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Posted: 9/15/2023 10:22:22 AM EST
[#1]
Since Beretta owns Sako, there's bound to be a family resemblance:
https://www.overtdefense.com/2023/03/28/finland-sweden-select-sako-rifles/ |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 11:40:55 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Since Beretta owns Sako, there's bound to be a family resemblance: https://www.overtdefense.com/2023/03/28/finland-sweden-select-sako-rifles/ That seems more AR15 based while the NARP is nearly a direct copy of the Sig MCX. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 3:54:16 PM EST
[#3]
I like it, and I'll buy one at $1600 or less.
I like the ARX too, and am mad at myself for not grabbing one back when they were $800 or less. 
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Posted: 9/16/2023 4:27:22 PM EST
[#4]
It seems like the firearm design hasn't move on that much. Similar to 1911 in pistol world, Eugene Stoner and original Armalite team's AR10/15/18 design from mid-1950/1960s continue to dominate in this century. All we see are refinements of the basic AR by various manufacturers.
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Posted: 9/16/2023 4:49:57 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Beretta: Hey Sig, can I copy your homework? Sig: Sure, just make it look a bit different so teacher won't find out or we'll get in trouble. Beretta: K, no prob bob. Sponge Bob narrator: two weeks later: Sig: Bro, wtf. Beretta:  SIG: Hey HK, you okay if I just crib your notes? HK: Sure, I stole the outline from Enfield. Enfield: He sure did, I took 'em from Sterling. Sterling: Yeah, Enfield did fuck us in the ass and stole it. But we took 'em from Costa Mesa and Armalite. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 5:45:30 PM EST
[#6]
Supposedly the "New Assault Rifle Platform" isn't the final name that will be selected. I hope it's something that will be well thought out and catchy and not a dud like "Beretta 90Two", Walther Creed, or Colt Expanse.
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Posted: 9/16/2023 5:55:06 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Supposedly the "New Assault Rifle Platform" isn't the final name that will be selected. I hope it's something that will be well thought out and catchy and not a dud like "Beretta 90Two", Walther Creed, or Colt Expanse. How about Beretta AR-SE. You know what I mean. Not that...... It is "Assault Rifle Special Edition"
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Posted: 9/16/2023 6:09:12 PM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How about Beretta AR-SE. You know what I mean. Not that...... It is "Assault Rifle Special Edition" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Supposedly the "New Assault Rifle Platform" isn't the final name that will be selected. I hope it's something that will be well thought out and catchy and not a dud like "Beretta 90Two", Walther Creed, or Colt Expanse. How about Beretta AR-SE. You know what I mean. Not that...... It is "Assault Rifle Special Edition" The Beretta MCX seems pretty fitting... Think Sig would mind? |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 9:33:32 PM EST
[#9]
I don’t know why everyone seems to think SIG invented putting a rail on an AR18.
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Posted: 9/17/2023 7:11:00 PM EST
[#10]
The only thing Sig MCX has in common with AR180 are the two recoil springs and gas block. It is mostly ar 15. Just look at the carrier it self, it is Ar15 cut in half. Sure the recoil system is unique, designed to work with Ar15 carrier and dual recoil springs. Even bolt on the original MCX was backwards compatible with AR. Conceptually, there is nothing new about the design. I would dare to say that Sig redesign the AR15 platform to feature true piston operating system vs. retro fit upper to an existing AR lower (Hk 416, Sig 516, LWRCi etc…). Sig cleverly put it all together.
In fact there really isn’t anything new with most designs. There are simply versions of other systems assembled together. Now don’t get wrong there are some extremely well executed weapons. |
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Posted: 9/17/2023 7:35:15 PM EST
[#11]
Rails and mlok. Needs a flashlight and a couple more pounds of battery powered bullshit for the LARPers on this site.
