Competition to Combat Crossover Part 4

AR-15 » AR Discussions

AR Sponsor:

Site Notices

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Competition to Combat Crossover Part 4 (Page 1 of 4)

Posted: 12/31/2018 3:12:43 PM EDT

Despite the pages upon pages of URG-1 clones
and talk of issued 1x6 and 1x8 scopes. Majority of those deployed have yet to see anything new.
So like always they are not waiting on SOCOM to catch up.

Part 4 of my series ..What SF are using down range...enjoy!
Defense Review Crossover part 4

Posted: 12/31/2018 3:16:13 PM EDT

[#1]

Posted: 12/31/2018 3:20:04 PM EDT

[#2]

Really making me wanna do a 45 degree red dot, dangit.

Thanks for the article and the insight

Posted: 12/31/2018 3:29:21 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
Really making me wanna do a 45 degree red dot, dangit.

Thanks for the article and the insight

View Quote

Do it .....single optic combat rifles are a thing of the past!

Posted: 12/31/2018 3:54:13 PM EDT

[#4]

That's really interesting that Strike Eagles and PA optics are seeing combat as personal-purchase items.

Posted: 12/31/2018 3:57:33 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's really interesting that Strike Eagles and PA optics are seeing combat as personal-purchase items.

View Quote

First time I saw a Burris scope down range was 2012. Would they all
take Vortex Razors and Trjicons sure. But alas even SF guys only get paid so much!

Posted: 12/31/2018 4:04:42 PM EDT

[#6]

Pretty great that the Viper PST Gen II is getting some combat love. Are they using M855A1?

Posted: 12/31/2018 4:10:11 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
Pretty great that the Viper PST Gen II is getting some combat love. Are they using M855A1?

View Quote

Still mostly MK262 down range
Speaking with members they are able to get good hits out to 600 meters.

Posted: 12/31/2018 5:38:51 PM EDT

[#8]

Very Nice

All those were good reads, Thank You for sharing.

Posted: 12/31/2018 7:55:01 PM EDT

[#9]

I predict a spike in sales for those two models...

Posted: 12/31/2018 8:31:39 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
I predict a spike in sales for those two models...

View Quote

Lol...true

Would love to see durability testing. My bet is burris mtac wins over vortex and pa

Posted: 12/31/2018 8:52:10 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's really interesting that Strike Eagles and PA optics are seeing combat as personal-purchase items.

View Quote

People bring all kinds of stupid shit down range. A friend of mine put a Wal-Mart 3-9X40 on an M4 in Iraq.

Posted: 12/31/2018 9:04:48 PM EDT

[#12]

I think Vortex far cry from Walmart scopes

Posted: 12/31/2018 9:28:02 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think Vortex far cry from Walmart scopes

View Quote

Not really. And it was 'In ThEaTeRe'.

Posted: 12/31/2018 11:11:32 PM EDT

[#14]

Thanks for sharing I really like the dope cards!

I was just making fun of my boyfriend the other day for putting a red dot on an offset. I guess he is hip and stuff. That said I am surprised that they are using offset sights with variable scopes rather than acogs with a red dot on top.

Posted: 12/31/2018 11:25:33 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Thanks for sharing I really like the dope cards!

I was just making fun of my boyfriend the other day for putting a red dot on an offset. I guess he is hip and stuff. That said I am surprised that they are using offset sights with variable scopes rather than acogs with a red dot on top.

View Quote

Me too, its less efficient

Posted: 1/5/2019 12:14:25 PM EDT

[#16]

@Stukas87

I have a couple of questions about your article if you don't mind.

1. What reticle are the guys using the Viper 1-6 running? I'm assuming Mil?
2. What ammo are the dope cards calibrated for? MK262?

I had a few more that will hopefully come back to me. Thank for your time.

Posted: 1/5/2019 1:16:30 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
@Stukas87

I have a couple of questions about your article if you don't mind.

1. What reticle are the guys using the Viper 1-6 running? I'm assuming Mil?
2. What ammo are the dope cards calibrated for? MK262?

I had a few more that will hopefully come back to me. Thank for your time.

View Quote

Yep the MIL/MRAD

and two guys have Strike Eagles a 1x6, 1x8 they have true holds for MK262

Posted: 1/5/2019 2:52:47 PM EDT

[#18]

Stukas87, great job on the articles. Can you say which PA scopes you have seen in use.

