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Posted: 1/12/2019 11:50:46 PM EDT
*** Update #1 1/30/19 - See end of page 2 for upcoming cold weather testing...***
Hey all, it's me again... I'm looking to see what kind of marathon testing you guys have ran your rifles through. This isn't to be mistaken for illogical or unnecessary abuse...just...real world (combat?) practicality. But I guess that's all subjective. Long story short, I have a Daniel Defense 10.3" MK18 URG mounted on an Aero LRG. Everything was lubed up internally with Slip 2000 EWL. I intend to run the rig with minimal lubrication when/if needed and zero internal cleaning. With over 480 rounds at this point...this thread serves to document any malfunctions that may arise. What kind of testing do you all perform? Please share! 
###### 1/12/19 - Average temperature outside at 25(F) during a 3-6" snow storm. I tossed the MK18 in the snow....for 10 minutes. Not considering the fact I had no mag inserted & ejection port cover remained open....snow packed into the upper. Upon performing a drill I cleared the obvious packed snow inside the upper. However as expected I had a failure to chamber. On closer inspection the extracted round had a significant indentation to the shoulder. Inspecting the chamber showed ice formation on the feed ramps. After cleaning the ice out with a bullet tip, the drill ran just fine. I did on occasion have issues where on fresh mag inserts...the BCG would not drive the round entirely in. Use of the forward assist did help on one occasion however I suspect the prior snow/water being introduced into the upper among lubrication caused a sludge effect. These aforementioned issues I am at fault for....without the snow being jammed inside....things would have operated just fine as they were prior. I did however notice the ejection port cover spring was freeing up from snow accumulation....when attempting to shut the port....it was a bit sluggish. |
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Posted: 1/12/2019 11:52:38 PM EDT
[#1]
Google Filthy 14
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Posted: 1/12/2019 11:59:22 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Google Filthy 14 |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 12:37:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Nice stick... did your EOtech have any zero shifts due to temperatures or did you even test?
I do not get the chance to snow test my stuff in S Texas. It did snow last year but melted by the end of the day. |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 10:56:49 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice stick... did your EOtech have any zero shifts due to temperatures or did you even test? I do not get the chance to snow test my stuff in S Texas. It did snow last year but melted by the end of the day. That's one thing I forgot to mention, so yes. When I buried the rifle and rolled it around, it sat for at least 10min or until my hands warmed back up. Although temperatures didn't reach what actually caused the EOTech zero shifting it was damn cold enough at around 17 when I was doing this. After burying the rifle and clearing the issue with frozen snow in my chamber...I didn't notice any type of shifting by just knocking on my steel plate. I did also use an IPSC target with several black dots spray painted on it...for a quick accuracy test at 7yds. I was kind of rushing at this point as I lost core temperature but the first five rounds were all well below the black dots. POA and POI was definitely off BUT I forgot I use a 36yd zero. I have to use the bottom of the EO reticle in order to get that exact POA/POI shot from 7yds and under. I'm hitting the range again today and will give that accuracy portion a better go. |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 11:31:54 AM EDT
[#5]
I have around 6,000 rounds through my current AR, based on my log book, and I've never cleaned it. I dump Slip 2000 EWL in it every few hundred rounds and hand cycle it a bunch.
No issues so far, except a bad mag. |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 11:59:07 AM EDT
[#6]
I dropped a mag in some muddy grass and despite trying to clear it off quickly (leaving some mud on the bullet tip and mag corner) the gub locked up loading the first round. But stroking the gun was the only way to get the bolt back. Next few rounds wouldnt load either. Removing a few rounds and cleaning out the mag better made rounds 5-30 run fine.
Eta: this was a DD rifle that had 3000+ rounds through it and proper cleaning |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 1:15:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Issued to me in Army Basic was a well used Colt M16A2, I could of placed a dime between the upper and lower. I did my best to break it... during bayonet training drill SGT told me I was to weak to break it.......OH boys I went on a mission from that point. drove tent stakes, used it to pry out rocks digging my foxhole, dropped it, dragged it. damn thing shot expert threw BRM... no matter what I did to it.........
