I'm looking for a suppressor host for my Deadair Sandman S and wondering if anyone that has shot both of these can compare how they feel when shooting and how they suppress?

I would like something with minimal gas to the face and smooth recoil impulse. From my understanding both of these should suppress well with the pws maybe having an edge with more gas settings.

As far as recoil feel it seems like PWS piston rifles should be more ar-di like in feel than other piston guns while the apc223 due to it's internal buffer and smooth action should also be very smooth.

Which one do you think will give me a more pleasurable shooting experience overall?

I've had two PWS, a mk 111 mod 1 and mk116 mod 2, and I have an APC223 12".

The PWS is a great system. The gas settings are fantastic, their long stroke has some benefits over other types of AR pistons, and overall I was very happy with them. I sold them both two throw more money at other stuff but I do miss the mod1. I run my stuff almost exclusively on LMT MARS lowers and it made a great setup. It's a propretary system, but when I emailed PWS, I was able to purchase a spare complete BCG for like $120 during peak covid panic. Use any AR style bolt, firing pin, cam pin you want. Biggest complaints:

1. Semi-Proprietary system (as most AR pistons are) but seemed as though I could get spare parts when I wanted them for a good price. The other bits are AR compatible so not a big deal.
2. The holes in the gas valve for adjustments weren't large enough to stick an m193 bullet tip into for leverage. I had to use the tool they provided after it started to get hot or stick with carbon to make adjustments.
3. Gas valve was pretty hard to remove after enough suppressed usage. I bent the supplied tool. Best bet is to pound it with a wooden dowel from inside the gas tube, or at least thats what I'd try if I still had it.




The APC223 is very, very smooth. The adjustable gas works great and the differences between the two settings is substantial enough to give you two options that don't feel like they are too similar. The gas adjustment is also easier to accomplish o nthe fly than the PWS becasue it's exposed. Being two position with 90 degree throw, its obvious what gas position you're currently in at just a glance. My biggest complaints about the APC:

1. It's very expensive.
2. Its a complete proprietary system and spare parts aren't always available.
3. The ambi bolt realease is hard to reach with my finger without breaking grip.
4. The forend isn't as sleek, comfortable, or easy to configure accessories as an AR style rifle.
5. Not all brands of QD mounts work with the top rail of the APC. Midwest Industries do, and they are generally my favorite.
6. I found sling mounting to be a bit more of a challenge, but I have the reciprocating charging handle version which played into that. The Pro upper will be better in that regard.
7. Depending on optic choice, charging handle can be a knuckle-buster on your optics mounts



Conclusion, both are functionally awesome. The PWS is easier to justify price wise and sustainability wise. The APC feels more exlusive if you're into that feeling and their machining is second to none. Both have been 100% reliable for me suppressed and unsuppressed. If you have an specific questions, I'll try to answer them for you.

thanks for the explanation, can you describe how the recoil impulse feels between the pws and apc223 of similar barrel length, is one more straight back or softer in the suppressed setting? How does gas to the face compare between the two systems suppressed? I'm also curious if there is a difference between how hot the handguard gets between the two systems when shooting a string of rounds

It's been awhile since I was behind the PWS and never shot it beside the APC, so take this wth a grain of salt, but initial reaction is to tell you the PWS was a little softer feeling. Again, that's memory basaed and my memory is flawed, just ask my wife.

As far as heat, They will both get hot but the PWS is easier to negate. You dont have many rail cover options for the APC that give you full coverage. Magpul type2 rail covers are my go-to for mlok systems. They keep your hand completely off the rail but allow heat to escape from the rail too. Not to mention easy to customize, great texture. Can't use them on the APC because of the handguard's profile. I wound up using polymer picatinny rail sections and slapping rail ladders on those to keep my hands off he hot handguard. It works, but not near as comfortable to grip as a circle of type 2 mlok covers on a slim AR handguard.


As far as gas to face, I never had a problem either either one. That said, I ran the PWS with a PRI gas buster from the get-go. I also only used a Rugged Razor 7.62 suppressor, which is on the lower side of backpressure for a traditional baffled can on a 5.56 according to PewScience. But both were pleasant, no stinging.

Another point to note, I had to upgrade to the MBT stock from B&T. The cheek comb of the standard folder was just not working well for me. The MBT is pricey, like all htings B&T, and the ACR stock isn't being produced anymore so you're not likely to find those for any cheaper. I really only advise the APC over the PWS if you want the cool factor and money isn't a concern. Otherwise the PWS is a better purchase for the average guy IMO. I still recommend PWS pretty regulalry to guys who run suppressed. I don't recommend an APC223 to anyone who is asking for a general, do it all rifle. It just doesn't make a ton of sense logistically. If it's for fun, you have a few AR's, and money isn't an issue, the APC woudl get my vote pretty much only then.

I've been behind a ton of different rifle designs, always chasing what's new and "improved." What I learned was the AR is still the ultimate fighting rifle. I appreciate it more now than before everything else I've owned over the years. It was a hard pill for me to swallow because I get bored with AR's, but IMO they are the best for a true "one-and-done" rifle.