Bonus time came around, and I decided to treat myself. Lucky for me, a penny auction came up at just the right time. Picked this baby up for right at 1k. How do you all think I did?

Unfortunately, almost the entire FCG is gone, save for the selector switch. That said, it has all of the other parts. All this gun needs is a new receiver, and FCG. Thinking about a franklin binary, as the selector looks about as close as one can get to GI. Ignoring the fact it's ambi of course.

I'm trying to decide how I want to convert the magwell however. It will feed from Colt style mags, no question there. This kit came with the original colt adapter already, so I could use that (although I'm unsure how it's properly installed), or I can make life easy and use the hahn adapter for colt mags. Part of me wants to use what I have, since I have it.

This will likely wind up on an 80% lower. Although I do have some ready to assemble lowers already, I'm already doing an 80% for my 603 hodge podge. I'm not exactly sure, yet.

I intend to leave the upper and other components as they are, speaking of finish. Including the scuffed(?) area on the carry handle. Not sure if that's a concrete mark or if the carry handle got nipped by the same blade that cut the lower.

I would have photographed the bolt too, but I didn't see any interesting markings on it; or rather any markings period. No 'C', even. Not sure if the C or MP markings would apply to the 9mm bolts like they did with the 5.56 bcgs.

@TheArcticWolf1911

Nice find!

Could you post a clear photo of the bottom of the bolt? Interested in the ramp area under the firing pin (if there is a ramp).

Also, the bolt weight in oz if you can?  Thanks!

Thank you. I'm quite pleased to have it a part of my growing AR collection.

Bolt weighs 15.86oz, and buffer weighs 5.63.

The rubber on the buffer end appears black, but when light shines through it, it's a deep cherry red.

Had to use a scope ring to keep the bolt upright while photographing the underside.

I'm debating on whether or not I want to swap muzzle devices. I have it in mind to buy a Wolfman suppressor here soon, and I'd like to suppress this as well. That would be with the addition of a heavier buffer too. Probably an 11oz or thereabouts. I want to keep this as original as practical, that being said.

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Good quality pics and Cool kit! You don't see them that often anymore. I don't know if you can SBR an 80% receiver, but one pro to going with a removable adapter is the ability to use one SBR lower for your 5.56 and 9X19 needs, assuming you don't want to spend the money on more SBRed lowers.  I think an SBRed Colt lower, or Colt-like marked lower, would look great with that upper and a Colt Commando or even 6933 upper.  Swap in the mag adapter, buffer, and maybe recoil spring, and you're good to go.  A threaded bolt catch pin could make things faster if the mag adapter requires it be removed.

Anyhow, thanks for posting and have fun with the project!

I really wasnt expecting to find such a kit nowadays for a price I'd be willing to pay, but low and behold, it seems you still can occasionally.

I was originally intending to throw on a standard A2 receiver w/ auto mark, drop in a binary, add an SBA4 and call it a day, but I've had a change of heart. Funny you should mention 80% lowers, and all.

I have an XM16E1 project going on (built from new parts), and I intend to 'tool up' for the making of 80% lowers, so I'll be getting some money's worth out of these items. I'll be emailing NODAK here shortly to get on that interested parties list. I'm going to source an A1 type receiver for this SMG as well, and I'm going to try and clone the existing lower as closely as legally I can then stamp it, so I can use the original stock. Ideally I'd want the original serial, too. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do that, however. Might have to pop in on the NFA forum and get some opinions.

I've been playing with it in it's current configuration, and I can't help but feel drawn to going the extra mile here. I'm not exactly sure how much fencing this gun had, however. hard to tell from what little of the lower I have left.

Finding an engraver willing to do what I want will likely be the hardest part. Then I'll have to figure out how to finish the lower, whether it be having it anodized, cerakote, or what. Although I wouldn't call this finish XM grey, it's certainly not black. It is still my intention to toss a binary in it, as I don't have the funds to aquire an M16 lower, let alone a correctly marked Colt SMG full auto lower, pre 86.

I don't have photos of the many Colt SMGs I handled, carried and used over the years, but I can tell you a few things:

1) Many of them had bolts exactly like yours, so that means you'll break hammer pins every time it's Tuesday, at least in Auto they did a lot.

2) If you run it with stock Colt parts, it is not a very smooth shooting weapon.

3) Many of them had A1 type lowers, with the thinner webbing at the receiver extension area.  None had anything but full fencing around the magazine release area.  Later ones had A2 type lower receivers.

4) After enough rounds through one, the repeated blows from the heavy bolt carrier can and will cause the steel barrel nut to tear the aluminum threading on the upper receiver off.  This will cause your barrel to come off next time the bolt goes home.

