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5d tactical jig issue (Page 2 of 2)
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Link Posted: 1/15/2021 2:38:11 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 5:18:43 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


IIRC it used a 1/4” bit that tapered to 5/16”.
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The Modulus HD Jig uses a straight shank 1/4" end mill.  So does the original Modulus Universal Jig.  The only thing at all special about the bits that Modulus sold back then was that they were the extra long (4") length with a relatively short cutting depth of like 1" instead of the more common 1-1/2" cutting depth.  That was so it could reach all the way to cut the trigger slot and so that the cutting part of the bit would not touch the top plate of the jig even on the most shallow passes.  Those bits are not at all difficult to get though, I've been able to buy them easily off eBay, etc.  A good one is the Kodiak Cutting Tools KCT136475.  The YG1 Alu-Power are supposed to be pretty good too.

Link Posted: 1/15/2021 7:22:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/15/2021 7:22:45 PM EST by PursuitSS]
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 12:40:12 AM EST
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Been too long since I fooled with it,
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I've milled a lot of lowers with mine, including several recently.  I had one of the 1st gen Modulus Universal Jigs that I did a few on before I passed it along to a friend.  It worked OK, but the HD jig was a worthwhile upgrade.  When the 5D jig came out I didn't see enough of a reason to buy one since the HD jig was working well enough.  My only major concern with the HD jig is if I ever wear it out or break it since I don't think parts or support are available anymore.  The obvious solution would have been to just get one of the new 5D/Modulus/80% EZ up until recently when people started reporting issues.  I've been researching alternatives and I think I've got at least one viable one.
Link Posted: 1/16/2021 8:05:28 PM EST
I had my drill bushings go out as well. Not sure if it was getting kicked off to the side and chewing it up, but I replaced them with A6 tool steel that was heat treated to 65 Rockwell and peened, then tempered to around 55 Rockwell. Works much better. I don't drill all the way through either. Drill one side then switch with a hand drill to the other side. Ended up scrapping a Cerro Forge lower because of the safety hole being oblong. Learning curve. All the others I've done have come out fine with patience. One thing I noticed is the profile for the take down pin is too narrow. Cerro does mill the pocket wide enough to accept PSA or Aero uppers, but I had to hand polish clearance on some Olger billet lowers. I might go in with a Dremel to open up the rear shelf area on the plate.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 3:50:38 AM EST
As far as the trigger slot, mine does appear to be a bit bigger than my Brownells lower.
Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

I don’t think it’s that offensive looking or any kind of safety issue. I am very happy with the job my 5D jig did on my lower.
Link Posted: 2/6/2021 12:21:34 PM EST
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Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
That drill bit was OBVIOUSLY way off center! Many early jigs didn’t have bushings at all, just holes in the aluminum.

McMaster Carr offers replacement drill bushings, BUT, no bushing is going to stand up to a drill bit THAT off center!  LINK
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So this happened to me.  How do we go about replacing the drill bushings?
Link Posted: 2/6/2021 1:26:32 PM EST
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Originally Posted By CMV1979:


So this happened to me.  How do we go about replacing the drill bushings?
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Once you get some replacement bushings you need something like a hydraulic press to remove the old ones and press in the new ones.
Link Posted: 2/11/2021 7:13:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/11/2021 7:19:56 PM EST by casktcrw]
Here’s what I figured out I know you guys are going to bash me for posting OP without ever watching one used but… The mill is same dia as slot width. The thru hole is oversized so that at each step, it can act as a pilot hole or whatever for the mill. Then when you get to the final pass - the slot itself - the profile is oversized again to make sure that it cleans up the drilled hole.

The only way to modify this setup to cut correct slot is to Use a different drill bit with a different bushing for the first step - lets say 9/32”. then modify the mill to something just below that, say 1/4”. Then you have to make new dowels at 1/4” except the last set would have to be bigger to shrink down the slot.


I think ill take my chances with a DRO bridgeport, even if the finish wont be as nice. My slot will be perfect, and i can make it any profile i want.