@Samuse; gear that works may not be a POS even though it isn't made by Gucci.

Posted: 1/6/2019 8:36:51 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:

Not really. And it was 'In ThEaTeRe'.

View Quote

While it's true that you see a lot of stupid shit mounted on weapons while deployed - that's not what he's writing about .....much work can be done with "second rate" equipment if you're already high speed lol......as far as Vortex PST being Walmart level......just no. I used a MK4 1.5-5 on an M-14 in 2006-7 and it's no surprise that these type of optics are taking over. Was very thankful that my CO allowed some latitude in personal optics.

eta: @Stukas87 very well written sir - thanks!!

Posted: 1/6/2019 10:09:28 PM EDT

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

Lol...true

Would love to see durability testing. My bet is burris mtac wins over vortex and pa

View Quote

Posted: 1/6/2019 10:33:54 PM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
That's really interesting that Strike Eagles and PA optics are seeing combat as personal-purchase items.

View Quote

Amen to that and endorsed by warriors using the budget gear. Great news for us in the working stiff peasant class.
Great articles.

Posted: 1/6/2019 10:40:52 PM EDT

[#22]

This is a great article and insight. And I bet some heads are going to spin after reading this.

Posted: 1/6/2019 10:55:57 PM EDT

[#23]

Quote History

Quoted:

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

Lol...true

Would love to see durability testing. My bet is burris mtac wins over vortex and pa

I say this as someone who owns/owned all 3 and each year pick one rifle to abuse like a redheaded step child. No 1-4x that I beat up was as tough as the mtac. Now I didn't try all the 1-4s out there but my pa crapped out completely after I threw it over a blind with my rifle and the votex pst developed an occular bubble after falling off a quad on a deer trail. My mtac has been driven over by that same quad and abused and keeps on going. Lenses were scratched up and it looked like $hit but it worked and the glass was relatively clear with no internal issues to the 1 through 4 magnification. My sample is small but even on snipershide and m4carbine the mtac get's glowing durability reviews.

For the record, I no longer have any mtacs on any rigs and have that were lying around I'm going to sell as I've upgraded to trijicons

Posted: 1/6/2019 11:12:55 PM EDT

[#24]

As I mention given the choice and money sure
these guys would purchase more high end stuff.

Would I take my Vortex Strike Eagle to combat? For me no.
But no denying the Strike Eagle line is holding up well.

I would however take a Vortex PST all day long if offered.
Its a solid scope in my opinion.

My next scope purchase will be Vortex PST GEN II 3x15
for my .308 gas gun for PRS

Posted: 1/7/2019 2:02:48 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:
I think Vortex far cry from Walmart scopes

View Quote

I think even Walmart scopes would be a step up from the top of the line precision scopes of 30 years ago. We are extremely lucky to have very good quality, robust optics for very reasonable prices these days.

Posted: 1/7/2019 3:06:15 AM EDT

[#26]

@Stukas87
Great articles! Much appreciated! I love this kind of stuff and info. “Non standard” gear in use by the guys down range has always been of interest to me.
Which brands/models of MRDS are being used on the rifles? I’m assuming a lot of Trijicons but other makes and models would be interesting.

I foresee strike eagles drying up on the EE...

Posted: 1/7/2019 8:34:40 AM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
@Stukas87
Great articles! Much appreciated! I love this kind of stuff and info. “Non standard” gear in use by the guys down range has always been of interest to me.
Which brands/models of MRDS are being used on the rifles? I’m assuming a lot of Trijicons but other makes and models would be interesting.

I foresee strike eagles drying up on the EE...

View Quote

The standard issue MRDS is the EOTech MRDS
I know its been announced Trijicon RMR has been selected
but alas like URG-1 SF dudes have yet to see them.
There are still some Doctor sights floating around.

The Aimpoint T1 from the article personally owned.

Posted: 1/7/2019 9:36:46 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:
Me too, its less efficient

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks for sharing I really like the dope cards!

I was just making fun of my boyfriend the other day for putting a red dot on an offset. I guess he is hip and stuff. That said I am surprised that they are using offset sights with variable scopes rather than acogs with a red dot on top.

Me too, its less efficient

Why is it a surprise that they are using variables with offset red dots vs ACOGs with piggybacks?

A 1-6 or 1-8 with offset RDS is a lot more flexible than a fixed 4x and red dot.

