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Posted: 1/29/2018 5:32:10 PM EDT
[#1]
M193 or M855...no need for the 'spensive stuff. Carbine courses are designed to inure shooting and handling skills so they become reflexive/Pavlovian.
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Posted: 1/29/2018 6:05:26 PM EDT
[#2]
Federal/LC or IMI XM193
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Posted: 1/29/2018 7:59:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Don't some courses tell you what to run now?
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Posted: 1/29/2018 8:31:21 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't some courses tell you what to run now? |
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Posted: 1/29/2018 9:30:24 PM EDT
[#5]
I normally just use Fed American Eagle .223....
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Posted: 1/29/2018 9:45:02 PM EDT
[#6]
I've used Wolf Gold in one and IMI M193 in another. I've stacked deep on both. Really not much difference.
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Posted: 1/29/2018 10:01:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Either will be fine...
You should be able to shoot 600 rounds a day with nothing more than maybe a spritz of lube on the BCG. You WILL Clean your AR at the end of Day One Very VERY Well... Almost any Non Steel Core American 5.56 / .223 will run fine. I'd stay away from anything steel cased for your training class. If you run short and borrow some brass cased ammo, after shooting lots of steel cased ammo, you are asking for jams... BIGGER_HAMMER 
P.S. -Where you going for Training? |
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Posted: 1/29/2018 11:34:57 PM EDT
[#8]
Wolf Gold is warmer than most 223- not a problem. LC, PPU, IMI, PMC, etc.
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Posted: 1/30/2018 9:56:47 AM EDT
[#9]
Might get me bashed, but if you can find it, Hornady 55gr training ammo is awesome.
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Posted: 1/30/2018 10:57:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Either will be fine... You should be able to shoot 600 rounds a day with nothing more than maybe a spritz of lube on the BCG. You WILL Clean your AR at the end of Day One Very VERY Well... Almost any Non Steel Core American 5.56 / .223 will run fine. I'd stay away from anything steel cased for your training class. If you run short and borrow some brass cased ammo, after shooting lots of steel cased ammo, you are asking for jams... BIGGER_HAMMER
P.S. -Where you going for Training? Training is with VATA. It’s my first carbine course but I’ve taken several pistol courses with them. Great guys that seem to have realistic training curriculum. VATA |
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Posted: 1/30/2018 6:24:04 PM EDT
[#11]
I used 1k rounds of LC xm193 in my last 2 classes. I just lube up after day 1.
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Posted: 1/30/2018 10:38:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
What's your go to carbine course ammo? If you are going to put 1200 rds down over 2 days, what's your 5.56 choice? I've stacked on Federal LC XM193 but I always thought it seemed dirtier than PMC or PPU. Could be a misconception on my part though. I know most like Wolf Gold but would like to keep it 556 NATO. Looking for sub $0.40 / rd on bulk pricing. So not cheap but not MK262 either. Train how you fight ............... all that crazy stuff. That way you can have confidence in your SHTF/Carry/Duty stuff? |
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Posted: 1/30/2018 10:43:09 PM EDT
[#13]
IMI M193 for .24/rd delivered.
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Posted: 1/30/2018 10:43:48 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why don't you shoot what already carry? Train how you fight ............... all that crazy stuff. That way you can have confidence in your SHTF/Carry/Duty stuff? 
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Posted: 1/30/2018 10:48:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Wolf Gold or Xm193
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Posted: 1/31/2018 12:51:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryWell that depends on what your load is........................
But then if you use XXXX for training why not use that for "the real thing?" There's no point to finding out wwww brand ammo works great in your rifle, get zeros, and have confidence in it, only to switch to something you don't. ?? |
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Posted: 1/31/2018 1:04:57 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well that depends on what your load is........................ But then if you use XXXX for training why not use that for "the real thing?" There's no point to finding out wwww brand ammo works great in your rifle, get zeros, and have confidence in it, only to switch to something you don't. ?? Anything shot over distance for accuracy, will need the accurate ammunition your zeroed with. |
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Posted: 1/31/2018 1:21:16 AM EDT
[#18]
The imi for 0.24 per round lately would be it.
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Posted: 1/31/2018 1:26:28 AM EDT
[#19]
The only gun I run Steel cased ammo is an AK, because it was meant for Steel Cased ammo.
