User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
NC, USA
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Posted: 3/3/2023 9:36:51 PM EDT
With all the new lights coming out every month, it's hard to keep up with what is good now or out dated. I have 2 500 lumen weapon lights still. I can't figure out if I want to part with them to try out the new surefire turbos or not. This week it's candela, next week will be lumens again. I guess what I'm asking is it time to upgrade my weapon lights on my do it all rifles?
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Posted: 3/3/2023 10:14:03 PM EDT
[#1]
500 lumens is serviceable. Just depends how far of a throw you want on your light. And ask yourself if you think you will be shooting
If it's just the intensity measurement you are talking about (lumens vs candela). Then just convert. https://www.calculatorology.com/lumens-to-candela-calculator/ |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 10:17:10 PM EDT
[#2]
Can you see with them? I say better than no light
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Posted: 3/3/2023 10:20:40 PM EDT
[#3]
Hold on sparky. Slow your roll.
500 is still good for building/house and out to 50 yards. Maybe more depending on your bezel and the throw it can produce. Is the SF turbo awesome? Yes it is and you can really stretch your legs with it. Maybe buy one and see. But don't sell the others yet. |
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Posted: 3/3/2023 11:02:17 PM EDT
[#4]
Just move them to the backup, backup, backup rifle after you buy a new one.
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Posted: 3/4/2023 12:50:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: jasonm4]
[#5]
Isn't it a combination of lumens and candela that determines the usual and desired output?
For example, my Surefire M300C is 500 lumens with 7600 candela. Good for a flood type illumination with tons of spill for maybe up to 50 yards. My Arisaka Malkoff E2XTL is also 500 lumens with 55000 candela. It's has a nice fucking hot spot out to ~200 yards but also has plenty of spill for close up work. Eta. Hell, Surefire's M600DF claims 1500 lumens but with only 16000 candela. Compared to Modlites OKW putting out 680 lumens but a whopping 69000 candela. It completely blows Surefire out of the water in performance, especially for distance. So from my understanding, you can't simply go by lumen output. |
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Posted: 3/4/2023 2:01:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jasonm4: Isn't it a combination of lumens and candela that determines the usual and desired output? For example, my Surefire M300C is 500 lumens with 7600 candela. Good for a flood type illumination with tons of spill for maybe up to 50 yards. My Arisaka Malkoff E2XTL is also 500 lumens with 55000 candela. It's has a nice fucking hot spot out to ~200 yards but also has plenty of spill for close up work. Eta. Hell, Surefire's M600DF claims 1500 lumens but with only 16000 candela. Compared to Modlites OKW putting out 680 lumens but a whopping 69000 candela. It completely blows Surefire out of the water in performance, especially for distance. So from my understanding, you can't simply go by lumen output. Lumens is total photons. Candela is density. Or something. Surefire is getting wrecked by cheap lights. I’ll keep mine and scrounge for used ones to play light legos with Malkoff or whatever upgrades. Love the way they look and function but my olight and fenix are much more impressive. Budget is becoming increasingly limited. Can’t beat 3000 lumens for $119. TK20R v2. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2023 2:09:16 AM EDT
[#7]
For the theoretical shooting I might ever be involved with, the 600 lumen, hell even the one 200 lumen, G2X's I have are more than adequate for the task.
Can someone with experience with the topic tell me why I'd ever need a 200 yard white light on a rifle? Legit question. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2023 2:11:18 AM EDT
[#8]
Originally Posted By gambleandlost: With all the new lights coming out every month, it's hard to keep up with what is good now or out dated. I have 2 500 lumen weapon lights still. I can't figure out if I want to part with them to try out the new surefire turbos or not. This week it's candela, next week will be lumens again. I guess what I'm asking is it time to upgrade my weapon lights on my do it all rifles? Iraq and Afganistan were taken down in 2002-2003 by rifles with 65lm Surefires and Pentagon lights. I'd only upgrade a light if its going to be used outdoors at some distance, and focus only on Candella as thats what determines effective range. In your house the old 65lm from Iraq would still work fine; 500lm is way beyond fine in a house. |
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Posted: 3/4/2023 2:18:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperStormBryan: For the theoretical shooting I might ever be involved with, the 600 lumen, hell even the one 200 lumen, G2X's I have are more than adequate for the task. Can someone with experience with the topic tell me why I'd ever need a 200 yard white light on a rifle? Legit question. It’s easy to hide behind a light. Gotta have a brighter light to push back. Also using a 300-600 lumen light creates shadows around furniture. The 3000 Fenix floods a large room with light and purges shadows. Every second might matter. That’s all I’ve noticed so far larping around the basement. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2023 4:11:20 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Karankawa: It’s easy to hide behind a light. Gotta have a brighter light to push back. Also using a 300-600 lumen light creates shadows around furniture. The 3000 Fenix floods a large room with light and purges shadows. Every second might matter. That’s all I’ve noticed so far larping around the basement. The light saber battle is a good point you got there. I don't "think" its something I need to be too worried about, but its certainly true. Thanks bud. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2023 7:46:43 AM EDT
[#11]
The word “candela” legitimately irritates me.