Also, I don't agree that the offset red dot option is less efficient. I had an ACOG with offset T1 back in 2008. It was pretty slick. Bring it up straight and you get the ACOG. Bring it up slightly canted and you get the red dot. To shift on the fly you just rotate the rifle a bit. Cheek weld was consistent between sights. Height over bore was lower than a piggybacked RDS so there wasn't as much mechanical offset to account for.

Had the variable scope game been what it is today I'd have used one over the ACOG.

Posted: 1/7/2019 11:02:00 AM EDT

[#29]

@Stukas87

Good old American ingenuity with the side mount back up

What hardware you all using to mount the back up optic?

Thanks!!

Posted: 1/7/2019 11:35:16 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:
@Stukas87

Good old American ingenuity with the side mount back up

What hardware you all using to mount the back up optic?

Thanks!!

View Quote

Well I use a Matt Burkett Predator off set which is not sold anymore
Talking with these guys some of their mounts were custom made by
unit shops.

Down range SF has access to guys (contractors) sole purpose is to supply custom gear
They are actually pretty awesome they can do:
Tactical Nylon webbing
Anything Kydex
metal fabrication for custom gun mounts and ammo racks
and it seems scope mounts

Posted: 1/7/2019 1:11:25 PM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

Well I use a Matt Burkett Predator off set which is not sold anymore
Talking with these guys some of their mounts were custom made by
unit shops.

Down range SF has access to guys (contractors) sole purpose is to supply custom gear
They are actually pretty awesome they can do:
Tactical Nylon webbing
Anything Kydex
metal fabrication for custom gun mounts and ammo racks
and it seems scope mounts

View Quote

Good to know sir!! I got a local fabricator who I will tap for custom creating the mount.

Impressed with the innovation and thanks for knowledge sharing with the American rifleman!!

It is much appreciated sir!!

Posted: 1/7/2019 5:02:30 PM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:
Why is it a surprise that they are using variables with offset red dots vs ACOGs with piggybacks?

A 1-6 or 1-8 with offset RDS is a lot more flexible than a fixed 4x and red dot.

Also, I don't agree that the offset red dot option is less efficient. I had an ACOG with offset T1 back in 2008. It was pretty slick. Bring it up straight and you get the ACOG. Bring it up slightly canted and you get the red dot. To shift on the fly you just rotate the rifle a bit. Cheek weld was consistent between sights. Height over bore was lower than a piggybacked RDS so there wasn't as much mechanical offset to account for.

Had the variable scope game been what it is today I'd have used one over the ACOG.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Thanks for sharing I really like the dope cards!

I was just making fun of my boyfriend the other day for putting a red dot on an offset. I guess he is hip and stuff. That said I am surprised that they are using offset sights with variable scopes rather than acogs with a red dot on top.

Me too, its less efficient

Why is it a surprise that they are using variables with offset red dots vs ACOGs with piggybacks?

A 1-6 or 1-8 with offset RDS is a lot more flexible than a fixed 4x and red dot.

Also, I don't agree that the offset red dot option is less efficient. I had an ACOG with offset T1 back in 2008. It was pretty slick. Bring it up straight and you get the ACOG. Bring it up slightly canted and you get the red dot. To shift on the fly you just rotate the rifle a bit. Cheek weld was consistent between sights. Height over bore was lower than a piggybacked RDS so there wasn't as much mechanical offset to account for.

Had the variable scope game been what it is today I'd have used one over the ACOG.

shifting of firearm and reallocation of target acquisition under duress is less efficient. I'm surprised they are not mounting them up top which would keep poi shift at a minimum which is the norm and still widely in use

Posted: 1/7/2019 5:46:37 PM EDT

[#33]

Good read I have been wanting to replace my 1-4 PST with a 1-6 but the cost and since my 1-4 still works I have not made the jump.

Posted: 1/7/2019 8:03:46 PM EDT

[#34]

Quote History

Quoted:

shifting of firearm and reallocation of target acquisition under duress is less efficient. I'm surprised they are not mounting them up top which would keep poi shift at a minimum which is the norm and still widely in use

View Quote

Not correct, if it were so, guys would not be opting for off set mounts,
Piggy backed ACOGs have been around in the MIL since 2005ish
All Elcans come with a MRDS on top many guys don't even mount one up there.

