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Posted: 11/14/2018 3:27:04 PM EDT
[#1]
64g. Not sure how the lower velocity 75g would do.
 Speer Gold dot .223 64g SP from 7.5 in. barrel |
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Posted: 11/14/2018 4:40:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Gold Dot 75’s already run a bit mild, I’d worry that they’d even get up to expansion velocity in the first place, let alone for any even semi-reasonable distance.
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Posted: 11/14/2018 5:31:49 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gold Dot 75’s already run a bit mild, I’d worry that they’d even get up to expansion velocity in the first place, let alone for any even semi-reasonable distance. The video above proves that the 64g was real close to the minimum velocity for expansion threshold with that long neck, and I would guess that the bullet construction is nearly identical between the 64g and the slower moving 75g. |
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Posted: 11/14/2018 6:05:54 PM EDT
[#4]
Ok. Looks like I’ll keep the 75’s for the 10.5 and the 16.
What the go to for a 7.5? Any recommendations? Or is everything pretty much going to suck out if 7.5? |
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Posted: 11/14/2018 6:13:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. Looks like I’ll keep the 75’s for the 10.5 and the 16. What the go to for a 7.5? Any recommendations? Or is everything pretty much going to suck out if 7.5? 
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Posted: 11/14/2018 6:19:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 300 BLK. |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 2:53:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree. The video above proves that the 64g was real close to the minimum velocity for expansion threshold with that long neck, and I would guess that the bullet construction is nearly identical between the 64g and the slower moving 75g. |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 5:27:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok. Looks like I’ll keep the 75’s for the 10.5 and the 16. What the go to for a 7.5? Any recommendations? Or is everything pretty much going to suck out if 7.5? |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 8:50:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Conventional wisdom that usually gets passed around on ARFCOM is that the ballistic performance of 5.56 basically goes to shit once you go bellow ten inches, regardless of what round you use. |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 9:39:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Add to that, the Gold Dot 62, 64, and 75 are on the slow side, especially out of anything under 16". I believe the only exception is the 55gr Gold Dot, which may have enough velocity to expand out of a 7.5". That would be the only option I could think of for a 7.5". Mk318, if you can find it, would probably work at CQ range too. Maybe the FBIT3 as well. |
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Posted: 11/19/2018 6:11:23 PM EDT
[#11]
7.5 inch AR pistols are the stupidest f***ing ideas ever.
The 223 has VERY LITTLE mass behind it...not even that of a 380 ACP. It relies 100% upon VELOCITY to do its work. With a 7.5" barrel, you've robbed about 200-250 FPS off the round's initial velocity (figure 20-30 FPS/inch of barrel loss) Why???? |
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Posted: 11/19/2018 7:09:25 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Add to that, the Gold Dot 62, 64, and 75 are on the slow side, especially out of anything under 16". I believe the only exception is the 55gr Gold Dot, which may have enough velocity to expand out of a 7.5". That would be the only option I could think of for a 7.5". 