The AR platform is one of the worlds greatest weapons |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 9:00:19 PM EDT
[#8]
I tossed my pws mk111 into some muddy water...Should have caked some mud onto the carrier to make it more of a "challenge."
VIDEO |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 9:32:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Cramming debris into an open action doesn't seem very practical. A condition the rifle would actually be carried in (loaded with dust cover closed) would make a lot more sense. Worst case scenario would be loaded with dust cover open to simulate someone forgetting to close it.
I don't get snow or extremely low temperatures where I live, so I'd like to see you perform that test. The ones I've seen on Youtube start with an empty chamber which again is not realistic. I want to know if the rifle will function on its own not after someone racks the charging handle and clears off the packed snow first. |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 9:35:04 PM EDT
[#10]
The only thing I would personally do different is to keep it well lubricated. Most I've gone personally is just over 5k rounds without cleaning but, lubed up the BCG prior to any shooting.
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Posted: 1/13/2019 10:13:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cramming debris into an open action doesn't seem very practical. A condition the rifle would actually be carried in (loaded with dust cover closed) would make a lot more sense. Worst case scenario would be loaded with dust cover open to simulate someone forgetting to close it. I don't get snow or extremely low temperatures where I live, so I'd like to see you perform that test. The ones I've seen on Youtube start with an empty chamber which again is not realistic. I want to know if the rifle will function on its own not after someone racks the charging handle and clears off the packed snow first. I did that all day today for what it's worth and the mk18 ran flawlessly each time. The only complication I had today was a few failures of the bolt to lock open on last round. I attribute that to a combination of under powered Federal/American Eagle .223 and water residue from yesterday still inside the upper. Mind you, I won't lubricate the rifle until I start seeing more significant problems. As of right now nothing I've experienced warrants imminent correction and CAN be easily corrected in the field under stress with proper training. I do wanna mention I didn't willingly pack the upper receiver with snow, I just had finished running a drill and forgot the whole upper was exposed when I tossed/buried it in the snow. |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 10:16:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tossed my pws mk111 into some muddy water...Should have caked some mud onto the carrier to make it more of a "challenge." VIDEO It is interesting how the elements can interact with something mechanical. Ice forming inside my chamber (after burying the open action rifle in the snow) & freezing temperatures causing a smaller chamber resulted in my failure to feed. I'll take a picture of the round tomorrow but it took a nose dive almost at 90deg upward near the gas tube and caused a massive indentation in the casing. Easily extracted but I kind of enjoy malfunctions like that to quickly diagnose problems. |
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Posted: 1/13/2019 10:27:38 PM EDT
[#13]
1/13/19 UPDATE: Didn't stack that many rounds on the rig today but shes well over 500 now. Still no lubrication but I opened the upper/lower to dry out after yesterday while doing some pistol work. The only issue I experienced today was limited to the bolt not locking open on empty. If you saw the previous post, that's due to under powered ammo and/or water still mixed in with the lubrication causing some friction. The thing still fired each/every round however and seemed unfazed otherwise. Temperatures were again at 25 or so and after letting the rifle sit in the snow for an hour if not more....and performing some accuracy tests at 7yds....I noticed no zero shifting. I use a 36yd zero and anything from 7yds and under requires using the bottom of the reticle....all shots landed right where I wanted them. All in all, it was another good day at the range.
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Posted: 1/13/2019 11:20:43 PM EDT
[#14]
I did something similar last year with a cheap AR Stoner build. Glad I did. I found the gloves I was wearing were so thick that when I depressed the mag release the latch on the backside came out of the receiver and then turned 90 degrees. I realized when I couldn't get a mag to lock in. Imagine pushing your mag release with a pencil as far as you can, same deal. When I got home I tightened it a few more turns and then filed down the protrusion coming out of the mag release button.
