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Posted: 12/18/2020 10:47:32 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 12:07:15 AM EST
Okay then.
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 1:51:02 AM EST
Thanks Todd packer
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 2:04:11 AM EST
That is a lot  of new gun owners!!
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 6:35:54 AM EST
I'd like to spend a little unsupervised time in that plant.

BTW, does anyone think ammo mfgs are not making ammo?  Their jobs depend on people buying their product and this is and extremely high-demand time, so...
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 10:08:09 AM EST
They are making all they can 24/7. And selling it at 2X the price of a few months ago.

What would happen to toilet paper supplies if there were rumors of a stomach bug outbreak AND millions of people started using TP for the first time!!!
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 10:39:13 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 11:29:18 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 10mm_:
Thanks Todd packer
View Quote

HAHAHAH
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 3:53:32 PM EST
We appreciate the information but he comes off as a bit of an aggressive jackass, especially in the beginning. Not the best way to talk to your customers. He doesn’t come across as very presidential and needs to take a business communications course. I’m surprised their PR and marketing dept didn’t make him redo it which probably says a lot about how he is as a boss.
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 4:39:32 PM EST
I guess that's better than the moron from Hornady who went on one of the gun shows on the outdoor channel during the last 22LR shortage & laughed that people said they couldn't find 22 ammo & proceeded to shoot hundreds of rounds saying there is no shortage.
Link Posted: 12/19/2020 4:54:05 PM EST
Dude comes off as a total dick.

I’m not buying it, either.  His explanation doesn’t explain why every single store in town has (pretty much) zero ammo on the shelves, ever.

I went to three stores the other day and the only ammunition I saw was 3 boxes of .224 valk and 2 boxes of 460 bushmaster.  I’m not convinced that zero availability of any calibre is due to normal supply and demand.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 12:50:45 AM EST
Look, I generally buy his rationale as to the shortages. Demand is at an all time high while the ability to increase output/reduce cycle time is being squeezed by a global pandemic. I appreciate that they're adding to their payroll and I appreciate that they're not compromising the health of their employees.

I don't really appreciate the tone of this video, which basically says "listen you idiots, shut up". I get that he wants to push back against unfounded conspiracy theories, but some tact would have made the messaging a lot more effective.

Here's to hoping that the common cartridges will return to something resembling normal in '21.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:01:56 AM EST
I appreciate that they made this video at least addressing the issue, although i wish that they we're more informative. Let us know about some of the realities, the actual level of backlog, how they are prioritizing what ammo to make and where to sell it, because there's definitely more to the story. When i sign up for back in stock notifications for every single retailer, and months go by without any of them going back in stock, it clearly indicates the ammo that is being made is directed elsewhere. I guess it would be nice to get the perspective of some big retailers like cheaper than dirt etc in addition to the manufacturing side
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:00:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2020 11:13:10 AM EST by TGH456E]
I think his attitude was spot on...............  

You have threads upon threads of people guessing and getting pissed off about a situation they refuse to accept.
We've LITERALLY been thru this several (numerous) times now and the causes and end result have been the same.  

I'll say that again .......We've LITERALLY been thru this several (numerous) times now and the causes and end result have been the same ....."

But you have %^&* clowns showing up at the plant, all sorts of goofy conspiracy theories etc etc

I don't blame the guy for being frustrated............
Leave him and them alone to do their jobs............

(Even now after the guy being very clear about what his company is doing...... you have posters right here in this thread doubting his comments.
Every time we have this happen, you get all sorts of goofy ideas coming out of the woodwork.   It's supply VS demand.  Nothing more....... nothing less).

Tact only works with rational people who want to listen......... we are way past that.
So he was blunt to deal with $%^& clowns..............  which is how you deal with them.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 11:46:59 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TGH456E:
I think his attitude was spot on...............  

Tact only works with rational people who want to listen......... we are way past that.
So he was blunt to deal with $%^& clowns..............  which is how you deal with them.
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Fair point - I'm not really the target audience for this video and message.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 12:22:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 135Patriots:
Fair point - I'm not really the target audience for this video and message.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 135Patriots:
Originally Posted By TGH456E:
I think his attitude was spot on...............  

Tact only works with rational people who want to listen......... we are way past that.
So he was blunt to deal with $%^& clowns..............  which is how you deal with them.
Fair point - I'm not really the target audience for this video and message.


No I don't either of us are the target audience.......
Be that as it may......