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Posted: 9/17/2023 8:03:24 PM EST
[#12]
With folding stock its clearly more AR18/MCX then AR/416
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Posted: 9/17/2023 9:23:05 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don’t know why everyone seems to think SIG invented putting a rail on an AR18. What's actually funny is that if you found the old AR-180B machines in a barn somewhere and made an NDS style lower receiver, you could mount a rail and school some ass head to head with a lot of these new designs looking for customers. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 5:15:10 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like it, and I'll buy one at $1600 or less. Me too, and I’m in at < $1800. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 8:29:34 AM EST
[#15]
I honestly don't know why Beretta even keeps trying or how they keep the doors open and the lights on. Aside from their shotguns and the 92, the rest of their stuff has alway been fugly, gimmicky, cheesy, and regularly discontinued and replaced with something else equally as fugly, gimmicky, and cheesy.
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Posted: 9/18/2023 9:03:47 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah okay. To me that is the only attractive feature of a piston gun so that's good. Proprietary makes it less cool though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: No it can take a proprietary folding stock. Ah okay. To me that is the only attractive feature of a piston gun so that's good. Proprietary makes it less cool though. Folding stocks aren’t a feature of a piston gun. There have been piston guns with AR buffers and DI guns with folding stocks |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 9:05:25 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I understand a lot of the European markets want a piston rifle because they don't like the hot gasses blowing into the shooters face. I do know Estonian had a requirement that their rifles not blow gas into the shooters face and LMT won that contract over the Sig MCX platform. What did LMT win with? Was the gas listed as the reason LMT won? |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 10:18:23 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Me too, and I'm in at < $1800. Not the first time Beretta blows their price range in the US I've been wrong before. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 3:54:08 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imo this will never be below 2k (at least) Beretta is literally selling a TEC-9 for $1500 and the mags are $50 each. This thing is hitting shelves at $2450, with a little tag hanging off the trigger guard that says, "COMPARE WITH SIG SPEAR LT!" |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 4:16:33 PM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Beretta is literally selling a TEC-9 for $1500 and the mags are $50 each. This thing is hitting shelves at $2450, with a little tag hanging off the trigger guard that says, "COMPARE WITH SIG SPEAR LT!" |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 4:50:43 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I honestly don't know why Beretta even keeps trying or how they keep the doors open and the lights on. Aside from their shotguns and the 92, the rest of their stuff has alway been fugly, gimmicky, cheesy, and regularly discontinued and replaced with something else equally as fugly, gimmicky, and cheesy. Beretta always had his back covered by Italian Govt contracts… when the Army wanted a new gun it had to be beretta. There was no way to go bankrupt. Just like Fiat.. every single truck or car for all armed forces and police came from them. Things have finally changed for vehicles lately and we see more foreign brands. But beretta really won the lottery with the M9 for the US armed forces. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 6:01:05 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Imo this will never be below 2k (at least) Not the first time Beretta blows their price range in the US I've been wrong before. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Me too, and I'm in at < $1800. Not the first time Beretta blows their price range in the US I've been wrong before. The Beretta ARX (their previous rifle design) sold for $800-$1000 in the US. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 6:09:34 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Beretta ARX (their previous rifle design) sold for $800-$1000 in the US. IIRC it started much higher and they lowered the price to help with sales |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 7:00:43 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Beretta ARX (their previous rifle design) sold for $800-$1000 in the US. The MSRP of the ARX-100 was $1,950. You're quoting the blowout prices, which came after the accuracy issues were well known, and didn't last long. I honestly thought they were going to revise the design to ergonomically improve the front end, which would have been very cool. Now we see this pile of crap... |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 7:11:39 PM EST
[#25]
I guess it's too late to resurrect the AR 70/90. That was a cool looking gun, and it may still be in use in Italy to some extent.
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Posted: 9/18/2023 7:16:51 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess it's too late to resurrect the AR 70/90. That was a cool looking gun, and it may still be in use in Italy to some extent. I prefer the AR-70, and I have both:  Kinda crazy to think that Italy went from the AR-70, to the AR-70/90, to the ARX, to the thing in this thread.... They just keep getting worse and worse... like S&W autos... |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 3:32:34 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The MSRP of the ARX-100 was $1,950. You're quoting the blowout prices, which came after the accuracy issues were well known, and didn't last long. I honestly thought they were going to revise the design to ergonomically improve the front end, which would have been very cool. Now we see this pile of crap... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Beretta ARX (their previous rifle design) sold for $800-$1000 in the US. The MSRP of the ARX-100 was $1,950. You're quoting the blowout prices, which came after the accuracy issues were well known, and didn't last long. I honestly thought they were going to revise the design to ergonomically improve the front end, which would have been very cool. Now we see this pile of crap... I’d rather have this than the Quasimodo monstrosity known as the ARX-100. 