5) Despite its flaws, the SMG is still a cool toy.

Years ago I came across a handful of complete Colt SMG uppers. Group buy for a few friends and I.

The bolts caused a weird full auto malfunction. The hammer would be forced down due to the un-cut bolt and the horn of the hammer would hit the top of the disconnector.  Causing a run away action.

I corrected this by removing the horn off the hammer. Later getting a PSA bolt(?) and a full auto hammer/lower parts kit. Which worked flawlessly.  

Bolt on the top & left is the Colt.

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Cool build.

Thank you!

There's a theme I've noticed in hearing various anecdotes about earlier Colts which deviated from the normal 20" barrel, .223/5.56 cartridge. Strange malfunctions and modifications to the system itself to achieve a goal without fully understanding the original reasoning behind the design in the first place. Not to say I could do any better, of course.

For example, Colt's semi auto (original) disconnector where the disconnector spring slot was moved forward. Worked fine in 20" guns, but doubled or ran away on 16" and shorter guns. Or early attempts at 16" barreled rifles, by cutting down the barrel only and not giving any thought to the timing of the weapon as it related to dwell or gasport size. Although I'm not entirely sure if that was actually Colt or the military on that last one





Interesting. What is it about the Colt bolts that breaks the hammer pins so frequently? Would replacing it with a modern 9mm colt cut bolt solve this issue? I'm sure that the pin breakages would also cause damage to the lower. Also sounds like I may want to inspect that area on the upper. Would seriously suck to have the barrel come off in such a way.

Sounds to me that maybe some modern 9mm internals may be a good idea.

The non-ramped bolts put too much torque on the hammer and thus the hammer pins.  Stainless pins lasted slightly longer but still broke.  A ramped bolt will fix that issue and this also saves the hammer pin holes from egging out.  Usually, I knew the pin was broken when the gun would go auto, while still in semi mode.  This is because the broken pin let the hammer move to the side enough to skip the disconnector and follow the bolt.  When it did this, it would still cease firing once you let off the trigger in semi automatic.  

I have a 9mm Colt-patterned carbine that a buddy built for me (semi-only), and it is a ton of fun to shoot due to the new buffer and ramped bolt.  It's meant to be an improved setup.  If you're trying to clone, I don't see anything wrong with it as long as you know you may see issues if you run it a lot like that.  

I used to have some pre-ban 32-round Colt mags, but I sold them to people in ban states.  If you need/want a Colt-marked post-ban mag (still has Restricted Govt/LEO markings) for authenticity, let me know.

You're welcome.

I use KNS pins on my rifle. I heard about he broken pin issue with 9mm AR's.  I know it takes away the original look, but function over fashion here.

I don't recall who, but there are companies out there that will ramp your original bolt. I have another 9mm AR that I don't shoot much, so I swapped bolts for the SMG build.

I'll look into that. I'm hoping it's something I can accomplish at home, as I'm a DIY nut whenever possible. Except when it comes to engraving and anodizing. Those two things are *just* out of my reach, and by 'just' I mean 'a lot'



Sounds like my Colt bolt (I presume it's a Colt) either needs a ramp job, or I need to slap in a more modern bolt. I'd prefer to use as many original parts as possible. Not exactly sure how difficult it might be. I'd imagine I'd need something more..... professional (shall we say) than just a bench grinder. Probably some kind of mill, or at the very least a drill press with an end mill

I'll give some thought to those mags. I admit, I'm a bit of a sucker for the restricted, property of US GOV, etc marks.

Interestingly enough, the hammer/trigger pins I got with the kit are not stainless. I have to assume they're original to the rifle, but they could very well not be. I don't have the FCG to examine for damage, so there's no telling what kind of hammer it had in it, unfortunately. It's always a pet peeve of mine when kit sellers take out the FCG. I mean, I get why as they're FA components, but that's akin to governing my car to 100mph. "Nannying" as I like to call it.

Sent an email to NODAK about lowers, and now I'm looking at routers. I could probably just borrow one, but I hate borrowing things. Makita RT0701C is what I'm looking at right now. I intend to use the 5D tactical jig. They (the jig) seem to be the favorite based on the countless threads I've read.

I'm also trying to decide if I'm willing to remove the original muzzle device to attach a mount for a suppressor. I ordered a Wolfman yesterday, so who knows when form 4 will come back.

Decisions, decisions.

I did remove the FH for a 3-lug mount. Just for compatibility with my other subguns. If you go this route, you'll have to keep the washers to clear the bayonet lug.  

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In a perfect world, you would get both, right?  Have an authentic-in-all-its-flawed-reality Colt setup and then have a modernized 9mm carbine that didn’t do all the bad stuff.  