I’ll give them a go. To the few not being productive in s tech forum and calling something I want stupid and asking why....... because I can. Good enough for you? I have plenty of duty/work guns. This is a toy. |
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Posted: 11/19/2018 11:29:10 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7.5 inch AR pistols are the stupidest f***ing ideas ever. The 223 has VERY LITTLE mass behind it...not even that of a 380 ACP. It relies 100% upon VELOCITY to do its work. With a 7.5" barrel, you've robbed about 200-250 FPS off the round's initial velocity (figure 20-30 FPS/inch of barrel loss) Why???? A weapon that uses the same ammo and magazines that I have stashed in all of my chest rigs, plate carriers and bags as well as in my houses and vehicles. A weapon that would most likely be used from a few feet to several yards but with which I can also make 100 yard headshots and 300 yard torso hits if necessary. A weapon that unlike pistol caliber SMG/PCC weapons, fires a round that can defeat soft body armor. Besides, 30 rounds of 55 grain JHP at 2400 FPS is nothing to scoff at. |
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Posted: 11/20/2018 12:12:05 AM EDT
[#14]
FYI on average you lose approx 800 fps from 16" down to 7.5" :D
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Posted: 11/20/2018 9:12:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it gives me a 23” long, 5lb weapon that I can easily stow and transport in places where I could never take a full size carbine. A weapon that uses the same ammo and magazines that I have stashed in all of my chest rigs, plate carriers and bags as well as in my houses and vehicles. A weapon that would most likely be used from a few feet to several yards but with which I can also make 100 yard headshots and 300 yard torso hits if necessary. A weapon that unlike pistol caliber SMG/PCC weapons, fires a round that can defeat soft body armor. Besides, 30 rounds of JHP at 2400 FPS is nothing to scoff at. |
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Posted: 11/20/2018 9:37:51 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IT was when 5.7x28 owners said exactly the same things you're saying. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Because it gives me a 23” long, 5lb weapon that I can easily stow and transport in places where I could never take a full size carbine. A weapon that uses the same ammo and magazines that I have stashed in all of my chest rigs, plate carriers and bags as well as in my houses and vehicles. A weapon that would most likely be used from a few feet to several yards but with which I can also make 100 yard headshots and 300 yard torso hits if necessary. A weapon that unlike pistol caliber SMG/PCC weapons, fires a round that can defeat soft body armor. Besides, 30 rounds of JHP at 2400 FPS is nothing to scoff at. |
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Posted: 11/20/2018 9:38:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IT was when 5.7x28 owners said exactly the same things you're saying. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Because it gives me a 23" long, 5lb weapon that I can easily stow and transport in places where I could never take a full size carbine. A weapon that uses the same ammo and magazines that I have stashed in all of my chest rigs, plate carriers and bags as well as in my houses and vehicles. A weapon that would most likely be used from a few feet to several yards but with which I can also make 100 yard headshots and 300 yard torso hits if necessary. A weapon that unlike pistol caliber SMG/PCC weapons, fires a round that can defeat soft body armor. Besides, 30 rounds of JHP at 2400 FPS is nothing to scoff at. |
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Posted: 11/20/2018 11:17:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it gives me a 23” long, 5lb weapon that I can easily stow and transport in places where I could never take a full size carbine. A weapon that uses the same ammo and magazines that I have stashed in all of my chest rigs, plate carriers and bags as well as in my houses and vehicles. A weapon that would most likely be used from a few feet to several yards but with which I can also make 100 yard headshots and 300 yard torso hits if necessary. A weapon that unlike pistol caliber SMG/PCC weapons, fires a round that can defeat soft body armor. Besides, 30 rounds of JHP at 2400 FPS is nothing to scoff at. |
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Posted: 11/20/2018 11:31:46 AM EDT
[#19]
If you’re set on that barrel length the 5.56 50 grain TSX load from Black Hills is the only way to go.