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/4/2023 8:52:11 AM EDT
[#12]
Well, I just put a 450 lumen light on a rifle. Works fine in my house.
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Posted: 3/4/2023 9:38:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jhoyda1: Well, I just put a 450 lumen light on a rifle. Works fine in my house. Indoor use makes lights look bright because of reflective light coming off the walls and ceiling. If you want to know how well it actually works, go outside in an open field. |
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Posted: 3/4/2023 11:00:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FedDC: Indoor use makes lights look bright because of reflective light coming off the walls and ceiling. If you want to know how well it actually works, go outside in an open field. Or put a brighter light on your kids nerf gun and have him sit and wait for you. See how much photon horsepower it takes to overcome his light. |
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Posted: 3/4/2023 4:25:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Definitely useable but in the modern times of 1,000 lumens and 50,000 candela being the standard, there’s not many 500 lumen lights out there worth the asking price.
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Posted: 3/6/2023 8:28:24 AM EDT
[#16]
The 500 lumen Scout and X300U lights that were released in the 2011 time frame are still 100% serviceable, especially for shorter range use e.g. within 25 yards. The newer lights are trending towards much greater throw which is awesome as you get into medium ranges like 25-100 yards.
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GEO
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Posted: 3/6/2023 8:41:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 100roundclipazine]
[#17]
No you dont have to upgrade but its nice having the throw. I still run 350 lumen m640vs on my guns and they are perfectly fine to me. I used 200 lumen m600cs for years and they served me ok.
But I have used the DF lights and the Turbo and shit and some of them are lightsabers when its humid, like a beam of solid light. Really fun stuff. |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 8:47:57 AM EDT
[#18]
For self-defense rifles and carbines and outdoor use, probably not, but it's better than no light at all.
For self-defense pistols-Yes, plenty of light. You are very likely going to be closer than 25 yards (much closer, actually). For police use-I don't think so. I am not an LEO, but if I was, I would want to be able to essentially "turn on the sun" at will |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2023 11:49:08 AM EDT
[#19]
500 is plenty for me and what I would project to be most situations.
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Posted: 3/6/2023 12:14:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Its funny, wasn't that many years ago that 500lumens would be considered fantastic/top of the line now we are asking if they are useless? lol
OP - this is one of those situation where you can answer you own question. You already have the lights so run them at night in the types of environments that you would potentially use them for real in and see for yourself if they are "enough" As other have said, for HD (and within 50yrds) I think that's plenty for my purposes but you need to figure out what you need for your situation. |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 1:32:00 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SpankMonkey: Hold on sparky. Slow your roll. 500 is still good for building/house and out to 50 yards. Maybe more depending on your bezel and the throw it can produce. Is the SF turbo awesome? Yes it is and you can really stretch your legs with it. Maybe buy one and see. But don't sell the others yet. This. 95% of most people are fine with 500 lumens. I would maybe go a little more on a rifle if its gointo be outdoors but anything out past the reach of a 500 lumen in your yard or home makes 500 just fine. YMMV |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 1:33:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Inside your home, absolutely.
