Anybody done any reloading for the 45 Raptor?
I'm looking to shoot 250-275 grains bullets?
A look through Quickloads gives me 4 decent powders to use Accurate 5744, H110, Lil Gun and Winchester 296.

Anybody have any luck (or problems) with these powders in their 45 Raptor?

Thanks

I've done a fair bit of experimenting with the Raptor, primarily with AA 5744 and H110, and the bullets 240 gr XTP MAG, 250 FTX, and 300 gr XTP MAG.

Overall, velocities weren't quite what I was hoping... they were all in the normal ranges listed on the raptor website, but definitely trended towards the lower end. The 240 XTP MAG is my bullet of choice... better trajectory than the 300 gr. I know that some folks really like the 250 FTX, but I found that I had to seat it so far into the case to hit OAL that the case mouth was almost on the ogive. I didn't have any problems with it, but the 240 XTP MAG just felt like a better fit for the cartridge.

H110 gave better velocities than AA 5744. Only word of caution... as I was working up the ladders, I found that H110 would hit long plateaus in velocity relative to charge weight, and then abruptly jump to a new velocity bracket. These jumps corresponded to jumps in case head expansion. Most spectacularly, after a long plateau near the upper end of book loads for the 240 XTP MAG (but still well under max listed charge), the first round of a new "rung" blew out a primer and the brass showed a strong ejector swipe and signs of incipient case head separation. Maybe I missed warning signs before this happened, but it took me by surprise.

Not sure what your setup is, but with a Liberty barrel I found that I could turn my SLR adjustable gas block almost all the way down and still lock back the BCG on an empty mag.

Really fun cartridge, it makes for some pretty sweet blasting. I haven't taken it hunting yet... maybe this fall. I originally got into the Raptor as a hunting cartridge for Indiana. I spent a good winter doing the build & load development, but then that spring Indiana widened the legal hunting cartridges on private land and ever since I've just used my AR-10(t).

Hope this helps...

Thanks for the reply!
I've got a SLR gas block as well.
Before I get to involved here...
I've got a Redding Competition seating die to use. And a Hornady taper die.
When you were done setting your seating depth, did the taper die ever move the seated bullet downward farther into the case?
At what point do I stop tightening the tapering die to get the "correct" taper crimp?  The Hornady instructions are fairly vague...
Is the setting of the tapering die as crucial as what I've read?
In other words, once I get a powder load/velocity figured out, the second step is to figure out the setting on the tapering die, since it is supposed to greatly effect accuracy...
Did you notice big swings in accuracy with your tapering die adjustments?

Thanks

Originally, I did have issues of not enough neck tension to hold the bullet while crimping. I experimented and found that I can seat bullets with hardly any belling of the case mouth after a re-size. In new brass, I don't need to bell the case mouths at all. This solved further seating the bullet while crimping.

I found the Hornady instructions to result in wayyy too much crimp, at least for my taste. I'm following the developer's advice on the 45 Raptor website about using hardly any taper crimp, basically just enough to remove whatever bell I put on the case. To set crimp level, this is what I did:

-Seat a bullet into unprimed new case without flaring case mouth.
-Put case into shell holder and raise ram to max height.
-Screw in crimp die until I just feel contact with the case.
-Lower case out of die body, and incrementally screw in the crimp die and test crimp level until I was happy.

I'm not saying this is the right way to do it, just what I did.

I have not experimented at all with crimp on accuracy. I've been following the developer's advice on the 45 Raptor website to put the minimum amount of crimp needed to remove any bell of the case mouth. I put just a tiny tiny tiny bit of crimp on beyond straight.... I feel it in the press handle but it's hard to visually see the change. It might not make any difference on holding the bullet, but it makes me feel good to have a slight hold on the bullet. I've made up 10 dummy rounds and have not had any issues of setback while cycling. I've periodically checked chambered live rounds before firing and have not found any setback either.

