Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » Lights and Lasers
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 11/20/2019 3:35:09 AM EDT
EDIT: Did not realize I had an E2ST head in the intial review... E2HT review is later in thread. Corrections made to reflect the propper weaponlights.

I had an Arisaka 300 series on an ultralight build. It is a great light, but only 300 lumens on a 123 cell and limited range. I considered a Modlite 18350 light for the extra power,  but it is significantly larger and heavier, not to mention more expensive.

I also had an Arisaka 600 series version with Malkoff E2ST head that uses a 16650 battery on a duty rifle that was swapping out to a Modlite 18350, so I had a spare Malkoff 600 series head needing to be used on a long gun.

My thought was, I could use a similar 3.7v short cell (like how the Modlite uses an 18350 vs 18650) and only suffer less runtime and no 123 cell compatibility (just like Modlite).

There was a problem with that though... the short 123 sized lithium ion cell is the 16340 cell. Traditional lithium ion chemistry really does not work well in that tiny size. Not only is the capacity limited to 500-700 mah, it also has a draw limit of 2A or 3A before the protection circuit cuts it off for safety, and the higher the draw, the lower the capacity, sometimes not running at over 2A due to protection circuit, sometimes only 400 mah capacity due to lower capacity near max current limits.

The traditional lithium  ion chemistry inherantly requires a protection circuit to be "safe" either in the cell or light. The combination of the reduced room in a tiny cell 16340 cell from the protection circuit and the low draw due to cell size, results in the problems that makes traditional 16340 cells a poor solution for high current draw lights. The Malkoff 600 series heads are high draw, so I could not get more than 0-10 minutes out of a traditional 16340 protected cell. This simply would not do.

Then I discovered a new cell chemistry type recently released for the 16340 cell size. The battery is a 7A draw rated INR cell. INR is common in larger cell types, but unneeded for larger cells used in most flashlights. But these new 16340 INR cells have a capacity of 800 mah and dont suffer lower run times from high draw applications. The INR (Lithium Nickle Manganese Cobalt) cells are inherently safer, not requiring a protection circuit, and that combines to making it the best 16340 chemistry for tiny high draw lights.

The best battery out now for 16340 is the Vapcell 16340 INR 800 mah. These things are also cheap. Only $3.99 from 18650batterystore.com so I bought 4 to experiment with. The cells are light, only 18g vs 26g for my 18350 Keeppower protected 1200 mah.  Comparing my Modlite PLH and OKW heads they are twice the weight of the Malkoff E2HT/E2ST head, 64g vs 32g. The Modlite body is a tiny bit heavier, but the tailcaps for both are almost the same weight  at 13g for Arisaka and 14g for Modlite. The total weight difference, with battery installed, for complete lights minus mount is about 1.5 to 1.6 oz lighter for Arisaka vs Modlight. For an ultright build this is significant.

For output, the OKW at 69,000 candela smokes everything for throw, but the Arisaka E2ST has about the same total output, at over 500 lumens... the E2ST has pretty much the same throw/candela as the Modlite PLH, but less spill brightness and spill width, but a hotspot of EQUAL brightness and the hotspot is TWICE as large! The E2ST SMOKES the 300 lumen Arisaka/E1 series head, the 300 lumen Surefire M300 head and the Surefire 500 lumen M300 head for output. The runtime on the 16340 INR is 20 minutes at essentially full power, 5 minutes of rapidly dropping power suitable for clearing indoors but not outdoors, and 5 minutes of moonlight mode that starts as a sub 40 lumen taclight and ends as just... better than your cell phone. Over discharge is under 2.5 volts and it was at 2.55 volts at 30+ minutes... so dim it was silly. Not worried about over discharge unless you accidentally leave the light on unattended.

For a purpose built light, I find that adequate runtime. If you can spare the 1.6 ounces and bulk of the Modlite 18350, it certainly has more power available. I will have to test self discharge of the Vapcell INR 800 mah 16340, but its not supoosed to be an issue.

If you want a tiny, ultra light, high output, 100m capable light, that hits with the big boys Modlites, you should give an Arisaka 300 body, 600 head, and Vapcell 16340 INR cell some thought. It works better than I hoped thus far.
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 3:22:22 AM EDT
[#1]

OKW with 18350


PLH with 18350


E2ST with INR 16340


E2HT with INR 16340

This shows beam profile differences... the brightness is close but not exact. The E2ST really is that bright, the hotspot that large, and the square corona off center.

The E2HT has less spill and the beam is uglier than the photo shows. More of a kaleidoscope effect as you rotate the light.

Looks like a complete Modlite with battery runs 4.5oz compared to 2.9 oz for the Arisaka with battery. So 1.6oz difference and less than 2/3 the weight overall (both with click tailcaps).
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 5:30:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Neat stuff.  Can you post a pic or two of the assembled light?

what did the cost come to for the light assembly?