Now if someone will make some kinda setup to hold the lower in a vice where i can get at everything i need to to zero it. Zero on pivot hole with pin, which is covered by these jigs. Then zero centerline from edge with edgefinder. My first attempt i used a cheap jig for holes, but held it in a vice with no jig so i could indicate and zero for DRO - the lower moved on me.
Link Posted: 2/11/2021 7:22:52 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:



The Modulus HD Jig uses a straight shank 1/4" end mill.  So does the original Modulus Universal Jig.  The only thing at all special about the bits that Modulus sold back then was that they were the extra long (4") length with a relatively short cutting depth of like 1" instead of the more common 1-1/2" cutting depth.  That was so it could reach all the way to cut the trigger slot and so that the cutting part of the bit would not touch the top plate of the jig even on the most shallow passes.  Those bits are not at all difficult to get though, I've been able to buy them easily off eBay, etc.  A good one is the Kodiak Cutting Tools KCT136475.  The YG1 Alu-Power are supposed to be pretty good too.

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Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:


IIRC it used a 1/4” bit that tapered to 5/16”.



The Modulus HD Jig uses a straight shank 1/4" end mill.  So does the original Modulus Universal Jig.  The only thing at all special about the bits that Modulus sold back then was that they were the extra long (4") length with a relatively short cutting depth of like 1" instead of the more common 1-1/2" cutting depth.  That was so it could reach all the way to cut the trigger slot and so that the cutting part of the bit would not touch the top plate of the jig even on the most shallow passes.  Those bits are not at all difficult to get though, I've been able to buy them easily off eBay, etc.  A good one is the Kodiak Cutting Tools KCT136475.  The YG1 Alu-Power are supposed to be pretty good too.



DOES MODULUS HD CUT PROPER SLOT?
Link Posted: 2/11/2021 7:32:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:



I've milled a lot of lowers with mine, including several recently.  I had one of the 1st gen Modulus Universal Jigs that I did a few on before I passed it along to a friend.  It worked OK, but the HD jig was a worthwhile upgrade.  When the 5D jig came out I didn't see enough of a reason to buy one since the HD jig was working well enough.  My only major concern with the HD jig is if I ever wear it out or break it since I don't think parts or support are available anymore.  The obvious solution would have been to just get one of the new 5D/Modulus/80% EZ up until recently when people started reporting issues.  I've been researching alternatives and I think I've got at least one viable one.
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Originally Posted By SoftwareJanitor:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
Been too long since I fooled with it,



I've milled a lot of lowers with mine, including several recently.  I had one of the 1st gen Modulus Universal Jigs that I did a few on before I passed it along to a friend.  It worked OK, but the HD jig was a worthwhile upgrade.  When the 5D jig came out I didn't see enough of a reason to buy one since the HD jig was working well enough.  My only major concern with the HD jig is if I ever wear it out or break it since I don't think parts or support are available anymore.  The obvious solution would have been to just get one of the new 5D/Modulus/80% EZ up until recently when people started reporting issues.  I've been researching alternatives and I think I've got at least one viable one.



Well what is this viable alternative?
Link Posted: 2/11/2021 7:39:21 PM EST
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Originally Posted By rw3045:

Same issue with mine.  Machined a lower and put it together, the safety selector is crooked.  Looks like the hole is drilled too far back.  Bushings are oval.  This is the first time I used it and I used the bits included.  Received it about a month ago.  
https://i.imgur.com/aiNH77n.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/ddkYncW.jpg?1
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Originally Posted By rw3045:
Originally Posted By troutie:
Originally Posted By hollywood63:
Anyone have drill guides do this?  Obviously they are not hardened like they claim.

[url]https://i.pixxxels.cc/MK7sfThJ/20201128-142008.jpg[url]

[url]https://i.pixxxels.cc/nhn34xJj/20201128-142019.jpg[url]

[url]https://i.pixxxels.cc/Bv6NzCtJ/20201128-142234.jpg[url]


When did you get your jig?

I received mine two weeks ago, went to try it out tonight and had a similar issue.

