I think the 6.5G is stomping other alternatives because of the hunting crowd.

The 224V is good for paper and steel out to a gazzilion yards as is the 22Nosler but neither are selling as well as the 6.5G.  I think companies fail to realize that much of gun sales are driven by hunters, even the AR crowd.

I rarely see the others as alternative choices in my AO.  I see the 6.5G, 6.8 and .300BO all the time.  I never see the other two that are being pushed by the industry.

Are you seeing the .223 caliber alternatives in your AO?

the Grendel has 6.5 in its name so that's why it is selling.   Tagging along with the 6.5 Creedmoor surge.

Gun sakes are not driven by hunters, not with AR platform

I don't think that's accurate at all.

6.8 and Creedmore, are healthy in ammo choice around S.E. Wisconsin...
Yet,

My 6.5 G goes hungry
And we have tons of deer hunters.

Lol...prove me wrong....

I hunt, built a 6.5 Grendel specifically for hunting.

I love using my 6.5 for hunting. Never lost an animal and the ones I shoot are drt or don't make it more than 20 feet

I made two 6.5G’s specifically for hunting.

I built mine to hunt with along with the capability to shoot long range all in one short barreled rifle.  It just beats a 5.56 in every aspect in my opinion.

I think any caliber sales are driven my marketing. In Gredel's case it's latching on to the latest ballistic coefficient craze. Take any common round, sleek it out to make a higher BC and market the living shit out of it. Then we end up with Valkyrie, Grendel, Creedmore, PRC, etc. Most people (and I generally count myself among them) are challenged enough trying to shoot straight under 200 yards. More people don't even have access to a place where they could shoot past 100. Yet the "long range" pitch is the message of the day.

It's all a coordinated marketing blitz. The ammo makers need commercial gun makers to give them a platform and the gun makers need new calibers to keep selling guns. There's no magic. The broader market has not been asking for long range options. It's just what they are telling the market that it suddenly needs.

-Stooxie

Same here.  I have several friends building 6.5 Grendel’s to hunt.

#metoo

I don't agree totally.  The 6.5 bullets have a high BC but also have great sectional density which translates into fantastic performance on game.  That is why I chose the 6.5 over the 6.8.

I own 6.5 Grendel, 6.8SPC and 7.62x39mm AR-15's. What did I use deer hunting this year, last year, the year before that...........?

A .308 bolt action.

Many people think the 6.5 Grendel is superior to 6.8 or 7.62x39mm. This belief is based solely on BC superiority. Inside 250 yards BC is irrelevant.

All three of these rounds are virtually equal to one another inside of 200 yards.

I've assembled three for the same reason with a forth in the works.

I think we're proving someone wrong...

While hunting was a part of it, the primary appeal of 6.5G for me was a bolt-action precision rifle with cross-platform compatibility.

I had originally looked at 308 and while proven, sitting a bench firing 100+ rounds with the recoil isn't that enjoyable.  I'm not recoil sensitive but the accumulative effect takes it's toll.  I then looked at 6.5 Creedmoor which is a fantastic round but I don't have the range distances to take full advantage.  I had also looked at a bolt in 5.56 but there are few offerings and I don't like the action of the Ruger American.  Since I only shoot 5.56 in my AR's, I didn't want to start mixing rounds between the bolt action and AR.

That left me looking at the 6.5G and it's a great caliber.  My Howa Mini-Action is a tack driver and does well enough with Wolf MC to get small pests.  That leaves hunting...

Since I hunt in a shotgun zone, my choices are limited to slugs, muzzleloaders and pistols.  I've taken deer with slugs and muzzleloaders and wanted something different.  My first AR pistol build is in 300BLK.  Why?  Simply because except for the upper, everything else from my AR collection is compatible which makes it an easy transition and since my longest shots are less than 150 yards where I hunt, the 300BLK will work.

Once I'm happy with the way the 300BLK pistol is running, I'll build one in 6.5G.  This'll eventually be my primary hunting pistol but with the 300BLK pistol setup for hunting, I can take my time with this one and build it exactly the way I want, piece for piece.

Right now, the biggest drawback for 6.5G is there are few offerings at any of the local stores.  While I bulk buy online (and may eventually get back into reloading), it's nice having a caliber that you know  you can find on the shelves.  300BLK is everywhere around here which is another reason my first pistol build is in this caliber.

That may be mostly true, but I can get out to 600 any day I want to drive to the range.  Grendel rocks.  Plus deer and such.

6.5 Grendel sells because its performance covers a lot of different tasks, despite industry hype for new cartridges that weren't that well thought-out.

One of the main criticisms levied against it early-on was how it wasn't suited well at all for hunting unless you used a 24" barrel, and that it was only good for punching paper targets, nothing more.

This was stated repeatedly, despite Bill Alexander envisioning it as a white tail cartridge for the AR15.