Our armorers stocked the stainless pins and often swapped them into new guns.  I think it’s cool to have the original bolt, and you can get a great, ramped 9mm bolt that works with your setup for around $100.  To me, it’s better to buy one of those rather than modify the original, but that is just my preference.

I agree. After some deliberation, I'm going to keep the old bolt in the parts box, and swap in a new bolt. Probably a stern, as it appears the most authentic from the ej port. Not a fan of bolts with the logo visible from the ej port. Ruins the authenticity.




I like that. Suits the gun well, imo.




Otherwise, I keep coming back to the velcro on the handguard. I'm fairly certain this was to affix a pressure pad for a weapon light. Unfortunately, it would be damn near impossible to deduce exactly when this weapon was used to ascertain a correct time period. After all, 'current' tech for 70s, 90s, 2010s, etc varies greatly. I don't see any witness marks that would have been made from light mounts on the FSB or the handguards. I'm almost certain that it would have been clamped onto the FSB. Suggestions for lights are welcomed. For some reason, I have the 80s in my head, although I have no real basis for this decade. The gun just *feels* 80s to me, coming from a 23 year old.

Now I might get flammed for this. I put a GG&G rail on my handguard for a light mount.

Do I wish I found another handguard to drill holes in, maybe? But I certainly stand by the function over fashion aspect.

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Looks great.  I strongly approve!

ILWT makes an extended base 3-lug adapter for exactly this kind of application. It would let you remove those contrasting washers...

Extended base 3-lug

Muzzle device spacer washers generally aren't a good idea when working with suppressors.  If they're uneven at all it will throw off the concentricity to bore and can cause baffle/endcap strikes.

I appreciate that. And the link for the 3-lug.

I knew the risks using the washers. However with my YHM Wraith SMG can, it's always worked without issue.

Apologies for the late response.

I like the aesthetics of the 3 lug. Doesn't look too sharply out of place on it, unlike more modern can compatible flash hiders/brakes. I'm looking into using the xeno brake (hopefully) with my wolfman that's still in jail. I also like the idea of the rail section on the handguards. I do intend to mount a light to mine, but I think I'll be taking a different route as to spare the original handguards. Probably a FSB clamp on rail mount of some type. I'm not exactly sure what kind of light. I've been looking for examples of older weapon lights from the late 90s or early 2000s, but ultimately haven't came up with much information that's actually helpful. You would think somebody would have wrote up an article covering the advancement of weapon lights while maybe also noting a couple of examples along the way, but unfortunately not. I managed to come up with next to nothing, which surprises me for a multitude of reasons.

For those who might be wondering why I'd want an objectively obsolete piece of tech on this rifle, rather than modern equipment, the answer is simple: keeping with the aesthetics. It's my intention to restore this rifle to pre-demill condition, short of F/A of course. A light was clearly mounted on this weapon, imo, given the location of the velcro strip.

Otherwise, I ordered a complete jig kit from 5D tactical, which comes with 5 billet lowers, so I'll have some lowers I don't particularly care about to practice on. I'd rather not botch the nodak lowers trying to learn. One thing about those nodaks does concern me, however. The fact that their safety detent hole isn't drilled. Seems like a fairly precise operation that's completely left up to me. I also noticed that the rear shelf is completely unmilled, where most other 80% are milled. I'm not convinced that will be an issue yet, just something noteworthy.

Earlier this week, my franklin binary trigger came in, and I decided to install it into another project rifle to give it a go. Thus far, I really can't say I'm too awful impressed. I haven't had a chance to live fire it (probably Tuesday), but the selector switch makes me wonder just wtf they were smoking. I knew it would be ambi, and that I'd have to live with that if I wanted the binary at all. I also knew it would look more correct than Fostech's offering. I was also aware that it wasn't exactly 100% GI either.

That said, holy gap batman. I'm generally not one to nitpick, but for some reason, Franklin decided to leave a *massive* gap between the selector switches (both sides) and the receiver itself. I assume this is to clear for the lawyer sticker that you're supposed to put on, but I'm confident I could fit about two dozen lawyer labels between this thing. With calipers, I measured 2.48mm (.097) of gap. The original lower's selector switch measures .09mm (.0035). 27.5 times more gap. I don't have a good photo atm, but I intend to take one.

Again, I generally don't nitpick, but this feels just excessive imo. The trigger itself seems to *work* just fine, however. Again, no live fire testing as of yet. Anyway, that's where I'm going to leave it for now.

Looks like they only sell 1/2-28 threading where the Colt 9mm threading is 1/2-36.