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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:09:25 AM EDT
[#1]
Lighter/heavier buffer or spring maybe?
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:11:24 AM EDT
[#2]
I have a heavy buffer in it
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:34:10 AM EDT
[#3]
Turn the gas up when not using the can and/play with buffer weights
Edit- didn't read correctly I apologize Depending on how adjustable your gas block is I'd start with that and buffers before doing anything else. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:40:27 AM EDT
[#4]
Full power or subsonic loads?
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:49:02 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Turn the gas up when not using the can and/play with buffer weights Edit- didn't read correctly I apologize Depending on how adjustable your gas block is I'd start with that and buffers before doing anything else. Seekins adjustable |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:49:33 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Full power or subsonic loads? Full power |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 1:51:15 AM EDT
[#7]
If you're running an adjustable stock and not already doing so, consider using an intermediate or A5 receiver extension with the appropriate buffer and spring. Slash at Heavy Buffers can help with the buffer weight and spring selection. Also consider David Tubb's springs. You may be so over-gassed that you may have to choke down the gas port to allow the AGB to function throughout its range. BRT Custom Tune may work for that, but is not compatible with all AGBs.
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Posted: 2/18/2021 6:42:00 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 2/18/2021 9:13:39 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: I have a 12.5” ar10, it has an adjustable gas block, if I adjust it to run suppresses it cycles fine, but remove the suppressor and it’s not reliable at all and vise versa, is their anyway to make it run both suppressed and Unsuppressed reliably ? Self adjusting piston system ? Remove the suppressor and turn the adjustable gas block all the way down. Then gradually open it test firing one shot at a time until you find the minimum amount of gas that will still lock the bolt back without a suppressor. Now add the suppressor back on and see if it works. It should be a little bit over gassed but not as bad as before. This is the gas setting that will give you the best chance of working in both modes. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:42:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remove the suppressor and turn the adjustable gas block all the way down. Then gradually open it test firing one shot at a time until you find the minimum amount of gas that will still lock the bolt back without a suppressor. Now add the suppressor back on and see if it works. It should be a little bit over gassed but not as bad as before. This is the gas setting that will give you the best chance of working in both modes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a 12.5” ar10, it has an adjustable gas block, if I adjust it to run suppresses it cycles fine, but remove the suppressor and it’s not reliable at all and vise versa, is their anyway to make it run both suppressed and Unsuppressed reliably ? Self adjusting piston system ? Remove the suppressor and turn the adjustable gas block all the way down. Then gradually open it test firing one shot at a time until you find the minimum amount of gas that will still lock the bolt back without a suppressor. Now add the suppressor back on and see if it works. It should be a little bit over gassed but not as bad as before. This is the gas setting that will give you the best chance of working in both modes. I did exactly this, I am using a heavy buffer from slash. Using my pet load I put one round in the mag and adjusted the block until I just gave it enough gas it would reliably lock the bolt back, when I added the suppressor the bolt would come back and leave the empty brass on top of the magazine and double feed or jam up. I thought about using a tubb spring as I am currently just using a dpms carbine spring |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 12:52:25 PM EDT
[#11]
Topic Moved
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Posted: 2/18/2021 1:43:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Full power Reloads? |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 5:00:18 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reloads? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Full power Reloads? Yes |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 5:08:02 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Full power Reloads? Yes What propellant ? .... Its my feeble minded understanding is that IMR 3031 ( or something around that burn rate ) is a "better" choice in 308 short barrels. |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 5:18:07 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What propellant ? .... Its my feeble minded understanding is that IMR 3031 ( or something around that burn rate ) is a "better" choice in 308 short barrels. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Full power Reloads? Yes What propellant ? .... Its my feeble minded understanding is that IMR 3031 ( or something around that burn rate ) is a "better" choice in 308 short barrels. H335 |