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Posted: 1/13/2019 11:42:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think I'm understanding what you're saying but please correct me if I'm not...next chance I get I'll for sure bury/roll the rifle around in snow while loaded (with and without the port cover open) and upload the video. I did that all day today for what it's worth and the mk18 ran flawlessly each time. The only complication I had today was a few failures of the bolt to lock open on last round. I attribute that to a combination of under powered Federal/American Eagle .223 and water residue from yesterday still inside the upper. Mind you, I won't lubricate the rifle until I start seeing more significant problems. As of right now nothing I've experienced warrants imminent correction and CAN be easily corrected in the field under stress with proper training. I do wanna mention I didn't willingly pack the upper receiver with snow, I just had finished running a drill and forgot the whole upper was exposed when I tossed/buried it in the snow. What buffer are you using? I believe you're correct on the commercial spec .223 causing short stroking in cold conditions, but too heavy of a buffer can exasperate the issue. People commonly test heavier buffer weights to dampen recoil in warmer conditions without realizing it can lead to short stroking in cold weather. Thanks for these updates and pics BTW. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 1:20:14 AM EDT
[#16]
Lack of lube is the killer of ARs. Just lube it. Slip2000EWL.
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Posted: 1/14/2019 4:40:21 AM EDT
[#17]
I have standardized on two lubes, Slip 2000 and Wilson Combat. You don't see WC mentioned a lot here, not sure ho makes it for them (please post if you know), but I have been using WC since I purchaed a RRA 1911 in 2000.
We rarely have cold weather here in Louisiana, so I don't get to test that too much, but last January we had some sub 20 degree weather and the rifles functioned good along with my new EXPS2. 77 |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:10:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dropped a mag in some muddy grass and despite trying to clear it off quickly (leaving some mud on the bullet tip and mag corner) the gub locked up loading the first round. But stroking the gun was the only way to get the bolt back. Next few rounds wouldnt load either. Removing a few rounds and cleaning out the mag better made rounds 5-30 run fine. Eta: this was a DD rifle that had 3000+ rounds through it and proper cleaning |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:29:12 AM EDT
[#19]
Shoot some "dirty shooting" ammo - russian stuff is usually pretty dirty.
1k or 2 k rounds ought to carbon things up a bit. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:41:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot some "dirty shooting" ammo - russian stuff is usually pretty dirty. 1k or 2 k rounds ought to carbon things up a bit. I have a DD MK 18 upper on a BCM lower, and thats probably around 1500-2000 rounds since cleaning. Shoots everything but Russian: Black Hills, Federal, IMI, Am. Eagle, Wolf Gold, CBC.... from 55-77 grain. Just keeps on chugging. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 11:57:59 AM EDT
[#21]
Here's a 3 mag, mag dump (suppressed) of Wolf steel with the PWS. After I tossed it in the water in the previously posted video, I just relubed.
Basically what I'm doing with this gun is running 2k rounds of Wolf steel through it before I clean it. At that point it will be about 8-9k (99% suppressed) rounds since the bolts been wiped down. The gun is boringly reliable. I'd probably not clean it all if it weren't the fact that the carrier has so much sludge on it that it kicks that stuff onto my face if I shoot the gun alot in a day. Also, the carrier has a hard time stripping the first round off a full mag too. Otherwise, it just keeps chugging. MAG DUMPS |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 12:07:32 PM EDT
[#22]
rock solid other than the eotech battery life.