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Posted: 3/6/2023 1:37:09 PM EDT
[#23]
Op. Have you ever used your rifle light at night? 500 is more than adaquate. If it’s on a home defense rifle and you turn it on after you’re used to being in the dark (your eyes are acclimated) you’ll blind the bad guy and yourself. Practice a bit and see. I love insanely bright lights. Camping and such. I realized my ultra bright lights were so overpowered I couldn’t use them. The ones I could use on low were actually what was used, and generally on the lowest of low settings.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2023 1:47:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: thatguybryan]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SuperStormBryan: For the theoretical shooting I might ever be involved with, the 600 lumen, hell even the one 200 lumen, G2X's I have are more than adequate for the task. Can someone with experience with the topic tell me why I'd ever need a 200 yard white light on a rifle? Legit question. I use mine for hunting coyotes, hogs and bobcats at night. I killed a bobcat last year at about 65 yd with a white light and a vortex razor and it worked great. I was very happy to have as much light as I did using a scope at night (cloud defensive OWL). For home defense (inside), I’d say 500 lumens is plenty. If your house is completely pitch black, you may be able to get away with less lumens than if you live in a city with ambient street lighting and such (although the ambient light may negate the need for a weapon light as well). My new x300 turbo is only 650 lumens but it has a great amount of candela and it really does help shoot through ambient lighting to light up what you’re looking at. One good example would be to look into a vehicle with dark tint. With my x300 turbo it is easy to see into a vehicle and clearly see the occupants and their hands, face, etc. My x300 ultra was not able to break through these photonic barriers as easily. I also cannot hunt with a regular x300 ultra as it doesn’t have enough candela to allow me to PID at anything more than about 40yd. |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 1:53:51 PM EDT
[#25]
If you live in an old warehouse, 500 is not enough.
If you live in a 250sqft apartment it’s too much. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 3/6/2023 2:30:09 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By gambleandlost: With all the new lights coming out every month, it's hard to keep up with what is good now or out dated. I have 2 500 lumen weapon lights still. I can't figure out if I want to part with them to try out the new surefire turbos or not. This week it's candela, next week will be lumens again. I guess what I'm asking is it time to upgrade my weapon lights on my do it all rifles? If it is a good light, 500 lumens is plenty for any indoor situation and most just around the house/yard. |
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Posted: 3/6/2023 4:29:34 PM EDT
[#27]
Everyone should try their lights in their likely use scenarios. A 500 lumen light might not allow you to see past a lamp in your yard. Certainly not past headlights facing you in a road rage situation. One thing that surprised me was how long I had to move around to completely see under my dining room table with a Surefire 300V vs an Olight Balder. The cheap Olight is much better despite the Surefire having a nice hot spot. I’d like to have a 300V on my shotgun to serve as a point shooting cheater but a Baldr or X300 ultra is much faster for fast flash peeking around in the dark. And a lot cheaper.
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Posted: 3/6/2023 5:01:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: RattleCanAR]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By thatguybryan: I use mine for hunting coyotes, hogs and bobcats at night. I killed a bobcat last year at about 65 yd with a white light and a vortex razor and it worked great. I was very happy to have as much light as I did using a scope at night (cloud defensive OWL). For home defense (inside), I’d say 500 lumens is plenty. If your house is completely pitch black, you may be able to get away with less lumens than if you live in a city with ambient street lighting and such (although the ambient light may negate the need for a weapon light as well). My new x300 turbo is only 650 lumens but it has a great amount of candela and it really does help shoot through ambient lighting to light up what you’re looking at. One good example would be to look into a vehicle with dark tint. With my x300 turbo it is easy to see into a vehicle and clearly see the occupants and their hands, face, etc. My x300 ultra was not able to break through these photonic barriers as easily. I also cannot hunt with a regular x300 ultra as it doesn’t have enough candela to allow me to PID at anything more than about 40yd. Last month I tried ringing steel at 100 yards using a small 500 lumen pistol light on my AR with an LPVO. No problem at all. Olight PL2 mini The smoke will obscure your sight picture for follow up shots. The light reflects off every particle. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/12/2023 7:33:26 PM EDT
[#29]
If your 500 lumen light was fine when you installed it, it is still fine. If was lacking before you had potential upgrades, it is still lacking.
