thought my ear are ringing (how do I tell that? and if I have so much ear protection on that I can't hear the gun powder, how am I still hearing the spring?) 6. Better ear plug (I think ep10 is a good suggestion to try. Any other suggestion on even better ones?) 7. Better ear muff (any suggestion on one that is at 30dB level but slim enough to fit stock/cheek position? Finally a question to those who serve our country, how do you guys even have a hearing left after you fire these beasts full auto indoor with not protection :P 5) the difference is that they're talking about hearing the buffer spring go "SPROINGGGG" after a shot, vs your ears going, "EEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeee" after you're done shooting. SPROING = buffer spring. EEEEEEeeeeee = hearing damage. 7) especially since you're a newb and might need to be able to hear a range officer or instructor, my advice would be doubling up with foam earplugs with an NRR 32db AS WELL AS electronic muffs. The electronic muffs on their own, only have about NRR 22-24db, but when combined with foam earplugs, provide good protection WHILE still allowing you to hear an instructor. Gold Ears Predator Pro earmuffs have a cutout at the base to allow for a better cheekweld with long guns. My Comtac IIIs also work OK for a cheekweld. Some earmuffs have a thick base that interferes with a good cheekweld and can result in the muff being pushed up, breaking the seal around your ear (= not getting the heating protection expected). |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 5:09:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Take a look at a BRT linear compensator.
BRT covert comp  Quick Tip: What Is a Linear Compensator? ETA - re read OP, and your device is pinned. Check with the manufacturer and see if they make a sleeve. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 5:41:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Sounds not normal - I can shoot an AR-15 outdoors with just muffs and no ring.
not saying that you have some sort of health problem. just not normal experience regardless. Suppressor would fix the issue 100% |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 5:44:55 PM EDT
[#30]
All I ever use are the 3-rib silicone plugs, like the green ones I get from U-line.
U-Line Ear Plugs NRR Rated at 26. Not that ribbed, double ended junk that the military was handing out. They work very well, even with my comp equiped .308 and hard wall shooting stalls. Just lick it, and put it in (that is what she said) |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 6:03:21 PM EDT
[#31]
I've found the combo that works for me is 3M peltor x5a passive muffs over 3M EARsoft fx foam properly inserted. I've already got tinnitus and have no desire to make it any worse.
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Posted: 10/29/2020 6:14:27 PM EDT
[#32]
I bought these and wear them over soft plugs. Work great and only $14. https://www.amazon.com/stores/page/3784F298-3349-40A3-8FFB-3014BE5FDBF5?store_ref=SB_A00041592WFJ555L5KRS8&pf_rd_p=efe5865e-f416-4822-a59b-2979a59d97cb&aaxitk=mY5QZuKsFN4vdt8gPw11OA&hsa_cr_id=2726766520901&lp_asins=B01FPWTJBI,B01FL5E3DI&lp_mat_key=ear%2520muffs%2520noise%2520protection&lp_query=Pro%2520For%2520Sho&lp_slot=auto-sparkle-hsa-tetris&ref_=sbx_be_s_sparkle_td_brand
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Posted: 10/29/2020 7:32:01 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i double up with both earplugs and electronic ear muffs make sure you put the ear plugs in correctly https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/21F471DD-0D7B-4546-9C23-7EA66A915A7F_png-1659489.JPG This, 39 years working in a refinery around machinery that was @ 110-120 dB...using the proper method for the plugs is essential. I had my hearing checked every year for the 39 years and believe it or not, my middle frequency actually improved.... I use single foamies, Lazer-Lytes, rolled up small enough to insert in a fleas ass, and then give them time to expand. The area around your ear canal is critical also, that is where the muffs come in.... |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 7:34:57 PM EDT
[#34]
I just use plain old ear plugs....
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Posted: 10/29/2020 7:35:21 PM EDT
[#35]
Double up.
Walker Razors are good but the seal can break around your ear and the blast gets through. Earplugs don't block enough. I learned long ago working around fighter jets, use double EPs. Muffs and Plugs. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 7:39:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Suppressor
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Posted: 10/29/2020 7:44:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i double up with both earplugs and electronic ear muffs make sure you put the ear plugs in correctly https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/21F471DD-0D7B-4546-9C23-7EA66A915A7F_png-1659489.JPG I don’t double, but you are correct in the fact that many people don’t know how to use war pro correctly |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 7:52:17 PM EDT
[#38]
I have suppressors now, but without I just use good muffs. There are a lot of guns louder than a 16" AR.
Big pistols indoors is the worse, but I very rarely go to a public place. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:01:23 PM EDT
[#39]
Indoors, I wear plugs and electronic muffs.