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Posted: 1/14/2019 5:57:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did something similar last year with a cheap AR Stoner build. Glad I did. I found the gloves I was wearing were so thick that when I depressed the mag release the latch on the backside came out of the receiver and then turned 90 degrees. I realized when I couldn't get a mag to lock in. Imagine pushing your mag release with a pencil as far as you can, same deal. When I got home I tightened it a few more turns and then filed down the protrusion coming out of the mag release button. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 6:03:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I believe the rifle would operate fine, but there's no way for me to test it since I don't get snow where I live. What buffer are you using? I believe you're correct on the commercial spec .223 causing short stroking in cold conditions, but too heavy of a buffer can exasperate the issue. People commonly test heavier buffer weights to dampen recoil in warmer conditions without realizing it can lead to short stroking in cold weather. Thanks for these updates and pics BTW. And for sure, some of the photos truly show the color of the RIS II. It's almost like a olive drab/brown color depending on the lighting. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 6:09:02 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's a 3 mag, mag dump (suppressed) of Wolf steel with the PWS. After I tossed it in the water in the previously posted video, I just relubed. Basically what I'm doing with this gun is running 2k rounds of Wolf steel through it before I clean it. At that point it will be about 8-9k (99% suppressed) rounds since the bolts been wiped down. The gun is boringly reliable. I'd probably not clean it all if it weren't the fact that the carrier has so much sludge on it that it kicks that stuff onto my face if I shoot the gun alot in a day. Also, the carrier has a hard time stripping the first round off a full mag too. Otherwise, it just keeps chugging. MAG DUMPS And I also dig the torture test. I mean truly unless any of us do these things to our rigs.....how would we 100% be confident. Let alone inducing some malfunctions (if they occur) is also a trainable event. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 6:09:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
rock solid other than the eotech battery life. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 6:10:32 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Truth. My first AR was a S&W OR M&P 15, and with Russian stuff it really was unreliable. After a few hundred rounds it was failing to fire, eject, all sorts of crap. I have a DD MK 18 upper on a BCM lower, and thats probably around 1500-2000 rounds since cleaning. Shoots everything but Russian: Black Hills, Federal, IMI, Am. Eagle, Wolf Gold, CBC.... from 55-77 grain. Just keeps on chugging. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 6:23:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Two 1000 round days of Magpul Advanced Carbine, running Barnaul ammo, on drainage gravel. A good AR will run for a few hundred in that before you have to either clean it or ideally, hose it out with some sort of spray lube. It is where I really began to respect the system - durable enough, and a huge accuracy advantage over other platforms.
I'll argue that's as close to austere conditions as you'll get in training, both hot-and-dry and wet-and-muddy conditions. Snow and cold over 10F aren't an issue for any weapons system, or at least, should not be. The AR I did this to ran almost another 10 years or 3-gun with "kind-of" bi-annual cleaning. By that I mean cleaned enough to inspect for broken parts, wipe off cheese, re-lubricate. Everything but the barrel and bolt of that rifle are still in service. ETA: Especially given how inexpensive good AR parts, as well as whole new AR rifles and carbines are these days. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 6:25:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sick rig, I like it. That's piston driven isn't it? Or am I thinking of another PWS? And I also dig the torture test. I mean truly unless any of us do these things to our rigs.....how would we 100% be confident. Let alone inducing some malfunctions (if they occur) is also a trainable event. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here's a 3 mag, mag dump (suppressed) of Wolf steel with the PWS. After I tossed it in the water in the previously posted video, I just relubed. Basically what I'm doing with this gun is running 2k rounds of Wolf steel through it before I clean it. At that point it will be about 8-9k (99% suppressed) rounds since the bolts been wiped down. The gun is boringly reliable. I'd probably not clean it all if it weren't the fact that the carrier has so much sludge on it that it kicks that stuff onto my face if I shoot the gun alot in a day. Also, the carrier has a hard time stripping the first round off a full mag too. Otherwise, it just keeps chugging. MAG DUMPS And I also dig the torture test. I mean truly unless any of us do these things to our rigs.....how would we 100% be confident. Let alone inducing some malfunctions (if they occur) is also a trainable event. It's a rather slick setup, I had one for a little bit. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 6:54:34 PM EDT
[#30]
I have 2 DD MK18 uppers and an LMT 10.5.
One of my MK18s starts to fail around 5-600 rounds of brass cased fired with a Surefire on the end. The firing pin channel gums up bad and I stop getting strikes on the primer. This is without any attempt to prevent failure. I will try to duplicate it again on all 3 of the uppers as well as my BCM 11.5 and 12.5 in the future for a comparison. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 7:04:49 PM EDT
[#31]
I once flew with 2 ARs in a pelican case (custom cut my own foam) and had to let TSA and the baggage handlers fuck with it. My guns didn't lose zero.