Same issue with mine.  Machined a lower and put it together, the safety selector is crooked.  Looks like the hole is drilled too far back.  Bushings are oval.  This is the first time I used it and I used the bits included.  Received it about a month ago.  
https://i.imgur.com/aiNH77n.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/ddkYncW.jpg?1


The selector seems centered between the stops, maybe this is an issue with detent hole position on the lower itself
Link Posted: 2/11/2021 7:42:31 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/11/2021 7:54:27 PM EST by casktcrw]
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Originally Posted By Wolverine08:


A little off topic but what lower parts kit are you using here if you remember?  It looks like the mag catch is parkerized and I have been looking for some parked mag catches for awhile now.  Almost all of them I find are shiny black or deep black anymore which I don’t like for clones.  It’s hard to find parkerized takedown pins too.

I wish places listed what the coating was so you wouldn’t have to order just one to see before ordering a larger quantity. I prefer parkerized small parts on all builds the grey just looks much nicer to me to offset the black receiver even on modern builds.
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Originally Posted By Wolverine08:
Originally Posted By rw3045:

Same issue with mine.  Machined a lower and put it together, the safety selector is crooked.  Looks like the hole is drilled too far back.  Bushings are oval.  This is the first time I used it and I used the bits included.  Received it about a month ago.  
https://i.imgur.com/aiNH77n.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/ddkYncW.jpg?1


A little off topic but what lower parts kit are you using here if you remember?  It looks like the mag catch is parkerized and I have been looking for some parked mag catches for awhile now.  Almost all of them I find are shiny black or deep black anymore which I don’t like for clones.  It’s hard to find parkerized takedown pins too.

I wish places listed what the coating was so you wouldn’t have to order just one to see before ordering a larger quantity. I prefer parkerized small parts on all builds the grey just looks much nicer to me to offset the black receiver even on modern builds.


AERO uses all parked parts. However they have a funny bolt catch paddle, small with shallow serrations.  Mag release is a bit odd too. They use schmid fcg tho, same as colt minus the c stamp,  and kit is nice overall. Pistol grip is whatever and im almost sure grip screw is shcs.

Schmid promising to start retailing soon, so you will be able to get kits from them. M16parts has parked catch assy. It has funny button, but it’s the same one that FN is putting on their commercial rifles so its not all bad.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 12:41:24 AM EST
I always thought the 3 popular (simmular ) jig mfg,s was china made. 2 of  the 3 partners are china dudes i found out.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 6:25:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2021 7:27:33 AM EST by swOHmatt]
Re: Trigger slot, don’t get so wound up over nothing.  

They need to make a jig people will be willing to pay for and can be used by the average unskilled human.  The cutter’s size was chosen to provide the correct radius at the fire control pocket corners.  To reduce cost and simplify the machining process they use the same cutter to cut the trigger slot.  It is a bit large for that cut, but provides the clearance necessary without requiring another cutter and without your average unskilled human having to drill one pilot hole to a specific depth to cut the fire control pocket and a second pilot hole for the trigger slot cutter.

You will never be able to make anything idiot proof.  They just keep building better idiots.

Look at the bright side, those who overload their handloads and pop primers may now have a way to clear it from under their trigger.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 7:38:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2021 7:39:05 AM EST by casktcrw]
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Originally Posted By swOHmatt:
Re: Trigger slot, don’t get so wound up over nothing.  

They need to make a jig people will be willing to pay for and can be used by the average unskilled human.  The cutter’s size was chosen to provide the correct radius at the fire control pocket corners.  To reduce cost and simplify the machining process they use the same cutter to cut the trigger slot.  It is a bit large for that cut, but provides the clearance necessary without requiring another cutter and without your average unskilled human having to drill one pilot hole to a specific depth to cut the fire control pocket and a second pilot hole for the trigger slot cutter.

You will never be able to make anything idiot proof.  They just keep building better idiots.