Then people proceeded to kill everything they pointed at with it, even from 10.5" barrels in extreme cold.

I looked at the game survey we have running on the Grendel forum and was considering tallying up everything again, but there are pages upon pages of results that will take some time to go through, and that's only for people who have taken the time to respond.

I'm counting 683 samples so far, with the vast majority of those being deer and hogs.  Looks to be about a 60% DRT rate, with ~75% recovered within 25yds of the shot, well over 90% recovered within 50yds, and over 95% recovered within 75yds.

Barrel lengths range from 10.5" to 24", with the majority seeming to be 16", 18", and 20", with a recent trend growing in 11.5"-12.7", especially with Nosler 129gr ABLR.

You can take a little compact AR15 and hunt with it like this, then turn around and shoot long range with it and actually hear the impacts on steel, use it for a truck gun, Home Defense, or an affordable plinker.

It's the most versatile cartridge available for the AR15, which is why I like it.

There is no big industry manufacturer really behind Grendel as their baby, so anything you see from a marketing perspective is usually writers taking notice of it long ago and trying to genuinely tell people about its merits.

Many of us have been chasing more BC for decades, and it was always available with the 6.5mm projectile line-up, but there just wasn't anything available for the AR15 until 2003.

For the same reasons the BC helps retain energy at long range, 6.5mm projectiles also help retain energy for the shorter ranges that apply to hunting, which is why SBR/Pistol - 16" Grendels do so well in that regard.

X2

12" 6.5 Grendel vs 16.3" AK (or AR15) and 12" Grendel vs 20" SKS or AR15 in 7.62x39

123gr Scenar vs 123gr FMJ
200yds:  1100ft-lbs vs 854ft-lbs

12" 6.5 Grendel 120gr Federal vs 20" SKS Hornady 7.62x39 123gr SST
200yds: 2025fps 1093ft-lbs vs 1821fps 905 ft-lbs

12" Grendel 123gr SST vs 20" SKS 7.62x39 123gr SST
200yds: 1924fps 1011ft-lbs vs 1821fps 905 ft-lbs

I'm not even comparing same barrel lengths, but "handicapping" the Grendel with shorter barrels, while using 16.3" AK and 20" SKS ballistics for the x39.

If I compare the same length barrels, it's not even fair anymore to the x39.  I had to tie one hand behind Grendel's back just to even the playing field a bit, which also allows the Grendel AR15 to don a suppressor and still be a shorter overall length.

Me too, a third will be built in the form of a pistol for HD.

Actually I think it's the opposite. I grew up hunting out west.  Deer, bear, elk mostly. The hunting crowd always seemed to be late to come around for something newer and stick to older offerings for a longer period. Target and precision seem to be more of the drivers lately.

Typically, I'd agree.  Grendel changes things I think.

Girlfriend/ex-gf/who the fuck knows at the moment works at Cabela's.  They can't keep Grendel on the shelves, and the hunting department guys say it tends to be older guys (no judgment, his words) that are more classic hunters than the 'tactical' side of shooting keep grabbing it up.

Agreed.  It's like that lately,  but for years prior some had heard of a Grendel and that's about it.  Any range trip and it was an oddball.  Not so much anymore. I was told on more than a few occasions the Grendel wasn't big or powerful enough for hunting.

It was even like that with the 6.5 Creedmoor but for a shorter period of time. When I took mine out I always got lectured about the .308 or .260 and the no real need for it. Now the same people are all in the know about the 6.5 Creedmoor and my 6mm Creedmoor has taken its spot. I get the same comments.  Why bother there's the 243... usually these comments are from the hunting crew.

Funny how I never had any interest in the 243 whether a bolt gun or AR-10.   I got hooked by the 6.5 Grendel and now I have a hankering to play with a 6 MM Grendel.    Building AR-15's is definitely a sickness whether 5.56/223, 22 rimfire, 6.5 Grendel or other cartridge.

I got into the Grendel game close to 8 years ago. Maybe 10. Either way I was looking for a do it all rifle and it was the closest to fit the bill. Hunt, target, self defense, long range, all with minimal recoil.  After time and experience with it, that belief hasn’t changed for me. My Dad (63) thought it was dumb. I gave him my 16 inch AR and after he hammered 26 hogs with it in a year and half, let’s just say he is fan now too.

As one who shoots a lot of cheap steel 7.62x39 & 5.45x39 thru ARs the better ballistics of Wolf steel 6.5 Grendel at just over 30 cents/round was too tempting to pass on. I’d looked at getting into .308 which is also cheap, versatile and easy to find but just wasn’t interested in the AR10 platform.

PSA has also dropped hints of a 6.5 Grendel AK in the future.

Maybe.