I've been thru 5-7???? of these since the 1994 AW Ban.  
Each time the same thing happens.........  demand outstrips supply.  
Each time all sorts of excuses and conspiracy theories etc etc etc come out to "explain it."
I'm even pretty sure, like this guy today, in the past Companies made announcements to address the stupidity.
Nope..... not good enough.

In the end whatever "crises" started the panic, resolved or became clear...... demand dropped..... Supply returned...........  
Until, of course, the next time..........  and it all gets repeated ............      
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 1:14:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2020 1:22:46 PM EST by TxRabbitBane]
I find it difficult to believe that demand for oddball calibres is so high that it’s unobtainable.  You want to tell me that there is an increase in demand for .40, 9mm, .223, .308, and 7.62x39? I can believe that, but I doubt it’s so much that the industry can’t keep up. Everybody shoots .22LR - I can believe a surge in demand.

Sure it’s deer season, but I doubt that there are exponentially more deer hunters this year, so much so that no .270, 25-06, 6.5 creed, or whatever is available anywhere.

No 30-30? 7mm? 45-70? I doubt there’s a huge influx of people shooting 45LC or 6.5x284.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 5:02:27 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bfoosh06:
Glad to see a hands on report.
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No, More of a propaganda video, by a jerk.
Higher prices for product, wonder if his workers are making more an hour ?
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 5:04:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sujumanji:
..... he comes off as a bit of an aggressive jackass, especially in the beginning. Not the best way to talk to your customers. He doesn’t come across as very presidential and needs to take a business communications course. I’m surprised their PR and marketing dept didn’t make him redo it which probably says a lot about how he is as a boss.
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No shit !
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 5:33:22 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
I find it difficult to believe that demand for oddball calibres is so high that it’s unobtainable.  You want to tell me that there is an increase in demand for .40, 9mm, .223, .308, and 7.62x39? I can believe that, but I doubt it’s so much that the industry can’t keep up. Everybody shoots .22LR - I can believe a surge in demand.

Sure it’s deer season, but I doubt that there are exponentially more deer hunters this year, so much so that no .270, 25-06, 6.5 creed, or whatever is available anywhere.

No 30-30? 7mm? 45-70? I doubt there’s a huge influx of people shooting 45LC or 6.5x284.
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I'm sure resources are allocated to the primary calibers
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 7:39:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dogue:

I'm sure resources are allocated to the primary calibers
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dogue:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
I find it difficult to believe that demand for oddball calibres is so high that it’s unobtainable.  You want to tell me that there is an increase in demand for .40, 9mm, .223, .308, and 7.62x39? I can believe that, but I doubt it’s so much that the industry can’t keep up. Everybody shoots .22LR - I can believe a surge in demand.

Sure it’s deer season, but I doubt that there are exponentially more deer hunters this year, so much so that no .270, 25-06, 6.5 creed, or whatever is available anywhere.

No 30-30? 7mm? 45-70? I doubt there’s a huge influx of people shooting 45LC or 6.5x284.

I'm sure resources are allocated to the primary calibers


If that was the case, you’d be able to find those primary calibers (especially counting imports of those more common calibers).

It’s a tough sell that demand is so high for a handful of calibers that the whole US ammo industry plus the worldwide import market can’t keep up.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 8:10:15 PM EST
I spoke to a rep from Federal last week.  He said the issue is getting raw materials and they're quoting law enforcement customers delivery times of one year to one and a half years so who knows.
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 8:42:13 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jhl72:
I spoke to a rep from Federal last week.  He said the issue is getting raw materials and they're quoting law enforcement customers delivery times of one year to one and a half years so who knows.
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But the president says they’re cranking out ammo faster than ever before...

Both this and your statement can’t be true, so who is being dishonest?
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 8:53:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2020 8:56:31 PM EST by MouseBoy]
They are making money, but not as much as you may think.

They have very modestly raised prices.

The vast majority of the big ammo price increases have been on the retail level.

That said, Federal (VSTO) stock is very cheap and I'm in.

Link Posted: 12/20/2020 9:40:15 PM EST
I thought he was spot on in his presentation and explanation.
He didn’t come across as rude or arrogant.
Think I’ll buy some of his stock to
Link Posted: 12/20/2020 10:20:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/20/2020 10:27:11 PM EST by Polarbear31]
See. I told ya all we're making ammo.


Too bad our CEO seemed to come off unprofessional. He could have addressed the situation better or not at all.