A lot of people will argue that with the cost savings on Steel Cased, you can offset the faster barrel wear (rom bi-metalic bullets) and possible damage to bolt / extractor. I'd rather run what I already run and avoid the potential problems that steel can cause over time. Yes, it does cost less. Yes, if you shoot a LOT of it (vs. brass) you could save enough money over 5,000 - 10,000 rounds to offset a new barrel / Bolt. But if you are paying for training and don't want to be "That Guy" who keeps mucking up and slowing down the class because you are using a lot of the instructors time due to "issues" ... I'd advise use in training what you would use in Serious Times. Your training will show you what gear really works well, and what gear sounded good at the time, but just doesn't cut it in the real world... Good Luck & Good Training! BIGGER_HAMMER
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Posted: 1/31/2018 1:41:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Cheapest that'll cycle your gun as long as the range allows it. Personally, I think you can do most carbine class training shooting .22 or 9mm, as long as they are reliable.
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Posted: 1/31/2018 11:56:17 AM EDT
[#21]
This course is CQB to 100 meters. My HD round is Black Hills MK262 or TAP 75 gr. No way I'm dropping $1000 on ammo for a carbine course to learn fundamentals and tactics.
I'm thinking train with LC 193 which is my SHTF ammo. I'll zero my carbine with it before the course. After the course, ill zero it back with MK262. IME, it doesn't make much difference inside 100 yards anyhow. |
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Posted: 2/1/2018 5:52:12 PM EDT
[#22]
I would rather have 223 than 556 for a course, assuming it will run my carbine.
I have no idea if this is valid thinking or not, but in my mind, 556 means more pressure, heat, and bbl wear, as compared to Wolf Gold or a 223 round. There's probably not enough difference to measure, but most of my carbines are overgassed anyway, and I don't have any reason to run hotter ammo just to shoot up a bunch of cardboard at 7 yards. |
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Posted: 2/4/2018 8:50:36 PM EDT
[#23]
I have used both, steel and brass and purposely so. If you can't get through a class with just steel, then you need a new set up.
I stack IMI, Wolf Gold and AE 5.56 as well as wolf steel. You don't know what you will need to use, make sure your main tool will function with everything |
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Posted: 2/4/2018 9:23:39 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This course is CQB to 100 meters. My HD round is Black Hills MK262 or TAP 75 gr. No way I'm dropping $1000 on ammo for a carbine course to learn fundamentals and tactics. I'm thinking train with LC 193 which is my SHTF ammo. I'll zero my carbine with it before the course. After the course, ill zero it back with MK262. IME, it doesn't make much difference inside 100 yards anyhow. Shoot your oldest lot and replace it with the fresh bought stuff........... Done. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 4:55:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If lc m193 is your shtf stuff then yes, shoot it! Shoot your oldest lot and replace it with the fresh bought stuff........... Done. |
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Posted: 2/6/2018 9:39:20 PM EDT
[#26]
Speaking for myself, I'd use something that I don't mind losing brass. I want all of my LC, Winchester, and Hornady brass back. They can keep the Federal, RP, PPU, PMC, or IMI.
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Posted: 2/8/2018 1:36:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Yeah I don’t reload so don’t really care about brass. Especially for 5.56. I do pick up my Hornady 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Creedmoor brass though. Maybe I’ll get into it one day.
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Posted: 2/8/2018 2:07:41 PM EDT
[#28]
OP, you'll like this...
http://www.sgammo.com/product/223-556mm-ammo/500-round-case-223-rem-silver-bear-62-grain-hollow-point-ammo-zinc-plated-ste |
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Posted: 2/9/2018 4:10:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Personally, if I wasn't rotating out older ammo in my class and buying new ammo just to shoot for a class I'd either buy the IMI or Wolf Gold mentioned earlier. Both reasonably priced, brass cased ammo that has a long track record of simply working across many different types of guns in all conditions.