Look at the bright side, those who overload their handloads and pop primers may now have a way to clear it from under their trigger.
View Quote


I would expect one would be able to mill a radius just as well with a smaller mill. I’m just not into it, I saw the lowers my friend cut and I think I can do better.
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 8:15:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/12/2021 8:22:49 AM EST by swOHmatt]
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Originally Posted By casktcrw:


I would expect one would be able to mill a radius just as well with a smaller mill. I’m just not into it, I saw the lowers my friend cut and I think I can do better.
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Perhaps your friend is over his head with these jigs.  A man needs to know his limitations.

You missed two important parts of my post, 1. A cost people are willing to bear and 2. Operated by unskilled humans.

You may very well be able to do better, but at what cost?  You mention a Bridgeport and DROs.  I believe that is substantially more money than the cost of these jigs.  How much training must one have to operate the afore mentioned machinery?  Watch a 10 minute YouTube video and you can operate the jig.  Don’t forget you can’t “borrow” time on another person’s machine tool.  That is an ATF no-no.

These jigs provide a low cost option that the unskilled can operate.  Are they perfect? No.  Do you end up with a receiver with an acceptable finish, perhaps even perfect, depending on the operator?  Yes.

What would the jig makers need to do to make the trigger slot the correct size?  1. A second pilot drill bit guide for the smaller diameter bit 2. Another drill bit 3. A stop on the larger drill bit so the fire control pocket pilot hole isn’t too deep and through the receiver and 4. Another, smaller cutter. All this so a perfectly acceptable trigger slot will look like Colts?  Why?  So it will look pretty when you invert the gun while you admire it? Who cares?
Link Posted: 2/12/2021 3:08:51 PM EST
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Originally Posted By swOHmatt:


Perhaps your friend is over his head with these jigs.  A man needs to know his limitations.

You missed two important parts of my post, 1. A cost people are willing to bear and 2. Operated by unskilled humans.

You may very well be able to do better, but at what cost?  You mention a Bridgeport and DROs.  I believe that is substantially more money than the cost of these jigs.  How much training must one have to operate the afore mentioned machinery?  Watch a 10 minute YouTube video and you can operate the jig.  Don’t forget you can’t “borrow” time on another person’s machine tool.  That is an ATF no-no.

These jigs provide a low cost option that the unskilled can operate.  Are they perfect? No.  Do you end up with a receiver with an acceptable finish, perhaps even perfect, depending on the operator?  Yes.

What would the jig makers need to do to make the trigger slot the correct size?  1. A second pilot drill bit guide for the smaller diameter bit 2. Another drill bit 3. A stop on the larger drill bit so the fire control pocket pilot hole isn’t too deep and through the receiver and 4. Another, smaller cutter. All this so a perfectly acceptable trigger slot will look like Colts?  Why?  So it will look pretty when you invert the gun while you admire it? Who cares?
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Originally Posted By swOHmatt:
Originally Posted By casktcrw:


I would expect one would be able to mill a radius just as well with a smaller mill. I’m just not into it, I saw the lowers my friend cut and I think I can do better.


Perhaps your friend is over his head with these jigs.  A man needs to know his limitations.

You missed two important parts of my post, 1. A cost people are willing to bear and 2. Operated by unskilled humans.

You may very well be able to do better, but at what cost?  You mention a Bridgeport and DROs.  I believe that is substantially more money than the cost of these jigs.  How much training must one have to operate the afore mentioned machinery?  Watch a 10 minute YouTube video and you can operate the jig.  Don’t forget you can’t “borrow” time on another person’s machine tool.  That is an ATF no-no.

These jigs provide a low cost option that the unskilled can operate.  Are they perfect? No.  Do you end up with a receiver with an acceptable finish, perhaps even perfect, depending on the operator?  Yes.

What would the jig makers need to do to make the trigger slot the correct size?  1. A second pilot drill bit guide for the smaller diameter bit 2. Another drill bit 3. A stop on the larger drill bit so the fire control pocket pilot hole isn’t too deep and through the receiver and 4. Another, smaller cutter. All this so a perfectly acceptable trigger slot will look like Colts?  Why?  So it will look pretty when you invert the gun while you admire it? Who cares?