Lumens are not everything. |
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Posted: 3/13/2023 2:49:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1168RGR]
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By aeroworksxp: If it's just the intensity measurement you are talking about (lumens vs candela). Then just convert. https://www.calculatorology.com/lumens-to-candela-calculator/ Doesn’t quite work like that. Unfortunately the Vampire series isn’t available with very many lumens or candela. I’d say they are still relevant, though maybe mostly for professional users. I sure wish Modlight made such a tool. Like an 18350 OKW that transforms into a PLH 930 and has an off position. That’d be my dream light. Edit: TLR VIR II is also not big on lumens or candela, either. |
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Posted: 3/13/2023 6:43:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Meh, whats old is new again in pistol lights.
I have one of the 600lm Surefire X300's and bought a 1000lm X300U to go with it years ago. The 600 could reach out and identify the color of siding and rabbits running around the neighbors back yard from across the street. Roughly 100yds. The x300u lit up half the neighborhood, but I couldn't identify the colors on the shed anymore. And now the 300 turbo is more of a hot spot and 650lm. Welcome to 2011 at 2023 prices 
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Posted: 3/14/2023 3:56:43 PM EDT
[#32]
I find my 400 lumen Inforce WML Gen 2 lights to be very relevant for short range weapons. The spill and beam is good for inside residences and has enough punch to work my 1 acre city block.
Where the modern high candela lights really shine is breaking through photonic barriers. Projecting usable light beyond streetlights and headlights for example. A lot of lower candela lights are dead in the water beyond a streetlight, let alone headlights. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 3/14/2023 4:13:25 PM EDT
[#33]
Pretty sure my Arisaka is 500 L and it’s perfectly good lol
Even stuff like a single cell surefire that has 500 L but not as focused works great just keep limitations in mind I think most scenarios where there’s a lot of distance involved usually aren’t a white light situation anyway |
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Posted: 3/14/2023 11:00:18 PM EDT
[#34]
When I saw this post I knew it was a new guy
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Posted: 3/16/2023 12:23:10 PM EDT
[#35]
Relevant? Yes.
Optimal? Probably not. You have to understand the function of *that firearm* and then balance functionality with cost; not only cost to buy/run, but also cost to upgrade. I had a 150lm light on my first rifle for years after that was no longer the hotness because I don't kick in doors and I had other priorities, then because I built a new rifle and put a new/better light on that. A few years ago I swapped out that 150lm surefire for a 1,000lm Streamlight HL-X. And my SBR currently has a 300lm TLR-VIR II on it, because it does work well enough inside the house and that rifle is (for now) primarily an indoor/NV gun. Lots of factors. As to a light being too bright (as at least one poster mentioned above): if it's "too bright" you're using the wrong tactics/techniques. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 3/16/2023 12:44:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FedDC: Indoor use makes lights look bright because of reflective light coming off the walls and ceiling. If you want to know how well it actually works, go outside in an open field. But I bought to light up stuff inside the house. I don’t sleep outside in a field. |
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Posted: 3/16/2023 1:12:25 PM EDT
[#37]
I don't put a weapon light on a defense gun for wandering around fields so that works fine for me. I need to be able to ID a target within at most 50 feet. Beyond that I'll use a handheld light since something approaching from longer distance outdoors I have no idea if its a threat or not.
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Posted: 4/16/2023 6:51:11 PM EDT
[#38]
On my wife's Beretta PX4 Storm 9mm Carbine w/Holosun HS503CU I have a Streamlight Rail Mount 1 - 350 Lumens 12,000 Candela perfect for in the house or in the yard use.
On my 16" AR 223 Wylde w/Holosun HE403R-GD I have another Streamlight Rail Mount 1 On my 18" AR 5.56 w/Trijicon Credo 2-10x36mm I have a Streamlight Rail Mount 2 - 625 Lumens 22,000 Candela perfect for across the street and down about 4 houses on either side. So 350 Lumen to 625 Lumen WL's are fine for my defense, in my AO. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/29/2023 11:26:11 AM EDT
[#39]
My favorite rifle WML is a SureFire M600AA-DSS Scout. It’s a whooping 200 lumens (still sold today by SureFire). I like it because it is an AA battery model that has proven bombproof. I just bought some AA Lithiums with a 2043 expiration date. I have solar chargers (including a backpack panel) and a supply of Energizer AA rechargeable batteries. No matter where I am if the sun shines for about 5.7 hours I’m going to have light that night.