Link Posted: 12/21/2020 9:36:07 AM EST
When demand exceeds supply, even a total asshole can make budget.  Be thankful you dont have to go to the weekly meeting headed by this guy.

He's got women moving little plastic marketing intensive boxes with 25 rounds.  Just like they did last year.  Maybe sell ammo in 1 gallon cans.  5 gallon buckets.  We dont need marketing.  We need ammo
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 9:52:06 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
They are making all they can 24/7. And selling it at 2X the price of a few months ago.

What would happen to toilet paper supplies if there were rumors of a stomach bug outbreak AND millions of people started using TP for the first time!!!
View Quote


Sounds like France.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 11:18:44 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xciapup:
When demand exceeds supply, even a total asshole can make budget.  Be thankful you dont have to go to the weekly meeting headed by this guy.

He's got women moving little plastic marketing intensive boxes with 25 rounds.  Just like they did last year.  Maybe sell ammo in 1 gallon cans.  5 gallon buckets.  We dont need marketing.  We need ammo
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I may want buckets but most of the 7 million new gun owners just want a few boxes. If you can't keep up with demand you produce the products that offer the most ROI
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 12:17:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xciapup:
When demand exceeds supply, even a total asshole can make budget.  Be thankful you dont have to go to the weekly meeting headed by this guy.

He's got women moving little plastic marketing intensive boxes with 25 rounds.  Just like they did last year.  Maybe sell ammo in 1 gallon cans.  5 gallon buckets.  We dont need marketing.  We need ammo
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I agree. There is so much money spent on marketing it's unreal. Ammo sells it self. Apparently the marketing people know more than we do. If it was my way it would be bulk ammo for everyone.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 12:21:54 PM EST
My industry is in the crapper since March and this guy is whining because he has too much business. Fk this guy. Prick.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 12:54:31 PM EST
Personality aside, there were real gaps in supply for years.  The supply of 12 ga steel sold out every year, long before duck season ended...same with many hunting loads like 300 win unless you wanted low quality ammo.  Federal Premiums sold out for years in some loads...as did certain types of defensive ammo.  Brass?  Win brass hasn’t been in stock in some calibers in years...


I get the vibe that they do a lot of lean manufacturing with just in time production and delivery...

It keeps it in short supply.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:38:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ncsteeltoe:
My industry is in the crapper since March and this guy is whining because he has too much business. Fk this guy. Prick.
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Exactly. If you don’t want to deal with the public and customer service, get a different job.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:44:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Sujumanji:
We appreciate the information but he comes off as a bit of an aggressive jackass, especially in the beginning. Not the best way to talk to your customers. He doesn’t come across as very presidential and needs to take a business communications course. I’m surprised their PR and marketing dept didn’t make him redo it which probably says a lot about how he is as a boss.
View Quote


Don't like it shop somewhere else, and work somewhere else.

The choice is yours.

Besides it is a generational thing.

His generation enjoys a good "you know what really grinds my gears?" monolog.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 1:50:42 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Dude comes off as a total dick.

I’m not buying it, either.  His explanation doesn’t explain why every single store in town has (pretty much) zero ammo on the shelves, ever.

I went to three stores the other day and the only ammunition I saw was 3 boxes of .224 valk and 2 boxes of 460 bushmaster.  I’m not convinced that zero availability of any calibre is due to normal supply and demand.
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Did you watch the video?

More people buying more ammo.

Big retailers get the ammo before local stores.

There is over a years worth of backorders that get filled before a local store gets them.

They stop making anything other than the high volume stuff like: 9mm, and 223.

The United Nations bought out Federal and is eliminating ammo sales in the US. J/K
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 2:21:49 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Happy2shoot:



Did you watch the video?

More people buying more ammo.

Big retailers get the ammo before local stores.

There is over a years worth of backorders that get filled before a local store gets them.

They stop making anything other than the high volume stuff like: 9mm, and 223.

The United Nations bought out Federal and is eliminating ammo sales in the US. J/K
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Happy2shoot:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Dude comes off as a total dick.

I’m not buying it, either.  His explanation doesn’t explain why every single store in town has (pretty much) zero ammo on the shelves, ever.

I went to three stores the other day and the only ammunition I saw was 3 boxes of .224 valk and 2 boxes of 460 bushmaster.  I’m not convinced that zero availability of any calibre is due to normal supply and demand.



Did you watch the video?

More people buying more ammo.

Big retailers get the ammo before local stores.

There is over a years worth of backorders that get filled before a local store gets them.