Good timing making this thread! I haven't played much with this rifle the last 6 months or so, but I'd been thinking about it and this thread was the push I needed to take it out of the safe. I'm planning to do some more testing with AA 5744 this weekend. When I looked back at my notes to answer your original post, I was surprised to see how much smaller the E.S. was for AA5744 than H110... below 20 fps for AA5744 and 60+ fps for H110. I think in my original hunt for velocity I overlooked that aspect.

Happy shooting!

I'll keep an eye on the ES's with the various powders.
One of the best things about Quickloads is that it tells you % of case fill with various powders.
I've heard that pistol powders are fairly picky when it comes to compressing the powder (unlike using RL33 in my 338 Edge, which isn't  haooy unless the RL33 starts to crunch when loaded...)
While using Quickload and trying to keep all parameters equal except the powder, Accurate 5744 stays within 59 fps of H110, but uses 3 grains less of powder...that's because the kernels of 5744 are larger and take up more volume that the H110.
Quickloads says they are both right at 100% fill, but 5744 has 3 grains less powder in the case...

So I'll keep tabs on the pressure and velocities...

Thanks for the input man!

No the kernel size doesn't make it give higher velocities.   The burn is faster on the H110 and that  is why it uses less.  Kernel size has little to do with gas you get for XXX weight. It is all based on the mixture/composition of the powder and any coatings that may be applied to change the burn rate.  Look at the Burn Rate Chart on Hodgdon or Western Powder for a good visual.

Greg

My bad...I think that came out wrong...

What I was getting at was this...

On QL when both 5744 and H110 reach 100% fill, 5744 has ~ 3 less grains than H110 does.

And I don't want to compress pistol powders, so even though the 5744 has about 1.2 Kpsi to go before it maxes out at 54,969 psi in the prospective loads I entered into QL, I don't to keep adding powder to the case and compress the powder.

Update...
I've shot around 40 rounds through the new X-Caliber 24" 45 Raptor barrel.

accuracy has been 1" to 1 1/2" at 100 yards

Shooting a 275 grain bullet @ 2400 fps +

The trim length for the brass in 1.790"

39 of the fired pieces of brass are 1.760" to 1.780" in length

Meaning the brass did not stretch, it shortened by .010" to .030"

Since the barrel in 24" long, and X-Caliber would not put a rifle length gas system on this barrel, (it's a mid-length gas system) am I getting blow back on the brass that is burning/melting off the .010" to .030" of brass?

The brass comes out black and sooty...

Any ideas?

Thanks

ETA: And I cannot figure out how to upload pics from my phone...

Brass is shrinking in OAL as it’s expanding in diameter. Once full length resize it will likely be longer.

Could you put an adjustable gas block on the barrel to limit the amount of gas coming back into the action and causing it to open while the pressure is still high enough to push burning powder back into the chamber?

Thanks man!

Ya, I've got an SLR on it.  I tried shooting it with the SLR completely closed off after I posted the problem above...same problem... brass shortened up .010" to .030"
Using W296 pistol powder in varying weights really causes you to adjust the SLR in and out...but after reading your reply I can breath a little easier knowing I'm not smoking all of my brass on the first firing

The gun cycles great with max loads, and the accuracy and velocity is pretty good for the size of the bullets... 275 grain @ 2400-2500 fps

I get sooty brass from just about every firearm I shoot suppressed due to the increased back pressure, even with an adjustable gas block.

If you had the gas turned all the way off and you’re still getting blow by in the chamber, you could try a heavier buffer to increase the chances of keeping the action closed.

Never messed with this cartridge myself, but it sounds like you’re load development ladders are taking you across a broad spectrum of pressures and leaving the GB shut off for load dev might not be a terrible idea.

Once you find your load, start increasing the gas coming back to the action until it just LRBHO and to a hair more. Still may end up with sooty cases, which the heavier buffer might help with, but I think those are about the only options you have at your disposal. I try to avoid heavier recoil springs as springs do wear over time and leaving all my ARs with the same standard spring makes it easy to just swap uppers and buffers if I need to.