Thanks
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 7:36:41 AM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for the great info
Link Posted: 11/21/2019 2:38:48 PM EDT
[#4]
It looks EXACTLY like an Arisaka M300... only it has an Arisaka M600 head... which looks identical. If you have seen an Arisaka M300 you have seen the modified light because they look identical. In fact, you would be hard pressed to realize if you mixed up the heads unless you turn them on. Also a Modlite OKW and PLH look identical other than one having a slightly larger LED in the reflector.

Cost should be exactly the same as an Arisaka M300 or M600. They might even allow you to order a complete M300 light, just with an M600 head direct from Arisaka. Or an M600, just swaping the M300 body. If so, cost is $175 for a M300 or $180 for an M600 from Arisaka. Modlite is $330-350 and requires you to buy the whole light package with a charger and 2 batteries. If you already have an Arisaka M300 or Surefire M300 the M600 Malkoff E2HT head alone is $145 from Arisaka.

Additional note... the INR 16340 is only 2 grams heavier than a Surefire 123 cell at 18g vs 16g.

I do have a crappy pic of a Modlite vs M300 for size reference and battery size reference pics. Forgive the potato pics.


Arisaka 300 vs. Modlite 18350


Keeppower 18650 vs. Keeppower 18350 vs. 16340 Vapcell


18350 Keeppower vs.16340 Vapcell
Link Posted: 11/22/2019 8:43:46 AM EDT
[#5]
Awesome, thanks.
Link Posted: 11/24/2019 4:29:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Do you have beamshots at >20yards?
Link Posted: 11/25/2019 1:22:18 AM EDT
[#7]
I’d been wondering if there was a rechargeable that would work in the 300 body with the 600 head.

Any idea if the 1000 lumen scout light head would work the 16340 battery?
Link Posted: 11/25/2019 5:36:26 AM EDT
[#8]
Very cool
Link Posted: 11/29/2019 2:03:06 PM EDT
[#9]
OP, do you have a 600U head in the 500-600 lumen range you could test with the 16340?
Link Posted: 12/4/2019 6:56:22 AM EDT
[#10]
The m600u uses two 123 cells that run 3.2v fresh, 3.0v nominal, 2.8v under load, and 2.0 volt dead. I do have an old m600 K2XC head that I am testing right now, but I do not have an m600u 1000+ lumen head at the moment... and I would not want to risk the over $200 head either as it would kill the warranty and then I could not sell it. The E2HT head is on sale for $129 at Malkoff right now.

Two 123 batteries run 6.4v fresh, 6v nominal, with a running load of 5.6v and 4.0v is dead. This is what the driver was designed to handle. Any lithium ion ICR, IMR or INR will be 4.2v off the charger, 3.7v under load, 3.4 volt almost dead. As you can see its at dead 2x123 voltage fresh off the charger as soon as you turn it on, but still needs cut to voltage for a single LED either way. It might work with a M600U 1000 lumen, but I have not tried it.

My old "dont care if I ruin it because its so old and weak" K2XC head runs fine on the 16340 INR Vapcell 800mah. But it is only a 200 lumen head. I know it runs over an hour on a single 16340 Vapcell INR. Its noticably dimmer at 1 hour 10 minutes, but it never even got slightly warm to the touch. Battery was 3.69v at 1 hour 10 minutes. Its just a short range utility light though.

Keep in mind, the 1000+ lumen Surefire M600U has a THIRD the candela/lux the E2HT has (11,300 vs 35,000) so its not really punching in the same range IMO and not worth buying. Its just a bunch of spill in comparison. The E2ST is about twice the candela as a Surefire Scout M600U. The E2HT out throws the M600DF as well with over TWICE the candela/lux (16,000 vs 35,000) and E2ST is roughly the same as an HLX or PLH for candela. E2ST spill makes my old K2XC spill look like a joke as its twice as wide and multiple times brighter in the spill beam... there is an inner spill to the E2ST that is as wide as the old M600 spill, but the spill brightness is almost as bright as the hotspot of the K2XC.

If you are going to use a 16340 cell of any type... the INR Vapcell 800mah seems to be the top dog for now. I just ordered a few more they are so cheap and work so well. Also ordered another E2HT before they disappear.
Link Posted: 12/5/2019 1:17:30 AM EDT
[#11]
Thanks for the info. I better order some 16340s and a few malkoff heads...
Link Posted: 12/9/2019 8:16:10 PM EDT
[#12]
Well... I got my new E2HT head in and upon recieving it... realized it was NOT what I had for this review. After doing some research, I found out I had an out of production light that was only available for a short time.

What I had for this review was actually an E2ST, which has 650 lumens and 20,000 candela, NOT the E2HT, which has 500 lumens and 35,000 candela. The E2HT definantly DOES have more throw (still less than the Modlite OKW) but it has essentially NO spill to speak of and what it does have is streaky and messy due to a multipiece reflector designed to capture the most light and focus it forward that looks hand installed in 4 seperate pieces.

