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Posted: 3/13/2021 4:35:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I installed a new FRT-15 trigger in my 11.5" SBR. Colt upper with FN lower, A2 buffer. Took it out to the range today and it does the dead trigger thing. One shot and then nothing. If I open it up the hammer has followed up and the round in the chamber has a firing pin indent but not hard enough to fire the round. Chamber a new round and the same thing again. Function checking by cry cycling with the charging handle it seems like its doing everything its supposed to be doing . I tried a lighter H1 buffer and a really heavy 8.2 ounce . The H1 same thing and the 8.2 would eject but not chamber a new round. The upper to lower fitment is on the sloppy side but thats the only issue with the gun otherwise. Ive seen some vids of guys having the same problem but no one bothered to figure out why before they sold it off for a profit. Anyone encountered anything similar? I pulled it out of that gun and put it in a 20" A2 clone to try tomorrow. I'm betting you have some pretty narly bolt bounce, which is causing the trigger to outrun the carrier. I would recommend either heavier springs or a heavier buffer. You may also be pulling the trigger too tightly. I had great success with a carbine buffer + strike industries carbine spring. It's really hard to tell what can cause the issues because if it's overgassed, it won't run and if it's undergassed, it won't run. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 4:43:33 PM EDT
[#2]
Every buffer I tried ran one round. As of yet it hasnt done more than one. H3 cycles but it just gets a round in the chamber and that round has a slightly dinged firing pin mark. 8.2 wont cycle. I am wondering it is undergassed. Ive tried ever trigger pull I could think of. light, heaver, medium etc.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 4:56:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every buffer I tried ran one round. As of yet it hasnt done more than one. H2 cycles but it just gets a round in the chamber and that round has a slightly dinged firing pin mark. 8.2 wont cycle. I am wondering it is undergassed. Ive tried ever trigger pull I could think of. light, heaver, medium etc. Undergassed will have very similarities to characteristics as an overgassed such as FTF. Either you have bolt bounce OR the trigger is outrunning the carrier. Either can technically explain the LPS you're experiencing. I would bet that an H3 would work. Did you say you have an rifle length buffer tube? You said you were using an a2 buffer? |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 4:58:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every buffer I tried ran one round. As of yet it hasnt done more than one. H2 cycles but it just gets a round in the chamber and that round has a slightly dinged firing pin mark. 8.2 wont cycle. I am wondering it is undergassed. Ive tried ever trigger pull I could think of. light, heaver, medium etc. @71Camaro427 Was it ever working properly? There has been some discovery that the spring that is used in the forced reset area, is getting crimped and bent, which results in these failures. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 5:02:13 PM EDT
[#5]
If you bought it used, or if you had good luck and it stopped working, I’d say it’s the bent spring. If it is doing that out of the box, once you get it to work, be prepared for this other malfunction to follow. So far, rare breed is denying the issue and blaming it on people “gorilla gripping” the trigger. They are advising unhappy customers to sell them on gunbroker and like sites. So be prepared for some issues if you bought it new.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 5:50:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Bought it new and its has never worked. I just checked the weight and the buffer I thought was an H2 was really an H3 so thats not it.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 5:55:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Undergassed will have very similarities to characteristics as an overgassed such as FTF. Either you have bolt bounce OR the trigger is outrunning the carrier. Either can technically explain the LPS you're experiencing. I would bet that an H3 would work. Did you say you have an rifle length buffer tube? You said you were using an a2 buffer? I dont know how the trigger would be outrunning the carrier. I mean thats the whole point of the trigger design to begin with . The piece that looks like the auto sear is "supposed" to hold the hammer until the bolt closes. Ive seen the thing about the spring. Ive talked to a lot of people who have a lot of rounds through theirs with no spring issues. I'm sure some people do have spring issues but they seem to be more of a vocal minority than anything else. If I can get it to run 2 rounds in succession I'll worry about that later. Springs are cheap and it looks like a bevel in the spring well would take care of it. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 8:12:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I dont know how the trigger would be outrunning the carrier. I mean thats the whole point of the trigger design to begin with . The piece that looks like the auto sear is "supposed" to hold the hammer until the bolt closes. Ive seen the thing about the spring. Ive talked to a lot of people who have a lot of rounds through theirs with no spring issues. I'm sure some people do have spring issues but they seem to be more of a vocal minority than anything else. If I can get it to run 2 rounds in succession I'll worry about that later. Springs are cheap and it looks like a bevel in the spring well would take care of it. It's not an auto sear. With that said, the reason it can be bolt bounce is because of the carrier goes into battery then the latch engages the trigger and drops the hammer. Bolt bounce can cause the latch to be tripped while the hammer is dropping and the carrier bounces slightly, resulting in LPS because the bounce causes the carrier to not be in battery for milliseconds while the hammer has already dropped. Which means the firing pin isn't getting hit at 100% the normal force. It doesn't happen on the first round because the round is already chambered and in battery. |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 10:03:57 PM EDT
[#9]
if you're running the 11.5 colt commando barrel, i believe its the le6933, its notorious for being very overgassed and im guessing ur h3 just isnt enough to overcome it and the bolt bounce
maybe look into adding a sprinco red or blue spring to the h3 buffer to see if it helps |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 10:50:20 PM EDT
[#10]
Here is two really good newer videos about installing it correctly that seems to be some of the issue causing the pinched spring. My buddy has two one he "played" with the locking bar by dry firing with no upper and had to get a new spring for to run, his other one he installed has zero issues likely cause he didn't mess with the locking bar on install and only test fired with an upper attached and used an H3 he got from me for. He since did the dremel mod to be a more stable fix for the first one so he shouldn't have to respring it even if he test fires it with no upper and is leaving the other unmodified and they both work now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbCxC1BuYXw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5JdcefiaQ8&t=9s Here is a video on the dremel reliability mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K70-uVNr8Hs&t=3s And here is an extra power spring for single shot and to run better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVzvM3v_56A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DoQuBmWIEQ&t=263s |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 12:36:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here is two really good newer videos about installing it correctly that seems to be some of the issue causing the pinched spring. My buddy has two one he "played" with the locking bar by dry firing with no upper and had to get a new spring for to run, his other one he installed has zero issues likely cause he didn't mess with the locking bar on install and only test fired with an upper attached and used an H3 he got from me for. He since did the dremel mod to be a more stable fix for the first one so he shouldn't have to respring it even if he test fires it with no upper and is leaving the other unmodified and they both work now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbCxC1BuYXw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5JdcefiaQ8&t=9s Here is a video on the dremel reliability mod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K70-uVNr8Hs&t=3s And here is an extra power spring for single shot and to run better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVzvM3v_56A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DoQuBmWIEQ&t=263s I never though about the the trigger return spring being an issue but now that I think about it, it definitely could be a cause to issues. I've been playing around with the hammer spring. You can't use most springs because of the diameter, but the POF Rebel hammer spring is probably about 10-15% more tension than the one on this one and fits perfectly. It also doesn't effect trigger pull and gives a cleaner break (I tested 2 of my triggers, one stock and one with the rebel spring). Admittedly, the hammer doesn't feel like it currently drops all that hard with the stock spring. |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 9:40:05 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not an auto sear. Sure its not :). Pull the trigger back. Not hard. Push the hammer down. Now push the "not an auto sear " forward. What happens? |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 9:45:00 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure its not :). Pull the trigger back. Not hard. Push the hammer down. Now push the "not an auto sear " forward. What happens? Did you do that alot? Because that damages the spring. |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 12:29:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did you do that alot? Because that damages the spring. I mean that's kind of how this trigger works. |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 1:51:45 PM EDT
[#15]
I had to put a lighter spring in my full sized M16 A2 clone but it ran fine. Tried again with the 11.5" Comando Colt upper. No dice. Ran 500 rounds of wolf through it today. Didnt hurt the spring at all.