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Posted: 2/18/2021 11:23:34 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did exactly this, I am using a heavy buffer from slash. Using my pet load I put one round in the mag and adjusted the block until I just gave it enough gas it would reliably lock the bolt back, when I added the suppressor the bolt would come back and leave the empty brass on top of the magazine and double feed or jam up. I thought about using a tubb spring as I am currently just using a dpms carbine spring Ok, so the empty case isn't ejecting..so it's a failure to eject / stovepipe. Can you post a pic of what the jam looks like? A slow motion video of the jam woukd be even better. This might actually be a sign of an extractor issue. check to make sure that extractor looks good and no brass chips stick in it. What happens when you leave the suppressor on but only have 1 bullet in the mag? Does it fully eject them? does it lock back? Does adjusting the gas block down a bit result in proper cycling when using the suppressor? |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 3:28:07 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, so the empty case isn't ejecting..so it's a failure to eject / stovepipe. Can you post a pic of what the jam looks like? A slow motion video of the jam woukd be even better. This might actually be a sign of an extractor issue. check to make sure that extractor looks good and no brass chips stick in it. What happens when you leave the suppressor on but only have 1 bullet in the mag? Does it fully eject them? does it lock back? Does adjusting the gas block down a bit result in proper cycling when using the suppressor? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I did exactly this, I am using a heavy buffer from slash. Using my pet load I put one round in the mag and adjusted the block until I just gave it enough gas it would reliably lock the bolt back, when I added the suppressor the bolt would come back and leave the empty brass on top of the magazine and double feed or jam up. I thought about using a tubb spring as I am currently just using a dpms carbine spring Ok, so the empty case isn't ejecting..so it's a failure to eject / stovepipe. Can you post a pic of what the jam looks like? A slow motion video of the jam woukd be even better. This might actually be a sign of an extractor issue. check to make sure that extractor looks good and no brass chips stick in it. What happens when you leave the suppressor on but only have 1 bullet in the mag? Does it fully eject them? does it lock back? Does adjusting the gas block down a bit result in proper cycling when using the suppressor? I thought about extractor issues, I upgraded the extractors spring and even added the rubber oring, cleaned the ejector even added a new spring to it If I adjust the gas block to the suppressor then remove it the gun short strokes, won’t lock back won’t properly eject. If I adjust it with out the suppressor it dumps the empty brass on top of the magazine I just got it back from hydro dip last Saturday, I am going to take it out Sunday to get familiar with it again, in the mean time I might try a tubb flat wire spring |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 9:08:42 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I adjust the gas block to the suppressor then remove it the gun short strokes, won’t lock back won’t properly eject. Quote HistoryQuoted: If I adjust the gas block to the suppressor then remove it the gun short strokes, won’t lock back won’t properly eject. Ok that's as expected. can't make an under gassed gun function. EDIT: One more thing you could try...tune gas block to the maximum amount of gas that it will function with the suppressor on, then remove suppressor and see how it does If I adjust it with out the suppressor it dumps the empty brass on top of the magazine I think what must be happening is the BCG velocity is so high, due to being overgassed, that the extractor spring doesn't have time to eject the case before it's sucked rearward into the action and jams up. Upgrading the extractor spring would be the most logical fix, but you already tried that. I just got it back from hydro dip last Saturday, I am going to take it out Sunday to get familiar with it again, in the mean time I might try a tubb flat wire spring It's possible that some other spring or recoil mechanism might introduce some nonlinear dynamics that resolve your issue, but i'm not super optimistic. Since you already tuned it to the minimum amount of gas to function with suppressor, that means your BCG velocity without the suppressor is already as low as you can get it, and it's clearly still too fast. At this point, I think your best bet is to use a tool free adjustable gas block for when you put the suppressor on or off. https://seekinsprecision.com/select-adjustable-gas-block-876.html |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 11:52:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Ok so here is what I did, the gas block I am currently using was a seekins clone by joebob outfitters, after a little research I bought a superlative adjustable, seems like they bleed off access gas so if I adjust it to unsuppressed then suppress it, in theory it should bleed off the access and let it cycle properly. Next I got si flat wire spring, a little research here on the board is