I dont hunt but really think that of all the newer calibers, 300bo,6.8,224 val, 6.5g makes the mk ost sense

6.5g has range, energy, cheap plinking ammo.

6.8 doesn't have the range, or cheap plinking ammo

300bo, 308 pricing 7.62x39mm performance. Subsonic is cool, but subsonic 9mm fills the same role for a fraction of the price per round.

224, kind of relies on a long barrel when modern trends are towards shorter barrels.

I think that if wolf made a steel case 300bo i would be adopt the caliber.

All of the calibers I mention are good rounds,  just 6.5g makes the most sense for me.

It’s is in my case...built a 6.5G to deer hunt only.

#metoo

The only advantage 6.5 G has over 6.8SPC is at distance, target shooting.
After about 400 yards, both are below the rule of thumb of 800 ftlbs of energy for deer.
So, OP's logic is faulty.

I completely agree with LRRPF52 and have echoed the same sentiments almost weekly for at least 13-14 years. I too have always felt that popularity of the Grendel was due to its versatility. One cannot argue with the facts.....mild recoil, excellent accuracy, solid terminal performance and long range capability. There are other choices, but the Grendel stands on its own as the the best intermediate cartridge utilizing the confines of the AR magazine.

It is not all about the BC craze....the Grendel is just a very balanced cartridge. Period.

All that being said, it is an excellent cartridge for whitetail and hogs. Everywhere we went Bill told interested folks that it was designed as a whitetail deer cartridge. When I first saw it really tested at Blackwater in 2003 or so, I was very impressed. An AR shooting like that? Wow. I initially saw the performance on paper and at distance, but then I got it off the range and into the woods where I was really sold.

Are Grendel sales are being driven by hunters? I am not sure about that, but I am sure that majority that I have chambered have been used for hunting. Regardless, I am just glad that it is as popular as it is.

I cannot tell you the number of deer that my family and customers have taken using the Grendel, but there have been many and they are generally one shot kills. We have taken two deer this year with it and I got a text last week from a customer showing a deer killed at 510 yards.

-Len

I built 2 ar15s specifically for long range paper punching.  The other 20 were made specifically for hunting.  The only reason I don't want to carry the long range ar's is they weigh 14lbs.

I have built 6 grendels from 10.5-24inches.  They are my go to when going into the field.

The only reason I got into 6.5 Grendel was that I was looking for a more capable long-distance cartridge in the AR15, so I wouldn't have to lug around an LR-308 or LR-260 beast at any of the Sniper competitions I was regularly competing in, because they involved a lot of movement from stage to stage, as well as land nav stages.  A SOTIC Instructor buddy of mine who was an early Grendel adopter said his Grendel was one of his most accurate rifles, and he really loved the cartridge, so that always stuck out to me as I watched the debate back and forth between 6.8 and 6.5 Grendel.  I was originally very interested in 6.8 SPC, even designed some new non AR15-based rifles around it.



I was thinking I could be a special snowflake and get an 18-20" Grendel to shoot as fast as a 24" with hand loads, which would give me the best of both worlds (reach and lightweight rifle).

I was never originally interested in it as a hunting rifle, just wanted a lightweight LR AR15 for those types of matches.

I didn't get the 18" barrel/bolt combo I wanted because I wasn't fast enough to check out, so I ended up with a 16".  My initial impressions of it were very lackluster with my first hand loads using the 123gr Scenar and Vihatvuori N something or other.  We're talking 2100-2200fps territory, which kinda made me feel like it was a bunch of hype and that the 16" barrel claims were possibly true...this thing is a dud.  (I hadn't fully appreciated how important BC was at the time, and was still chasing speed.)



At the time, there was a lot of hype about how much faster 6.8 SPC was from 16" barrels than Grendel, and that Grendel suffered so much from the 16" barrel that it wasn't really worth it.

I found the Grendel forum, and saw they had a lot of load data from guys who had been loading since the 1950s in some cases, so I loaded up some 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tips with 8208XBR, and found that it got the same speeds as the 6.8 without even reaching Hodgdon's max load.  I got 2675fps with that combo, .4gr under max.



I then compared the speeds I was getting with factory Hornady 123gr A-MAX to 120gr SST in the 6.8, and saw that it overtook the 20fps mv advantage within 25yds for the same reason it overtakes the 7.62x39...BC.  It just doesn't slow down as fast.

I was primarily shooting .260 Rem at the time for all my long range stuff, and would let my nephews shoot the little 16" Grendel on closer range steel (300-600yds).  I noticed how easy it was for them to flatten steel poppers and make hits on sils 1st-round with me spotting for them, but kinda looked at it as an experimental thing for me then.  Once I stretched the Grendel out well past what I thought it was capable of, I realized that my days with .308 were pretty much over.  Some guys challenged me to hit a 1200yd target one day after shooting with my BIL and nephew, and I'll be tickled if it didn't hit right off the lower left edge of TGT 1st-round with my elevation maxed out.  I said to myself, "I need to get a 20 MOA base for this and play with it some more at distance."