I'd say that's about as torture-oriented as it gets really. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 7:54:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have 2 DD MK18 uppers and an LMT 10.5. One of my MK18s starts to fail around 5-600 rounds of brass cased fired with a Surefire on the end. The firing pin channel gums up bad and I stop getting strikes on the primer. This is without any attempt to prevent failure. I will try to duplicate it again on all 3 of the uppers as well as my BCM 11.5 and 12.5 in the future for a comparison. Like I said, my MK 18 has 1000+ through it. Ranging temps from teens to 100, dry, humid and raining. I think accuracy is fading a little, but hard to tell with my grab bag ammo habits. It's my go to house gun and certainly good enough for that. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 8:10:40 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That sounds wierd. Surefire what - flash light, flash hider or supressor? Like I said, my MK 18 has 1000+ through it. Ranging temps from teens to 100, dry, humid and raining. I think accuracy is fading a little, but hard to tell with my grab bag ammo habits. It's my go to house gun and certainly good enough for that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have 2 DD MK18 uppers and an LMT 10.5. One of my MK18s starts to fail around 5-600 rounds of brass cased fired with a Surefire on the end. The firing pin channel gums up bad and I stop getting strikes on the primer. This is without any attempt to prevent failure. I will try to duplicate it again on all 3 of the uppers as well as my BCM 11.5 and 12.5 in the future for a comparison. Like I said, my MK 18 has 1000+ through it. Ranging temps from teens to 100, dry, humid and raining. I think accuracy is fading a little, but hard to tell with my grab bag ammo habits. It's my go to house gun and certainly good enough for that.  Attached FileSoon I will be stress testing this addition to my stable.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 8:39:30 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's quite the malfunction lol. I wonder if that mag catch was out of spec or not threaded into the button entirely? That'd trip me up too. Stupid shit you would never expect unless you went out and try these things. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:15:15 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weapon lights and flash hiders don't typically cause an increase in shit build up. But to answer your question, a Surefire RC556. Without the suppressor I have gone for longer round counts through the SBRs without worry. My 16 inch guns are fired often and I usually pull and wipe the bolt every thousand rounds or so. I rarely encounter problems. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/86228/20170422_195001_jpg-808129.JPG Soon I will be stress testing this addition to my stable. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/86228/20190112_081741_jpg-808138.JPG Nice looking collection. I recently got a KAC supressor for mine but haven't put more than 200 rounds through. |
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Posted: 1/14/2019 9:55:04 PM EDT
[#36]
i dont clean mine a lot but spray some clp on the bcg every few hundred rounds. they get pretty dirty shooting suppressed
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Posted: 1/14/2019 10:04:28 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've entertained drilling through 1k of Russian stuff just to see how things go....and for cost....but I can't stand not paying for American made stuff. Anyway, the longest I've gone without lube in my Block II CQBR was a little over 2,000 (unsuppressed - using CherryBalmz or Super Lube grease). I don't recall how much of that was Wolf steel case, but it runs equally well with steel or brass case. The URG is a DD 10.3" .070" barrel, Colt upper receiver, and Toolcraft BCG. Currently, I've put 2,600 rounds through it since the last cleaning (all suppressed). About 1,500 was Wolf. Honestly, I don't see any real meaningful difference in the "dirtiness" of Wolf steel case versus Wolf Gold, Federal .223 or M193. Shooting suppressed I haven't even really tried to go any long period without lubrication - I've been applying Redline CV2 grease every 300-500 rounds as it starts to get sluggish from the carbon. She's pretty filthy. 