He already has a bridgeport with a digital readout. It’s just not as tight as that router.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 9:46:36 PM EST
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Originally Posted By hollywood63:
Anyone have drill guides do this?  Obviously they are not hardened like they claim.

https://i.pixxxels.cc/MK7sfThJ/20201128-142008.jpg

https://i.pixxxels.cc/nhn34xJj/20201128-142019.jpg

https://i.pixxxels.cc/Bv6NzCtJ/20201128-142234.jpg
View Quote
Looks like the jig wasn't level, move the bit up and down to make sure there is no restrictions.

I use a level to start and then plunge with the drill press turned off to make sure the bit moves in and out freely.

Once it's lined up I drill, I have one of the first 5D jigs and none of mine ever looked like that.

Dont have the harden sleeves either.
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 9:47:53 PM EST
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Originally Posted By j3_:
Getting ready to change into someone more comfortable. Name changes coming.
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What the heck are you talking about?
Link Posted: 2/19/2021 11:35:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By FREEFALLE7:
What the heck are you talking about?
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Edited all my old post while back because they said they were going to give the chance to change our name on the site but it didn't happen yet. Just an old edit.
Link Posted: 2/22/2021 9:44:20 PM EST
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Originally Posted By j3_:

Edited all my old post while back because they said they were going to give the chance to change our name on the site but it didn't happen yet. Just an old edit.
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Link Posted: 2/25/2021 9:42:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 2/26/2021 1:18:13 PM EST by ar15inmn]
After drilling a couple of lowers the bushings in mine were showing noticeable wear.

I knew this was an issue and was using quality bits and taking my time but still had some wear and bit slop.

I went ahead and replaced my bushing.  the holes are undersized not at 1/2" so I also had to open the holes very slightly to 1/2".

Pressed in the new bushings and all has been good, I have since done multiple lowers and the bit is just as tight as the day they were pressed in so defiantly worth the time to  upgrade the jig.

I could not find 1 3/8" length hardened guides so I used 1" and 3/8" and this has not been an issue.

If I replace them in the future I now have some 1 1/2" length drill bushings that I will use next time and leave the 1/8 stick out on the out side.
Link Posted: 2/26/2021 1:28:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 9:53:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/27/2021 10:46:26 AM EST by SoftwareJanitor]
Edit -- dupe
Link Posted: 2/27/2021 10:18:03 AM EST
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Originally Posted By giantpune:
The 5d tactical jig comes with 3 different length guide pins.   The short pins help you mill out everything down to the depth of the rear shelf.  The medium pins are used to hog out all the rest of the material.  And the last set, the long pins, are used to cut the trigger slot.

If you screw up and forget to swap in the longest guide pins when you do your final run that cuts the trigger slot, then you will end up with a huge square hole instead of a little slot.

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I believe this.
Link Posted: Yesterday 9:28:28 PM EST
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Originally Posted By casktcrw:



Well what is this viable alternative?
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Sorry I missed your message earlier...

This is cut-n-pasted from another one of my posts.



There are some other options to convert some drill press jigs for use with a router, but they are a little more DIY because you need to separately source spacers and longer socket cap Allen screws.  I've had success doing this with the UFS jig from here:

https://www.uniquefirearmsolutions.com/UFS-80-Lower-Receiver-Jig-p/ufs_jig_universal.htm

The spacers are 1/2 in. x 1 in. x .257 I.D. Nylon:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-in-x-1-in-x-257-I-D-Nylon-Spacer-815018/204276572

The screws are 1/4-20 x 1-1/2" Socket Head Cap Screws, Allen:

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JGL2YFT

The advantages to this setup is it is readily available to order, less expensive than the others, it will work with just about any 1/4" collett trim router without changing the base, and it will work with standard and inexpensive and readily available 1/4" end mill (extra long, short cutting length) bits like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CARBIDE-ROUTER-BIT-1-4-DIAMETER-1-4-LOC-4-LONG-END-MILL-LOWER-BOTTOM-ALUMINUM/133461241943
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5d tactical jig issue (Page 2 of 2)
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