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Page AR-15 » Maintenance & Cleaning
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Posted: 10/26/2019 11:27:23 AM EDT
Been doing this so long that I’ve never thought to ask if I was doing it right. After time, I can notice an accuracy decrease and I wonder if this is the cause. Am I doing anything wrong?

I clean my ARs every 200-300 rounds

I put a Hollow Possum AR15 bore guide in the upper
I use a Tipton carbon fiber rod

I use a jag a put through a patch of Hoppe’s Elite

Then I put a phosphor bronze brush through three times, and sure to wet the brush with Hoppe’s Elite  (but only forward through the barrel, I do not pull the brush backwards through the muzzle)

Then a dry patch twice to dry

Then a patch of Pro Shot Copper Solvent IV

Then a phosphor bronze brush wet with ProShot through three times (again, forward only)

Then two dry patches

Then a patch wet with Slip 2000 EWL

I usually clean the feed ramp area and the chamber with those long Q-Tips from Brownells.

Then I swab those areas with Slip200 EWL as well.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 11:51:33 AM EDT
[#1]
That’s extremely excessive for removing copper deposits and could possibly be leading to bore damage.  There’s nothing wrong with running a couple patches down the bore after a range outing, but I’d recommend only using the super harsh copper stuff when you notice accuracy degradation, especially on a standard run of the mill rack grade AR.

Hell, vast majority of my non-precision guns I’ve never used any type of copper remover/solvent on and a few are north of 5k rounds with no ill effects or noticeable accuracy degradation.  Most I do is run a patch wet with CLP/Slip/etc. then patch til dry and that’s usually every other outing or maybe 500-1000 rounds.

ETA:  Removing all copper fouling from the bore can lead to initial accuracy degradation before its fired again and the bore is re-fouled.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 11:59:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Bench rest shooting or like a standard AR?
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 12:08:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Over kill,

I run them til i get a stoppage and then jis squirt CLP and keep running. Once home, ill pull BCG, field strip and clean/oil. I may run a wet patch thru bore with CLP or Hoppes #9. Ill do that twice and one dry patch and put back together.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 12:12:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 12:34:13 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:
It’s rare I give the bore that aggressive a cleaning.

Mostly use shooters choice and a nylon bore brush.
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Is a nylon brush less abrasive than phosphor bronze?
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 12:37:52 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Bench rest shooting or like a standard AR?
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These are not bench rest ARs, but good quality. BCM and DD barrels. I’m surprised how accurate the gov’t profile DD barrels are.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 12:41:40 PM EDT
[#7]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkuzKRaiKKw
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 12:44:07 PM EDT
[#8]
My recommendation is reduce your frequency of cleaning, no need to be so thorough so often.

Remove the Hoppe’s and Pro Shot cleaners and replace with Boretech Eliminator - much easier on the barrel and does a superior job removing carbon and copper. Use with their nylon brush.

Keep the Slip 2000 EWL as your final swipe and your general cleanup CLP.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 12:47:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Unless you are using corrosive ammo you are overcleaning them.
Just a patch with some powder solvent if you insist on cleaning them that much.
Try pouring boiling water through the barrel but be careful.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 1:17:37 PM EDT
[#10]
You will never harm your barrel at all with that process.  You are taking care to push carbon out first, wet the bore and the brush, and always push forward.  Ignore naysayers.  Overcleaning can only (potentially) harm the bore when you drag carbon back and forth over and over, or by leaving in strong copper removers that can harm the bore material.  That said - there is no need to remove ALL the copper each cleaning.

I prefer Butches bore shine, as is does a good job or removing carbon and some copper fouling and is not as strong.

I'd always push a dry patch for your final, though, there is no need to leave that much wet oil in a bore.  The only other thing I'd do differently if you are stuck on using a strong copper remover, is to run a few more oil patches at the end to ensure you removed all the copper remover, then a dry patch.

I don't see where you are scrubbing your chamber with a chamber brush?  I do that first, before I approach the bore.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 1:20:49 PM EDT
[#11]
Based on your cleaning regimen, I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong to the point of hurting the rifle/barrel. The fears over damaging a barrel by cleaning it are largely overblown. Possible? Yes. Common or easy to do harm? No.

With that being said, I’m with others in that the frequency plus the extent of your routine is a bit overkill/unnecessary. Particularly with the copper solvent. For me, I typically don’t go after the copper until accuracy starts to degrade. I don’t really use it as a preemptive measure; outside of when I elect to break-in a new rifle.