I also own lots of other WML including SureFire CR123 models with 1000 or more, Olights with 2000L, and Streamlights up to 1000L. The AA I listed works perfectly well to 100 yards. Besides, NODS is where it’s at. A white light is just for when you didn’t have time to Don your night vision. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/29/2023 11:27:36 AM EDT
[#40]
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USA
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Posted: 5/29/2023 11:28:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bigern314: I don't put a weapon light on a defense gun for wandering around fields so that works fine for me. I need to be able to ID a target within at most 50 feet. Beyond that I'll use a handheld light since something approaching from longer distance outdoors I have no idea if its a threat or not. I carry a handheld and always have a WML. It’s good to have options. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 1:09:00 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted By gambleandlost: I guess what I'm asking is it time to upgrade my weapon lights on my do it all rifles? Since we have no idea what situations/environments you have your rifles set up for, hard for us to answer that question for you. Do you find yourself, when training, saying "I can't see shit!"? If so, then an upgrade is probably in order. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 1:49:26 PM EDT
[#43]
People are too "into trends".
I got into weapon lights way back when the 6P LED was being lauded as "powerful". Some of you, well before that! It cast a sickly purple hue about to the distance of a typical suburban mailbox from the front door, lol! You mounted it with an Elzetta front sight mount. Then the M60 from Malkoff and the TNVC drop-ins...then M600C...then Nailbender mods for 6P with SMO reflectors and hard-driven SST and XP LED's. Then the 500 lumen M600 Ultra. Then Pat Rogers and his campaign for "wide floody beams". Now we ran into Modlite and the hunt for Candela and more LPVO usage and... |
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USA
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Posted: 5/29/2023 6:55:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JohnDough: People are too "into trends". I got into weapon lights way back when the 6P LED was being lauded as "powerful". Some of you, well before that! It cast a sickly purple hue about to the distance of a typical suburban mailbox from the front door, lol! You mounted it with an Elzetta front sight mount. Then the M60 from Malkoff and the TNVC drop-ins...then M600C...then Nailbender mods for 6P with SMO reflectors and hard-driven SST and XP LED's. Then the 500 lumen M600 Ultra. Then Pat Rogers and his campaign for "wide floody beams". Now we ran into Modlite and the hunt for Candela and more LPVO usage and... I’m not sure that’s a trend as much as search for a higher performing product. I remember duct taping a MagLite to a hand guard in the 1980s. There is a diminishing return on WML lumen levels. I can, conceptually anyway, understand wanting to threat ID to about 300 yards. The tech to get there requires product improvements. I still say NV and Thermal are the answer. White WML has a purpose but for anyone with NODs / Thermal it’s just for when you don’t have time to get your NODs on. I’m personally happy with a wider splash 200L because it’ll just get used inside my house until I can throw on NV. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 7:12:20 PM EDT
[#45]
Yes, you are not illuminating a movie shoot, you are verifying a threat.
Hell, when Surefire first hit the market 60 lumens was considered amazing. |
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Posted: 5/29/2023 7:18:18 PM EDT
[#46]
I guess the 200-lumen Malkoff I'm running in my AR is totally useless now.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/29/2023 8:03:08 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motoguzzi: Yes, you are not illuminating a movie shoot, you are verifying a threat. Hell, when Surefire first hit the market 60 lumens was considered amazing. I think my brightest rifle light is 600 lumens. It works well enough for what I do. But having said that, I would like something that will burn retinas out at 200 yards as well. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 5:29:30 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JBecker_72: One of my rifles has a 60 lumen 6P on it that I haven't upgraded with a Malkolf head yet. It's honestly not terrible. It has good throw relative to the small lumen number. I think my brightest rifle light is 600 lumens. It works well enough for what I do. But having said that, I would like something that will burn retinas out at 200 yards as well. My 600ish lumen miniscout do! |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 11:00:43 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By motoguzzi: Yes, you are not illuminating a movie shoot, you are verifying a threat. Hell, when Surefire first hit the market 60 lumens was considered amazing. I remember buying a 6p and a 9p. It was the epic lights to have. Then putting in the HO 9p bulb. You only got 20 minutes of batteries. But hot damn it was an epic 20 minutes. |
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Posted: 5/30/2023 12:45:51 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By GaryT1776: SureFire AA with a searing 200 lumen output That’s pretty cool. Looks great for a person that has trouble with heavier rifles. Wish I could get my girls or Mom to build their own for HD. |
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