(Not even a current photo - this was around 2,300 I think) I'm probably going to clean it now because it's starting to jizz black tar shit on my cheek when I shoot :\. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:22:29 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Two 1000 round days of Magpul Advanced Carbine, running Barnaul ammo, on drainage gravel. A good AR will run for a few hundred in that before you have to either clean it or ideally, hose it out with some sort of spray lube. It is where I really began to respect the system - durable enough, and a huge accuracy advantage over other platforms. I'll argue that's as close to austere conditions as you'll get in training, both hot-and-dry and wet-and-muddy conditions. Snow and cold over 10F aren't an issue for any weapons system, or at least, should not be. The AR I did this to ran almost another 10 years or 3-gun with "kind-of" bi-annual cleaning. By that I mean cleaned enough to inspect for broken parts, wipe off cheese, re-lubricate. Everything but the barrel and bolt of that rifle are still in service. ETA: Especially given how inexpensive good AR parts, as well as whole new AR rifles and carbines are these days. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:24:06 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct, the PWS system is a long stroke piston. The op rod connects to the carrier where the gas key would normally be. It's a rather slick setup, I had one for a little bit. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:24:39 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I once flew with 2 ARs in a pelican case (custom cut my own foam) and had to let TSA and the baggage handlers fuck with it. My guns didn't lose zero. I'd say that's about as torture-oriented as it gets really. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:29:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weapon lights and flash hiders don't typically cause an increase in shit build up. But to answer your question, a Surefire RC556. Without the suppressor I have gone for longer round counts through the SBRs without worry. My 16 inch guns are fired often and I usually pull and wipe the bolt every thousand rounds or so. I rarely encounter problems. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/86228/20170422_195001_jpg-808129.JPG Soon I will be stress testing this addition to my stable. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/86228/20190112_081741_jpg-808138.JPG |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:32:38 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure it was out of spec. I originally tightened it until it was a thread proud of the mag release button like I had always done. Once the malfunction happened and I got home and went over it, it was several threads sticking out. Basically unusable when fully tightened so I had to file it down. The shaft was maybe 3mm too long. Stupid shit you would never expect unless you went out and try these things. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:45:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Eh, with the Federal rebate and brass case being 20-25 cents a round, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to shoot steel case right now. After I run out of Federal stuff, I'll probably go back to shooting Wolf. Anyway, the longest I've gone without lube in my Block II CQBR was a little over 2,000 (unsuppressed - using CherryBalmz or Super Lube grease). I don't recall how much of that was Wolf steel case, but it runs equally well with steel or brass case. The URG is a DD 10.3" .070" barrel, Colt upper receiver, and Toolcraft BCG. Currently, I've put 2,600 rounds through it since the last cleaning (all suppressed). About 1,500 was Wolf. Honestly, I don't see any real meaningful difference in the "dirtiness" of Wolf steel case versus Wolf Gold, Federal .223 or M193. Shooting suppressed I haven't even really tried to go any long period without lubrication - I've been applying Redline CV2 grease every 300-500 rounds as it starts to get sluggish from the carbon. She's pretty filthy. http://wkd.site.nfoservers.com/CQBR/CQBR.122118.CQBR.Sludge-RS-02.jpg (Not even a current photo - this was around 2,300 I think) I'm probably going to clean it now because it's starting to jizz black tar shit on my cheek when I shoot :\. Oh so was there any acceleration in gunk build up with steel cased versus brass? I'm gonna make another trip to the range after Florida and run a few hundred through but I'd guess I'm close to needing some lubrication...other than what it started with lol. How does that Redline grease work as opposed to some drops of regular lube? I've got some AeroShell 33MS and Mobil 28 but I use those for barrel nut threads/flanges and trigger groups. Edit: I should have mentioned that I'm running a ToolCraft BCG in the upper by the way, along with a PRI Gas Buster. And for what it's worth (despite not shooting suppressed), the PRI is hands down more effective in gas mitigation versus a Geissele ACH. With the Geissele on my other 10.3, I would usually get some gas and lube splatter back to the sun glasses at the end of the range day and need to wipe them down. I've yet once to do this with the PRI charging handle. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:46:52 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm surprised you didn't end up with a Pelican case of Legos after.  ), requesting a page if it needs to be opened. They usually just look at the contents when I check it, verify everything is within regs (unloaded/etc), and it's good to go.