Good ammo makes classes far more productive- if there is some issue with function- you know it's either something you're doing or some issue with the rifle, if you aren't hitting accurately- it's one less thing to try and diagnose....Either of those issues will take a lot of fun out of your class and your mind off of what you are supposed to be doing. Just eliminate that variable by using good ammo with a proven record and have a good time. |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 12:10:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Personally, if I wasn't rotating out older ammo in my class and buying new ammo just to shoot for a class I'd either buy the IMI or Wolf Gold mentioned earlier. Both reasonably priced, brass cased ammo that has a long track record of simply working across many different types of guns in all conditions. Good ammo makes classes far more productive- if there is some issue with function- you know it's either something you're doing or some issue with the rifle, if you aren't hitting accurately- it's one less thing to try and diagnose....Either of those issues will take a lot of fun out of your class and your mind off of what you are supposed to be doing. Just eliminate that variable by using good ammo with a proven record and have a good time. |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 10:22:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking for myself, I'd use something that I don't mind losing brass. I want all of my LC, Winchester, and Hornady brass back. They can keep the Federal, RP, PPU, PMC, or IMI. If you have a longer range class... consider it. |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 2:51:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hornady 75gr Steel match is accurate and reliable... I've never had an issue after 1,000's of rounds through numerous AR's. If you have a longer range class... consider it. 
Lately I've been shooting nothing but the AE mil grade using 5.56 primers 55 223 because I have so much of it. Don't want the brass back and it's really good, not better than match but more than good enough for carbine courses. I probably will bust open this case of Federal 77 5.56 and use that next. Not even close to FGMM 77. |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 9:06:13 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've got a few cases of it, been saving it for...something worthwhile. I even have a case of Lapua 223, back when it was being sold cheaper than the brass once fired itself was worth
Lately I've been shooting nothing but the AE mil grade using 5.56 primers 55 223 because I have so much of it. Don't want the brass back and it's really good, not better than match but more than good enough for carbine courses. I probably will bust open this case of Federal 77 5.56 and use that next. Not even close to FGMM 77. And how did the Lapua 55gr FMJ shoot for you ? ( accuracy wise ) |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 9:17:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Careful with the 5.56 FC 262 77gr... mine popped some primers. And how did the Lapua 55gr FMJ shoot for you ? ( accuracy wise ) I compared the Lapua 55 grain to Federal M193, Wolf Gold 55 223, AE 55 223, Remington 55 223, and Winchester M193. The results was disappointing as I didn't see what all the rage was about because there wasn't much deviation in the groups of ten each on two strings between them all. |
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Posted: 2/16/2018 10:46:47 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wolf Gold or Xm193 |
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Posted: 2/17/2018 11:35:17 PM EDT
[#36]
A carbine course? Any good M193 clone. A lot of places don't want M855 because it dings up their steel.
DMR stuff, something reliable and accurate enough to shoot as far as you need to. I go straight to MK262Mod1 clones. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 10:12:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
What's your go to carbine course ammo? If you are going to put 1200 rds down over 2 days, what's your 5.56 choice? I've stacked on Federal LC XM193 but I always thought it seemed dirtier than PMC or PPU. Could be a misconception on my part though. I know most like Wolf Gold but would like to keep it 556 NATO. Looking for sub $0.40 / rd on bulk pricing. So not cheap but not MK262 either. |
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Posted: 2/18/2018 5:46:14 PM EDT
[#38]
I have used wolf gold, wolf performance, xm 193, and imi 193 without any issues from any of them in any of my classes.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 12:10:31 AM EDT
[#39]
Well the course was a success and the XM193 did the trick. Actually shot some very impressive 25 and 50 meter groups. Only issue was trying to load stripper clips into a PMag. Not the most ideal.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:33:38 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well the course was a success and the XM193 did the trick. Actually shot some very impressive 25 and 50 meter groups. Only issue was trying to load stripper clips into a PMag. Not the most ideal. Beats using a spoon every time. |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 12:04:32 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well the course was a success and the XM193 did the trick. Actually shot some very impressive 25 and 50 meter groups. Only issue was trying to load stripper clips into a PMag. Not the most ideal. |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 3:36:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have used both, steel and brass and purposely so. If you can't get through a class with just steel, then you need a new set up. I stack IMI, Wolf Gold and AE 5.56 as well as wolf steel. You don't know what you will need to use, make sure your main tool will function with everything And I’m sorry, I don’t care if it’s a KAC or LWRC or whatever. If it doesn’t run steel it’s just about useless for civilian shtf scenarios. Let’s face it, civis are in the mist obvious position to have to use steel if shit runs low. Gov entities won’t run dry before we will. |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 4:34:27 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Guys hating on steel are hilarious. You don’t know what you’ll be forced to use if shtf does indeed come. What if you have to leave your house ASAP and don’t have time to load up your 8,000 rounds and only snag one AR and there is only steel where you end up? I guess you could cross that bridge when it comes but why not do it now, under no pressure? And I’m sorry, I don’t care if it’s a KAC or LWRC or whatever. If it doesn’t run steel it’s just about useless for civilian shtf scenarios. Let’s face it, civis are in the mist obvious position to have to use steel if shit runs low. Gov entities won’t run dry before we will. |
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Posted: 2/27/2018 10:01:39 PM EDT
[#44]
We use hornady steel case training ammo at work. It's shot in colts and sig mcx sbrs and I've never had any mom related issues.