The issue with top mounted is, height above bore
with a Elcan and top mount red dot, that's 4 1/2 inches which is too much hold off.
Plus you have to lift your head up, losing cheek to stock
Can make acquiring the dot not that fast. Especially compared to just rolling gun over.

Same reasons the 45 off set dot so popular in 3gun...
faster and more stable.

Posted: 1/7/2019 8:04:18 PM EDT

[#35]

sorry double post

Posted: 1/7/2019 9:01:35 PM EDT

[#36]

Great read, thank you. I don't feel bad about handing down my strike eagle to my GF while I go out and snag myself a NF NX-8

Posted: 1/7/2019 9:23:48 PM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
Great read, thank you. I don't feel bad about handing down my strike eagle to my GF while I go out and snag myself a NF NX-8

View Quote

If there is one thing I wanted from this article
help shooters stay tight with their GFs!

Posted: 1/7/2019 10:26:05 PM EDT

[#38]

One thing I've found is that most of the 45deg mounts out there don't center the mini dot over the barrel (Trijicon being the exception) - do you guys find that it hinders your shooting in any way (weird hold overs/unders etc..)??

Posted: 1/8/2019 2:11:42 PM EDT

[#39]

This was a very interesting evolution to read (went back & read them in order & stuck links in my Def Review folder).

I think it's telling and important that you contrast the difference between how you are able to fight... e.g.,
'I've got a cool & capable shorty but I'll see your PKM and raise you some frickin' indirect or CAS... how ya like that?"

versus the fairly standard carbine-size clone you put together for yourself post-retirement.

Case & roles for both approaches were really laid out & the evolution was neat; in total, a really fine piece of work.
Thanks and big Congrats on the retirement.

Posted: 1/8/2019 4:51:23 PM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:
This was a very interesting evolution to read (went back & read them in order & stuck links in my Def Review folder).

I think it's telling and important that you contrast the difference between how you are able to fight... e.g.,
'I've got a cool & capable shorty but I'll see your PKM and raise you some frickin' indirect or CAS... how ya like that?"

versus the fairly standard carbine-size clone you put together for yourself post-retirement.

Case & roles for both approaches were really laid out & the evolution was neat; in total, a really fine piece of work.
Thanks and big Congrats on the retirement.

View Quote

Thank you!

Posted: 1/8/2019 6:52:08 PM EDT

[#41]

Great articles and thank you for your service.

Posted: 1/8/2019 7:01:29 PM EDT

[#42]

Quote History

Quoted:
Great articles and thank you for your service.

View Quote

Thank You

I am currently working on a article for SWAT Magazine online
will feature more pictures of the guns from downrange
Subject will be... single optic carbines specifically red dots are a thing of the past!

Posted: 1/9/2019 12:22:31 PM EDT

[#43]

Thanks for the article! Nice to see these optics out in the wild really being put through their paces. It would be interesting to see how they hold up over the course of their deployments.

Posted: 1/9/2019 12:33:19 PM EDT

[#44]

The team is currently nearing the end of 7 month deployment in A-Stan,
when I got the pics and feedback. So appears optics have lasted at least one deployment with no issues.

Posted: 1/9/2019 1:06:42 PM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:
The team is currently nearing the end of 7 month deployment in A-Stan,
when I got the pics and feedback. So appears optics have lasted at least one deployment with no issues.

View Quote

I really enjoyed the article and will make a point to read parts 1-3 next. Thanks for your service - please log out and back in.

@Stukas87

Posted: 1/9/2019 1:10:57 PM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:

I really enjoyed the article and will make a point to read parts 1-3 next. Thanks for your service - please log out and back in.

@Stukas87

View Quote

Posted: 1/9/2019 1:35:44 PM EDT

[#47]

You know how most of these guys are saying this was a great and informative article? Those guys are right.

Posted: 1/9/2019 4:28:42 PM EDT

[#48]

Thank you for the info. Due to the pic of your most recent clone, I looked up protective RDS mounts as I had never thought of them before.

Found these:
https://amsmachine.net/product-list/mrd-mounts/

Posted: 1/9/2019 11:02:20 PM EDT

[#49]

Quote History

Quoted:

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

I really enjoyed the article and will make a point to read parts 1-3 next. Thanks for your service - please log out and back in.

@Stukas87

Second

- very cool man...Stukas87 is one of the people I really pay attention to when he says something here....