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Posted: 11/20/2018 11:47:14 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because it gives me a 23” long, 5lb weapon that I can easily stow and transport in places where I could never take a full size carbine. A weapon that uses the same ammo and magazines that I have stashed in all of my chest rigs, plate carriers and bags as well as in my houses and vehicles. A weapon that would most likely be used from a few feet to several yards but with which I can also make 100 yard headshots and 300 yard torso hits if necessary. A weapon that unlike pistol caliber SMG/PCC weapons, fires a round that can defeat soft body armor. Besides, 30 rounds of JHP at 2400 FPS is nothing to scoff at. MK 262 from 7.5" barrel Speer Gold Dot 75gr from 7.5" barrel He also calibrated tests on 64gr GDSP, 5.56 Ranger Bonded, TSX 55gr, TSX 70gr. Only one that performed well was the RA556B. So IF you are going with a 7.5" make sure you use 5.56 SP, like the RA556B or M855A1. Why not just get a 10.5"? Less blast, less concussion, more velocity for those 100 yard shots, but still very maneuverable. |
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Posted: 11/20/2018 11:48:43 AM EDT
[#21]
DUPE
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Posted: 11/20/2018 10:21:14 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 100 yards with a 7.5? You're dreaming bro. Not enough energy at 100, shit, even 15, to do damage worthy of shooting that round. MK 262 from 7.5" barrel Speer Gold Dot 75gr from 7.5" barrel He also calibrated tests on 64gr GDSP, 5.56 Ranger Bonded, TSX 55gr, TSX 70gr. Only one that performed well was the RA556B. So IF you are going with a 7.5" make sure you use 5.56 SP, like the RA556B or M855A1. Why not just get a 10.5"? Less blast, less concussion, more velocity for those 100 yard shots, but still very maneuverable. https://youtu.be/jmLFElw3QDQ Hornady 5.56 G,X TAP 55gr performed best with his testing, but good luck finding it since Hornady restricts sales to lowly civilians. I happen to have a few hundred rounds of this but I’m not selling it because when I get around to building a 7.5 PDW this will be my go to ammo. 50gr TSX probably works even better and is not restricted. |
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Posted: 11/20/2018 10:31:39 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you talking about the 75gr Gold Dot round? Because you’re not going to get 2400 FPS from 75 Gold Dots from a 7.5” barrel. My 14” is loaded with GD 75’s and it’s clocking around that number. |
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Posted: 11/20/2018 11:23:37 PM EDT
[#24]
I’ll snag some 50gr tsx along with the 55gr gold dots I just got.
Thanks guys. Edit: whoa, $75 for a box of 50!!?? Yikes |
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Posted: 11/21/2018 12:46:05 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm a little confused about the under-performance of the 75 grain Gold Dot. In my ammo thread, a bunch of people were suggesting it because of its supposed stellar performance. A video I watched showed it blowing through a windshield and still expanding just fine.
Are you guys saying its performance is weak only out of a short barrel? |
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Posted: 11/21/2018 11:04:58 AM EDT
[#26]
Has something changed in the last year in the world of 5.56 ballistics? Why is there suddenly the interest in these ultra short 5.56 guns?
I understand doing an ultra short in 300 BLK or something, but in 5.56? Unless you're just really into making concussion and noise but not much else, I don't understand. |
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Posted: 11/21/2018 11:14:15 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
7.5 inch AR pistols are the stupidest f***ing ideas ever. The 223 has VERY LITTLE mass behind it...not even that of a 380 ACP. It relies 100% upon VELOCITY to do its work. With a 7.5" barrel, you've robbed about 200-250 FPS off the round's initial velocity (figure 20-30 FPS/inch of barrel loss) Why???? |
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Posted: 11/21/2018 12:07:42 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm a little confused about the under-performance of the 75 grain Gold Dot. In my ammo thread, a bunch of people were suggesting it because of its supposed stellar performance. A video I watched showed it blowing through a windshield and still expanding just fine. Are you guys saying its performance is weak only out of a short barrel? Go up just a couple inches in barrel length and your effectiveness goes up dramatically. My 10.3” will frag 77gr TMKs out to 250m, my 12” to 300m. Until some revolution in ammunition tech happens, any .223 <10” is a range toy, to me. |
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Posted: 11/21/2018 12:26:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has something changed in the last year in the world of 5.56 ballistics? Why is there suddenly the interest in these ultra short 5.56 guns? I understand doing an ultra short in 300 BLK or something, but in 5.56? Unless you're just really into making concussion and noise but not much else, I don't understand. I can’t speak for others but I like to simplify my ammo, I don’t want .300blkout, one time accidentally loading 5.56 into a .300blkout chamber and you have a kaboom... plus it’s still much more expensive to practice/train/plink with .300blkout. I don’t see the appeal of .300blkout, if you want subsonic ammo and quiet, why not subsonic 9mm? The 9mm has many proven expanding rounds that will perform well if that is what you are going after. |
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Posted: 11/21/2018 9:27:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Sorry to be that guy, but velocity out of a 7.5" 5.56 will be crap. Any 5.56 shorter than 10.5" is a range toy. Just shoot any ammo you got for plinking. A 7.5" is not a defense or match gun.
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