Yeah, I know, I forgot my glasses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ucOVI6GnLo |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 2:13:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had to put a lighter spring in my full sized M16 A2 clone but it ran fine. Tried again with the 11.5" Comando Colt upper. No dice. Ran 500 rounds of wolf through it today. Didnt hurt the spring at all. Yeah, I know, I forgot my glasses. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ucOVI6GnLo |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 3:06:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Make sure to keep a fairly light grip on the trigger.
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Posted: 3/14/2021 4:19:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Works fine with the 20 inch upper. I tried just about everything with the 11.5 commando upper. No dice.
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Posted: 3/14/2021 11:03:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Works fine with the 20 inch upper. I tried just about everything with the 11.5 commando upper. No dice. |
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Posted: 4/14/2021 11:24:07 AM EDT
[#20]
I just got my frt installed and out of the gate I could not get it to work. I did get it to run twice, dumping half a 30 round mag but not consistently. I was able to get it to do that by using an H buffer and a carbine spring.
My Franklin Binary trigger ran great in the same AR, although we used the spring that came with the trigger. I'm not sure what else to try, I don't think I can adjust gas on this FN 15 Tactical II. I was going to try maybe a heavier spring. I also tried using my Spike's Tactical lightweight NB BCG and had the same results. If I can't get it to work on this, I can try it on my son's Saint Victor and I can try it on my Aero Precision 300 blk ar pistol, but that will be an expensive test. |
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Posted: 4/14/2021 11:40:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Ammo?
And you can't gorilla grip the trigger during the firing sequence, you will cause a malfunction. For reference, I'm using a 16 inch mid-length gas, H3 buffer wtih a Sprinco XP (red) buffer spring. Underpowered Herters steel case will slog on the return stroke but brass cased ammo flys through it. |
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Posted: 4/14/2021 11:59:43 AM EDT
[#22]
I have one rifle that will not cycle soft point ammo. I changed out everything aside from barrel and same issue. I got tired of messing with it and I just don’t shoot that ammo out of that gun. You might not be able to get that trigger to work with that gun.
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Posted: 4/14/2021 3:33:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ammo? And you can't gorilla grip the trigger during the firing sequence, you will cause a malfunction. For reference, I'm using a 16 inch mid-length gas, H3 buffer wtih a Sprinco XP (red) buffer spring. Underpowered Herters steel case will slog on the return stroke but brass cased ammo flys through it. I was using .223 55gr wincheter ammo I'm well aware of the "don't gorilla grip", probably to a fault of maybe going to light?? |
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Posted: 4/16/2021 2:27:38 AM EDT
[#24]
The FRT has a design flaw that causes damage to the spring. YouTube has a some videos explaining why they stop working correctly.
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Posted: 4/16/2021 8:46:32 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FRT has a design flaw that causes damage to the spring. YouTube has a some videos explaining why they stop working correctly. I have not got it work out of the box, sping looks fine still. |
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Posted: 4/16/2021 10:36:28 AM EDT
[#26]
My guess is you have a timing issue. I would of course check the spring and ensure it doesn't have a kink. Mine kinked slightly in 300 rounds but still worked. I put a short 1.5mm pin inside the spring to prevent kinking and limit overtravel of the safety block.
Kinked spring next to a fresh spring:  Attached FilePin that I inserted in the spring.  Attached FileMax compression with the pin in place.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/16/2021 2:45:54 PM EDT
[#27]
A nice update to my FRT-15 trigger.
I could not get it to work , except for a couple of times but rather short bursts on my FN 15 Tactical II. Today I put the trigger in my son's Springfield Saint Victor....and it ran perfectly!! Here is a bit of info that I found that may be why it does not work in my FN. After I installed the trigger in the Saint, I could not get the rear to close so i could get the take down pin in. I noticed that the locking bar was keeping it from fully seating. I gently pushed it forward with a pick and it was able to close. On my FN, it closes just fine, so it has me thinking if that is the reason it works on the Saint and not on my FN??? I also had tried my Spikes Tactical NB BCG on my FN and it closed fine also, maybe that is also why it did not work with it either. But man, was that thing fun to shoot!! |
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