They stop making anything other than the high volume stuff like: 9mm, and 223.

The United Nations bought out Federal and is eliminating ammo sales in the US. J/K


So the US demand for a few calibers exceeds the whole industry’s ability to produce it (including the import market)?

Doubtful.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 4:58:39 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:


So the US demand for a few calibers exceeds the whole industry’s ability to produce it (including the import market)?

Doubtful.
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So, what is the end-game?

Why do "THEY" limit ammo sales for a few months every 4 years?

Then open it back up, with unlimited ammo at discount prices?
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 6:09:09 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By xciapup:
When demand exceeds supply, even a total asshole can make budget.  Be thankful you dont have to go to the weekly meeting headed by this guy.

He's got women moving little plastic marketing intensive boxes with 25 rounds.  Just like they did last year.  Maybe sell ammo in 1 gallon cans.  5 gallon buckets.  We dont need marketing.  We need ammo
View Quote


No...... we need people to stop wandering down ignorant conspiracy theories and leave them alone to make ammunition.  

I'd be upset with people sending me hate mail, showing up at my work harassing me and my employees for no good reason.  

We caused the shortages to ourselves............

And I'd love to go to meetings with him, he clearly takes care of his employees.......  

     
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 6:11:08 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ncsteeltoe:
My industry is in the crapper since March and this guy is whining because he has too much business. Fk this guy. Prick.
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No he's not whining about the business he has, he's whining about some of the $%^& clowns that are harassing him and his company over some ignorant crap.
There's a difference.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 6:16:53 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:


So the US demand for a few calibers exceeds the whole industry’s ability to produce it (including the import market)?

Doubtful.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By Happy2shoot:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Dude comes off as a total dick.

I’m not buying it, either.  His explanation doesn’t explain why every single store in town has (pretty much) zero ammo on the shelves, ever.

I went to three stores the other day and the only ammunition I saw was 3 boxes of .224 valk and 2 boxes of 460 bushmaster.  I’m not convinced that zero availability of any calibre is due to normal supply and demand.



Did you watch the video?

More people buying more ammo.

Big retailers get the ammo before local stores.

There is over a years worth of backorders that get filled before a local store gets them.

They stop making anything other than the high volume stuff like: 9mm, and 223.

The United Nations bought out Federal and is eliminating ammo sales in the US. J/K


So the US demand for a few calibers exceeds the whole industry’s ability to produce it (including the import market)?

Doubtful.


Yes..... that is what is going on here.  
FWIW...... every time we've had a panic like this ...... whatever your favorite conspiracy theory is right now....has been proven wrong.  
I'm sorry, "this-go-around" is no different then the last 7? times...........  

So whatever your conspiracy theory is..... say it.... but it'll be disproven in a year or so.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 6:24:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TGH456E:


Yes..... that is what is going on here.  
FWIW...... every time we've had a panic like this ...... whatever your favorite conspiracy theory is right now....has been proven wrong.  
I'm sorry, "this-go-around" is no different then the last 7? times...........  

So whatever your conspiracy theory is..... say it.... but it'll be disproven in a year or so.
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Originally Posted By TGH456E:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Originally Posted By Happy2shoot:
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Dude comes off as a total dick.

I’m not buying it, either.  His explanation doesn’t explain why every single store in town has (pretty much) zero ammo on the shelves, ever.

I went to three stores the other day and the only ammunition I saw was 3 boxes of .224 valk and 2 boxes of 460 bushmaster.  I’m not convinced that zero availability of any calibre is due to normal supply and demand.



Did you watch the video?

More people buying more ammo.

Big retailers get the ammo before local stores.

There is over a years worth of backorders that get filled before a local store gets them.

They stop making anything other than the high volume stuff like: 9mm, and 223.

The United Nations bought out Federal and is eliminating ammo sales in the US. J/K


So the US demand for a few calibers exceeds the whole industry’s ability to produce it (including the import market)?

Doubtful.


Yes..... that is what is going on here.  
FWIW...... every time we've had a panic like this ...... whatever your favorite conspiracy theory is right now....has been proven wrong.  
I'm sorry, "this-go-around" is no different then the last 7? times...........  

So whatever your conspiracy theory is..... say it.... but it'll be disproven in a year or so.