Out doors, electronic muffs only. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:09:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finally a question to those who serve our country, how do you guys even have a hearing left after you fire these beasts full auto indoor with not protection :P I've been very careful over the years about wearing hearing protection. On armored vehicles, I found our combat vehicle crewman (CVC) helmets to be fine for muffling tank main gun and .50 cal fire. I've fired rifles, machineguns, and mortars and set off Claymores and small demo charges over the years wearing GI orange triple flange earplugs like these and later the combat earplugs that 3M has been sued over. I'm fortunate that I've never had any significant degradation in my hearing, which has been tested every year for the last 20. My hearing is probably the only thing that hasn't gone downhill! Having said that, I've never fired weapons in combat without hearing protection, and I haven't been that close to any when I wasn't wearing ear plugs. In my experience, earplugs were sufficient for shooting outdoors, but indoors, I wear ear muffs - these Peltor Sport Presidents. I don't wear earplugs underneath them, although I know it's recommended. I have a set of Peltor Sport Tactical 500 ear protection but find that they don't reduce noise enough for indoor shooting. Regular ear muffs like the Peltor President provide better protection. One other thing to consider is to see if you can get the muzzle of the rifle forward of the side walls in the indoor range shooting booth (assuming it has walls) by standing closer to the table or firing line. I have a BCM Comp Mod 1, and the walls definitely reflect the sound back at you and make it louder. Of course, that means you'll be sharing more of the noise with your neighbors, but if the range isn't too busy, hopefully you'll have empty lanes next to you. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:50:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buy a silencer. Better than any other ear pro. Sure. Easy to come by in CA. 
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Posted: 10/29/2020 8:54:01 PM EDT
[#42]
14.5" means it's permanently attached, no easy way to swap muzzle devices
I doubt the spring/buffer/carrier could hurt your ears. you can lock the bolt to the rear, with an empty rifle, shoulder it, and hit the bolt release, it's loud enough to wake a sleeping baby, but doubt it's loud enough to hurt adult ears. |
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Posted: 10/29/2020 9:32:27 PM EDT
[#43]
I use earplugs all day at my job. I always end up with 2-4 in my pocket at the end of every workday. I usually gather them all and put them in a mesh laundry bag then wash them. I must have 2 gallon ziplocs full. I love spending money and I can't justify buying ear pro due to having those.
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Posted: 10/30/2020 3:53:51 AM EDT
[#44]
My main guess would be the seal of your muffs not being lined up properly. That with the shitty Surefires could easily be a problem.
The Surefires use lobes. One might seal and you think you're good to go, but if the other lobes aren't making perfect contact in your ear canal, their whole design fails. I would actually highly advise using old fashioned plugs in place of their poorly designed ear pro. I use Walker Razor Pro digital. They don't sound anywhere near as good as my old Howard Leights, but they definitely have a higher reduction. Again I want to stress how important the seal is on that though. |
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Posted: 10/30/2020 6:33:39 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buy a silencer. Better than any other ear pro. What he said... plus good ear pro |
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Posted: 10/30/2020 8:03:29 AM EDT
[#46]
I wear 30 nrr electronic by itself, no ringing in my ears https://www.safetyglassesusa.com/howard-leight-impact-pro-electronic-ear-muff-nrr-30/?msclkid=2e019ed29a831a789058c14e9afc3a87 If you want extra, Cheap 3M foam ear plugs have much better NRR than those expensive ones you got |
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Posted: 10/30/2020 8:07:41 AM EDT
[#47]
The cheap foamies from Harbor Freight are among the best hearing protection you can get. Something like 30 DB's. You can buy them in 50 packs for about five or six bucks.
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Posted: 10/30/2020 11:00:32 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: i double up with both earplugs and electronic ear muffs make sure you put the ear plugs in correctly https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/21F471DD-0D7B-4546-9C23-7EA66A915A7F_png-1659489.JPG Forgot to add: There are still some hamfisted folks who can get it wrong, despite instructions like the above. - when compressing foam earplugs, GENTLY apply pressure while progressively rolling them smaller and smaller between your fingers. I've seen hamfisted folks SQUASH, then roll. DON'T do that. It creates folds/creases in the foam that makes it impossible to get a proper seal even after the foam has expanded in the ear canal. Roll it gently while increasing pressure gradually. If there are ANY creases/folds, you're squeezing too hard. Allow the foam to fully expand, then try again with less pressure. |
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Posted: 10/30/2020 11:54:35 AM EDT
[#49]
Double your ear pro. Put in plugs then muffs on top.
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Posted: 10/30/2020 12:13:02 PM EDT
[#50]
Topic Moved
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