We did a Lilja barrel group buy after that, and I got my 18" like I originally wanted, which has been a rifleman's dream to shoot with since then.







When we did the first 6.5 Grendel Handbook, we included some relevant discussions and data about using it in a hunting application, so as people ordered Volume I, we got a ton of requests for data specific to hunting.  That motivated us to do a lot of testing with various bullets to show actual expansion threshold and behavior across a wide velocity spectrum, so people could know where their hunting bullets would likely stop expanding depending on what distances were involved.



It has been very interesting to see so many hunters out there take advantage of the capabilities of the AR15 with this cartridge, especially the types of game that are regularly harvested, and how many hunters are using 12" - 18" barrels.

You really do get a little package that does several things very well:

* Hunting
* HD
* Truck/Car gun
* Long Range

I’m curious what is faulty about his logic?  You throw a range of 400 yards out but that’s not really the point of the entire thread.  Just as an FYI, ballistics calculators give me 800ft/lbs to about 440 yards out of my 14.5” 6.5G barrel.  So it looks like your numbers are flawed a bit as well...?????

My next Ar build will be 6.5 Grendel from LaRue.

Grendel Sales are driven because it's currently the most versital variant cartridge offered. Its does everything quite well and very efficiently. With the wolf stuff for blasting you can burn through Grendel almost as cheap as 7.62x39... yet have something with some serious ass behind it for an AR15 platform rifle.

If I'm not mistaken folks are even getting Grendels to function with subs lately?? Certainly cool if nothing else.

There are quite a few practical rifle shooters using the Grendel too.  When the targets start getting to ranges around 600-850 yards, most 5.56 loads just don't buck wind nearly as well, plus with the Grendel, plate impact is much more noticeable.

As someone who shoots a ton of both, no, just no

My only reason to consider building a 6.5G is as a hunting weapon.

I know what you are implying, but honestly for what i use subsonic for, shooting paper and steel at the range or mountains, subsonic 300 does not offer me any over subsonic 9mm.

If i was hunting or had to dispatch vermin without make much noise absolutely, I think 300 would be higher on my list.

Then you should consider a different cartridge, according to the arguments presented in this thread. Why go with the Great Compromise if you have a specific purpose in mind?

-Stooxie

I bought a 6.5 G Vepr because I think they're cool.

The Grendel is versatile.  It does hunting and long distance target shooting reasonably well.  If you only have one AR, 6.5G would be a good choice.
However, it is not the best at anything.  6.8SPC is better for short-range hunting.  .224 Valkrye is better at long distance targets.  Both of those use the same bolt and mags.

I started using an AR in 7.62x39 a few years ago.  Put a 3x9x40 Leupold on it and it works great for deer.  Just picked up some Fusion ammo this year for it and it shot just under 2 inch groups.

6.5 Grendel exceeds the 6.8 at close range hunting, especially looking at hunting ammo selection available and the vast performance advantages that come with several of the loads.  You're looking at pushing similar weight projectiles with not much difference in mv, but a BC difference normally in the .3xx -.400 vs .420 to .563 region, and lower expansion floors for some of the 6.5s.

.224 Valkyrie suffers accuracy-wise in the AR15 because you're using a very tiny, long, narrow bullet (90gr SMK) in a gas gun with a very thin jacket that doesn't play well with feeding in the AR15 when it comes to maintaining projectile alignment and jacket consistency.  When you see companies like JP having a hard time getting them to shoot, you know something is wrong, and they tried everything they know about making a gas gun shoot well.  It works great in a bolt gun, and Sniper's Hide posted a video taking them both out to ELR recently.  They showed the consistency of the bolt gun, but downplayed the results with the gas gun.

6mm AR is the long range cartridge to beat currently that fits in the AR15, but nobody makes factory ammo for it that I'm aware of.  Great for coyote hunting as well, and will certainly kill medium game reliably up to a certain chest thickness and distance.  It needs to be taken to SAAMI by someone that knows what they're doing who is positioned to benefit from it and has the capacity to produce it.

Currently, the 6.5 Grendel is the hunting, target, affordable high volume, General Purpose cartridge to beat.  There really has never been anything like it available before considering the overall form factor of the cartridge and how much performance you get from it.

We sell a bunch of Grendels at my shop. Most.all of the sales are hog or deer hunters. We have quite a few young shooters using them. A customer today told me his 6nyear old daughter is using his. Got tons of kids using 6.5 Creedmoor are well. I mount 300+ scopes a year and have several people bring the kids in so I can position the scope properly. Got many 9 and 10 year olds and a handful of younger ones.

Anyway, the majority of my Grendel sales are definitely hunters.