I haven’t implied a conspiracy anywhere. I just don’t think the numbers add up.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 9:43:01 PM EST
He’s still a dick.
Link Posted: 12/21/2020 9:49:36 PM EST
This is exactly the type of video someone hiding ammo in a secret warehouse would make.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 12:18:29 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TGH456E:


No he's not whining about the business he has, he's whining about some of the $%^& clowns that are harassing him and his company over some ignorant crap.
There's a difference.
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If he doesn't have someone sifting through the loony emails so they never reach his desk it says a lot about his ability to delegate responsibility.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 2:38:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/22/2020 3:01:43 AM EST by UnaStamus]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Dude comes off as a total dick.

I’m not buying it, either.  His explanation doesn’t explain why every single store in town has (pretty much) zero ammo on the shelves, ever.

I went to three stores the other day and the only ammunition I saw was 3 boxes of .224 valk and 2 boxes of 460 bushmaster.  I’m not convinced that zero availability of any calibre is due to normal supply and demand.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TxRabbitBane:
Dude comes off as a total dick.

I’m not buying it, either.  His explanation doesn’t explain why every single store in town has (pretty much) zero ammo on the shelves, ever.

I went to three stores the other day and the only ammunition I saw was 3 boxes of .224 valk and 2 boxes of 460 bushmaster.  I’m not convinced that zero availability of any calibre is due to normal supply and demand.

Because the instant that the ammo hits the store, it’s gone.  Store owners and employees are hooking themselves and their buddies and family up before customers.  I’m sure there’s a lot of ammo that is coming in the back door of your gun shops and going right out to the employee vehicles.  Or they’re immediately calling their friends and family to come in as soon as they open to buy the ammo.  

But even if that’s not the case, the instant that ammo is hitting the shelves, it’s being purchased.  People are literally calling gun shops daily asking for ammo.  They’re visiting stored daily too.  And many are buying the maximum amount of ammo that the store will let them.  Even though most of them have no damn need for the ammo, they’re buying it.  And many are not shooting it.  A bunch of these people buying the ammo are stockpiling it, which is why so many stores are limiting how much each customer can purchase.  Your whole premise is that this is normal supply and demand, but it’s anything from normal.  More people are buying ammo than ever before, and they’re buying as much as they can because they have been told to.  Nobody needed to hoard TP or Lysol wipes, but they did because people are sheep and they get easily scared into this crap.  Gun owners are just like everyone else, and a lot of gun owners are sheep who are easily scared into believing that they need to stockpile ammo and buy ARs and AKs for no reason other than what- people getting the flu or an election outcome?  But yet it happened.

And he’s not lying.  They’re making ammo as fast as they can.  They actually went into their basement to pull out old machines, moved them to new locations in the main facility in Anoka, MN, and started a whole new production floor that they’ve never before done.  And yes, they’re on a major hiring drive.  And yes, there are idiots showing up to the factory regularly with conspiracy theories, acting like jackasses.    

If you doubt this, wait until late summer or fall of 2021 when ammo supplies start to come back.  Then see how much ammo (and semi-auto rifles) magically shows up for sale online.  Or when you suddenly see videos online or social media of people doing massive mag dumps with all the ammo they stockpiled for no reason.  It happened in 2009 after Obama was elected, and 2013 into 2014 after Sandy Hook.


Originally Posted By pebble:
I appreciate that they made this video at least addressing the issue, although i wish that they we're more informative. Let us know about some of the realities, the actual level of backlog, how they are prioritizing what ammo to make and where to sell it, because there's definitely more to the story. When i sign up for back in stock notifications for every single retailer, and months go by without any of them going back in stock, it clearly indicates the ammo that is being made is directed elsewhere. I guess it would be nice to get the perspective of some big retailers like cheaper than dirt etc in addition to the manufacturing side

Federal and Speer still have supply contracts they have to honor, in addition to the order backlogs.  Federal supplies ammo to more than half the LE agencies in the US, along with federal LE agencies.  On top of that, they are taking orders from distributors.  Federal is filling orders, but distributors are the ones that are disbursing it out from there.  Federal isn’t shipping directly to individual stores.  

Also, Cheaper Than Dirt is a known predatory markup offender.  They have stock, and they have predatory pricing.  People might want to start looking at why they have so much ammo in stock, and why they’re charging $60 for a box of 50rds of 9mm.  CTD did this during previous gun/ammo panics, and people always seem to forget about how big of dirtbags they are.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 12:19:40 PM EST
There is ammo for sale.  Saw 223 and 308 at our local independent gun store, Sunday afternoon.  Prices just suck. Free market is working.  The problem is with Walmarts absence and their contract pricing, i suspect the prices will hold higher this time, but there is supply out there.  There still are the hoarders who line up at the sporting goods store for when it opens to get their ammo purchase limit.  Those same hoarders are buying up the ammo for any caliber they can with visions of gunbroker riches for 45 LC and 30-30.  