For rifles that I don’t really use for precision work, it’s a bit harder to pinpoint when accuracy might start to degrade. As I’m not frequently shooting them for groups. So, for rifles in that category, I’ll add a copper cleaner (Butch’s bore shine) around every 3-5 cleanings or so.

FWIW, I’m one of many who isn’t afraid to “scrub” the bore with the brush. Push though, pull back, repeat. Never had an issue as a result. So, again, I highly doubt you’re doing anything with your cleaning that’s harming your rifles.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 1:37:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 1:38:59 PM EDT
[#13]
You are over doing it .

Punch the bore from the rear carefully with some solvent on a brush .
Then a dry patch or two then a slighly oily one , you're done with the barrel. Patches can be old T shirts , you don't  NEED to buy precut patches .

You definatly are not doing anything wrong , but for normal shooting you sound abit over the top .
But its your gun if it makes you feel better about your gun then scrub her up good .

On Parris Island our Senior Drill Instructor had us clean our uppers and barrels in a trash can full of scalding hot water and a can of Gunk engine cleaner .

It worked good , but I havnt done it since .

BCG dismantle it clean it up and lube .

Good Luck ,
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 3:02:16 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
It lasts longer and doesn't chemically react.
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Quoted:
Quoted:

Is a nylon brush less abrasive than phosphor bronze?
It lasts longer and doesn't chemically react.
This. I have both in my cleaning kit. Each have their purpose.

The bronze brush will likely work better in knocking out the crud. Downside is that could give you false “readings” with certain solvents.

Nylon won’t give the above false readings; while still effectively cleaning. And, yes, they tend to last longer.

A “hack” I use with my Nylon chamber brush is to chuck it in a drill. Makes cleaning the chamber area a lot easier. While a bronze chamber brush probably wouldn’t do harm in the same application, I feel the nylon brush mitigates any risk of damage.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 3:21:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Mine gets a bore snake down the barrel a couple times, bolt tossed in ultrasonic and the receivers are wiped out with an T-shirt and hoppes.   Next day after bolt dries it’s heavily oiled with mobile one and it’s all reassembled.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 3:56:55 PM EDT
[#16]
OP, you're doing nothing wrong. I clean mine very well but yours is more time consuming than mine. But no harm by any means.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 4:31:08 PM EDT
[#17]
In my honest opinion, you are over cleaning it.

I clean my bore once every 10 times I take it shooting and oil the FCG about the same amount.  I have several rifles, so some of them go years without being cleaned.

I am on the opposite end of the scale as far as feeling the need to clean as most people, but my shit works.
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 4:52:55 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
These are not bench rest ARs, but good quality. BCM and DD barrels. I’m surprised how accurate the gov’t profile DD barrels are.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Bench rest shooting or like a standard AR?
These are not bench rest ARs, but good quality. BCM and DD barrels. I’m surprised how accurate the gov’t profile DD barrels are.
I think you need to switch to decaf on the cleaning. But where are you shooting?
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 5:01:50 PM EDT
[#19]
Good feedback all. I happened to pick up Kroil on a lark the other day.  Good stuff? Not to hard on the bore?
Link Posted: 10/26/2019 11:58:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Spray clp on a bore snake and pull it through a couple times. That's all I've ever done.
Link Posted: 10/27/2019 7:22:15 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Been doing this so long that I’ve never thought to ask if I was doing it right. After time, I can notice an accuracy decrease and I wonder if this is the cause. Am I doing anything wrong?

I clean my ARs every 200-300 rounds

I put a Hollow Possum AR15 bore guide in the upper
I use a Tipton carbon fiber rod

I use a jag a put through a patch of Hoppe’s Elite

Then I put a phosphor bronze brush through three times, and sure to wet the brush with Hoppe’s Elite  (but only forward through the barrel, I do not pull the brush backwards through the muzzle)

Then a dry patch twice to dry

Then a patch of Pro Shot Copper Solvent IV

Then a phosphor bronze brush wet with ProShot through three times (again, forward only)

Then two dry patches

Then a patch wet with Slip 2000 EWL

I usually clean the feed ramp area and the chamber with those long Q-Tips from Brownells.

Then I swab those areas with Slip200 EWL as well.
View Quote
Otis is the way to go. you will never have a problem with the "rod" bending and touching the bore and, so long as you are careful to keep the cable away from the muzzle, you won't damage it, either!

Otis AR/M16 cleaning kit

You'll also want some Otis-specific patches:
Otis 2" round patches with holes
The patches can be used more than once,

This is a pull-through system, so you always clean from chamber to muzzle. Patches are tied to the loop, so you can make a very tight patch if you need to.

You may need to get a larger cable for larger-caliber rifles, but even with a semi-auto, such as an M1 or M14, you can still clean from chamber to muzzle.

