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Posted: 3/27/2022 3:02:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Atpial-c is terrible, don't buy one.
Find a gray market full power or get a dbal d2 or something else. |
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Posted: 3/27/2022 3:40:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Get a Perst.
Oh wait 
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Posted: 3/28/2022 12:19:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Atpial-c is terrible, don't buy one. Find a gray market full power or get a dbal d2 or something else. What about it is terrible? I don’t want to waste my money. |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 6:02:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about it is terrible? I don’t want to waste my money. The illuminator sucks on most civilian models because of the restricted power. The DBAL D2 is the exception to that because it used a LED illuminator and is great even compared to full power units. The trade off is that is it a little larger overall. If your only using it at 50-75 yards then they are all fine but past that most civilian models are very weak. A full power unit will have a much better illuminator and laser. The illuminator is focusable where the civilian model is not. The down side is they are a grey market thing. You can buy and possess them all day long but if it ever breaks or needs service you’re most likely SOL since the manufacturers can’t and won’t return it to you. There are a few guys that can be found via Facebook or Reddit who can work on them but lately they have been declining do to do it seems. |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 11:05:57 AM EDT
[#5]
What he said.
The illuminator is just terrible. Think about it, even if you aren't planning to shoot at something much past 50 to 75 yards you might still want to be able to see what's going on way out in the distance. On a dark night, no moon(or before moon rise)or in a ravine or whatever, you can't do that without a good illuminator. I would argue that a good illuminator is more important than the laser if you can passively aim. |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 1:49:51 PM EDT
[#6]
Any opinions on the DBAL A-3? It can can be had for a discount right now.
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Posted: 3/28/2022 2:02:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Any opinions on the DBAL A-3? It can can be had for a discount right now. It sucks too. I went from A3 to D2 to MAWL. D2 is pretty much the only civilian powered IR laser worth the money if you aren't spending $3K on a MAWL. Kosher Surplus is amazing and they have D2s on sale for $1303 shipped when added to cart. If you don't have D2 money, save up. The A3, I2, ATPIAL-C are not worth it. At all. https://www.koshersurplus.com/product/steiner-optics-dbal-d2-ir-laser-visible-green-laser-led-ir-illuminator/ |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 5:17:38 PM EDT
[#8]
The A3 is a nice standard size and has a visible laser as a dedicated remote switch input. Other than that it’s no different then any other civilian options. Same laser and same illuminator with the info posted above.
A few friends use the A3 and they can be a solid unit if your within that 50-75 yards . Depending on what kind of deal you’re talking about it could be worth it. Once in a while Steiner will sell blem or factory refurbs that can be snagged around $650 and I’d honestly buy one at that price. |
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Posted: 3/28/2022 11:14:17 PM EDT
[#9]
I bought both of mine on the EE.
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Posted: 3/28/2022 11:27:53 PM EDT
[#10]
for the actual sighting laser beam civ legal is fine, the power restriction really matters on the illuminator. you can buy a civ legal dual or single laser, and slave a KIJI/surefire/modlight/arisaka IR light with a taps sync pad and be WAY better off than any of the civ legal laser illuminators with the exception of the mawl, and the mawl cost 1.5-2X more than the above listed combos.
I have a Arisaka IR250 head/ surefire body and tailcap with a perst 4 FP dual laser and a taps sync pad and its a great setup. usable past 100 yards easily. I rarely use the illuminator anyways. even the 120mw surefire scout vampire head puts the Dbal A3 to shame. the IR250 head is double the power. and the MODlite IR850 head is insane. like it auto gates your NVG bright. Good comparison video.  IR Illuminator Comparison 2020 Another video that shows the Arisaka IR250 head. I like my setup but if I were going it today I would look hard at laser/kiji 3 degree.  IR Illuminator Performance - MAWL vs Arisaka EX IR 250 vs Modlite IR-850 |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:12:39 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks for the info. I guess I have more research to do.
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Posted: 3/29/2022 2:32:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Buy a B.E. Meyers MAWL-C1+. Puts others to shame.
https://steeleindustries.com/product/b-e-meyers-mawl-c1-ir-visible-laser-nv/ https://strategicdark.com/products/b-e-meyers-mawl-c1-ir-visible-laser?variant=32185000001589 |
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Posted: 3/29/2022 5:55:22 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Buy a B.E. Meyers MAWL-C1+. Puts others to shame. https://steeleindustries.com/product/b-e-meyers-mawl-c1-ir-visible-laser-nv/ https://strategicdark.com/products/b-e-meyers-mawl-c1-ir-visible-laser?variant=32185000001589 This is the correct answer. I had a MAWL. Sold it to get a brand new full power PEQ-15. Instant regret. Sold that thankfully for what I had in it and got another MAWL. IMO - DBAL-D2 (low end of price range) or MAWL (buy once cry once). The illuminators on anything else are garbage unless you have no ambient light. Even a full moon stresses the illuminator on anything but full power, the D2 or the MAWL. |
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Posted: 3/30/2022 12:44:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On a dark night, no moon(or before moon rise)or in a ravine or whatever, you can't do that without a good illuminator. In these situations the Atpial C is perfectly fine. It's when you have to push past photonic barriers that it falls on its face. Where I have access to shoot at night, deep down in a ravine, out to about 150 yards, the C does everything I need it to. I never find myself using FP on my peq that I have either in this location. It's complete overkill. Owning multiple atpial C's as well as a FP peq, I can say that whether or not you should buy a C should depend on where you have access to shoot. Going to have mixed lighting conditions, photonic barriers? Find a FP. Short range, going to be pretty damn dark, you'll be just fine with a C |
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Posted: 4/1/2022 6:57:06 AM EDT
[#15]
Realistically, I won’t be shooting more than 200 yards at night. I don’t do a lot of hunting anymore either.
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Posted: 4/1/2022 7:33:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Realistically, I won’t be shooting more than 200 yards at night. I don’t do a lot of hunting anymore either. 200 yards will limit your options. You might be better of with getting a dedicated laser system and using the Modlite IR head for illumination. You can get a dual wire pressure switch and control both at the same time. That way you get much better illumination that a civilian model will perform and it will probably cost significantly cheaper. I figure around $350-$400 for a Modlite and pressure switch and you could use a OTAL-C laser. You can find them used around $300-400. |
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Posted: 4/5/2022 2:08:27 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get a Perst. Oh wait I bet their secondary market value just went up... |
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Posted: 4/9/2022 11:04:06 PM EDT
[#18]
I just saw a black one in stock last week.
It is now listed out of stock and discontinued. I know production was suspended, but I'm not sure they are completely discontinued, or just listed that way, rather than backordered. I bought an FDE one late last year, right before they started disappearing from the market. |
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