At least that’s how I’ve usually done load dev with an adjustable gas block....

What buffer weight and spring would you recommend for a 275 grain bullet @ @2400 fps
24" barrel with a mid-length gas system,  LR 308  7" buffer tube

I tried to get a rear coil spring out of my Chevy into the buffer tube....it won't fit

Not directly related...but here’s the raptor’s bigger brother... the .510 SDM. Feeds out of an AR-10 large frame AR.

Attached File

Never messed with anything AR10 beyond my 12.5" .308 upper, so I have no idea.

If you've settled on a load, maybe just keep swapping heavier buffers or stiffer springs in until you get less soot on the brass. You may get failures to extract or eject as you go this route, so adjusting the gas will come into play as well.

It's all a balancing act between the amount of gas being sent back to operate the action and the buffer/spring combo keeping the action closed for a few milliseconds.

Ok, got a 5.5 oz SCS style buffer.
It helped out quite a bit, but the brass is still a little sooty...
I just ordered a 10 oz heavy rifle buffer. So I'll try that next...

In regards to the 24" barrel with the mid length gas system (that is the longest gas system they would put in the barrel)

Am I better off plugging the mid length gas port and having a rifle length port drilled in the barrel?

This is what I wanted when the barrel was made, but X-Caliber wouldn't do it....

With the 24" barrel and a mid-length gas system, is it safe to assume I will have always problems, with that much barrel after the mid length gas port?

Thanks

Anyone load up some 160's or 180's yet?  I've been putting off this build for a while.  I'm now gathering parts for a 450bm build.  Straight wall only for Ohio deer hunting so these two have my interest.

Hmm. I thought the raptor was faster than that? I'm hand loading my 450bm with a 275gr Barnes bullet to 2350fps using h110 with no pressure signs and excellent accuracy. Standard ar15 build with an 18in tromix barrel

I've loaded a bunch of the 180gr xtp mag bullets into my 450bm. Not the best accuracy. And because of the low BC of those the 275gr Barnes shoot flatter. And I've also been using mine for the Ohio seasons, hard to beat the 450bm for that

How many grains of H110?

I'd have to look but I think 42grs. My velocities really stated to go up when I added a stab crimp in addition to the taper crimp I was doing. Also noticed increased velocity and accuracy when I switched to a rem 7.5 primer instead of the cci 450 I was using.

I thought about getting into this cartridge, but am on the fence as of right now. Can the 45 Raptor use .308 / 7.62x51 brass, or are you restricted to 45 Raptor brass from Starline?

I'm just using the Starline Brass.
It's worked pretty good so far.
Not a whole lot of prep, and they weren't beat up when I received them
As for using .308 brass...I dunno...

Any of you 450 Bushmaster guys having luck with H110 Powder or any other powders?
W296 has been the most consistant so far for my 45 Raptor, with 275 grain bullets

Using Quickloads, we are kind of painted in a corner with the 450 BM and 45 Raptor when using the 250 to 300 grain bullets, when it comes to powder variability...

I use h110 in my 450bm any time I use bullets over 250grs. Anything under that and I use Lil'gun. Both are extremely good powders

The best powder I've used so far is, Alliant 300 MP
Consistant velocities cold and warm barrel..
Highest velocity with the least amount of apparent primer damage

Is Wiki correct that you can actually run this out of a S&W .460 revolver?

Don't have a bushmaster but do have a 458.  I worked up loads for all my rounds with h110, 300, 325 and 405gns.

Either IMR or H-4227 is another one that works well, although not capable of the velocity of H110/W296, it works well with cast bullets which is What I'm exploring.

It is a rimless .460 S&W Magnum so why not ?

I remember seeing a company a few years ago that was doing conversions for 460 revolvers to take moon clips, so you could run 45 Raptor.