Slightly disappointed because the E2ST was really great overall but the only heads out there right now appeart to be the E2S and E2HT.

I will post beam pics and run time shortly... really sad here. Anyone want to trade an E2ST for a E2HT?

Made corrections to posts above to reflect correct head names...
Link Posted: 12/10/2019 12:22:21 AM EDT
[#13]
So I screwed up the first runtime test but the head was warm at 1 min., hot at 3 min., and dead as a doornail at 38 min. Ending voltage was 2.64 volts.

Second test, it ran full brightness for 15 min with a slight taper to 20 min. The drop off from 20 to 25 in reduced output mode was huge moving down 10 yards a minute from 100 to 50. The drop was equally huge from 25 to 30 min in moonlight mode. Really no spill to speak of at any reduced output. It got painfully hot at 5 to 20 min then cooled as the battery died. Ending voltage 2.65 volts.

Much happier with the old E2ST in every way but pure range in the hotspot. Malkoff said they stopped selling the E2ST once the E2HT was released... a shame, because the E2ST is better in every other way and is a good all purpose weapon light IMO.

The OKW is still twice as bright in the hotspot as E2HT with better all around utility.

E2HT beam above.
Link Posted: 12/12/2019 1:47:33 AM EDT
[#14]
DevL, I may have a couple E2ST laying around if you prefer those. I’ll dig around in the shop tomorrow.

For outdoor use I find the E2HT far superior. At all of our night shoots and demos the only light that can better ID targets at 100+ yards is the OKW. The close range characteristics of the hot spot and spill aren’t noticeable at all in range conditions.
Link Posted: 12/19/2019 10:05:11 AM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
DevL, I may have a couple E2ST laying around if you prefer those. I’ll dig around in the shop tomorrow.

For outdoor use I find the E2HT far superior. At all of our night shoots and demos the only light that can better ID targets at 100+ yards is the OKW. The close range characteristics of the hot spot and spill aren’t noticeable at all in range conditions.
View Quote
I agree 100% that at range the E2HT outperforms the E2ST because neither if the lights spill is visible at distances of 50+ yards and only the OKW beats the E2HT... but OKW beats it quite handily. If you have any E2ST you would sell, I would pay current list price for an E2HT from Malkoff or just mail you my E2HT head for an E2ST head. I will clear some room in my inbox as it is usually full.

If you want better target ID the last hour of range time at dusk, only the E2HT and OKW make a significant difference in your scope view. The others are too dim and do not give a noticable difference with that much ambient light.
Link Posted: 1/21/2020 11:39:23 PM EDT
[#16]
@DevL

Will my Nitecore D2 charger work with the Vapecell INR 16340?
Link Posted: 2/13/2020 9:43:37 AM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
@DevL

Will my Nitecore D2 charger work with the Vapecell INR 16340?
View Quote
Yes, its a regular 3.7v battery, like all regular lithium ion batteries. You only need specific chargers for barreries that have different voltage like 3.2 volt LiFePO4 cells.
Link Posted: 2/13/2020 6:11:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Yes, its a regular 3.7v battery, like all regular lithium ion batteries. You only need specific chargers for barreries that have different voltage like 3.2 volt LiFePO4 cells.
View Quote
Thank you good sir!  Just got my 600 head, off to order some Vapcell 16340s!
Link Posted: 2/29/2020 10:08:13 AM EDT
[#19]
The new Malkoff heads that came out yesterday are interesting. I
May have to snag one and try it with a 16340. 500 lumens and 50k lux will be an upgrade over my old 600U heads anyway.
Link Posted: 3/24/2020 9:41:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do you have beamshots at >20yards?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Do you have beamshots at >20yards?


Sorry,  no long range beam shots. This was just something I felt like sharing while sitting in my living room and I had a bunch of lights and my potatoe camera on my cell phone nearby.

Quoted:
OP, do you have a 600U head in the 500-600 lumen range you could test with the 16340?



Not anymore... sold the 600 lumen Surefire to fund more Modlites.


If anyone wants to sell an old ST... head hit me up. I will pay for a new Malkoff E2XT head shipped to your address in the 48 as an exchange. Really want another ST head like the one I already have.

For anyone considering the E2XTD and 16340... be aware, you will get about 1/3 the run tume as a 16650 Keeppower at that draw level. That means 3-5 minutes only! The E2XT should run 15-20 minutes on a 16340, just like a pair of 123 cells. To me, 15-20 minutes is my minimum run time for a serious weaponlight. That was the run time of the highoutput lamps in old Surefires back in the day, for anyone old enough to remember that (P61 and P91 lamps). I'm sure you could swap in 16340 cells a couple times during a night of hog hunting or something, but I would not want to rely on light that might drop in output precipitously after just 3 minutes for self defense!
Page AR-15 » Lights and Lasers
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top