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Posted: 2/28/2018 12:00:37 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Over gas the shit out of your gun and see how long it runs. But the good news is, it will run steel.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: This. Guys hating on steel are hilarious. You don’t know what you’ll be forced to use if shtf does indeed come. What if you have to leave your house ASAP and don’t have time to load up your 8,000 rounds and only snag one AR and there is only steel where you end up? I guess you could cross that bridge when it comes but why not do it now, under no pressure? And I’m sorry, I don’t care if it’s a KAC or LWRC or whatever. If it doesn’t run steel it’s just about useless for civilian shtf scenarios. Let’s face it, civis are in the mist obvious position to have to use steel if shit runs low. Gov entities won’t run dry before we will. |
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Posted: 2/28/2018 12:15:12 AM EDT
[#46]
I ran PMC no problem.
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Posted: 3/1/2018 3:01:38 PM EDT
[#47]
I haven't done a carbine course in years but in the past I've had great luck with IMI M193, PMC Bronze, Federal XM193AF and the Walmart Federal 100rd value packs. If I took a course today, I know newer stuff like Wolf Gold, Magtech M193, and Barnaul Mil-Spec is good to go.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This. Guys hating on steel are hilarious. You don’t know what you’ll be forced to use if shtf does indeed come. What if you have to leave your house ASAP and don’t have time to load up your 8,000 rounds and only snag one AR and there is only steel where you end up? I guess you could cross that bridge when it comes but why not do it now, under no pressure? And I’m sorry, I don’t care if it’s a KAC or LWRC or whatever. If it doesn’t run steel it’s just about useless for civilian shtf scenarios. Let’s face it, civis are in the mist obvious position to have to use steel if shit runs low. Gov entities won’t run dry before we will. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have used both, steel and brass and purposely so. If you can't get through a class with just steel, then you need a new set up. I stack IMI, Wolf Gold and AE 5.56 as well as wolf steel. You don't know what you will need to use, make sure your main tool will function with everything And I’m sorry, I don’t care if it’s a KAC or LWRC or whatever. If it doesn’t run steel it’s just about useless for civilian shtf scenarios. Let’s face it, civis are in the mist obvious position to have to use steel if shit runs low. Gov entities won’t run dry before we will. In fact, there was one carbine course I did nearly 10 years where brass cased ammo failed me and slowed me and the class down. Federal American Eagle XM-193, had a popped primer that got lodged between the charging handle and gas key that locked up my rifle HARD. The instructor had to stop and help me take the weapon apart so we fix it. No issues afterwards but I stopped shooting that ammo afterwards. Years later, Freedom Munitions does the same shit but fortunately not at a carbine course, any ammo that causes primers to pop out is garbage in my opinion. |
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Posted: 3/1/2018 3:44:13 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol....stop, being overgassed is really only going to hurt in mag dumps but I suspect u know this. But, he said nothing of overgassed. Each of my rigs run steel, if they don't, they aren't worth it |
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Posted: 3/1/2018 10:24:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The simple fact is that most steel ammo is under powered. The chronograph doesn't lie. So, if the gun is properly gassed for milspec M193, how does it run well with under powered ammo? It doesn't, it can't. Then people bitch that their rifle doesn't run with shit ammo. So, the manufacturers cut the ports larger, this is a well known fact. |
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Posted: 3/2/2018 8:59:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The simple fact is that most steel ammo is under powered. The chronograph doesn't lie. So, if the gun is properly gassed for milspec M193, how does it run well with under powered ammo? It doesn't, it can't. Then people bitch that their rifle doesn't run with shit ammo. So, the manufacturers cut the ports larger, this is a well known fact. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lol....stop, being overgassed is really only going to hurt in mag dumps but I suspect u know this. But, he said nothing of overgassed. Each of my rigs run steel, if they don't, they aren't worth it 3 or 4 o'clock, 150fps or so....doesn't matter and isn't resulting in failure or issues. If you have problems getting it up, go Viagra. If you have problems with steel, get a new gun |
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