I might be poking the bear on this one; I'm also well aware of the minimum required OAL to run a 90-degree VFG on a pistol, but would anyone happen to know the legalities of using or cutting a canted VFG in half to the point of practically making it into a hand stop? (i.e. BCMGUNFIGHTER Vertical Grip Mod 3). When I say canted, I mean a grip that's about 80-degrees from the barrel; not 90-degrees.

I've seen countless videos and pictures of people using or cutting canted foregrips and running them on their AR pistols alongside the Law Tactical Folder (which is what I have with a 10.5" barrel). My understanding when measuring an AR with that folder is by measuring it from the end of the folded position to the end of the barrel threads (or muzzle if it's pinned and welded). I know for certain these pictures of these AR's not meeting the 26" OAL requirement because the OAL now doesn't come close to 26" especially with sub 11" barrels.

I'm asking because using a VFG as a hand stop and the way I grip my gun has always been more comfortable to me than using a conventional hand stop. So with that being said, I know an easy fix is either filing a Form 1, running a hand stop (which I have), not using anything at all, or not even ask questions like this. But specifically speaking for this situation, can it be done? Can you really use or cut a canted VFG to the point of no full grip and it be okay to use as a hand stop on a pistol? Or does the ATF not have a definitive ruling over this?

Unfolded, my AR pistol comes to a total length of about 26.2" from the end of the tube to the end of my barrels threads.
Folded, my AR pistol falls short of 26".

Cheers.

BCMGUNFIGHTER Vertical Grip Mod 3

WITH the things that most likely coming in with biden and there clearly stated agenda the farther you can stay away from them the better. raise no red flags now days............ stay far away from grey areas too...............

Welcome to the forum. You are not likely to get very many responses considering the legalities involved and this being your first post.

I would look back at previous threads and go from there.

No sir, Mr ATF man, no one on this forum would ever think about even toying with the idea of putting any type of VFG on pistol, regardless of the degree of angle, as that could very well be perceived as a violation of NFA regulations.

I do everything I can to always stay within the ATF regulations and not go “out of bounds” just to avoid it becoming an issue - however, now its reached the point it’s like having an ex-wife and doing your best to ensure you avoid doing anything that could lead to conflict... regardless of your best effort, she is going to find something you did wrong.

Just buy a legal hand stop, and not fuck around with cutting a fucking grip up. Jesus christ.

People used to say the same ol jargon prior to AFGs became a thing. Same with a simple rubber cane foot on the rear of a pistol receiver extension. Same before braces became a thing. IF something is to be deemed 'unlawful' then they MUST clearly outline what THEIR written parameters are. We work OUTSIDE of those parameters in order to COMPLY lawfully, not just SUBMIT and work within ATF's 'intentions'. Words mean things.

Since we now know that the ATF has apparently decided that...



...you might want to avoid anything grip-related forward of the pistol grip.  Your call.  I am not a lawyer; this is not legal advice.


https://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/58-64.pdf

Adding a second 'vertical' grip has been considered as making a non pistol for a loong time. You end up with a ''Firearm'' or an AOW, depending on the OAL of the weapon. Adding a shoulder stock trumps both since the weapon is then intended to be shoulder fired, and is a rifle.
It's all pointless anyway considering a plain handguard is still a second location for a second hand to grasp the weapon. Why on Earth would it matter what orientation the second hand is angled WHEN GRASPING THE WEAPON.....it's still a second freaking hand on the weapon! Plus, most everyone besides John Wick uses a second hand when shooting a pistol anyway. Most factory pistols/handguns are literally DESIGNED and INTENDED to shoot with a second hand, so they aren't even real pistols by definition. BRAINLESS nonsense made up by brainless imbeciles!!!!!!

Using two hands on a pistol was not a regular thing until the second half of the 20th century. Nobody used two hands to shoot a 1911 or S&W revolver when the nfa was drafted in 1934. That is why they wrote it that way.
The purpose of the nfa was not to combat the gangsters of the day, it was because the gov stole everyone's gold in 1933 with the gold confiscation act. Initially an executive order #6102, The federal reserve or US Treasury no longer redeemed paper money into gold, and forced citizens to turn in their gold for paper money. In January of 1934, congress made it official.
The NFA was written up to try and take citizens guns to keep them from killing everyone in govt. Pistols were almost added to the list, but removed at the last minute. Imagine having to fill out a form 4 and pay a tax for every pistol you own.

Yea, I've heard this mentioned before, using one hand to shoot pistols once was the norm.
Here we are today left with a definition of pistols that is all but worthless. My point is about what's going on here and now. Trying to make NEW opinions about grips and their angles is simply ridiculous. If a second hand has any role in the weapons original design or intended use, it's not a pistol by definition, it would simply be a ''firearm'' or an AOW. The ''capable of being concealed'' in an AOW's definition is ridiculous also, it's all based on opinion and has no consistency value. ''Capable of being concealed'' can change based on clothing or the shooters size, and even their ambitions. 26'' is a made up opinionated number to try to salvage the AOW flawed definition. Again, imbeciles came up with these definitions.
Also, logically, a rifle could still be a pistol due to the ''originally'' part of it's definition. Let's say you have a weapon that was ''originally'' designed, made and intended to shoot with one hand, you have a pistol. Adding a shoulder stock doesn't change the fact that it was still ''originally'' designed, made and intended to fire with one hand, remaining a pistol. What you have is a weapon that now fits both weapons definitions....take your pick. A 7 year old could have did a better job of defining a pistol, trying to work around nonsense to fit modern weapons just makes more nonsense..

Your honor, I have an mlok "accessory attachment platform" around my barrel, not a "handguard", designed to allow easy attachment of various accessories.  Note the front sight, flashlight, and sling swivel attached to the accessory platform, that could not be easily attached otherwise. Also note the lack of any forward grip or hand stop that could be used to safely grasp the firearm forward of the pistol grip...


Written for entertainment purposes only. I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice.

It's a handGUARD. It keeps you from burning your hand on the barrel or gas tube when you have finished shooting.

How many handguns have the trigger guard contoured for the purpose of placing the off hand index finger there in with 2 hand grip? The design remains popular even though the technique of using it as a finger rest went away a long time ago.