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Posted: 1/15/2019 11:50:44 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't use TSA locks. There's a big notice on both sides of the case that has my rank/name (they're a lot less likely to steal a gun if they think it might belong to the military ), requesting a page if it needs to be opened. They usually just look at the contents when I check it, verify everything is within regs (unloaded/etc), and it's good to go. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 12:27:30 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn't seem like that bad of a process then, is it? I'm sure you feel people eyeballing you down when walking in though. I damn sure don't travel in uniform, even on orders....but I have no qualms using the bag to ensure my stuff doesn't get messed with too much, and always gets where it needs to without hassle. 
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Posted: 1/15/2019 4:54:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@krdt The man has spoken! I figured at some point you'd chime in, you're always putting your rigs through the paces and documenting it. Yeah I agree the rebates on brass cased are incontestable right now, it just sucks Federal and most others decided to pick the winter months to run those black pack and bulk rebates. Oh so was there any acceleration in gunk build up with steel cased versus brass? I'm gonna make another trip to the range after Florida and run a few hundred through but I'd guess I'm close to needing some lubrication...other than what it started with lol. How does that Redline grease work as opposed to some drops of regular lube? I've got some AeroShell 33MS and Mobil 28 but I use those for barrel nut threads/flanges and trigger groups. Edit: I should have mentioned that I'm running a ToolCraft BCG in the upper by the way, along with a PRI Gas Buster. And for what it's worth (despite not shooting suppressed), the PRI is hands down more effective in gas mitigation versus a Geissele ACH. With the Geissele on my other 10.3, I would usually get some gas and lube splatter back to the sun glasses at the end of the range day and need to wipe them down. I've yet once to do this with the PRI charging handle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Eh, with the Federal rebate and brass case being 20-25 cents a round, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to shoot steel case right now. After I run out of Federal stuff, I'll probably go back to shooting Wolf. Anyway, the longest I've gone without lube in my Block II CQBR was a little over 2,000 (unsuppressed - using CherryBalmz or Super Lube grease). I don't recall how much of that was Wolf steel case, but it runs equally well with steel or brass case. The URG is a DD 10.3" .070" barrel, Colt upper receiver, and Toolcraft BCG. Currently, I've put 2,600 rounds through it since the last cleaning (all suppressed). About 1,500 was Wolf. Honestly, I don't see any real meaningful difference in the "dirtiness" of Wolf steel case versus Wolf Gold, Federal .223 or M193. Shooting suppressed I haven't even really tried to go any long period without lubrication - I've been applying Redline CV2 grease every 300-500 rounds as it starts to get sluggish from the carbon. She's pretty filthy. http://wkd.site.nfoservers.com/CQBR/CQBR.122118.CQBR.Sludge-RS-02.jpg (Not even a current photo - this was around 2,300 I think) I'm probably going to clean it now because it's starting to jizz black tar shit on my cheek when I shoot :\. Oh so was there any acceleration in gunk build up with steel cased versus brass? I'm gonna make another trip to the range after Florida and run a few hundred through but I'd guess I'm close to needing some lubrication...other than what it started with lol. How does that Redline grease work as opposed to some drops of regular lube? I've got some AeroShell 33MS and Mobil 28 but I use those for barrel nut threads/flanges and trigger groups. Edit: I should have mentioned that I'm running a ToolCraft BCG in the upper by the way, along with a PRI Gas Buster. And for what it's worth (despite not shooting suppressed), the PRI is hands down more effective in gas mitigation versus a Geissele ACH. With the Geissele on my other 10.3, I would usually get some gas and lube splatter back to the sun glasses at the end of the range day and need to wipe them down. I've yet once to do this with the PRI charging handle. I hadn't really thought about the timing of the rebate; I guess Federal wants to boost sales during the winter when a lot of the country isn't shooting. On the other hand, here in AZ, this is prime shooting season :D. Even still, offseason or not, it's a great time to stock up. I wouldn't really say there is much of a difference between steel and brass - at least with Wolf. Shooting suppressed is a filthy business no matter what ammo you use, heh. If there is a difference, it's pretty minor. I