Who the heck is protesting ammo supply outside their plant?  Crazy.
Link Posted: 12/22/2020 12:27:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By UnaStamus:

Also, Cheaper Than Dirt is a known predatory markup offender.  They have stock, and they have predatory pricing.  People might want to start looking at why they have so much ammo in stock, and why they’re charging $60 for a box of 50rds of 9mm.  CTD did this during previous gun/ammo panics, and people always seem to forget about how big of dirtbags they are.
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Capitalism in action.  They can charge what they want, and I can pay it or refuse.  I refuse.  No biggie.  I don't want someone dictating what people can charge, ala price controls.  That leads to nothing available.
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 12:01:04 AM EST
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Originally Posted By pebble:
When i sign up for back in stock notifications for every single retailer, and months go by without any of them going back in stock, it clearly indicates the ammo that is being made is directed elsewhere. I guess it would be nice to get the perspective of some big retailers like cheaper than dirt etc in addition to the manufacturing side
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EXACTLY!

Last two/three times this happened nobody....not anybody could get M855 or M193....well...nobody but Cheaper Than Dirt and a few other small time players.  Now CTD is back at it again.  Got an email blast that they had some 9mm for $2/round.  A$$ Clowns.
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 12:09:40 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2020 12:18:56 AM EST by UnaStamus]
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Originally Posted By billclo:


Capitalism in action.  They can charge what they want, and I can pay it or refuse.  I refuse.  No biggie.  I don't want someone dictating what people can charge, ala price controls.  That leads to nothing available.
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Agreed. But gun owners complain about prices and availability, but don’t hold price gougers accountable after the fact by refusing to patronize them.  The other beauty of capitalism is that we as consumers have the ability to hold retailers accountable and make examples out of ones that do dirty shit.  It’s just somewhat funny that people seem to have such short memories about this stuff because when ammo goes back down, the same people complaining about pricing problems are the ones that will go right back to patronizing companies like CTD who were unfairly price gouging and sitting on inventory.  Same thing happened in 2009/10, and again in 2013/14 after the last gun buying panics.  After the last one with Sandy Hook, people across numerous platforms were calling for a complete boycott of CTD, but yet here they are.  Point is, people can’t complain about high prices and lack of access, and then blame the factories when the retailers are the ones that are a contributor to this problem.  This also along with peoples’ assertions that ammo isn’t showing up to shops just because they’re not seeing it on the shelves.  I think a lot of people might want to start asking their local gun stores what their policy is about employee purchases of ammunition, or employees tipping off friends/family before to come in to buy saved ammo before the general public, before they start pointing the finger at the manufacturers.  

I could care less if people buy from CTD.  If you do, you’re getting ripped off and you deserve it for patronizing them, and I have no sympathy for you because you wasted $59.95 on a single box of 50rds of 9mm FMJ, only to find out it’s only worth $9.99.  The people buying this ammo are the biggest cause of this problem.
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 5:04:03 AM EST
Not that hard to imagine. I have family members who have bought multiple guns each this year who were not gun owners this time last year. They ask how much ammo they should buy, and I simply told them as much as they can find or afford. Do this X millions of new gun owners and this is billions of rounds of new demand in a short time period the market was not previously built to supply.

One of them just bought an AR15 on layaway, and I asked what brand they got. They didn't even know. The gun was delivered to the store while they were browsing around, and put a down payment on it on the spot. Thats the type of people those of us who have been shooting for years and years are now competing with for supply. They'll buy up 223/556 by the case paying .70/rd not knowing any better.
Link Posted: 12/23/2020 10:05:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/23/2020 10:06:02 AM EST by Jetfuelburner]
If you all might recall, after the last panic subsided (I honestly cant recall if it was after Trump got elected or Obamas second term when it was evident he was leaving guns alone for the most part) Federal had a rebate program on their ammo to try to prop up sales that had literally tanked.  I decided to freshen up my stockpiles and the bonus was on top of hundreds of dollars in rebates for ammo that was finally at normal prices, I was buying from a retailer that for one of the flavors of ammo...was offering a free Magpul magazine with each can of ammo.  Let's hope we see that again.
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