saying they are identical to the David tubb spring, I have been wanting to try a flat wire for a while so. I’ll zero the optic this weekend, then next week install those parts and put my theory to the test |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 3:16:08 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok so here is what I did, the gas block I am currently using was a seekins clone by joebob outfitters, after a little research I bought a superlative adjustable, seems like they bleed off access gas so if I adjust it to unsuppressed then suppress it, in theory it should bleed off the access and let it cycle properly. It totally defeats the purpose of the suppressor to allow high pressure gas to bleed off through the gas block unsuppressed. High pressure gas = high decibels. When you bleed off gas from a gas block, it is no different from allowing high pressure gas to exit from the muzzle without a suppressor |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 3:57:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It totally defeats the purpose of the suppressor to allow high pressure gas to bleed off through the gas block unsuppressed. High pressure gas = high decibels. When you bleed off gas from a gas block, it is no different from allowing high pressure gas to exit from the muzzle without a suppressor Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ok so here is what I did, the gas block I am currently using was a seekins clone by joebob outfitters, after a little research I bought a superlative adjustable, seems like they bleed off access gas so if I adjust it to unsuppressed then suppress it, in theory it should bleed off the access and let it cycle properly. It totally defeats the purpose of the suppressor to allow high pressure gas to bleed off through the gas block unsuppressed. High pressure gas = high decibels. When you bleed off gas from a gas block, it is no different from allowing high pressure gas to exit from the muzzle without a suppressor So you think that gas block was a waste of money ? |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 5:06:08 PM EDT
[#22]
Double post....
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Posted: 2/19/2021 5:24:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Yeah, the style you have isn't what I would have chose for use with a suppressor.
A 'bleed off' style is the one that will emit high pressure gas, causing more noise (as does the gas vent holes in an AR bolt). A restricter style (Non-Bleed-Off), like my Strike Industries Collar Adjustable gas block, doesn't. I like the Strike, because it can be adjusted without a tool, and can be turned off completely, not allowing high pressure gas back into the bolt, eliminating the noise of gas escaping from the bolt, and the mechanical noise of the action cycling, which is considerable. |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 5:35:28 PM EDT
[#24]
Dang... hmmm guess I’ll send it back
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Posted: 2/19/2021 6:04:26 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, the style you have isn't what I would have chose for use with a suppressor. A 'bleed off' style is the one that will emit high pressure gas, causing more noise (as does the gas vent holes in an AR bolt). A restricter style (Non-Bleed-Off), like my Strike Industries Collar Adjustable gas block, doesn't. I like the Strike, because it can be adjusted without a tool, and can be turned off completely, not allowing high pressure gas back into the bolt, eliminating the noise of gas escaping from the bolt, and the mechanical noise of the action cycling, which is considerable. That Strike Industries gas block looks pretty dang cool. Looks like the downside is that you don't have fine-grained control as you would with a set screw, and it's heavier, but the easy adjustability is really cool. I was just testing a new build today that needs a better gas block, so I ordered it :) |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 6:14:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dang... hmmm guess I’ll send it back Well, you don't need to send it back. The Superlative Arms has a restrictive gas mode as well. The bleed-off mode is entirely optional. So you can just use it as a regular adjustable gas block and it should be fine for suppressed guns. It just won't solve your problem of being able to swap between suppressed and non-suppressed modes. I think that some kind of tool free operation really is the best thing for that, like the suggested gas block above...but your current gas block might be used in a different gun |
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Posted: 2/19/2021 6:38:57 PM EDT
[#27]
Well stay tuned I might get it straightened out next week, if I zero the gun then swop blocks will it effect zero ?
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Posted: 2/19/2021 11:15:00 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well stay tuned I might get it straightened out next week, if I zero the gun then swop blocks will it effect zero ? Haven't tried it, i'd guess maybe but only a little bit |
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Posted: 2/21/2021 8:53:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Well I got the gas block and a strike industries flat wire spring and it did the trick now my gun circles both suppressed and unsuppressed
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