never think, "Oh, I've been shooting steel, I better clean it more often." Far as lubes, I prefer grease; it works great and lasts significantly longer between applications. I used to only use Super Lube, but all the talk about PTFE potentially releasing toxic vapors if exposed to enough heat finally sent me looking for a non-PTFE grease. After searching a bit, CV2 seemed to have the best stats (although it might be a little thick for extremely cold climates). I've been using it for a while and so far, so good - used it down to a little below 30 degrees and no issues. CherryBalmz is good stuff as well, and noticeably slicker; but, applying it every 300-500 makes that little bottle run out fast. If you're not shooting suppressed, CB is pretty cost effective; unsuppressed it can easily go 2k between applications, and it should be thin enough for just about any climate. Yeah, I think the Gas Buster is pretty hard to beat out of the box for gas redirection. I'm looking forward to checking out the new ambi Gas Buster that PRI is supposed to be releasing. It'd be nice to have the features of a GB, but with a slightly more modern (and hopefully more robust) design. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 5:52:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1/13/19 UPDATE: Didn't stack that many rounds on the rig today but shes well over 500 now. Still no lubrication but I opened the upper/lower to dry out after yesterday while doing some pistol work. The only issue I experienced today was limited to the bolt not locking open on empty. If you saw the previous post, that's due to under powered ammo and/or water still mixed in with the lubrication causing some friction. The thing still fired each/every round however and seemed unfazed otherwise. Temperatures were again at 25 or so and after letting the rifle sit in the snow for an hour if not more....and performing some accuracy tests at 7yds....I noticed no zero shifting. I use a 36yd zero and anything from 7yds and under requires using the bottom of the reticle....all shots landed right where I wanted them. All in all, it was another good day at the range. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 5:55:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks man, it's quickly growing to be one of my favorite rigs. The SBA3 brace really makes a huge difference too. That's one thing I forgot to mention, so yes. When I buried the rifle and rolled it around, it sat for at least 10min or until my hands warmed back up. Although temperatures didn't reach what actually caused the EOTech zero shifting it was damn cold enough at around 17 when I was doing this. After burying the rifle and clearing the issue with frozen snow in my chamber...I didn't notice any type of shifting by just knocking on my steel plate. I did also use an IPSC target with several black dots spray painted on it...for a quick accuracy test at 7yds. I was kind of rushing at this point as I lost core temperature but the first five rounds were all well below the black dots. POA and POI was definitely off BUT I forgot I use a 36yd zero. I have to use the bottom of the EO reticle in order to get that exact POA/POI shot from 7yds and under. I'm hitting the range again today and will give that accuracy portion a better go. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nice stick... did your EOtech have any zero shifts due to temperatures or did you even test? I do not get the chance to snow test my stuff in S Texas. It did snow last year but melted by the end of the day. That's one thing I forgot to mention, so yes. When I buried the rifle and rolled it around, it sat for at least 10min or until my hands warmed back up. Although temperatures didn't reach what actually caused the EOTech zero shifting it was damn cold enough at around 17 when I was doing this. After burying the rifle and clearing the issue with frozen snow in my chamber...I didn't notice any type of shifting by just knocking on my steel plate. I did also use an IPSC target with several black dots spray painted on it...for a quick accuracy test at 7yds. I was kind of rushing at this point as I lost core temperature but the first five rounds were all well below the black dots. POA and POI was definitely off BUT I forgot I use a 36yd zero. I have to use the bottom of the EO reticle in order to get that exact POA/POI shot from 7yds and under. I'm hitting the range again today and will give that accuracy portion a better go. |
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Posted: 1/15/2019 10:48:01 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the EOTech zero shift happened in large temperature swings so if it was cold out when you zero'd then threw it in the snow, it probably won't shift much. We'll have to see when it gets warmer and you let the gun sit out in the sun for a bit to heat it up and see if it retains zero. |
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