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Posted: 9/21/2023 3:37:39 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With folding stock its clearly more AR18/MCX then AR/416 https://i.ibb.co/CM6bzWW/Beretta-NARP-edit.jpg Judging by the QD type lever on what I’m guessing is the handguard mounting screw, I’d think this will have less loosey goosey handguard zero retention issues than the MCX does. Wonder if they’re using a similar barrel mounting system to the MCX or if it’s something completely different. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 9:11:24 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’d rather have this than the Quasimodo monstrosity known as the ARX-100. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The Beretta ARX (their previous rifle design) sold for $800-$1000 in the US. The MSRP of the ARX-100 was $1,950. You're quoting the blowout prices, which came after the accuracy issues were well known, and didn't last long. I honestly thought they were going to revise the design to ergonomically improve the front end, which would have been very cool. Now we see this pile of crap... I’d rather have this than the Quasimodo monstrosity known as the ARX-100. You just don't appreciate fine Italian design. The ARX is one sexy fish gun and easily the best of the Gen 3 rifles.  It's actually so Gen 3 that I had to buy 3 of them to help make up for the people that weren't buying them.But there are 2 reasons why it was a complete flop here in the US. Most of that is due to Beretta not even trying to support the thing after making a bunch of promises about what was coming. Then there's the people that were turned off by it's looks without even handling it. The Mini-14-ish accuracy reports didn't help either. Now how anyone could want a Beretta copy of the Sig MCX when I don't even like the Sig MCX? It just doesn't compute and I can't wrap my mind around it. 
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Posted: 9/21/2023 5:45:12 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now how anyone could want a Beretta copy of the Sig MCX when I don't even like the Sig MCX? It just doesn't compute and I can't wrap my mind around it. That was my point- if you are going to clone the competition, clone something that doesn't suck. IMAGINE if Beretta said, "We're doing the ACR/ Masada, true to the original concept, in high quality, and just different enough not to get sued by Spanklin Armory." People would be very excited, I would think. This sad pile of junk though? |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 6:10:39 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You just don't appreciate fine Italian design. The ARX is one sexy fish gun and easily the best of the Gen 3 rifles. It's actually so Gen 3 that I had to buy 3 of them to help make up for the people that weren't buying them.I have the ARX-100, .22lr but otherwise dimensionally identical. It is bulky, to be sure, but will absolutely shoot any .22 lr round reliably. When shooting my ARX-100 at the local range, I would entertain myself by picking up live .22 lr rounds that obviously had jammed and been ejected in other .22 rifles, and it would invariably chamber and fire them without issue. By far the most reliable .22 lr rifle I have owned, and I have had a few. That and the very quick ambi charging handle swap were very endearing. I will probably never sell it. Great SHTF .22 rifle. Can't speak for the .223 model since I have not owned one, but I must say I am intrigued. Wish I had bought one before they disappeared off the market. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 6:52:23 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the ARX-100, .22lr but otherwise dimensionally identical. It is bulky, to be sure, but will absolutely shoot any .22 lr round reliably. When shooting my ARX-100 at the local range, I would entertain myself by picking up live .22 lr rounds that obviously had jammed and been ejected in other .22 rifles, and it would invariably chamber and fire them without issue. By far the most reliable .22 lr rifle I have owned, and I have had a few. That and the very quick ambi charging handle swap were very endearing. I will probably never sell it. Great SHTF .22 rifle. Can't speak for the .223 model since I have not owned one, but I must say I am intrigued. Wish I had bought one before they disappeared off the market. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You just don't appreciate fine Italian design. The ARX is one sexy fish gun and easily the best of the Gen 3 rifles. It's actually so Gen 3 that I had to buy 3 of them to help make up for the people that weren't buying them.I have the ARX-100, .22lr but otherwise dimensionally identical. It is bulky, to be sure, but will absolutely shoot any .22 lr round reliably. When shooting my ARX-100 at the local range, I would entertain myself by picking up live .22 lr rounds that obviously had jammed and been ejected in other .22 rifles, and it would invariably chamber and fire them without issue. By far the most reliable .22 lr rifle I have owned, and I have had a few. That and the very quick ambi charging handle swap were very endearing. I will probably never sell it. Great SHTF .22 rifle. Can't speak for the .223 model since I have not owned one, but I must say I am intrigued. Wish I had bought one before they disappeared off the market. And the .22lr model of the ARX is made by Umarex. I've not heard much that's too bad about that rifle, but I did handle one at a gun store once and it did feel and look a lot cheaper than the real Beretta made ARX-100. The .22 version is more of a copy of the original ARX-160 in some ways, but it's still not identical. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 6:54:14 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was my point- if you are going to clone the competition, clone something that doesn't suck. IMAGINE if Beretta said, "We're doing the ACR/ Masada, true to the original concept, in high quality, and just different enough not to get sued by Spanklin Armory." People would be very excited, I would think. This sad pile of junk though? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now how anyone could want a Beretta copy of the Sig MCX when I don't even like the Sig MCX? It just doesn't compute and I can't wrap my mind around it. That was my point- if you are going to clone the competition, clone something that doesn't suck. IMAGINE if Beretta said, "We're doing the ACR/ Masada, true to the original concept, in high quality, and just different enough not to get sued by Spanklin Armory." People would be very excited, I would think. This sad pile of junk though? Yes! Too bad Beretta doesn't listen, because a Beretta Masada/ACR would be interesting. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 7:11:24 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was my point- if you are going to clone the competition, clone something that doesn't suck. IMAGINE if Beretta said, "We're doing the ACR/ Masada, true to the original concept, in high quality, and just different enough not to get sued by Spanklin Armory." People would be very excited, I would think. This sad pile of junk though? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Now how anyone could want a Beretta copy of the Sig MCX when I don't even like the Sig MCX? It just doesn't compute and I can't wrap my mind around it. That was my point- if you are going to clone the competition, clone something that doesn't suck. IMAGINE if Beretta said, "We're doing the ACR/ Masada, true to the original concept, in high quality, and just different enough not to get sued by Spanklin Armory." People would be very excited, I would think. This sad pile of junk though? Meh, I don’t get the hate for the MCX. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 8:36:12 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, I don’t get the hate for the MCX. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Now how anyone could want a Beretta copy of the Sig MCX when I don't even like the Sig MCX? It just doesn't compute and I can't wrap my mind around it. That was my point- if you are going to clone the competition, clone something that doesn't suck. IMAGINE if Beretta said, "We're doing the ACR/ Masada, true to the original concept, in high quality, and just different enough not to get sued by Spanklin Armory." People would be very excited, I would think. This sad pile of junk though? Meh, I don’t get the hate for the MCX. I can't say I really hate the MCX, or even this newer Beretta version of it... I really don't know what it is about it, but I just can't warm up to it and I just don't get it's popularity. Maybe the MCX is just an odd combination of everything I don't really care for all in one gun? But me not liking a gun is not such weird thing for me... I love the AR, but even a lot of the newer ARs out there are not for me. Maybe it's just that the MCX resembles some of those too much for my liking. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 9:49:53 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't say I really hate the MCX I hate the MCX. It can't hang with a well built AR... yet, why is the price so high? And how is SIG successfully marketing all these junk guns to DoD? I don't even think the SIG M17 can beat the SIG P226 head to head. Which makes me wonder- was LVAW wired for SIG, and now Beretta has a platform they can use to compete? THAT, would be a reason that makes sense for cloning the MCX... |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 9:58:37 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate the MCX. It can't hang with a well built AR... yet, why is the price so high? And how is SIG successfully marketing all these junk guns to DoD? I don't even think the SIG M17 can beat the SIG P226 head to head. Which makes me wonder- was LVAW wired for SIG, and now Beretta has a platform they can use to compete? THAT, would be a reason that makes sense for cloning the MCX... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can't say I really hate the MCX I hate the MCX. It can't hang with a well built AR... yet, why is the price so high? And how is SIG successfully marketing all these junk guns to DoD? I don't even think the SIG M17 can beat the SIG P226 head to head. Which makes me wonder- was LVAW wired for SIG, and now Beretta has a platform they can use to compete? THAT, would be a reason that makes sense for cloning the MCX... I mean, it’s not going to replace the standard AR, that’s for sure, but its pricing is inline with top tier ARs, or at the least very close to it. It’s definitely not super out of whack, especially if you go the upper conversion route, which when on sale, isn’t much more than a full priced G upper or other comparable mid/high range options. Not something that can be said for other platforms offering comparable features, namely the SCAR. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 10:04:12 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I hate the MCX. It can't hang with a well built AR... yet, why is the price so high? And how is SIG successfully marketing all these junk guns to DoD? I don't even think the SIG M17 can beat the SIG P226 head to head. Which makes me wonder- was LVAW wired for SIG, and now Beretta has a platform they can use to compete? THAT, would be a reason that makes sense for cloning the MCX... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can't say I really hate the MCX I hate the MCX. It can't hang with a well built AR... yet, why is the price so high? And how is SIG successfully marketing all these junk guns to DoD? I don't even think the SIG M17 can beat the SIG P226 head to head. Which makes me wonder- was LVAW wired for SIG, and now Beretta has a platform they can use to compete? THAT, would be a reason that makes sense for cloning the MCX... In blue highlight, that's the biggest thing that's been bothering me about SIG... It's more than fishy. Are competitions even being held anymore? Because it seems like they are just handing everything right to SIG with no questions asked. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:35:14 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In blue highlight, that's the biggest thing that's been bothering me about SIG... It's more than fishy. Are competitions even being held anymore? Because it seems like they are just handing everything right to SIG with no questions asked. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't say I really hate the MCX I hate the MCX. It can't hang with a well built AR... yet, why is the price so high? And how is SIG successfully marketing all these junk guns to DoD? I don't even think the SIG M17 can beat the SIG P226 head to head. Which makes me wonder- was LVAW wired for SIG, and now Beretta has a platform they can use to compete? THAT, would be a reason that makes sense for cloning the MCX... In blue highlight, that's the biggest thing that's been bothering me about SIG... It's more than fishy. Are competitions even being held anymore? Because it seems like they are just handing everything right to SIG with no questions asked. Companies learn how to play the game and some are better at it. Knights and Barrett are good at it as well. Everyone's favorite Kevin talked about the time he spent at Sig and they absolutely focused on getting some contracts which is why we got the Rattler and MCX. You have to remember that learning how to play the game is the most important part. I've read about reports where guns got disqualified because they didn't have the right accessory with them when they were submitted. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:44:07 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's more than fishy. Are competitions even being held anymore? Because it seems like they are just handing everything right to SIG with no questions asked. They start the competition, then they call it off early and randomly and inexplicably award to SIG, then they realize that not only is SIG shitty enough to Beta test on the Commercial market, but is willing to ship their deficient trash to the warfighter. The only real "testing" that takes place is after delivery of the weapons on the already awarded contract (JAN 17): "According to the Director of Operational Test and Evaluation, the guns experienced a number of issues in testing between April and September 2017, which is the end of the period the report covers. The first of these was a publicly known issue that the pistol could go off if the user dropped the weapon. Needless to say, an accidental discharge could be dangerous to the shooter or those around them. The Army discovered this issue during the initial “Product Verification Test...” Then they recall it... and instead of "Termination for Cause" followed by debarrment, they actually change the color of the controls, put out a SOUM, and write another contract with requirements that are perfectly wired for the MCX- Low Vis Assault Weapon/ LVAW. I will take back my criticism of the Beretta-C-X if comes in cheaper and higher quality than SIG, doesn't get Gen-ed out like a SIG, and steals all their customers. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 12:17:53 PM EST
[#41]
The M1911A1 we fielded to the Army and Marines from WWI though the 1980s was not drop safe but it worked out fine.
Just don't drop your sidearm and keep your trigger clear when not firing and your M17 will be safe. You know, things a trained firearm user should be doing anyway. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 4:10:56 PM EST
[#42]
Interesting.
Still not sure what it has to do with AR discussions in the AR15 section but interesting none-the-less. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 6:58:09 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting. Still not sure what it has to do with AR discussions in the AR15 section but interesting none-the-less. 
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