Otis's Youtube Video
Link Posted: 10/27/2019 7:25:15 PM EDT
[#22]
So Kroil is OK to use on chrome lined bores?

ETA: Wanted to mention that the DD manual says to use a nylon brush.
Link Posted: 10/27/2019 8:19:59 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
So Kroil is OK to use on chrome lined bores?

ETA: Wanted to mention that the DD manual says to use a nylon brush.
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No problem.
Link Posted: 10/27/2019 8:25:32 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:

I prefer Butches bore shine, as is does a good job or removing carbon and some copper fouling and is not as strong.
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I use this too.  My precision rifles never see a brush, only a jag with Butch.  As far as my normal shooter grade AR, I usually pull a patch or three of MPro 7 through with a cleaning cable and finish with a dry patch and one patch of CLP.
Link Posted: 10/27/2019 8:53:01 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
So Kroil is OK to use on chrome lined bores?

ETA: Wanted to mention that the DD manual says to use a nylon brush.
View Quote
Kroil is an EXCELLENT bore cleaner. Because it is a penetrating oil, it gets under the carbon fouling and loosens it. A wet patch of Kroil followed by a brush and an overnight soak will remove a lot of carbon.

As far as rust protection, it'll do for a few days, but not past that. As far as a chrome bore, no worries.
Link Posted: 10/27/2019 10:20:56 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I use this too.  My precision rifles never see a brush, only a jag with Butch.  As far as my normal shooter grade AR, I usually pull a patch or three of MPro 7 through with a cleaning cable and finish with a dry patch and one patch of CLP.
View Quote
Not even a nylon brush?
Link Posted: 10/29/2019 11:50:47 AM EDT
[#27]
For what it's worth, here's a short NRA American Rifleman article on cleaning bores by Editor in Chief Mark Keefe....

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2019/10/23/dealing-with-fouling-getting-out-what-you-put-in/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=insider&utm_campaign=1019
Link Posted: 10/29/2019 2:34:43 PM EDT
[#28]
Here is what Dan Lilja has to say on his recommended cleaning for his precision barrels:

https://riflebarrels.com/support/centerfire-maintenance/

Our procedure is to push a cotton patch that is wet with solvent through the barrel. This will remove much of the powder fouling and wet the inside of the barrel with solvent. Next, wet a bronze brush (not a nylon brush) with solvent and stroke the barrel 5-10 times. Follow this by another wet patch and then one dry patch.

Normal cleaning
For a normal cleaning (after a string of 10-25 shots) after break-in, the above procedure should be used, but stop short of soaking the barrel with the strong copper remover. A good rule of thumb is to stroke the barrel with a brush, one cycle for every shot fired.

Do use a bronze brush. Some shooters and gunsmiths have the mistaken idea that a bronze brush will harm a barrel. It will not cause any damage to a barrel and the use of a bronze brush is necessary to remove all fouling. Substituting a nylon brush will not remove fouling as effectively as a bronze brush.

Periodic cleaning
It is probably a good idea to use a strong copper removing solvent every 200 rounds, or so, to check the barrel for copper fouling. We do not recommend the routine use of abrasive cleaners for normal cleaning. However they can be used every 500-1000 rounds to remove the carbon build-up (caused by powder fouling) in the throat area of the barrel. To use, wrap a cotton patch around a worn out brush or a cleaning jag and liberally apply the abrasive cleaner to the patch. Short stroke the abrasive for 6? or so in the throat area and one or two full length passes through the barrel. Do not clean the barrel like this for more than 1-2 minutes.

Suggested equipment and solvents
It is important to use an action rod guide when cleaning. The guide aligns the rod with the bore and helps prevent uneven wear in the throat area. Be careful not to raise the handle end of the rod while stroking. This will put a “belly” in the rod that will wear the barrel. We suggest that plastic coated rods, like the Dewey and Parker-Hale, be used.

Our preferred cleaning solvent is Butch’s Bore Shine. This solvent is excellent at attacking both powder and copper fouling. We recommend it for both break-in and regular cleaning.

For occasional use only, abrasives like J-B paste, Flitz, or RemClean can be used.

Do not use a stainless steel brush in your barrel under any circumstances.

Do use a bronze brush with Butch’s Bore Shine or similar solvents. A nylon brush can be used in place of patches but should never be substituted for a bronze brush. Some shooters mistakenly believe that a bronze brush will harm a barrel; it will not.

Do not apply a strong copper remover, like Sweets, on a bronze brush. It will ruin the brush and give the false indication that the barrel has copper in it. This is a good time to use a nylon brush.
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